Why do we (consumers/dealers) negotiate?

[J._McD]

In another thread the question was raised, why does this industry “negotiate” prices.  

(How the spa industry became one where you price dicker.     Fear of the unknown and NOT wanting to pay more than others are the basis of this issue.)

The general consensus was that the consumer initiates this concept when they ask a question like, “can you do any better on price?”, “can you include the extras at no charge?”, “I can get it for less from another dealer?”, “the other dealer was including that?”  And then, the dealer who wants your business contributes to the concept because he does not want the business to walk out the door.

As consumers, do you all try to negotiate the price on anything or everything you shop or is it just hot Tubs.

The reason I ask is, a long time customer comes in ready to change out their 18 year old product that we never sold them, but we have extended our services to them for the past 16 years of handling the manufacturer that has now been taken from us and given to a new player in town.  We still have remaining stock we need to sell and they want what we have, but they pit us against the other dealer for cheaper pricing.  We need to release the unit, they want to buy it, the other dealer would like the sale also, and we graciously gave them a serious and substantial discount because of our relationship over the past 16 years, and they could not make a decision.

My take on it is they want to go to the other dealer to see if he will do better.  And, I would also assume, IF they return, they will expect that deal to be still on the table, to which, I am inclined to say that it is not an acceptable deal to us any longer.  Yes, I am offended that they can not recognize a real deal when they see one.  

Now all of you have shopped and most of you have dickered:
•      Was the deal still on the table when you returned?
•      Did you accept the deal when it was presented?
•      Did you dicker with everyone you shopped knowing you can only buy from one?
•      Did you use it as a bargaining chip at the next dealer?  

[BearBath]

McD,
I did do a bit of negotiating, but it was not for the same spa. I got prices from both dealers and had already made a choice; if I got the one I wanted (HS Grande)at the right price, I was going to go for it, but if I didn't, then the other one was acceptable and I would have gotten beter value.

At the time I was buying, neither one had the spa I wanted at the store. They would have to order it. The HS dealer initially told me that the factory was doing their annual shut down and it would be months before my spa was available. The other guy could get the spa in about a month.

I used the delivery issue to negotiate, so that I was not just negotiating on price. The HS dealer came up with a package price that was high. I responded that with the high price and long delivery, I was less interested, and I went back to the other dealer. The HS dealer called back in a day to say that he had gotten a better delivery date (2 weeks) and he improved the package price and threw in more chemicals and filters as sweeteners. That was enough to seal the deal. I put a deposit down immediately.

I know of few things at this price point (Around $10,000) that are not negotiable in some way. Just the way of the world.

In your case, I too, would have been dismayed that service was not factored in. I hope you get a chance to say that in a diplomatic way. In my case, they both were unknown. The one I bought from has been good on service, so that would affect the next purchase.
BearBath

[vlady]

I only feel like dickering is expected if the prices are not posted - 90% of the tubs I looked at, had no price posted.  In fact, I did not dicker at all when I finally decided which tub I wanted.  I asked the price and that is the price I paid.

• Was the deal still on the table when you returned?  Yes

• Did you accept the deal when it was presented?  No, I was still comparing tubs.

• Did you dicker with everyone you shopped knowing you can only buy from one? No

• Did you use it as a bargaining chip at the next dealer?  No

[Balsam41]

Since I started the now famous thread I would to respond to yours. I think that as great as the information highway has become, it also can have it's drawbacks. Because of forums like this one  we now have the ability ot see what other consumers are paying for there spas. With that I would feel maybe taken if I find where someone else purchased the one I want for less than I did.  The problem for other dealerships is if one of there competitors is pricing there spas at a point where they are actually putting themselves and others that follow out of business.
I personally want a fair price that I can live with. It doesn't have to be the lowest price.

[salesdvl]

I always wondered who was the first person to say "If you buy from me right now, I'll throw in..."  Because that person started a bad trend for both parties.

 "OK Mr. Burger King Mgr, Ron down at the McDonalds says your frying oil isnt filtered with a 100% no by-pass system and his is; AND if I buy from him he will super size me for free AND throw in 6 nuggets.  What are going to do for me" ?

