???

[spayogi]

Is this post accurate?
"Endurol is a form of acrylic, it is an acrylic DR. It has a tendency to get small checking type cracks on the bar top over time that Hotspring acknowledged by putting out a letter to all of their dealers stating this was an "natural part of the aging of the material" and they would not warranty it. Neither one has a really good support on the back of the shell and can get stress cracks. The upside of this is Watkins is pretty good and taking care of the warranty on these.

I would wet test both before making my decision, as far as what material, Endurol will be more impact resistant and you will like lighter colors more over time but the Quarite will have a thicker surface layer (it can just be brittle with impact)."

[Chas]

NO - not really accurate. I hear that from D1 dealers the most.

Endurol is a thermoplastic, which we 'own,' but it is not Acrylic. There is no duplicate of it on the market, though some have found/created very similar products. It is co-extruded with ABS on the back. By being co-extruded, the two materials cannot delaminate.

Our colored products are DR Acrylic. They are cast - with ABS - so they also cannot delaminate. All of these products have a 7-year warranty on HotSpring and Tiger River spas. They have proven to be very dependable.

Yes, there was a time we had checking along the bar top on some Endurol spas - but it was limited to one particular period of time - I don't think that it was more than six-months. But it was years ago. Some of our competitors like to bring it up as if it was news, but it was many years ago. Also: It was strictly an aesthetics issue.

The problem was caused by the amount of time from the creation of the sheet of plastic till the time it was formed into a shell. We have since changed our procedures so it will not recur. In fact, if you walk into our plant today, you will see one huge area of plastic sheet storage. The sheets do not belong to us until we pull them to go build a spa. And if they get too 'old' they go back.

[stuart]

Chas,
I would be happy to debate as to whether endurol is acrylic DR or not but as far as the material having a problem for about 6 months, come on, Hotspring has replaced more spas for shell material problems over the years than probably any other manufacture.

In the 80's they said the material cracked due to "Harsh Chemicals" and "Sunlight exposure" in the early 90's they said that there was a "slight problem with some of the material" but they were changing it in the mid 90's they said "we got a bad batch for the vendor" in the late 90's they came out with the letter to dealers saying that the small checks and cracks were "a natural part of the ageing process of the material" and "did not need to be replaced under warranty".

I remember how many shells I had to fix over the years - late 80's to mid 90's it was more cracks around the step and light lens. Mid 90's and early 2000 it was that in addition to full sized splits over the bar top. I not only have sold hundreds of Hotspring but I have personally delivered and serviced hundreds of them as well. I could just about fix them in my sleep, so by refuting what I said in my post as "not true" do you mean I'm misinformed, lying , must be a d1 dealer or all three!?

[spayogi]

Stuart,
I'd be interested to know your opinion of the acrylic shell(not white endurol) that HS sells in Tiger River line.

[Chas]

Chas,
I would be happy to debate as to whether endurol is acrylic DR or not but as far as the material having a problem for about 6 months, come on, HotSpring has replaced more spas for shell material problems over the years than probably any other manufacture.

A debate would be worthless. Why would you want to spend that much time trying to trash a particular product? I sure didn't mean to attack you - the information was the focus of my post. If you have some form of proof other than your saying so, I would be interested. But - I will tell you that I sat in Jim McClure's office a number of years ago and he told me the same thing. The national sales manager repeated the information, and I began to believe it. These men firmly believed what they were saying as far as I could tell.

I went back to Watkins and asked, and they refuted it, and explained that for a period of time we formed tubs from Centrex (white DR acrylic) and had terrible problems. They ended up replacing more tubs during that time than many smaller companies have ever sold! I'm sorry, but I don't recall the length of time - I know I said that I didn't think it was more than six months, but that is a guess. It's not at all important to shoppers, since they can't buy a tub with those problems today, and we have learned a great deal from the whole process.

Put a sample of the two materials side by side and you can tell the difference. I'm not saying Centrex was the problem either! When WE used it, we handled it just like Rovel/Endurol, and it didn't work that way. Also, we let the product age too long from the time it was cast to the time it was "pulled." Once the product is formed, there is no more age issue.

I remember how many shells I had to fix over the years - late 80's to mid 90's it was more cracks around the step and light lens.

OK, but those cracks were because the tubs didn't have foam support around the light lens area. They were taken care of under warranty, by the way.

Mid 90's and early 2000 it was that in addition to full sized splits over the bar top.

That's a new one on me. I haven't had any splits over the bar top, nor have I seen service bulletins or letters about them. Yes, I'm sure they can and do happen, but on a very small percentage of tubs, and I would wager that it is a smaller percentage than other makers.

I not only have sold hundreds of Hotspring but I have personally delivered and serviced hundreds of them as well. I could just about fix them in my sleep,

Then you must know that this is a fine product, and that the company has stood behind it all along. Even the Centrex tubs were well backed under warranty. Yes, there was a letter explaining that they had to stop replacing tubs when the crazing was light surface stuff.

There was no real reason to replace the whole tub if all that happened was a bunch of little lines formed on the surface. Most people wouldn't have even known it was there - on their own tub. It looked light a bunch of light scratches. But I still saw Watkins replace tubs for people who needed it.

so by refuting what I said in my post as "not true"

re-read my post: I said "No - not really accurate. " You seem to be truly bothered by this, and I'm sorry. I am not calling you anything. I have heard this information spouted from many sources, and it is incorrect. That doesn't mean that you don't believe it, nor does it mean that you are intentionally perpetuating misinformation.

do you mean I'm misinformed, lying , must be a d1 dealer or all three!?

Please, why are you inflaming what I said? I would choose none of the above. How about - 'repeating something that you - and many others - seem to believe, but that simply isn't accurate?

[spayogi]

Chas
I would be interested in your reply to Topic "Chas and Bruce need reply "posted on 6/14.
I am leaning towards a TR BEngal, HS Endurol Sovereign or Sundance Caprio(in that order) on 110V. Unfortunately, I now realize why I didn't buy spa 4 years ago when I first started search.
Thanks!!