New Tub+ Well Water= Lessons learned

[Muddytyres]

My new tub was delivered on Thursday. The person filling in for my usual 'guy' set me up with the chemicals and sent me (very happily) on my way. I fixed the pH, alkalinity, and when I got to the metal remover part- no metal removed, she forgot to send it. The dude manning the desk (it was still my 'guy''s day off)  when I called thought it would be fine to go ahead and shock it... Um, nope.

Moral of this story- use the metal removed if you have ANY iron in your tub water before you shock it - or it turns the water turns a really fantastically scary orange color.

Any thoughts on the foam though? the spa is no longer orange, filters are cleaned, and it's foamy. It started foaming after I put the second type of metal remover in the tub. And it seems that the pH and everything is correct?

Still love it. Lesson learned. And my next tub will have a dark interior, not light. I'd still have scrubbed the stains off (with approved pad given by spa guy) but it won't haunt me the same (does that look a little orange right there? scrub scrub.... paranoia....)

[Letran]

Funny you mentioned this scary orange gunk. new tub owner here also

Over the weekend I decided to finally read and follow some of the maintenance items that I should have been doing to maintain the water (it's been a month and a half) so I'm a bit behind on some. I put some PreventII apparently that was suppose to be weekly.
Douzed a couple of SpaShock, swapped the filters etc.

I think I made the mistake of putting Lithium with SpaClear because this morning I just wanted to admire the clarity of my water when I noticed that not only is my water level is considerably lower, I feel like I lost an inch of water. And there is this wonderful scary orange gunk on the side of the tub.

Oh well I said to my wife at least the water is clearer.

I thank goodness that my tubs first winter is a non-winter in Ontario. If it is -20 out there I wouldn't even check the water. People coming over for Family Day

[The Wizard of Spas]

Copper and Iron are the metals that will cause staining, particularly with well water.  Use citric acid (lemon, lime, or orange wedge, a vitamin C tablet, etc) to confirm the build up is a metal-based stain.  If so, these two things are very important:

pH/Alkalinity level:  If your pH and/or alk is off, (for instance- low levels cause metals to deposit), the metal remover may not work at its peak effectiveness.  Thus, its better to have your water totally balanced prior to treating metals.  Sometimes shocking or adding a lot of sanitizer can manipulate your pH levels, further agitating the situation.

Sanitzier levels:  It is typically better to have lower levels of sanitizers in your water when treating metals, as the sanitizer can manipulate the pH or can impede the ability of the metal remover to complete its task.

Metal removers are usually sequestering agents.  Thus- They collect the metals and put them into the filters where they can be removed when you clean your filters.  Citric acids remove the stains/deposits (some are orange, but others can merely be a "sandpaper" feeling on your shell) but that is only a superficial remedy.  A sequestering agent eliminates the issue until new water is added.

Foaming could be from chemicals who may have trace amounts of metals in them, or from something on your body/clothes.  But sometimes when many things are happening in your water all at once, foaming can occur.  When balancing your water, allow plenty of time, several hours at least, between adjustments. 

To lower pH/Alkalinity (which is typical in well water) add your reducer and allow the water to be calm.  Do not agitate the water by turning on the jets.  Calm water allows for the reducing agent to get better results, and faster.  This does not mean that turning on the jets will negate the reduction process.  It just wont work as well.  I usually have my customers apply dry pH reducer to the empty tub (The amount needed varies per customer) and then fill the tub.  Thus, by the time the tub is full the pH and alkalinity levels are reduced to the correct level. 

I am sure others can expand on this further but I just wanted to contribute to this site.  This is my first post and I dont even know how to do my profile.  But I have a lot of knowledge to share so I hope I was able to help.

Good luck moving forward.

[Topline Mike]

To lower pH/Alkalinity (which is typical in well water) add your reducer and allow the water to be calm.  Do not agitate the water by turning on the jets.  Calm water allows for the reducing agent to get better results, and faster.  This does not mean that turning on the jets will negate the reduction process.  It just wont work as well.  I usually have my customers apply dry pH reducer to the empty tub (The amount needed varies per customer) and then fill the tub.  Thus, by the time the tub is full the pH and alkalinity levels are reduced to the correct level. 

I am sure others can expand on this further but I just wanted to contribute to this site.  This is my first post and I dont even know how to do my profile.  But I have a lot of knowledge to share so I hope I was able to help.

Good luck moving forward.

This paragraph is 100% wrong.  After you add the pH down, or acid, you want to turn on the jets and circulate for a good 20 minutes.  Aeration is the key here.

I'm on well water, and when I refill my tub, the water is just plain ugly.  I don't use any special metal sequestering agent or anything of the sort, just run the jets for several cycles, and eventually all the rust ends up in the filters.  Hose off, and you're done.  Try it once, and see what happens.  Those spa stores love to sell all those pretty bottles of magic potion that are really not needed. 

Picture of my filter after 6 to 8 hours of water circulation. 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

To lower pH/Alkalinity (which is typical in well water) add your reducer and allow the water to be calm.  Do not agitate the water by turning on the jets.  Calm water allows for the reducing agent to get better results, and faster.  This does not mean that turning on the jets will negate the reduction process.  It just wont work as well.  I usually have my customers apply dry pH reducer to the empty tub (The amount needed varies per customer) and then fill the tub.  Thus, by the time the tub is full the pH and alkalinity levels are reduced to the correct level. 

