Foaming Problem

[Warkovision]

I've had my Vista with the EverFresh system a month and have  a stubborn foaming problem. Everything's been fine up until last Tuesday. We didn't use the tub for a few days. The water was a bit cloudy, and when I turned on the jets last Tuesday, I had major foam. I used some clarifier at one point which seemed to make the foaming worse. I've been checking the water often and everything is seemingly in balance. Chlorine always comes up pretty much non existant even though we shock every other week with it. I don't know if this is because of the ozone/silver ion action of Everfresh. The inbetween weeks we shock with MPS. And we had a tspn of dichlor after use as well. Nothing unusal that we know of has happened. Tried using "foam out" as suggested in the "how much foam is too much" thread. It says not to use more than 1/2 tspn at a time. I must have done this ten times in the last couple of days. How much foam? Well, I'd say after running the jets for 10 minutes, enough to look like a discreet bubble bath. Not mountains, but more than I've experienced in the last three weeks by a long shot. The dealer told me to check calcium hardness. I think it was 120. Should I drain the tub and start over? BTW, I cleaned the filters today and they looked pretty good except for the one that housed the silver ion cartridge. It was quite a bit dirtier. Is that normal?

[rocket]

The one filter will always be a little dirtier because it is dedicated to the circ pump.  no need to drain and start over.  It sounds like you need to shock with MPS (at least 2 oz) and add some dichlor.  

[zeuspaul]

Some foam showed up in my tub and I removed it with a large bowl.  It was on the surface so I dipped the bowl just below the surface and it sucked the foam in by skimming the water surface.  After three removal treatments the foam didn't come back.

[Spa_Tech]

I used some clarifier at one point which seemed to make the foaming worse. I've been checking the water often and everything is seemingly in balance.

I cleaned the filters today and they looked pretty good except for the one that housed the silver ion cartridge. It was quite a bit dirtier. Is that normal?

Water clarifier 9or flocculent) will cause foaming. It's intended use is to flock material into large enough particles to be filtered out, as most filtration media used for spas will only filter down to 8 or 10 microns.

If your spa water is balanced and there is also a balanced calcium hardness level, the problem is probably with detergent in the water. Sources could include soap from your swimwear, shampoo, suntan lotion, or body oil.

It is normal for the filter on the silver ion standpipe to be dirtier than the other filters... this is the filter for your circulation pump and draws water through it constantly.

[bethshar]

I don't think 1 tsp of dichlor each day is enough to keep your water disinfected.  Try using 1 tsp per user.  We put about 3 tsp after use each night and our water is staying clear.  Before, we were getting occasional cloudiness.  Foam is sometimes there - but not bad.

[Constance]

Water clarifier 9or flocculent) will cause foaming.

Interesting!!  I used water clarifier to try to clear up the cloudy water I have.  We have a lot of iron in the water and the dealer recommanded this.  I did get a lot of foam after it.  I thought it was from my filter that I had just cleaned for the first time.  I thought I had rinsed the filter really well but because of the foam i thought it had to be from the filter cleaning.  I'll keep this in mind
Connie

[Drewski]

Hi Warkovision:

I've responded to this type of question a number of times on this forum using what works for me, so I'll repost here in an effort to help you as well. I have a large tub (500 GAL) that gets pretty heavy use on a weekly basis.  The ONLY time I get foamy water is when the water is "dirty." Generally, it gets foamy when a bunch of “dissolved solids” (not the chemical type) get mixed up in the tub water.
 
Before you start worrying about a chemical problem, try this method. First, go to your local Lowes (if you live near one) and buy a product called "Super Clear Clarifier" by AquaEZ (the big BLUE bottle, about $8.00 and it lasts a LONG time, see link below). This product (or another like it) is a highly concentrated “cationic polymer” that will "clump" the CRAP out of the stuff in your tub.  From what I can tell, it’s also pH neutral. Similar products are available at other stores.    
 
Turn the tub on and adjust the diverter valves so that the surface water (and foam) is directed into the filter box through the weir door.  Add 3 to 6 caps of the blue stuff to the water while the tub is running. Don’t be afraid to add more than the instructions say, it won’t work like I indicate unless you use quite a bit. Keep a small bucket of water and a cotton rag handy to wipe out the nasty stuff that will appear in the filter box.

