60 amp Breakers

[johnnythunders]

I think I Just got the Electrical parts that i need.It seems Cutler-Hammer makes a 60 amps breaker and box set ,its called the HOT TUB PANEL with 60 AMP ground fault breaker all in one box and I needed a 60 amp for the box inside too.Cost $218 and I know I will need copper cable but will wait till my friend comes over to see how much we will need when he installs it.Was going to go and see if homedepot or Lowes had them but Jacuzzi says use Cutler-Hammer breakers...Anything else that i am missing that the good people of this board can tell me that i might also need.Johnny Thunders :-/

[Wisoki]

Jacuzzi sells Square D QO breakers to their dealers, Hmm that's odd that they would recommend Cuttler Hammer to a consumer. None the less, $218 is a bit high. You should be able to get a Sqare D  QO gfci w/ enclosure "box" for about 130 bucks.

[johnnythunders]

well I went to Jacuzzi's web site and it says use Square D or Cuttler Hammer breakers.I called around and everyone was out of stock or they don't sell 60 amps.So i guess the electric  Supply store charged me a bit more money for two 60 amps and GFCI box.Hope Cuttler-Hammer is a good brand that will not shut off all the time..........Johnny Thunders

[Brewman]

Cutler Hammer makes really good quality breakers, I'd stick with that brand or SquareD QO series.

You probably know this, but the breaker you buy for  your inside electrical panel does not need to be GFI'd.
Just be sure to check which brand of breaker your inside panel needs.

In order to be of more help with your wiring, you need to tell us what your plan is for the wiring.  What kind of wire are you running from your main panel to your spa panel?  Then you need to plan the run from your spa panel to the spa itself.  In addition to the wire itself, you may need conduit and the related fittings like elbows, hangers, pvc cement, etc.....

Be very careful when you are installing the breaker in your main panel.  Even if you shut off the main, there could be live spots in the panel upstream from the main shutoff.  My panel is this way.  

[Electro]

Brewman indicated the breaker you buy for your inside electrical panel does not need to have GFCI protection, when the outside subpanel has an appropriate GFCI-type breaker for the spa.

In this case, the inside breaker definitely should not be GFCI-protected.  It is allowed, but it is not required and it increases the likelihood of that circuit breaker tripping, due to small differences (nominally 5 milliamps) between the "hot" and "neutral" conductors.  This can more readily occur with longer wire lengths and exposure to outdoor and damp conditions, especially where the conductors supply modern nonlinear loads, e.g. electronic controls, fluorescent lights, and power supplies, or are physically near to devices that have a strong unshielded magnetic field.

Also, you should know that improper installation of GFCI devices by electricians and novices, with improperly trimmed wire ends, improperly tightened fasteners and without appropriate protection from moisture greatly increase or directly cause the GFCI to trip.  As a consequence of this, some folks who do not recognize the cause may believe that their GFCI is not working correctly when it really is and is protecting them from harm.

Electro

[Chas]

Man I love it when you talk like that...

[johnnythunders]

well I bought the Cuttler- Hammer hot tub Package with outside GFCI 60 anp breaker in the box for $198 and a indoor Cuttler-Hammer 60 amp breaker for $11.I am running 20 feet of the SJ Cord  number type 6 from the hot hub to the Gfci and then running 35 feet of the Romex 6 cable from the box into the walls to the box indoors.I thought the PVC pipe would be much more easy then running it in the walls.But my friend said you are crazy having it outdoors and having to cut the PVC and glueing it,he said it will be easier to have it in the walls.Sounds like a lot of work.Johnny Thunders

[Electro]

johnnythunders,

Please think about what you're doing.  Do you really want to spend all that money on a hot tub and then mess it up with cheap wiring that voids your warranty on the tub and also voids homeowner insurance on your house?

I'd encourage you not use SJ (called "junior hard service cord") to wire your hot tub from the GFCI breaker.  The electrical code (Articles 400.7 and 400. specifically disallows this use of flexible cord, in which it says such wiring shall not be used as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure, it may not be used through holes or other openings, it may not be attached to buildings, may not be concealed, and it may not be installed in raceway (such as PVC Schedule 80 or other conduit).  This cheap cord is completely unacceptable for this use according to direct language in the NEC.

Your best bet is to follow the hot tub manufacturer's instructions exactly for type of wire.  Most manufacturers will suggest using THHN, which has a modern "heat resistant thermoplastic" insulation. It is among the best and is cheap relative to its ability to do the job continuously for many years.

I'm not clear on your mention of the use of PVC.  PVC Schedule 80 pipe can be used for an underground conduit or imbedded in concrete and only in applications where there is absolutely no exposure to the sun, which will melt the PVC.

Romex is okay in the walls of your house, but it cannot be routed through the walls to go outside.  So, you'd have to go to a junction box and route an appropriately rated wire (in conduit) from the junction box to your outside Cutler-Hammer box and GFCI breaker, unless the Romex can end in your outdoor box on the other side of the house wall, without being exposed or routed in conduit outside.  Why use this cheap junk wire, when THHN is readily available for less than 50 cents a foot, it can be used in conduit (unlike Romex) and you don't have to use a junction box when going outside.

Electro

[johnnythunders]

Thanks for the advise,My friend is the head electrician for the school systems.So i hope he knows what he is doing.My other friend said he would use PVC piping.But he said screw it just get 10 feet extra of the  Romex cable and 10 feet extra of the SJ cable. and well will have no problems with putting it through the walls.He does not want to use PVC and it seems like he know wants he's doing.I hope lol.Thanks again for your advise.Johnny Thunders

[Chas]

I know these people are your friends, but you are getting some very good advice here, and yet you seem to be willing to disregard it.

As somebody who has absolutely nothing to gain from how you wire your spa, may I suggest you go with the National Electric Code?

I would run the appropriate conduit, then pull THHN or similar wire - in the appropriate size.

Then I would have an inspector pass or fail the job.

[Brewman]

You really need to consider running THHN/THWN wire from your disconnect to the spa.  This wire must be enclosed in some type of conduit.  For outdoors, you can get PVC electrical conduit suitable for sunlight, and even direct burial.  You could transition from the rigid PVC to sealtite (Flexible, water resistant) for the last several feet of this run.  You should have an insulated ground wire run in this conduit too.  
Chas' suggetion to get the electrical run inspected is excellent advice.
Brewman

[johnnythunders]

Well when he came here he had different ideas but looking where the spa was and going though walls,he changed his mind and we went with the PVC instead.He did a nice hookup of the PVC and cables and everything works great.Thanks for your advise to all the good people of this site.Johnny Thunders