Natural Hot Tub co

[Vinny]

There's something not right and it may be with me.

How is using the Vermonter's method voiding any warranty? Are you sure you're not confusing the Vermonter method with the bleach method? If you add chlorine before or after use what's the difference with the tub manufacturer - you're using chlorine! You have not stopped using chlorine so it can't be the chlorine. Adding chlorine after only affects the possible safety of the tub's users as there will be no chlorine when soaking.

I believe aeration causes the PH to drop not raise. I have read that the reasons PH goes down in most tubs is because 1) the acidic affect of dichlor (won't go into it unless pushed - I barely understand it to get too deep) and 2) the aeration of the jets. My water has always dropped in PH during the 3 years of use, since I've been using bleach it has remained about the same ~ 7.6 to 7.8.

Adding MPS will raise your TDS faster then dichlor but will not raise your CYA as you said. CYA of 300 which most of us deal with depending on use is still killing bacteria. People have used MPS daily and chlorine weekly without anything extra except the N2, the only problem I can see is that your not killing bacteria with the MPS and you do with chlorine. I can't say why N2 or the Frog doesn't work well but in my water but it doesn't, getting an extra clear day using them just isn't worth it IMO. Your using chlorine and clarifier weekly seems a little extreme since these things shouldn't be needed if the product is doing it's job IMO.

As far as "killing" the enzymes - they are right they aren't alive but neither is dirt, soap and body oils. These all get "eaten" by chlorine and MPS so I would imagine as either is introduced to the tub the enzymes are being neutralized. Considering they didn't or couldn't explain should raise a red flag.

If it works for the two week vacation then it may be the thing to add when you do go on vacation and that's it.

It's nice to see that as a dealer you're not blindly listening to whatever a company tells you!

[wewannahottub]

Also, I forgot to add,  I asked how the enzymes did not die with the chlorine and ozone. I was told that their enzymes are not living like other companies, so they can't die like the others. I then asked how "dead" enzymes "eat" up the goo and I was told it was a trade secret of a secret mixture of enzymes.

I was never told how this scientifically worked. At this point for all I know, it may be a glorified clarifier and PH buffer!

I was a bit angry that they could not exsplain how dead critters eat, at least in laymans terms. I did not want thair recipe!

It is always a red flag to me when a company will not explain what is in their system or how it works.

I would have to wonder about Poison Control and an MSDS if they do not supply their "secret ingredient".  

Otherwise, it has been interesting reading about Hillbilly's experiment.  But, I do wonder,...

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Sorry Vinny, I'm the one not right...it is the bleach method I was talking about, I will have to go back and read the vermonter method again, its been a long summer....need my vacation....thought I smelled the ocean last night and we are 2 hours away from it!!

What I have been taught is PH will rise with airation/ozone/multi jets. I am sure the different chemicals all play a different role, again, I was on the bleach method of thought.

Manufacutres will void warrenties if you use chlorine that is anything other than dichlor, if they find out. The Ph of some chlorine is very high, others very low, so they are trying to prevent people from damageing the tub with the wrong type of chlorine, plus some have added stuff like calcium..But this is all an ongoing saga, specially in another forum. My opinion is, if it works for you, no bad side effects than go with it!

wewanna....the website is www.thenaturalhottubco.com  I cant find the MSDS or a true exsplanation there either.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Well we are back from vacation, had a mishap while we were gone.....

We left the tub as we were told, bring the chlorine level up to 5. 5 days into our vacation we got a phone call, checked on tub and a fuse had blown, no filtering, no ozone, no heat, tub was at 85 degrees Our son has not been taught how to change these yet so we had him shut off the breaker and we would deal with it when we got home.

 On arrival home 7 days later I thought I would open the cover and have bad smells and gooey water. To my suprise the water was crystal clear, PH was at 7.7 and chlorine reading was at 2 still. Replaced the fuse, shocked it to be safe and off to the races. The water was great that night.

So, I will have to give credit there, I really thought I would have a soupy mess and did not, even with the tub shut down. Still no real complaints, just weighing the cost factor, i guess I am still a bit of a N2 fan at heart.

