Advantages of a 24/7 circulation pump

[ZzTop]

The advantages of a 24/7 dedicated circulation pump.

These pumps are very energy efficient to run.  Consider a pump drawing 0.6 amps running 24 hours a day while filtering 42,000 gallons of water per day with a 30 second perge cycle (jet pumps on high speed).

A 24/7 circ pump provides even and continuous heating of the spa as the pump is continuously moving water past the heater which distributes hot water evenly to the tub.

Generally a jet pump will also be programmed to run for  30 seconds twice in a 24 hour period to purge water and mix the spa water to make sure there is no standing unfiltered water in the tub and break up surface tension.  This adds up to very good high volume, continuous filtration.

If you are using an ozinator, it will operate 24/7 along with the circ pump resulting in a continuous application of Ozone to the spa water.  This is a big advantage if you are using ozone.  Other programmed systems only allow the ozone generator to operate when the pumps are operating.

Savings.  A dedicated cirulation pump costs less to run than the more expensive jet pumps.  This also extends the jet pumps life expectancy.

Quieter operation.

[Chas]

Yeah, but other than that....

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Just cause I'm in the mood to play devils advocate :-)

"These pumps are very energy efficient to run.  Consider a pump drawing 0.6 amps running 24 hours a day while filtering 42,000 gallons of water per day"

Amps are Amp, or watts. Is there a cost DIFFERENCE between filtering 42,000 gallons with a circ pump vs a jet pump? Sure a circ pump costs less per hour to operate, but has to run MANY hours longer to move the same volume of water.


"Generally a jet pump will also be programmed to run for  30 seconds twice in a 24 hour period to purge water and mix the spa water to make sure there is no standing unfiltered water in the tub and break up surface tension.  This adds up to very good high volume, continuous filtration."

Unfortunatly the VAST majority of a motors wear and tear comes from simply turning it on. Weather it runs for 30 seconds or 30 minutes, the difference in wear is neglagable.


"Savings.  A dedicated cirulation pump costs less to run than the more expensive jet pumps."

I'll repeat; Amps are Amp, or watts. Is there a cost DIFFERENCE between filtering 42,000 gallons with a circ pump vs a jet pump? Sure a circ pump costs less per hour to operate, but has to run MANY hours longer to move the same volume of water.

"This also extends the jet pumps life expectancy."

So? Lets say a circ pump costs 25% of what a jet pump costs. If using a circ pump extends the lift of a jet pump 25% is there really any savings..... and you have to consider the added cost of the circ pump....

Personally I don't advocate one way or another. Many major manufacturers have been and are sucessful with each.

You did though miss one important point.... A circ pump tends to be much quieter and will create less vibrations.

[Mendocino101]

42000 gallons of water a day seems high for most circ pumps...I think beachcombers does move that much volume....but....I think they are on the very high end...if I am not mistaken.....Hotprings....Sundance...Caldera....turns the water over in the tub about 10 to 12 times daily.....or about.....8000 gallons a day....perhaps Chas can verify this.....

[Roborph]

Since a circ pump runs 24/7, then that pump is not turning on and off....therefore less wear and tear on the pump...ask any engineer

[drb]

First of all, it's true that starting is tough on a motor - particularly a single-phase motor.  

The difference between running a small pump for a longer period of time is that the flow resistance of the piping is much, much lower at a lower flow.  Where (I'm making these numbers up) it might take 2 hp to move 100 gpm, it might only take an eighth of a horsepower to move 25 gpm.  Like I said, these are made-up numbers, but it's not a straight-line relationship.

I would say that the real advantage of a 24/7 circulation pump is continouous ozonation.

BTW, I am an engineer (like that would make anyone feel better!)

[ZzTop]

I would say that the real advantage of a 24/7 circulation pump is continouous ozonation.

.
Yes drb I think the greatest advantage of a 24/7 circ pump is 24 hour Ozination.

I cannot see how a jet pump run two or four hours in a 24 hour period can give the same amount of ozination.  

[Gary]

The only atvantage of a small 24/7 circ pump is for the service companies. They have made me lots of money over the years.

