Need to make a decision this weekend - looking for help

[bud16415]

What had happened was the wood frame of the tub was painted black and the cover was applied before the paint had dried and the panel was glued in place. Some of the painted areas came away from the wood and I could see the quality of the wood used as backers for the decorative outside surface and it looked to be regular cheap plywood and it made me question the grade as the tub is outside and subjected to the weather. It has held up fine for 2 years now so I have no reason to say it won’t last longer without delamination. The framing inside seems to be the same builders grade wood just painted black. Nothing bad but then again nothing spectacular in a top line product. I ran my seal-tight conduit into the tub and was getting ready to terminate the conduit into the “electrical box” I use the term loosely. The box and cover that hold all the brains is the flimsiest box I have ever seen. I had to use some zip ties to stabilize the conduit as the box wasn’t strong enough to support a few feet of the wire and flex conduit and the metal conduit nut I put on backwards as the griper teeth would have just cut thru the box if I tightened it up the right way. I wasn’t that happy to see a termination strip for the #8 wires that was a back stab friction design. I personally when dealing with 50amp of power potential would have liked to see some binding screw termination points. Again I used them and they have worked fine for a couple years now. But it always makes me wonder when one end of a wire is secured in the GFCI disconnect panel with heavy hooks and screw pressure and the other end just slips in and touches a contact. When you view inside the flimsy electrical box and you see all the chips on the circuit board and know the device is outside in a wet environment sharing the area with pumps and hoses and potential moisture issues and replacing the cover required me bending slightly the metal clip that holds the cover on to make the best seal I could get. I had to think spending another $2 on a better designed box wouldn’t have been a bad idea. Again just my opinion as I haven’t had a failure. Another comment I made and again it is quite minor but is an observation was the screws that hold the panels on. I think they are stainless a good thing and the heads looked like they were spray painted to match the tub. It was impossible to use a screwdriver to remove the screws without dinging the paint on the screw heads as the bond between the metal and the paint was not much. There are anodizing processes and such for cosmetic parts that need to match. Picture your kitchen cabinets that have decorative hardware and the screws having shiny scratch marks from being taken off just once.    CONT

[bud16415]

As to the wrist jets we had one blowing harder than the other I didn’t feel like gluing the one back on and draining and drying the tub to do it and the one without the spinner even felt better and more forceful. So I took the other one off and it was glued on as well. Other than they don’t have a chrome ring they work and look ok.

The frog system was another area of overselling the tub as it was said to set it and forget it. It never worked that way for me as the chemicals are depleted the rate of dispensing changes IMO. Somewhat different than a floating application even. I just found it way less accurate than what they claim.   

Some of the logic in the light programmer could be really cleaned up to make it user friendly. Maybe they have with the new released Geneva. 

Another thing I would change on my Geneva is the location of the ozone jet. It is right next to your left leg blowing on your calf. That wouldn’t be a problem but the water temp out of that jet is hotter that the rest of the jets. I suppose it comes right off the heater line where the others have some mixing with tub water, don’t really know. It is a little thing but I could suggest a dozen better locations.   
     
I didn’t bad mouth the product in any way and didn’t use profanity. Never got a letter about the shirt and never expected a gift in the first place or required one. I actually searched quite a bit trying to find another line of direct communication email or such but most things pointed to the user comment page so that is the way I went.

[Hottubguy]

That's a lot read....Too address a few of them. If you turn the big jets too far they will pop out. manual Using a adhesive doesn't seem like a very smart fix. Not sure why they just wouldn't replace them at the factory. Pretty dumb on there part. The manual being in the cabinet is pretty standard. That's where almost all manufacturers put them. That has nothing to do with Caldera but more your dealer for not explaining how the panel comes off. If your dealer took 5 minutes to show you then that wouldn't have been a problem. If your dealer explained to you how the frog system worked then you wouldn't have issues with that either. It's not a set it and forget it system though it does cut down on having to add as many chemicals manually. The frame has changed on all June and beyond 2016 Utopia models. It's a sturdier frame on the new style. There isn't screws on the new Utopia panels so that has also been addressed. Control box and ozone jet I've never heard complaints on them before. The control box is the same if not better then on any other hot tub out there. I actually think the topside is very easy to navigate. Did your dealer ever come out and go over operation of the tub. Seems he does things much differently then my dealership. We deliver Tub. Take all information, like manual out of tub so the electrician has it. Then after electrician is done we go out and go over operation and give like a spa 101 class for the customer. Very in depth review there and glad it has been operating fairly trouble free for the first few years of ownership.

[bud16415]

That's a lot read....Too address a few of them. If you turn the big jets too far they will pop out. manual Using a adhesive doesn't seem like a very smart fix. Not sure why they just wouldn't replace them at the factory. Pretty dumb on there part. The manual being in the cabinet is pretty standard. That's where almost all manufacturers put them. That has nothing to do with Caldera but more your dealer for not explaining how the panel comes off. If your dealer took 5 minutes to show you then that wouldn't have been a problem. If your dealer explained to you how the frog system worked then you wouldn't have issues with that either. It's not a set it and forget it system though it does cut down on having to add as many chemicals manually. The frame has changed on all June and beyond 2016 Utopia models. It's a sturdier frame on the new style. There isn't screws on the new Utopia panels so that has also been addressed. Control box and ozone jet I've never heard complaints on them before. The control box is the same if not better then on any other hot tub out there. I actually think the topside is very easy to navigate. Did your dealer ever come out and go over operation of the tub. Seems he does things much differently then my dealership. We deliver Tub. Take all information, like manual out of tub so the electrician has it. Then after electrician is done we go out and go over operation and give like a spa 101 class for the customer. Very in depth review there and glad it has been operating fairly trouble free for the first few years of ownership.

I intended to do my own install and felt comfortable doing it. There was about a week wait for the tub to be shipped (not in stock) so the dealer gave me the GFCI breaker panel and I added a 50amp breaker ran all the wires and was ready to go when the tub arrived. To my surprise my tub was not delivered by the place I bought it from but by one of their competition. Seems this company subs out the delivery and installation if required and also service in the future to this other business. I was kind of surprised as it was the only place we didn’t shop at as it was a fair distance away.

Getting the panel off shouldn’t have been a problem other than it was painted in place like glue.

I agree having a broken jet glued on with RTV straight from the factory did not shed a good light on perception of quality and I think the reason they didn’t put a new one on was the damage wasn’t to the part that comes off but to the connection in the tub. I was also told that they were an item that frequently came loose so the fix was “belt and suspenders” with using the lock and also the RTV. Whatever the cause I more wanted to explain the problem and the perception it formed about the product. I wasn’t asking for a new tub or my money back. I wasn’t dismayed at all until my review was censored. The correct action is to tell me we are not going to post your review instead we are going to put you in touch with Mr. SoandSo he is our head of quality and he will work with you to both solve your issues and make improvements to our process and product.

I didn’t expect to see a Hoffman enclosure inside the tub holding the electronics but I did expect something more substantial than a vacuum formed piece of 1/32 thick plastic box for terminating a ¾ conduit. 

I understand some kid being paid minimum wage is reading these things and sending out the Tee shirts. But there is no more important thing in business than listening to your customers.

I haven’t looked real close at the new improvements. I will have to do that.

I do know if I was running one of these companies I would be closely watching the web forums to gain insight.     

Thanks for replying and sharing your thoughts.