New Jacuzzi 400 series

[tanstaafl2]

At least it appears to be new. Jacuzzi dealer I went to didn't even mention it or appear to have one as of last week so maybe it is not in stores everywhere yet.

Anyway, I like the layout of both the 480 and 470. The 480 lounger has foot jets the 385 doesn't have and doesn't take the entire side of the tub. Just couldn't be sure I could fit in it without trying it of course. And both have the central hump in the well which I like.

http://tinyurl.com/pxcm5

But not sure why the ozonator would be an option still. I suppose some might not like it but it seems like it would be a useful thing to have and so a high end tub would/should have it standard?

And only 2 one speed pumps at 2.5 hp. I know horsepower isn't everything but I wonder it that would be enough? The 385 has more than that.

At 44" it does seem rather tall, too.

[Duffman]

I look forward to seeing a 480 in person but I'm really dissapointed if this is what they expect to be their new top-end spa. I really thought they got it right with the 385 (minus a few minor gripes). Their new design seems to emulate some good features that their competition highlights and perhaps that's the reason they designed them. I just don't care for the changes in comparison to the 300 series and can only hope they don't discontinue it. If they do plan to keep the 385 around (and perhaps improve a few things) then I have no objection to their bold new experiment.

Just from looking at the pictures and specs, here's my first impressions and general comparison to the J385.

• I'm a little concerned that the 480 only has two pumps but I'll reserve judgement until I can do my "balanced power test"
  
• The foot jets look like the small bullet jets rather then the large whirlpool jets on the 385. Elimination of the larger foot jets is probably the main reason they got away with only 2 pumps. Also, the way they are positioned only allows for 1 bullet jet per seat. I really prefer the setup on the 385.
  
• There's a lot more sculpting in the 400 series which I don't care for. More sculpting means a more constrictive layout and that the seats are less "universal" for different body types. I'd have to wet test one to see for sure. Also, the new filter design and location bumps out a lot more then the 385, rendering that side location rather un-usable as a seat.
  
• Overall the 480 is far more constricted then the 385 for space. Even though the 480 is taller and otherwise has the same dimensions, it holds 100 gallons less (nearly 20% less) then the 385. This may save you a few dollars in heating cost but it's still 20% less space you have to stretch out.
  
• I can't see anything in the specs on controls for the air injection capabilities on the 385 and other Jacuzzi spas prior to 06'. Too bad since I really liked that feature, especially that the 385 had 5 seperate controls for more versatility.
  
• I like that they made the lounge more like the Marquis Epic's adirondack chair, but it means that side seat is not really usable.
  
• The footwell is far smaller then in the 385 which means you get to play footsie more often with other guests. For some this isn't a bad thing  
  
• I can only see one control panel where the 385 has two.
  
• On a very minor note... The unique shape to the shell means you are forced to buy the Jacuzzi cover if you ever need a replacement. I'll probably buy theirs anyway when I need to replace mine but I at least have the option given the more generic dimensions of the 385

Good luck Jacuzzi. We'll see how this one works out for you over the next couple years.

[Duffman]

Since I was comparing my first impression of the 480 to the 385, here a post with my detailed likes and dislikes for the 385 I purchased in December. (Note: These are my personal opinions and I'm not slamming any other hot tubs so nobody get defensive  )

Likes

• The 385 has a great open and comfortable layout and I'm very happy using all 8 seats depending on my mood and relaxation/therapy interests
  
• I love how big the footwell in the 385 is. I can sit flat on the bottom of the spa and stretch my legs out. This is something I couldn't possibly do in most every spa I wet tested
  
• With so many spas if you want jets on your feet you either rob power from the back jets using diverter valves, or on some spas you have to completely turn off power to other jets. With the 385 there is no compromise. You simply turn on all the pumps, relax,  and get a great massage in in every seat, for every back, calf, foot, and whirlpool jet at the same time. Most spas I wet tested required use of the diverter values to get a decent massage for different areas. Using the diverter values serves to make targeted seats feel even more intense. I love it!
  
• A number of spas have 3 pumps but having one dedicated to the foot jets is a feature I love. I really disliked diverting power from back jets to get a foot massage with other spas.
  
