Silver Ion and PH

[Gomboman]

I am also having some doubts about the silver ion cartridges (Nature2).  I posted a question in the Water Quality section of this board due to conflicting advice I had recieved from two different people at my dealer.  

The upshot of this seems to be that there is an inherent conflict between using siver ion cartridges on the one hand, and using MetalGone or Stain & Scale for metal control in your tub.  It seems that the metal control chemicals negate whatever beneficial effects the silver could have on your tub.  So if you use these products together, your just wasting your money on the silver ion cartridges.  Based on what Dr. Spa and Waterbear say in my other post, it makes perfect sense that, chemically, this would happen.

Why don't the manufacturers of these systems warn us about this?

CORRECTION: I posted about this issue in the Water Quality section of the Pool and Spa Forum.

I don't know if I agree.  Both King Technology and LeisureTime instruct to use their mineral purifiers with Metal Gon or in the case of King, a metal sequestering agent.  Though it sounds logical that the silver ions would be rendered ineffective with the use of a metal sequestering agent, I don't know if this is actually the case.  Nature2 doesn't seem to address the issue in their instructions.

I emailed Zodiak about using MetalGone with their products but never received a response.

[anne]

Perhaps metal gon is only able to sequester certain metals? (ie, not silver) And stain/scale is not a sequestering agent, is it, except for calcium?

[kervis]

My understanding is that you fill the spa, add the Metal Gon and let it do it's work, sequestering any metals that may precipitate out of solution, fall on your spotless shell, and stain it!

After a good 36 hours, you rinse your filters to remove the sequestered metals that they have captured, and THEN add the N2.

I suppose that the amount of metals in the new water you need to add to top off the tub over a period of 3-4 months doesn't make a big enough difference since it is being so diluted?

And, per the other thread discussing the environmental reprecussions of silver ions on the environment--I made a flip comment without reading the article.  I'll need to go back and check that out.  

[drewstar]

Spider,

Like you , I used the N2 product, and then switched off of it. I saw NO difference in water quality. None. Zippo. Nadda.  I deceided the $25 was better put in my wallet than the dealers.

Some folks claim it works. I've yet to see anything that anecdotal evicedence.  I have been told that the N2 Catridges have a healthy 100% at the dealers.

I think they are nothing more than Magic Voodoo beads.  But decide for yourself, go a few water change outs with out them and see for yourself.

[drewstar]

Oh- on a related side note....


  I am selling  special rocks that keep certain deadly snakes away. You put them in your garden or around your tub. These look like regular rocks, about the size of a softball,  that you would see anywhere.  They are treated with certain minerails that have shown to keep snakes away. They are all natural, and safe for the environment.  Snakes can get into some hot tub shells. Ask yourself, what is your familly's safety worth? More than that, these rocks offer Peace of Mind.

All profits go to charity.

They are guarenteed to work, or your money back.

What do you have to lose?

rocks are $15 each, (+ S&H) and will work up to 7 months.

Snake Safety. Isn't about time you did something for you loved ones? You've spent so much money on your back yard, this small investment can make a word of difference.

If you  or anyone else are interested, please PM me.  They make a wonderful christmas gift.
Volume discounts, and retail inquires welcome.

[tony]

My understanding is that you fill the spa, add the Metal Gon and let it do it's work, sequestering any metals that may precipitate out of solution, fall on your spotless shell, and stain it!

After a good 36 hours, you rinse your filters to remove the sequestered metals that they have captured, and THEN add the N2.

Metal Gon and I would imagine other sequestering products, do not precipitate metals out of solution.  It sort of surrounds or attaches itself to the metals and does not allow them to interact with water, chems, etc or to fall and stain your shell.  They never get filtered out.  There are other metal removing products that cause metals to fall from solution and need to be vacuumed or filtered, but these are different.

I do think that you may be onto something when you say after they are sequestered, then add the N2.

[tony]

Spider,

Like you , I used the N2 product, and then switched off of it. I saw NO difference in water quality. None. Zippo. Nadda.  I deceided the $25 was better put in my wallet than the dealers.

Some folks claim it works. I've yet to see anything that anecdotal evicedence.  I have been told that the N2 Catridges have a healthy 100% at the dealers.

I think they are nothing more than Magic Voodoo beads.  But decide for yourself, go a few water change outs with out them and see for yourself.

I am now finding the same thing with ozone.  I disconnected my ozonator and find my water is holding just fine.  I find that my water does not last between uses nearly as long without a mineral purifier.  I can't go more than a couple of days without my water starting to turn without one.  

[anne]

I think Kervis is totally right. I forgot why I wait 48 hrs to add my N2 after a refill- that is why!!!!!! Good call!

[drewstar]

Spider,

Like you , I used the N2 product, and then switched off of it. I saw NO difference in water quality. None. Zippo. Nadda.  I deceided the $25 was better put in my wallet than the dealers.

Some folks claim it works. I've yet to see anything that anecdotal evicedence.  I have been told that the N2 Catridges have a healthy 100% at the dealers.

I think they are nothing more than Magic Voodoo beads.  But decide for yourself, go a few water change outs with out them and see for yourself.

I am now finding the same thing with ozone.  I disconnected my ozonator and find my water is holding just fine.  I find that my water does not last between uses nearly as long without a mineral purifier.  I can't go more than a couple of days without my water starting to turn without one.  

Vinny and I went around this and couldnt get a measurable, definable answer.

I can go many days without adding anything to my water, (Except the o3) My water has never turned bad on me. The most I was away without looking at the tub was 10 days, and it was fine.  ? ? ? ?  

[kervis]

Oh- on a related side note....


  I am selling  special rocks that keep certain deadly snakes away. You put them in your garden or around your tub. These look like regular rocks, about the size of a softball,  that you would see anywhere.  They are treated with certain minerails that have shown to keep snakes away. They are all natural, and safe for the environment.  Snakes can get into some hot tub shells. Ask yourself, what is your familly's safety worth? More than that, these rocks offer Peace of Mind.

All profits go to charity.

They are guarenteed to work, or your money back.

What do you have to lose?

rocks are $15 each, (+ S&H) and will work up to 7 months.

Snake Safety. Isn't about time you did something for you loved ones? You've spent so much money on your back yard, this small investment can make a word of difference.

If you  or anyone else are interested, please PM me.  They make a wonderful christmas gift.
Volume discounts, and retail inquires welcome.

 

You do really make a great point here.

Perhaps "the fact" that I really have noticed a difference in my water with the N2 coincides with my acquired and applied knowledge over the past 5 months, using less lotion, kids not swimming in it as it is 4 degrees out now....

Dang it!    Well,  I still believe that it is helping me on this winter fill, so I shall continue my observations.  
 
I still believe in Santa too, because if you don't, he doesn't come to your house, you know.

[Richs100]

Richs100, I wil consult with the "BIG GUNS" tomorrow on your stain&scale question. Those GUNS being my in-house water guru and a Biolab chemist.
My first thought, is the stain&scale protects it.

Hey Hottub.pool_boy, were you ever able to check with your water person about our discussion?

Thanks, Rich

[tony]

Vinny and I went around this and couldnt get a measurable, definable answer.

I can go many days without adding anything to my water, (Except the o3) My water has never turned bad on me. The most I was away without looking at the tub was 10 days, and it was fine.  ? ? ? ?  

I should qualify this.  If I shock the spa, I can leave it for up to two weeks.  With my normal one tsp dichlor after use, it only lasts a couple of days before the water turns odorous without a mineral purifier.  With one, the water lasts much much longer.