Very shortly, the tub will start to foam. It may even push right out of the top of the tub. Scoop the foam out of the tub if it becomes a problem. The reason why the water is foaming is because it contains dissolved oils that create surface tension and ultimately cause millions of small bubbles to form. The process is similar to shaking up a bottle of Italian salad dressing containing both vinegar and oil. After the tub begins to foam, you will probably see orange/brown/grey "stuff" clumping in the foam and running into your filter. Some of this stuff may also be deposited on the tub walls. GET RID OF IT! Use the wet cotton cloth and wipe it out, followed by rinsing the cloth in the bucket. This “STUFF” is what comes out of people’s skin (sun tan lotion, deodorants, moisturizing agents, dissolved fats, dead skin, dirt, etc., YEAH, I know, that’s GROSS). Keep the tub running for about 30 minutes. If the water is REALLY bad, foam will continue to form.  At some point you might consider adding anti-foam if it gets too bad, but try to avoid this because it defeats our purpose. Also consider closing the air injection valves.  

After the tub runs one cycle, pull the filters and REALLY clean them using a filter cleaning solution and a garden hose. Use the hose on "stream" and REALLY blast the crap out of the filter, especially in the ends of the pleats. Replace the filters and let the tub run an additional cycle. Stop the pumps and let the water settle for about 15 minutes.  At this point, the water should be clear.  If not, repeat the treatment again. Consider doing this every weekend if you use the tub daily.

After you finish "cleaning" the water, re-install the filters and add shock.  I recommend an all-in-one vinyl pool shock treatment that contains an oxidizer, a sanitizer (dichlor), a buffer, a clarifying agent and a flocculent (see "Enhanced Shock" from SpaGuard or “Shock Plus” available at K-Mart stores). I add this product after using my tub and “shock” with a bigger dose on the weekend.  My maintenance dose is about ¾ a shot glass nightly.    

If this method doesn’t keep the water clear, your problem might be chemical in nature.  From what you wrote, it sounds like your base level of sanitation is too low.  Consider doubling or even tripling the amount of dichlor product you are using.  Low levels of sanitation can be tricky when using a "mineral purifier" (I use Nature2), because "extra use" or "no use" over several days can push your equilibrium levels out of whack.  I generally "over-sanitize" in these cases to avoid problems.

PH and calcium levels could also be an issue here, so test and make certain they are within acceptable range.  

I recommend this method of water treatment because I've used it to make “clean” water in less than two hours out of water that looked so BAD you couldn't see the bottom of the tub. Hopefully, it may work for you as well.
 
A product link to the clarifier agent (blue stuff) is http://www.aquaez.com/sub_chemicals.html.  
 
Hope this helps.  Post questions if you have them.

Good Luck!  
 
Drewski  

[Warkovision]

Hey Drewski,
Thanks so much for the repost, I finally got it under control by upping the sanitizer levels, Cleaning the filters, and using a different "foam out" method. My previous method, I was extremely careful to measure out a 1/2 tspn. of "foam out" and did my best to sprinkle it on the most troublesome spot. This was not effective at all after many repetitions with 10 minute intervals with jets running. So I took a chance and just pointed the bottle at the biggest foam and did a quick squeeze (probably 1 tspn or a little more.) This worked much better seemingly. Don't know if it was just the accumulation of treatments or what. Anyhow, water is clear and not foamy anymore. Chemistry appears OK. I'll go to Lowes today and get some of that clarifier for my "kit". Also got my "dirty ducks' from Doc yesterday. Will drop them in too. Thanks again.

[doodoo]

Sometimes a little trial and error works best.  Averages in amounts that you should put in is always a guestimate and based on your tuba dn the use it gets.  Like I shock more often about every 6 days because of the heavy use the tub gets. Can't believe how many friends we had that we never saw until we got our tub.  Hey some had to introduce themeselves to me ( I think the wife knows them LOL)

[windsurfdog]

Warkie,
Try a spritz bottle with a 1/3 to 2/3 mix of defoamer to water.  Spritz foam as needed.  Works for me.....

[tonyp]

I have the same problem with my Envoy with the Everfresh.  With my hard water it took a while to get the Ph down and my calcium is very high.  I've been living with it and using anti-foam when guests come over.  Skimming the foam out also seems to help.  Cleaned my filters (after 1 month) last weekend and it seems to be better.

[cparlf]

Thanks for the repost.  The same process works for me, a three month tub owner.  Trial and error led me to the path of clean water.  One more piece of advice is to hit your dealer (yes I try to support my dealer even though it costs a few dollars more) and get a pool skimmer mesh thing.  It works great for skimming out foam and any other floaters that may land in the tub.

Looking forward to the cold weather and snow.