[salesdvl]

I just remembered another one.
A guy I used to work with had a transmission go out on his car a month after the warranty ran out.  He went to the dealer and tried to get it fixed for free but they wouldnt.  So he called the manufacturer and stated his case... eventually he got a high enough manager that offered to cover 25% of the repair costs.  He wanted more so he complained more and they upped the offer to 50%.  Finally one more call he figured would get the whole thing paid for but this time the factory guy said:
"It is obvious that we are not going to be able to satisfy you 100% so all offers are withdrawn.  You are on your own."

[marks]

When I was shopping for a tub the nebulous pricing on the spas really turned me off.  It is one reason I did not buy a Hot Springs, the dealer did not have the price posted and he only gave me vague generalities on pricing.  The dealer I bought my tub from had the prices posted on all the spas and it was clear that this was the price. I really liked this, maybe if I had gone in knowing that buying a spa was like buying a used car then I would have been ready for the sales tactics.  Price was not a major factor in my purchase so I really liked the straight forward pricing from my dealer.

[Wisoki]

And my guess is, that's the last time that manufacturer is ever going to get any of your friends money, but it does remind me of an old joke...

A husband and wife have been eagerly awaiting the birth of their child.

On the blesed day, much to their dismay when the baby was born it was only a head.

The parents did the best they could to raise and take care of the head, and the head became a fine adult head.

On the heads 21st birthday the father took the head out for it's 1st beer.

After downing the 1st beer the head suddenly sprouted a torso!

Amazed and delighted the father got his SON another beer.

After the second beer the son sprouted arms and legs.

So overcome with joy the father was able to hug and be hugged by his son and they ordered another beer together. They toasted and all by him self the boy lifted the glass with his father and drank his third beer and instantly died.

Saddened the bartender looked up at the father and said...

You should have quit while he was a head.

I just remembered another one.
A guy I used to work with had a transmission go out on his car a month after the warranty ran out.  He went to the dealer and tried to get it fixed for free but they wouldnt.  So he called the manufacturer and stated his case... eventually he got a high enough manager that offered to cover 25% of the repair costs.  He wanted more so he complained more and they upped the offer to 50%.  Finally one more call he figured would get the whole thing paid for but this time the factory guy said:
"It is obvious that we are not going to be able to satisfy you 100% so all offers are withdrawn.  You are on your own."

[RayF-1]

Negotiate? Yes.

But not so much on the tub as on accessories and supplies.

1.  Knew my budget "top-dollar".

2.  Wet tests guided me to several choices.

3.  Determined fair market price from several sources, this forum being one.

4.  Struck my "deal" on the tub, then negotiated for accessories.  (Figured there is more mark-up there.)  Had no problem buying "floor model of last year's umbrella," etc.    

[Vinny]

I typically don't negotiate but I do shop. I will go to many stores or get quotes from a number of contractors to see what prices are. In everything pricing is varied and I do look for the best value, not necessarily the cheapest.

I've done that with my tub, car, furnace, siding ... It costs me time but it doesn't cause hard feelings with the selling individual. If they are in the ballpark as far as features to price - great; if not I keep looking.

My tub and siding weren't the cheapest but the best value IMO. My car and furnace were the cheapest and best value.

[anne]

Now all of you have shopped and most of you have dickered:
•      Was the deal still on the table when you returned?
•      Did you accept the deal when it was presented?
•      Did you dicker with everyone you shopped knowing you can only buy from one?
•      Did you use it as a bargaining chip at the next dealer?  
 

deal still on the table- yes

accept when presented? No, I still had lots of looking to do, and would never make such a big purchase without at least overnight to think about it.

Dicker with everyone? No, until I knew which spa I wanted,  I just kept track of each dealer's offer. Once I decided which one I wanted, I did make a counter offer slightly less than what I had been quoted.

bargaining chip at the next dealer? No. But each spa I was looking at was a different brand, so that would seem an unfair thing to do. If two dealerships for the same brand were in my area, I'd expect their prices to be the same.  

As far as the overall theme of dealers being offended or irritated by people trying to negotiate with them, I'd say you should change your profession if this really bothers you. Whether it is fair or not, big ticket items are going to be viewed this way by consumers. Spas, furnature, home electronics, even houses are sold this way. (Houses do differ, admittedly- sometimes going for MORE than asked, depending on the market) Even if you dont like to bargain, many of your collegues engender this policy. At least 1/2 of the dealers I spoke to indicated that they could "work with me" without me asking for any deals.