I am sure others can expand on this further but I just wanted to contribute to this site.  This is my first post and I dont even know how to do my profile.  But I have a lot of knowledge to share so I hope I was able to help.

Good luck moving forward.

This paragraph is 100% wrong.  After you add the pH down, or acid, you want to turn on the jets and circulate for a good 20 minutes.  Aeration is the key here.

I'm on well water, and when I refill my tub, the water is just plain ugly.  I don't use any special metal sequestering agent or anything of the sort, just run the jets for several cycles, and eventually all the rust ends up in the filters.  Hose off, and you're done.  Try it once, and see what happens.  Those spa stores love to sell all those pretty bottles of magic potion that are really not needed. 

Picture of my filter after 6 to 8 hours of water circulation. 

every situation is different, I do agree there is tons of different "snake oil" being sold in this industry but imho the "basic" chemicals (metal gon, chlorine/bromine, shock, pH reducer/increaser, filter clean) definitely do not fall into the "snake oil" category and can definitely speed up the startup process especially when dealing with terrible well water...technically speaking if you can simply run a couple filter cycles and have that water clear in a day then you are definitely on the "not that bad" end of the spectrum as far as well water is concerned. I have some customers where it takes 2-3 days even with Metal Gon...so again every situation is different

[The Wizard of Spas]

I must not have articulated my point well enough.  Having your pH and alkalinity balanced goes a long way to sequestering metals.  The metals will be in your spa as it is in high content from well water.  To have the best possible conditions for your sequestering agents to work at maximum effectiveness, it would behoove you to have your pH and alkalinity balanced prior to adding whatever you use to remove/sequester metals.  I am not pushing a product, but rather the process.   

In my experience with well water I have found that the most effective way to lower your pH and alkalinity is to add your reducing agent (whether it be muriatic acid or sodium bisulfate) to calm water.  Again, as noted in my previous post, if you were to turn your pumps on and agitate  the water, you will get results.  However, I have found that by having the water calm and still, I've seen better (and faster) results when lowering your pH and/or alkalinity in inground or above ground pools and swim spas and/or hot tubs. 

Thus, when you are fresh filling the tub, a way to expedite the process is to toss in (lets say 1# of sodium bisulfate, as an arbitrary number) your reducing agent to the empty footwell while your tub is filling.  The filling process is calm enough that when you do turn your tub on and the water turns over after a short spell, your pH/alkalinity will be reduced in its maximum ability.

Again- I understand that when adding chemicals to your spa its always good to have your water moving/pumps on.  I am only speaking in this specific instance.

Does this better convey my message?  Sorry if it is confusing.  This was something I was taught by the head chemist at a major pool/spa chemical manufacturer and I just wanted to pass it along to the forum.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

I must not have articulated my point well enough.  Having your pH and alkalinity balanced goes a long way to sequestering metals.  The metals will be in your spa as it is in high content from well water.  To have the best possible conditions for your sequestering agents to work at maximum effectiveness, it would behoove you to have your pH and alkalinity balanced prior to adding whatever you use to remove/sequester metals.  I am not pushing a product, but rather the process.   

In my experience with well water I have found that the most effective way to lower your pH and alkalinity is to add your reducing agent (whether it be muriatic acid or sodium bisulfate) to calm water.  Again, as noted in my previous post, if you were to turn your pumps on and agitate  the water, you will get results.  However, I have found that by having the water calm and still, I've seen better (and faster) results when lowering your pH and/or alkalinity in inground or above ground pools and swim spas and/or hot tubs. 

Thus, when you are fresh filling the tub, a way to expedite the process is to toss in (lets say 1# of sodium bisulfate, as an arbitrary number) your reducing agent to the empty footwell while your tub is filling.  The filling process is calm enough that when you do turn your tub on and the water turns over after a short spell, your pH/alkalinity will be reduced in its maximum ability.

Again- I understand that when adding chemicals to your spa its always good to have your water moving/pumps on.  I am only speaking in this specific instance.

Does this better convey my message?  Sorry if it is confusing.  This was something I was taught by the head chemist at a major pool/spa chemical manufacturer and I just wanted to pass it along to the forum.

sometimes Jets are needed depending on how your pH & Alk. test out.....if you have a very high Alk. level but a "normal" pH sometimes it is necessary to use aeration (jets running) to maintain pH stability while at the same time lowering your Alk. with the pH reducer product (sodium bisulfate or liquid acid)

[Muddytyres]

Thanks for all the input! Goo news was when I returned last weekend the tub was clean and clear and I only had to balance the pH a little. No foam! Im sure I'll have to deal with the iron every time I add water, and I plan on checking out this advice for future fills.

[Grateful11]

Picture of my filter after 6 to 8 hours of water circulation. 

Man I hope you filter your drinking water. 

[Letran]

Man I hope you filter your drinking water. 

nah, we just call him Iron Man,

...or was it Iron Mike

Iron lungs? I forget must be too much iron in my diet :-)