My 1 1/2 month impression of the Spa Frog

[Vinny]

Well it's been about 1 1/2 months since I changed the water and started using the Spa Frog.

Here's what I think/observed:

I do notice that my water has cleared up faster when it gets cloudy with the Frog then without. I didn't need to use a clarifier and within 24 hours the water was crystal clear. BTW, I was pushing the limits to see how long it took and what happens after using chlorine.

My water is fizzy as it was without so that hasn't changed, It started about 2 weeks ago. I did (do) notice that there seems to be a surface "scum" (for lack of a better word) that holds some bubbles at times. I am thinking that it comes from the minerals that are used (maybe wouldn't happen with N2 - different formulation). It doesn't make the water dirty looking, I just notice that every so often the tub has bubbles that don't go away.

The water doesn't feel any different. Not silky as they claim it to be.

I can not use less chlorine. I started to use only 1 1/2 PPM chlorine and the tub turned cloudy quickly. I do think my tub stays a little better than without using it. Dosing with 3 PPM seems to be the required amount that my tub needs to kill the bacteria and maintain a clear tub.

Maybe the tub is easy to go into high PH. I had a PH of 7.2 and added 2 oz of baking soda and it went to 7.8. I didn't expect it to go that high ... maybe it would have done that without the Frog.

So my conclusion at this point: It does something but for me I don't think much. The water being fizzy I guess can be from the TDS being higher from the minerals. I was impressed on how fast the tub cleared when cloudy, I attribute this possibly to the silver making the cell wall of the bacteria weak and the chlorine to burn it all up - no leftover cell wall. Everything else at this point I will have to observe - PH and how long the water lasts with a 3 PPM dose. Silkiness is not there.

I will see if I can get 4 months out of this water and I do have a 2nd Frog for the next water change. At this point though I will agree that it probably gives a little extra something to help with bacteria in the tub. But for me, it doesn't seem to do enough to spend an extra $80 a year.

I will still try to keep an open mind as I use this and the other one to see if it makes a bigger difference than I am thinking.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

I can not use less chlorine. I started to use only 1 1/2 PPM chlorine and the tub turned cloudy quickly. I do think my tub stays a little better than without using it. Dosing with 3 PPM seems to be the required amount that my tub needs to kill the bacteria and maintain a clear tub.

Vinny, this seems to be a common misconception. "Using less chlorine" does NOT mean a lower PPM reading in the water, It MEANS that it's supposed to take LESS chlorine to reach the NORMALY DESIRED ppm reading.

[hottub.pool_boy]

Vin,
Been considering caring it for more than ayear now. Thanks for the input, interested in hearing more as you go along.

[Vinny]

Vinny, this seems to be a common misconception. "Using less chlorine" does NOT mean a lower PPM reading in the water, It MEANS that it's supposed to take LESS chlorine to reach the NORMALY DESIRED ppm reading.

Hey Doc,

From what I was reading on both N2 and Frog websites I think they hawk using lower chlorine levels and if the tub gets cloudy then use more.

From the N2 website:

"It feels better.
Cuts chlorine use to just 0.5ppm "
 
From the Spa Frog website:

"Can I really cut my bromine levels by 50%*?

Yes, under most circumstances the average spa owner will be able to lower their bromine or chlorine levels to 1ppm."

I read these statements as cutting the PPM of chlorine not using less chlorine to achieve the same PPM.

[Chad]

Vinny, I enjoy reading your updates, thanks. I've never used or read to much about the Frog only about N2. What are the main differences?

FTWC, I've been enjoying me first N2 cartridge for 2 months now and absolutely love it. My dichlor usage has been cut to about half, pH and alk are more stable, and I can actually feel a difference to the water. It's kind of silky like Vinny mentioned. When I said that my dichlor usage has been cut in half, what I mean is that I can get by with just (3) 3 ppm doses a week instead dosing after every soak. It pays dividends in cold weather- where all you want to do is soak and close. I would highly reccommend this product.

BTW, please take into consideration that 95% of the time my bather load is just me.

[Reese]

... I did (do) notice that there seems to be a surface "scum" (for lack of a better word) that holds some bubbles at times. I am thinking that it comes from the minerals that are used (maybe wouldn't happen with N2 - different formulation). ...The water doesn't feel any different. Not silky as they claim it to be...Maybe the tub is easy to go into high PH. I had a PH of 7.2 and added 2 oz of baking soda and it went to 7.8. I didn't expect it to go that high ... I will still try to keep an open mind as I use this and the other one to see if it makes a bigger difference than I am thinking.