There is another aspect to it that came up a month ago or so- some people, because they are so habituated by the way other big-ticket items are sold, HAVE to bargain. They cant bear to know that they did not try to save a little more. It is not that they are trying to abuse the dealer, it is more like a personal achievement.  

I said above that I did give my dealer a counter offer. There were two reasons for this.
1) I had in my own head what I felt was the relative value of that tub compared to the others I had looked at. It was not the least expensive model that I wet tested by far, but I felt I knew where it fell in the spectrum of value, trying to compare apples to oranges. That determiend what I felt I'd be willing to part with to have the tub.
2) I'm guilty of the above need to know that I tried.

FWIW- if I had felt all warm and fuzzy for my dealer, I would have given what he first asked, no bargaining, as I would have known that years of good support were to follow. As it was, I felt that I was buying an item from someone who was going to be of some, but limited help in the future, so I did not feel bad trying to ge the best price I could.

[Steve]

In my experience in this industry I've come to find one thing to be true:

Weaker dealers don't price their tubs while stronger ones do.

Steve

[hottubdan]

In my experience in this industry I've come to find one thing to be true:

Weaker dealers don't price their tubs while stronger ones do.

Steve

I find that to be a gross overgeneralization.  And we price our spas.

[Wisoki]

What do you expect from a rep?  

We have price tags as well, that show MSRP, and OUR price.

I find that to be a gross overgeneralization.  And we price our spas.

[mattNY]

deal still on the table- yes

accept when presented? No, I still had lots of looking to do, and would never make such a big purchase without at least overnight to think about it.

Dicker with everyone? No, until I knew which spa I wanted,  I just kept track of each dealer's offer. Once I decided which one I wanted, I did make a counter offer slightly less than what I had been quoted.

bargaining chip at the next dealer? No. But each spa I was looking at was a different brand, so that would seem an unfair thing to do. If two dealerships for the same brand were in my area, I'd expect their prices to be the same.  

As far as the overall theme of dealers being offended or irritated by people trying to negotiate with them, I'd say you should change your profession if this really bothers you. Whether it is fair or not, big ticket items are going to be viewed this way by consumers. Spas, furnature, home electronics, even houses are sold this way. (Houses do differ, admittedly- sometimes going for MORE than asked, depending on the market) Even if you dont like to bargain, many of your collegues engender this policy. At least 1/2 of the dealers I spoke to indicated that they could "work with me" without me asking for any deals.

There is another aspect to it that came up a month ago or so- some people, because they are so habituated by the way other big-ticket items are sold, HAVE to bargain. They cant bear to know that they did not try to save a little more. It is not that they are trying to abuse the dealer, it is more like a personal achievement.  

I said above that I did give my dealer a counter offer. There were two reasons for this.
1) I had in my own head what I felt was the relative value of that tub compared to the others I had looked at. It was not the least expensive model that I wet tested by far, but I felt I knew where it fell in the spectrum of value, trying to compare apples to oranges. That determiend what I felt I'd be willing to part with to have the tub.
2) I'm guilty of the above need to know that I tried.

FWIW- if I had felt all warm and fuzzy for my dealer, I would have given what he first asked, no bargaining, as I would have known that years of good support were to follow. As it was, I felt that I was buying an item from someone who was going to be of some, but limited help in the future, so I did not feel bad trying to ge the best price I could.

anne's post pretty much sums up my thoughts!  Thanks for saving me some typing!  

On a personal note, I hate negotiating, but I definitely shop around, and by that I mean look at different dealers and see what they have, at what price.  And why wouldn't I?  I've saved thousands of dollars on my home improvement jobs alone by not accepting the first quote I was given.  I realize that some people are very unreasonable, and it must be trying for the dealers here.  In fact, from some of the horror stories that have been posted, I don't think we even realize how bad it is.  I guess my only thought is, put yourself in our shoes (consider however you would deal with buying a large-ticket item that you don't know much about), and then try and be fair in weeding out the normal people just trying to make their dollar go the farthest from the crazy nutcases and 'spend a dollar to save a penny' people.