[starsky]

This is similar to what I'm trying. It's called the pebble system. I don't know if its been covered before. It's simple. I drop 2 quarter size river rocks into the spa and let them settle to the bottom. That's it. I've been doing that for a month and my water is clear and tests are great. All I have to do now is every once in awhile, like once a day, add some di-chlr, along with the nature 2 cartridge that is always present, the river rocks make the hot tub practically maintenance free.  

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

I've always advised, if there's absolutely no possibility of freezing, simply shut off the spa. If the spa is covered, and the water is still, nothing is getting mixed into the water that will start growing. I've seen spas that are shut off for a few months, that only take a little chlorine to get back up and running.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

I will have to disagree a bit, There is always stuff in the spa, if the sanitizer level drops, it will start growing. The filters are a prime breeding ground. You dont save enough money to shut it down just to heat it all back up again IMO.

If the sanitizer level stays up, you should be safe. I was worried my sanitizer level would get chewed up quickly  from stuff growing in the filters etc.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

And I must disagree even more :-). If you shock the spa, there shouldn't be anything "living" to start growing, until it get's mixed into , or introduced into the water. Any churning of the water, or air being introduced through the jets will add "living organisms" into the water more quickly than letting the water "stand still". Additionally, moving the water will cause it to aerate more, becoming more oxygenated, allowing more to grow. While the filter CREATES a huge demand on sanitizer, it's more for oxidizing dead matter that's trapped there.

I will have to disagree a bit, There is always stuff in the spa, if the sanitizer level drops, it will start growing. The filters are a prime breeding ground. You dont save enough money to shut it down just to heat it all back up again IMO.

If the sanitizer level stays up, you should be safe. I was worried my sanitizer level would get chewed up quickly  from stuff growing in the filters etc.

[Chas]

Its a safe bet that just about any spa with a good cover would do as yours did while on vacation - that is: chlorine shock it before you go and shut it down.

I have had plenty of my own, and my customer's tubs do this.

The chlorine is more stable once the water temp drops. Seventy or so would be better, but still, eighty is much better than 101 or 102.

And, as Doc said, with no movement, other than whatever currents may occur as the water cools, and no outside influence, the water should stay fine for a couple of weeks easy.

I did a very careful trial of a natural enzyme based product several years ago. I found the one and only difference was that the tub smelled lightly of Coconut, and our skin felt softer getting out. We could do that with a fragrance. In fact, we do.

 8-)

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Doc said months, not a week or 2. If there is no chlorine residual, stuff will grow. For just a couple of weeks the cost to heat it back up outweighs what was saved by not runiing, or very close to it.

This system does not have coconut, I am farmilar with the one you are talking about and I did not have good luck with that one.

The advantage so far with this one is no clarifiers being used (and I am a Sea Klear lover!), no foam down, lower risdual of chlorine. PH has being staying in line with ALK, although it is a bit higher than I am used to running. No scum lines and filters rinse out very easy. I have  not noticed softer skin, although there is lanolin in this. I have terribly dry skin to begin with.

Disadvantage is cost, does it outweigh the benifits...

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

For just a couple of weeks the cost to heat it back up outweighs what was saved by not runiing, or very close to it.

I'm sorry, but this is completely untrue. Newtons basic law of cooling should be evidence enough. In addition, much less will "grow" in water with a lower temperature. And as I've said before, and I'll say it again, I've seen a number of tub that were simply shut off for MONTHS, and with little effort the water can be saved.

[Gary]

I'm sorry, but this is completely untrue. Newtons basic law of cooling should be evidence enough. In addition, much less will "grow" in water with a lower temperature. And as I've said before, and I'll say it again, I've seen a number of tub that were simply shut off for MONTHS, and with little effort the water can be saved.

Doc is correct! I have done it many of times.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

And I have seen a number that look like swamps. Yes cooler water grows less germs, but grows germs never less. As a legitimate insured buisness that personally knows and cares for my customers, I would never suggest my customers to get into a tub that has not been sanitized for months, then shocked.

 Its an ongoing battle to what it saves turning a tub down for a short time, I go by what my father who has 50 years with the electric company tells me and my own tests of shutting the tub down for that. Others may be right, or have different opinions on this forum also, so I am done arguing that mute point, this thread was about an enzyme product I was trying not how can we save old nasty water.