My hot tub was unsafe.....a chemical disaster!

[Hottubguy]

Where can you find 5 lb's of dichlor for $12?  That seems unbelievably low to me

[Tman122]

Where can you find 5 lb's of dichlor for $12?  That seems unbelievably low to me

Top secret.

No really I think in a store it's more like $20 One of the dealers I do work for sells it to me, likely at cost.

[sharonlee]

I am reading these posts with great interest - we purchased a 190 gallon 110volt tub in September - along with all the Diamond products - have had rashes/itching since.  It does have an ozonator built in to it -  what we were doing is using Bromine tabs in a floater (keeping it full and floating unless we were in it) then using two capfuls of a product called Spa Shock each day when we get out of the tub from soaking - then we were told to put 1/2 packet of spa frog in once a week - ( we have ph up and down  - alk up, foam be gone, sani start.........the pool place has had us trying everything to get it right ) - we test and it looks close to the colors - but we are still rashy and itchy.  I was trying to come up with a plan that would be for a 190 gallon tub - what to use each day, week......  it is only two adults (and we shower before and after)  I am ready to give up - but I love the tub so much.  ZThe water looks clear and doesn't smell bad, just a little like the bromine.  Are we using too much? too little?  is there something we can try?  help please.......

[sorebikr]

I am reading these posts with great interest - we purchased a 190 gallon 110volt tub in September - along with all the Diamond products - have had rashes/itching since.  It does have an ozonator built in to it -  what we were doing is using Bromine tabs in a floater (keeping it full and floating unless we were in it) then using two capfuls of a product called Spa Shock each day when we get out of the tub from soaking - then we were told to put 1/2 packet of spa frog in once a week - ( we have ph up and down  - alk up, foam be gone, sani start.........the pool place has had us trying everything to get it right ) - we test and it looks close to the colors - but we are still rashy and itchy.  I was trying to come up with a plan that would be for a 190 gallon tub - what to use each day, week......  it is only two adults (and we shower before and after)  I am ready to give up - but I love the tub so much.  ZThe water looks clear and doesn't smell bad, just a little like the bromine.  Are we using too much? too little?  is there something we can try?  help please.......

Short answer:  You're adding too much. 

Dump out the water and start over. Add your sanitizer, slowly, in small increments, waiting a good hour or two before testing the water.  Then get your PH right.  190 is a small tub, and small amounts will make big differences in your water balance. 

If you give the board accurate readings from your test kit, and describe your bathing habits (Every other day, 30 minutes, 2 people?) you'll get some clear advice here on how much to add, and how frequently. 

You'll also get advice to skip all that tricky stuff and just toss in a packet or two of wonder drug X and you'll be fine. 

Its up to you how to proceed.  Once you get it right, stick with what works for you and enjoy.  There's no reason however to be itchy or uncomfortable.

[sharonlee]

I was thinking it sounded like alot of stuff myself - we liked going in every day and would usually stay in for 30 minutes - we shower before and after getting in the tub - we have been using the test strips and it is really hard to judge the colors (they all look so close) I wanted to get a better test kit - but was waiting till I was sure what chemicals we were going to use because someone told me that there are several ones and you have to get the right one for the chemicals you use -  when we first got the tub we went to a local pool place and that guy told us to just use bleach and baking soda to keep up with a small tub?  now like I said we have every thing under the sun as far as chemicals go - what route would you suggest for that size of tub and what test kit (I hope that you all do not mind so many questions, but we just do not know)  thanks so much for any and all help :-)

[Tman122]

Some people do have a reaction like this to MPS also. I think your product called spa shock is MPS right? Peroxymonopersulfate? Is that what it is? I don't have any to look at the label.