Hi Vinny, thanks for the report!  I had a couple of thoughts about your observations:

1.  You can't get by with 1/2 the chlorine, but can you go longer between doses?  FWIW, in my tub I can get by with a 2ppm dose with N2 (that is the borderline, 1.5 doesn't cut it), but need 3-5 without.  I can also go 3-4 days between doses if not using the tub vs. needing to hit it every other day without. Even with N2, as I get further into the water life, and TDS and CYA build up, I find that I have to increase doses.  The difference is I end up at 3 ppm vs 5.

2.  I wonder if the "scum", feel, and pH effects are related to the formulation.  Someone posted once that Frog uses limestone instead of copper to make it compatible with bromine.  I wonder if the limestone is intended to offset the pH effects of bromine by adding carbonate, and perhaps makes the water a little "coarser" than N2.

3.  FYI, my evaluation of the cost/benefit is only slightly different than yours -- that the benefits are marginal, but IMO the ability to go an extra day or two between doses, and the slightly less dichlor use, combined with the slightly better aesthetics and overall ease, make it barely worth the added expense.  I think I've posted before that I wouldn't use it at the prices I see posted at most dealers.  If there weren't "deals" on eBay, I'd go without it.

Whynot, if I understand you, you are using the tub daily but only dosing every other day.  Just my opinion, but I like to match the sanitizer with the introduction of contaminants, so I'm not a big fan of using the tub without dosing to kill off what is left behind.  You may want to consider a smaller dose after each use, instead of 3ppm a few times a week.

[Chad]

Whynot, if I understand you, you are using the tub daily but only dosing every other day.  Just my opinion, but I like to match the sanitizer with the introduction of contaminants, so I'm not a big fan of using the tub without dosing to kill off what is left behind.  You may want to consider a smaller dose after each use, instead of 3ppm a few times a week.

Reese, I use the tub between 5-7 days a week. I shower before soakin' about 9 out of 10 times and bring my tub to an 8-10 ppm every weekend whether it needs it or not. That dose lasts a couple of days and then when that dose gets used up I add a couple of 3 ppm doses a week(2-3).  I have yet to have a problem following this new routine of mine but if for some reason it fails I will definetly consider your  reccommendation.

Thanks,

Chad

[Vinny]

Hi Vinny, thanks for the report!  I had a couple of thoughts about your observations:

1.  You can't get by with 1/2 the chlorine, but can you go longer between doses?  FWIW, in my tub I can get by with a 2ppm dose with N2 (that is the borderline, 1.5 doesn't cut it), but need 3-5 without.  I can also go 3-4 days between doses if not using the tub vs. needing to hit it every other day without. Even with N2, as I get further into the water life, and TDS and CYA build up, I find that I have to increase doses.  The difference is I end up at 3 ppm vs 5.

2.  I wonder if the "scum", feel, and pH effects are related to the formulation.  Someone posted once that Frog uses limestone instead of copper to make it compatible with bromine.  I wonder if the limestone is intended to offset the pH effects of bromine by adding carbonate, and perhaps makes the water a little "coarser" than N2.

3.  FYI, my evaluation of the cost/benefit is only slightly different than yours -- that the benefits are marginal, but IMO the ability to go an extra day or two between doses, and the slightly less dichlor use, combined with the slightly better aesthetics and overall ease, make it barely worth the added expense.  I think I've posted before that I wouldn't use it at the prices I see posted at most dealers.  If there weren't "deals" on eBay, I'd go without it.

Whynot, if I understand you, you are using the tub daily but only dosing every other day.  Just my opinion, but I like to match the sanitizer with the introduction of contaminants, so I'm not a big fan of using the tub without dosing to kill off what is left behind.  You may want to consider a smaller dose after each use, instead of 3ppm a few times a week.

1) I think I can, I will observe that next. Since we are going into a new week I might see how far the tub will go before it gets cloudy.

2) I agree with this. You said it better than I did.

3) I tend to be cheap and if the cost to benefit ratio isn't high enough then I tend to not want to spend the extra money. I'm still watching a 27", standard def TV because it still plays and I can't justify the money for a larger high def LCD at this point.

I tend to dose the tub whenever I get out and between uses. I have read people do use chlorine the way Chad does and have good reults. I have even read people dose with chlorine only once a week using MPS all the other days with good results ... I don't think it would fly with my water.