They are not cheaper to operate monthly, they move less water, they cannot break the surface tension of the water.

I do not sell spas only fix them and Laing and Mighty Mights do not belong in spas.

Gary

[Chas]

Nice opinion Gary.

HotSpring spas have a simple 1/4" line connecting the jet system to the circ system, so they don't need to fire up the jet pumps for a purge cycle. That saves money, and wear on the jet pump motors. It's a little thing, but it works - keeping a small amount of flow going everywhere in the spa - even the filter compartment has a little 'jet' from the circ pump.

Breaking the surface tension has never been the plan - I know Beachcomber does it with the larger pump - but put the two spas side by side, and I think you'll find both stay clean.

HS puts a five-year warranty on the circ pump, and with proper attention to pH it should last twice that.

Keeping the water in motion keeps the temp consistent. Everywhere - even in the heater. In our case, that's where the temp sensor is (since it has water going by it all the time) so keeping all the water at the same temp keeps the heater from cycling when it doesn't really need to.

If you have ozone - a circ pump can put it into the water for you constantly. Works much better that way, and the 03 system doesn't turn off and on either - better for it as well.

The things are just about silent! Being in beach communities, we have a lot of folks who put the spa on an upstairs deck, and the master suite might be just below. Noisy heating systems that come and go, or purge the jets at odd hours are simply not an option.

By adding a filter to the circ system, we have augmented the main filtration - a modest 6 gallons per hour - but over 24 hours, that's a substantial amount of water moved.

I have worked on many brands of tubs, and they all have one item that is the most commonly replaced part for that brand. For most, it is the heating element - for others it's a heater relay - esp. on spas without circ pumps, which tend to cycle the heater many times a day - or it could be a timer motor on a mechanical time clock - now replaced with digital systems that can have their own goblins.

So Gary, when you say that you replace a lot of circ pumps, that simply means that there are a lot of HS spas in your area. And when you say 'they don't belong on spas," I could say the same thing about blowers, or mechanical control systems, or Hayward pumps, or double pumps, or cheap cover lifters, ceramic tile, chrome, misters,  etc. etc.

Finally - opinions aside: the tubs clearly work. People wouldn't be sending in friends and relatives to buy tubs with these things if they didn't - and the numbers show that HS is the leader. Sorry you don't like them, a lot of other people sure do.

[ZzTop]

Chas well done!

[ZzTop]

Just cause I'm in the mood to play devils advocate :-)
.

You did though miss one important point.... A circ pump tends to be much quieter and will create less vibrations.

You might want to re read the thread.  My last line reads "Quieter Operation"

[Gary]

I agree with most of what you stated Chas. Especially about blowers, tile...

I also agree if they are taken care of, they are fine, but with the small impellers they do not have a lot tolerance for peoples incompetence. With the Laings the balance of the impeller is very important so you get a little debris in the pump and it can be toast. Most of the time failures are on the consumer end not Laing. I talked with Laing and they stated they only warranty 2% of the pumps returned.

Both ways will work if engineered correctly but with a higher flow system I do not care if a sucked a few leaves in.

Also the only reason these little gold mines came into use in spas was noise, not any other reason.

Gary

[Chas]

Well, I don't know. Back in 1977, when Jeff and Jon were designing the 'Classic,' made of Fiberglas, with no insulation, four jets and a Sta-rite maxiglas (single-speed) pump and a Sta Rite Posi-Flo filter stuffed under the huge hood area - they found it was better to have a little pump dedicated to the heater.

The fact that Sta Rite didn't offer the Maxi Glas pump with a two-speed motor may very well have been the deciding factor- especially since they were convinced that a portable spa had to be 110 volt to be truly 'portable' -  and a 20 amp 110 volt outlet could not run the jet pump and the heating system at the same time.

The circ pumps were Cal-Pumps, short for Calvert Engineering. I liked the fact that they were made right here in Van Nuys, CA - and I could buy direct for the same price.

I think the mechanical thermostats and hi-limits made me a lot more money than the circ pumps ever did. And on Jacuzzi spas, it was the little relays.