[sorebikr]

I was thinking it sounded like alot of stuff myself - we liked going in every day and would usually stay in for 30 minutes - we shower before and after getting in the tub - we have been using the test strips and it is really hard to judge the colors (they all look so close) I wanted to get a better test kit - but was waiting till I was sure what chemicals we were going to use because someone told me that there are several ones and you have to get the right one for the chemicals you use -  when we first got the tub we went to a local pool place and that guy told us to just use bleach and baking soda to keep up with a small tub?  now like I said we have every thing under the sun as far as chemicals go - what route would you suggest for that size of tub and what test kit (I hope that you all do not mind so many questions, but we just do not know)  thanks so much for any and all help :-)

You'll get a bunch of answers here, and I don't claim to be any sort of expert.  I am most familiar with chlorine.  I grew up with a pool, using chlorine and so that's what I naturally gravitated towards when I bought my hot tub a couple years ago.  With chlorine I purchased the Taylor test kit:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002IXIIG/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Its a little complicated at first, but I have much more success with it than I ever did the strips.  Some people like the strips, I thought they were useless. 

Baking Soda is one of your key ingredients.  Its not a cleaning agent, its just a base.  It can be used to raise your alkalinity, aiming for 80-100 ppm.  It'll also raise your ph a bit.  I use Spa Down once in a while, not often, to drop the ph as needed.

What you need to do varies based on what comes out of your tap.

As far as keeping it clean. as I mentioned I use chlorine.  I aim to have a chlorine level of near 0 when I get into the tub, and then add chlorine when we're done soaking.  Every now and then using a non-chlorine shock to reduce the combined chlorine level. 

All in all, it shouldn't be too complicated for you, and when in doubt (depending on your location) you can always dump the water and start over.  Until you find your equilibrium, that's a better option than chasing your tail.

Again, add your chemicals slowly (whatever path you take) and wait an hour or two before testing.  Also, only add one chemical at a time.

[Payton]

Thank you all for your input. I have ecoone sending me their data sheet but we were skiing in Vermont for long week-end so no chlorine added and tub starting to look slimy again. I added a shock packet before I left, turned tub down to 100, and noone was in it for 5 days. So I absolutely want to drain it and start over. I can get to drain now after digging snow out but it's 20 degrees here. Can you give me advice on draining, cleaning and refilling without freezing or damaging tub. I am sure it's a bacterial problem after seeing the slimy exudate on the filter. Thanks again. Because of the major snow we've had I did not empty tub at 30 days like recommended and I'm sure that did not help.

[sharonlee]

so I researched a bit more on this Spaguard Spa SHock (which is 31% Pot. Peroxymonosulfate?)   we have been adding 2 capfuls after each soak (2 adults showering before) and whammo....back to the rashes and itchies - I read that we should only be adding this SpaShock once a week?  the pool place people said two capfuls A DAY?  I am going to drain and start over - 190 gallons of water - can someone sort of list what I should add to start the tub off and then what I should add daily after every soak?  I am just not getting it at all - and if I need to add the bleach and baking soda , how much and when on that too - I really appreciate help - I miss not getting in the tub :-(   I have Brom tabs, Renew, Spa Shock, PH UP, PH Down, Scale Remover, Spa Frog packets, Alk Up, foam remover,,,,,,,,,   I am just about out of money and skin LOL LOL

[JohnnyK45]

I have Brom tabs, Renew, Spa Shock, PH UP, PH Down, Scale Remover, Spa Frog packets, Alk Up, foam remover,,,,,,,,,   I am just about out of money and skin LOL LOL

I think you're not alone with that list of products on a shelf, unfortunately.  After the advice in this thread, if you still are not happy, give EcoOne a shot.  It does cost a little more per year, but all you need is their EcoOne Spa Monthly all natural product (that is added once a month of course), and then just their EcoOne Shock packets (which you just throw one it your hot tub each time you get out) - that's it, simple and easy.  I test my water about once a month or month and a half, it's always spot on and skin feels great.

Best of luck.

[hottubdan]

...You mentioned "Liquid" chlorine which was the only thing that gave me concern.  Unless things have changed in the past few years, 95% of us use a granular chlorine (Di-Chlor) and most liquids are a TRI-Chlor which would NOT be recommended for hot tubs as it can cause deterioration.

