Caspian low-pressure problem-help!!

[jeff1w]

We've only had our Caspian for about one month, but there has always been a problem with low pressure from one of the two pumps.  I've noticed that the Caspian has three suction plates mounted on the inside lower walls, and one of the three gets no suction when that pump is on by itself.  There is also no change in pressure when adjusting the comfort valve from high to low, and then  back to high again.  Could that be what's causing the pressure to be so low?  The service tech has already been out once to check it out and couldn't find anything wrong with the pump.  He suggested removing once of the suction plate cover and said if that didn't work he would call Watkins.  Any suggestion?  Thanks.

[lynnette]

We have had our Caspian for about 10 weeks. no problems with low pressure of the jets.  The only time water is drawn out of all the 3 floor suction plates is when we have all  the jets on.  We have a white filter over our 3 suction plates,  we did have a problem with  lint getting on the covers.  One time we had no pressure to the back jets and found out the filter was restricting the water going to the pump.  We just shut off all the jets and by hand took lint off filter and then jets were fine. I have been told you don't really need these filters but I called Watkins they told me to leave them on.  Also when we turn down the comfort valve you can feel a big difference of the jets.  Tiger River has a great warranity, if your filters (if there on your Caspian) is not full of lint, then must be a problem with one of your pumps.  We love our Caspian, get the repair tec back out again soon so you can enjoy you new Caspian.  Lynnette

[Drewski]

Hi Jeff:

I'm not familiar with your brand of tub or the set-up, BUT this COULD be an obstruction on the suction side of the pump, an impeller seal problem or a pump motor issue, ASSUMING you had a competent technician who checked for an air injection issue on the output side supplying your jets. Here goes!

Try this to check for an obstruction (assuming you have "clean" water). Remove all filters and leave the filter box open. I'll assume you have a pipe opening for each of the pumps and the circ pump in the filter box.  Leave the tub OFF. Feel the top of each pipe in the filter box with one finger and determine which one still has suction. Likewise with the suction openings in the bottom of the tub. The suction ports still active supply the circ pump. The ones inactive supply the main pumps.

Make certain nothing is loose floating in the tub and your water level is "high." Open the weir door (filter box door) completely.  Turn on both pumps to the maximum settings and be CAREFUL. You should see immediate water flow through the two pipe openings supplying the pumps. The suction into each should be equal.  DON'T put your hand or fingers over either suction pipe in the filter box or even near them. CAREFULLY cover each suction opening in the BOTTOM of the spa and observe changes in the filter box. This may take two people.  Water flow should INCREASE in the filter box. Both openings in the bottom of the tub should “feel” similar in terms of suction pressure. If your hand gets stuck on the bottom opening, shut the tub off.

Switch the diverter valves on each pump circuit completely to one station. Outflow should be VERY high. If one circuit has poor suction AND outflow, there's a problem. Could be an obstruction, pump OR output problem. If suction is poor, try to rule out an obstruction. Shut off the tub.

Poor man's solution to loose obstruction on suction side. Get a wet vac with long hose. Empty vac container completely. Make certain it is away from tub, preferably on GFI circuit. Shut off tub (recommend at pull switch or GFI). Most wet/dry vac hose connections ALMOST exactly fit pipe opening in filter box of spa. Use duct tape on hose end to increase diameter. Take hose end, shove in pipe suction opening that is not working, make tight as possible, hold it, turn wet vac on for 5 SECONDS. Water should suck upward from suction opening in bottom of spa and should catch anything "loose" on supply side of pump circuit. Check vac container for results. Repeat if something “rattles” but doesn’t come out. SOMETIMES, you will be amazed!

Since your tub is new, I'd really question if it’s a loose obstruction. Probably not the case? Could be manufacturing "debris" however? Could also be "glued" obstruction in pipe suction feeds? (BAD)

If no results obvious, ASSUMING the output circuit is set up correctly (i.e., air injection to jets on the weak circuit side is GOOD) you might have a pump impeller issue or bad pump motor shaft connection. Could also be bad pump, but I hope QA would have checked for that one?

I had a scum ball that was sucked into a feed pipe one time when I was cleaning the filters and the "freeze protection" pump cycle came on.  Didn't know it went down there until the wet vac got it out. Those baby rubber ducks can be a problem too. In my case, the symptoms matched yours exactly.

On the other hand, call the spa guy back and let HIM solve it?  

Hope these suggestions help...

Drewski

[caspowner]

We got a Caspian (2004 model) a couple of months ago and had the exact same problem - very low pressure on the second pump.  Just as you describe, adjusting the comfort valve from low to high also had no effect.  We cleaned the main filter as well as the filters around the floor, but nothing helped.  Finally, we had the tech come out and confirm we had a bad pump.  The pump still worked, but it did not have the same pressure as the other pump even though both jet pumps are the same model.  Also, the pump with the low pressure was somewhat louder than the other jet pump.  Took about a month to get the new pump in and installed and everything seems to work great.

[jeff1w]

Caspowner--It sounds like we have the same problem.  The tech came out to check things out a second time, but this time he called Watkins and they told him to order a new pump. I hope that this will solve the prolbem like it did for you.  Must be a recurring problem for Watkins.

