Full Foam vs. all others...Something to Ponder

[BubbleLuvr]

I found the below article at the following website: http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/hottubs/shells.html


Acrylic backed by ABS plastic; this material on the surface looks much like the acrylic that is backed by fiberglass, but rather than adding a stiffening agent (fiberglass) the surface material is backed by (co-extruded with) a sheet of ABS plastic. ABS plastic is impact resistant and when co-extruded in this fashion rarely comes away from the acrylic surface. (Fiberglass will not stick well to ABS so it's use as a stiffening agent is very low for this material) The down sides to this material can be, that in order to make the vessel sturdy enough to withstand the pressure of the water it contains, most manufacturers will fill the cabinet with foam, which can make the servicing of leaks extremely difficult especially for a technician that does not have much experience with this type of repair. And in many cases spas that are foamed this way will have cabinets that cannot be removed, further compounding the problem with plumbing service. Also if the tub cracks, I have yet to see a way to fix it. If you go with this type of shell make sure it has a long structural warranty. The reason most manufacturers use this material is that it lowers labor costs, with nobody needed in production to fiberglass and as EPA and state regulations on the discharge of air pollutants gets stronger you will start to see fewer manufacturers using the old method of fiber-glassing.

It seems to back-up my intuition with regards to full-foam as more of a shell structural element.  In addition, if you have to dig into the stuff to fix something, you would essentially degrade the structural integrity of the shell laminate, which one may deduce could potentially lead to cracks, bubbles, delamination etc. IMHO.  It would be interesting to know if in fact anyone has experienced those problems after having to dig out the foam to make repairs.  Does anyone know if in fact the full-foam spas such as Sundance and HS have laminate shells containing Acrylic backed by ABS plastic?

[Chris_H]

Hotspring uses ABS plastic.  Sundance uses fiberglass.  How does that help with your “theory?”

[hottubber]

I believe that MOST quality built spas are full foamed. Whether they are ABS or fiberglass backed shouldn't  matter. Don't buy a spa from a dealer that tells you that you need to be concerned if you have a leak. That typically is the responsibilty of the dealer in which you buy from, a spa that is full foamed will leak normally within the warrantee period, you would hope.
With over 8000 spas sold, all of them full foamed, I've had leaking problem with 2 of them. The odds are pretty good that if you select a good quality manufacturer for your spa and a stable dealer for your purchase, the dealer will handle your concerns with leaks if and when they may occur.

[spahappy]

I believe that MOST quality built spas are full foamed. Whether they are ABS or fiberglass backed shouldn't  matter. Don't buy a spa from a dealer that tells you that you need to be concerned if you have a leak. That typically is the responsibilty of the dealer in which you buy from, a spa that is full foamed will leak normally within the warrantee period, you would hope.
With over 8000 spas sold, all of them full foamed, I've had leaking problem with 2 of them. The odds are pretty good that if you select a good quality manufacturer for your spa and a stable dealer for your purchase, the dealer will handle your concerns with leaks if and when they may occur.

Define leaking problems with 2 of them. Do you mean leaking problems due to the shell, or out of 8000 tubs only two have leaked in any way. Just curious.

Spahappy

[hottubber]

The 2 spas that leaked were caused by rodents that got under the cabinet, chewed through the foam and ate through the Kanaflex plumbing. The nice thing here was, the rodent removed some of the high density foam, so it made our job easier for repair.
The spas were about 4 years old at the time, easily accesible and cost to the homeowner minimal. The warrantee did not cover thisa type of repair. Either way, full foamed or not, these critters would get in. I think they were moles

[Steve]

I found the below article at the following website: http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/hottubs/shells.html
 
 
Acrylic backed by ABS plastic; this material on the surface looks much like the acrylic that is backed by fiberglass, but rather than adding a stiffening agent (fiberglass) the surface material is backed by (co-extruded with) a sheet of ABS plastic. ABS plastic is impact resistant and when co-extruded in this fashion rarely comes away from the acrylic surface. (Fiberglass will not stick well to ABS so it's use as a stiffening agent is very low for this material) The down sides to this material can be, that in order to make the vessel sturdy enough to withstand the pressure of the water it contains, most manufacturers will fill the cabinet with foam, which can make the servicing of leaks extremely difficult especially for a technician that does not have much experience with this type of repair. And in many cases spas that are foamed this way will have cabinets that cannot be removed, further compounding the problem with plumbing service. Also if the tub cracks, I have yet to see a way to fix it. If you go with this type of shell make sure it has a long structural warranty. The reason most manufacturers use this material is that it lowers labor costs, with nobody needed in production to fiberglass and as EPA and state regulations on the discharge of air pollutants gets stronger you will start to see fewer manufacturers using the old method of fiber-glassing.

It seems to back-up my intuition with regards to full-foam as more of a shell structural element.  In addition, if you have to dig into the stuff to fix something, you would essentially degrade the structural integrity of the shell laminate, which one may deduce could potentially lead to cracks, bubbles, delamination etc. IMHO.  It would be interesting to know if in fact anyone has experienced those problems after having to dig out the foam to make repairs.  Does anyone know if in fact the full-foam spas such as Sundance and HS have laminate shells containing Acrylic backed by ABS plastic?

Someone wanna pass me that 10 foot pole?

Steve

[stuart]

Someone wanna pass me that 10 foot pole?

Steve

That wouldn't be long enough for me

[Chas]

Other than to generate traffic on web boards, what good is worrying about this?

There are tubs which use FF which work great.

There are tubs which use TP which work great.

Provided we are talking about a well-engineered tub, you are going to get about the same performance.

This should not really be such a big deal.

[im45us]

My 11 Year old Hot Springs tub sitting outside in Massachusetts with temps for the last week from 20 to about 48 degrees lost power to the heater one week ago. When the heater stopped working the water temp was 102 and last night it was 76 degrees.

Thats 26 deg in 7 winter days out side and with an almost 5 year old 2.5 to 3.5 tappered cover.

To me thats why I would never do anything other that full foam.I just don't think partial foam could do that but if I could be proved wrong thats ok.

Thanks Ivan

[Spatech_tuo]

To me thats why I would never do anything other that full foam.I just don't think partial foam could do that but if I could be proved wrong thats ok.

Thanks Ivan

A Thermospane spa COULD do that IF it was well sealed but its the "if" part that keeps me a full foam guy.

[stuart]

Other than to generate traffic on web boards, what good is worrying about this?

There are tubs which use FF which work great.

There are tubs which use TP which work great.

Provided we are talking about a well-engineered tub, you are going to get about the same performance.

This should not really be such a big deal.

amen...