Clorox with a minimum 6% concentration is approved as a sanitizer for hot tubs and pools when used correctly.

Approved by who?

[chem geek]

Approved by who?

The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) that registers all pesticides.  See the PAN Pesticides Database where Clorox bleach has an EPA registration number of 5813-50 and under Uses it is a "Disinfectant" and under Crops and Locations it shows "Swimming pool water", "Swimming pool water (wading pool)", "Hot tubs (outdoor) (water treatment)", "Spas (outdoor) (water treatment)".  See pages 21-22 of this EPA document (from the most recent label approval in the Pesticide Product Label System) for swimming pools and pages 25-26 for wading pools and pages 32-33 for spas and hot tubs.  There is also this service bulletin from Clorox with the same information.

Do not use just any bleach.  Specialty bleaches, such as "splashless" or "outdoor" contain additional chemicals that you don't want in a pool or spa since the thickening agents can cause foaming.  Also, do not use bleach without having some CYA in the water first or else the active chlorine level will be too strong (known science since at least 1974 when the equilibrium constants of chlorine unbound and bound to CYA were definitively determined as described in this paper).  CYA significantly moderates chlorines strength.  You want some in the water (30-40 ppm), but not too much.  Continued use of Dichlor-only will build up CYA which is part of the reason water turns dull/cloudy sooner with that method than with Dichlor-then-bleach.  Also, when using any hypochlorite source of chlorine in a spa with lots of aeration (such as jets), you need to have the Total Alkalinity (TA) level kept lower (as low as 50 ppm if necessary) and use 50 ppm borates as a pH buffer.

[hottubdan]

Approved by who?

The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) that registers all pesticides.  See the PAN Pesticides Database where Clorox bleach has an EPA registration number of 5813-50 and under Uses it is a "Disinfectant" and under Crops and Locations it shows "Swimming pool water", "Swimming pool water (wading pool)", "Hot tubs (outdoor) (water treatment)", "Spas (outdoor) (water treatment)".  See pages 21-22 of this EPA document (from the most recent label approval in the Pesticide Product Label System) for swimming pools and pages 25-26 for wading pools and pages 32-33 for spas and hot tubs.  There is also this service bulletin from Clorox with the same information.

Do not use just any bleach.  Specialty bleaches, such as "splashless" or "outdoor" contain additional chemicals that you don't want in a pool or spa since the thickening agents can cause foaming.  Also, do not use bleach without having some CYA in the water first or else the active chlorine level will be too strong (known science since at least 1974 when the equilibrium constants of chlorine unbound and bound to CYA were definitively determined as described in this paper).  CYA significantly moderates chlorines strength.  You want some in the water (30-40 ppm), but not too much.  Continued use of Dichlor-only will build up CYA which is part of the reason water turns dull/cloudy sooner with that method than with Dichlor-then-bleach.  Also, when using any hypochlorite source of chlorine in a spa with lots of aeration (such as jets), you need to have the Total Alkalinity (TA) level kept lower (as low as 50 ppm if necessary) and use 50 ppm borates as a pH buffer.

Thanks for the info regarding EPA.  So the truth is that it is "approved by EPA" not by the hot tub industry per se.

[chem geek]

That's right.  In fact, quite a few hot tub manufacturers explicitly say not to use bleach, but that's because that's the simplest thing to say rather than the more correct answer which is that one shouldn't use bleach without first having some CYA in the water and taking steps to prevent the pH rise from carbon dioxide outgassing (i.e. have a lower TA target and use a pH buffer such as 50 ppm Borates).  So for simplicity, it's just easier to say to use Dichlor since it already has CYA in it and is a little acidic when accounting for chlorine usage so tends to keep pH in balance at a certain TA level.  The downside is that it builds up CYA fairly quickly in more heavily used spas so significantly shortens the time between required water changes.

[Tman122]

Shortening the time between water changes is not necessarily a bad thing. Especially for new owners.