[jeff1w]

Drewski,
Thanks for taking the time to offer such a detailed explanation of what might be the problem.  I'm not sure that I understand the entire process you detailed, but the service Tech did replace the pump and the low-pressure prolbem still exists.  He didn't do what I would consider a detailed inspection of anything and the dealer is now getting more involved with trying to resolve this continuing problem.  If it's not the pump, then what can be the issue causing the pressure to drop after 10-15 minutes of use?  Thnaks again.

Jeff

[caspowner]

As a follow-up.  As I stated in a previous post, they replaced my pump and it ran great - for about a month.  The low pressure issue came back and I had to call back the service tech.  The tech did not know what was causing this and had to call for help.  Turns out that the screening over the bottom three suction drains on the bottom were dirty.  The tech removed the covers (which can be done under water) and I cleaned them with a garden hose.  Once replaced, the pressure was very good.  The only issue I have is that the screens did not appear dirty (in fact the tech commented on how clean everything looked) and nowhere in the Caspian manual does it talk about these screens and the fact they need cleaning - even the tech was unaware of this.  As a result, I had to pay a $95 service fee to clean the screening because Watkins will not reimburse warranty unless a part is replaced (even though my orginal pump was confirmed defective).  It's only been a week and things seem to be OK.  Unfortunately, the whole experience turns me off on this industry because I can see that any future problems will be caused by me - the consumer - and I will end up paying in the end.

[Chas]

Unfortunately, the whole experience turns me off on this industry because I can see that any future problems will be caused by me - the consumer - and I will end up paying in the end.

Wow - pretty harsh response. I'm sorry you had problems, but Watkins is very good at taking care of problems. Exctly how much did it cost you to have that pump replaced? It's about a $400 unit - plus labor. You didn't mention any cash changing hands for that.

If your screens were dirty, the warranty certainly will not cover the service call - the same is true for filters, having the water level too low, insuficient voltage, and things like that. This is not something specific to the spa industry - all industries have certain things that owners are expected to know about, or find out about and check before calling in the tech.

Find a local TV repairman, call and ask how often they end up charging a service call to come out and plug in the power cord or the cable.

I read in your earlier posts that you knew about cleaning the screens - why didn't you try this before calling for service? I know you said they looked clean, but obviously that can be deceving. I guess the best news is: you won't overlook cleaning the screens again....

[caspowner]

Just to clarify, the orginal replacement pump was covered under warranty.  I was upset by the second call and the $95 charge for the same issue.  To be fair, I called Watkins after I posted and discussed the problem and they have agreed to work with my dealer to refund my $95.  I realize the industry cannot pay for all calls because regular maintenance should be my responsibility.   But in this case, the intake screens have a screen over them that was causing the issue.  Not being familiar with how the hot-tub works, I was not aware that my second pump only uses the intake screens - not the main filter.  Nowhere in the owners manual does it talk about this nor does it describe how you should clean the screens (you actually have to remove them under water to remove the screens and clean them).  Finally, after talking to them on the phone, they recommended removing the screens because they are used on models that use a diverter and prevent grit from getting into the diverter.  Since my model does not have a diverter, they said it is not needed.  In fact, the customer service rep told me that these screens are causing some pumps to burn up, so she highly recommended removing them.  In the end, I understand they cannot be expected to come out for every issue, and after talking to the customer service rep on the phone, she was very helpful and my opinion has changed.

[Chas]

In the end, I understand they cannot be expected to come out for every issue, and after talking to the customer service rep on the phone, she was very helpful and my opinion has changed.

Cool. I'm glad it worked out for you.

[lynnette]

We also have the Caspian -- which I earlier posted about the white filters over the 3 floor suction plates.  I called customer service because my dealer told me I could take off the filters and Hot Springs customer service told me to leave them on. (They were on when tub was delivered but floor model did not have the white filters on it) When you are talking about taking off the screens, do you mean the white filter on the outside of the 3 suction plates or a screen underneath the grey plastic cap? I am conserned since you were told they could burn up your pumps if they restrict the water.  Thanks,  Lynnette

[caspowner]

I was told to remove the white screening over the intake caps.

[lynnette]

Thanks, I am trying to tell my husband we need to remove the white caps.  He thinks it is extra filtering, which I am sure it is, but I explained we don't need it.  I have told to him what happend to you and it could burn out our pumps if they are restricting the water.  Hopefully we will  remove them today.  Hope you like your Caspian as much as we do.    Lynnette

[jeff1w]

I have had low pressure problem with my new Caspian.  The repair tech couldn't figure it out after 4 service calls.  Watkins will be replacing my spa next week with a new one thanks to my dealer who was very helpful.  Watkins is assuming that there is an obstruction in one of the air lines that is not accessible without tearing the whole thing apart.  

[Drewski]

Hi jeff1w:

Read your update, sorry to hear of continued problems.  Did you attempt the wet vac maneuver?

An airline issue sounds reasonable because it would drastically decease power to the jets. The only other thing it could be is an air leak on the suction side of the pump.  An air void builds slowly from a pinhole size leak or unsealed PVC ring resulting in decreased pump output.

Hope the new one works!

Drewski