• The air injection system is rather unique to the Jacuzzi spas and I like it more and more. Nex time you look at a hot tub, take not of how many "jets" are dedicated for air bubbles. With a jacuzzi there are no "wasted" air bubble jets. Instead, you can enable air to be injected in the water jet stream for any of the jets in the spa. I find that the jets provide an even deeper massage with them enabled and I really like it. Also, in the 385 Jacuzzi did a great job putting 5 dedicated air injection buttons all around the spa (4 seat zones plus one for the foot/whirlpool jets). This means you have the option in most any seat to have this feature enabled or disabled. I just think it's a great feature. My only gripe is that the buttons could have been designed better. If you push them from an angle, they can stick. It's easy to correct it when it happens but still.
  
• When I wet tested the Marquis Epic I was impressed with their "Therapy Tower," but I find the whirlpool side and foot jets on the 385 are just as beneficial. The location of the three foot jets are ideal for feet, ankles, knees, legs, and even hips. Since the footwell is so large I sometimes sit on the floor and can position all three foot jets on my leg and knee simultanously. It really works great for me.
  
• In my wet test I gave full marks to the Master LSX for intensity in their Extreme Therapy seat. While I still think that spa seat is the best I wet tested, I find the 385's therapy seat comes close. If you want a strong, deep massage the 385 will not dissapoint.
  
• I didn't realize it was there when I wet tested the 385, but there are two control panels. The primary control panel on the front and a secondary panel at the back (behind the waterfall) to control the lights and pumps. This allows for easy reach to the controls from 6 of the 8 seats (4 corners and 2 side seats) without having to get up or move.
  
• Most hot tub waterfalls are just for show (e.g., water pours out in front of the filter) but the 385 has two of them which are perfectly positioned to allow water to cascade over your shoulders. I didn't think about this when I bought the spa but I do enjoy sitting in front of them.
  
• I have rarely met a lounge chair that I liked in a hot tub but the 385's has grown on me. Since it positions the back and hips at a high sitting angle, I don't feel like I'm floating out of it. If it were designed like the Marquis Epic's adirondack chair I would be even more comfortable, but then I would lose that seat under the waterfall which is also good for a semi-cooldown seat since it is fairly shallow.
  
• In my original wet test I commented on sliding out of one of the seats. This happened because I was wearing a slick fabric swimsuit in the therapy seat with the jets diverted to full and with the air injection on    Since taking delivery I have not had any issues and quickly got used to the high power settings.

Dislikes

• Removing the maintenance panel is a major pain in the you-know-what. There are a huge number of screws to remove. Fortunately I'll rarely have to deal with that.
  
• The air injection buttons can stick if you push them in from an angle. Easy to correct but still frustrating
  
• Some have reported that the diverter valves can pop off. I found this to be true if you pull up on it while adjusting the valve. Since I adjust the valves side-to-side, this has never happened. Perhaps a lock or extra resistance would keep this from happening but Jacuzzi did design them to come off for cleaning the shell underneath.
  
• The filter cover in the 385 slides into place but does not have any resistance or lock to keep it in place. When reseating it after cleaning the filter, sometimes it will rise up 1/2-1 inch. I have to play with it for a minute to get it in place.
  
• Jacuzzi really needs some flat or even better, recessed areas around the spa to place drinks. Using the top of the two waterfalls works well though and I bought a bar that is mounted to the side of the spa to take that issue.
  

[tanstaafl2]

Good point about the filter taking up a seat for the most part. With the lounger change that does affect two seats that the 385 has. The 385 does a good job providing 8 seats if you ever needed that many while the 480 is more for 6 at most. But I didn't care for the lounger in the 385 and found it hard to stay in the corner seats against strong pressure with few places to lock your feet. The bump in the well of the 480 helps solve that and I hope will make foot room in the well, despite being smaller, less of an issue too.

Especially since the one I just bought has a smilar foot well design! I tested that and it seemed to be very comfortable, especially for 4 people.

And an excellent point about the rounded shape of one side making cover replacement more difficult. Didn't notice that at first.

[Snowbird]

Duff,

As usual you are very thorough.  I hope you aren't an IRS agent who is doing my next audit.

Regarding the filter cover, we had the same problem.  It actually rose above the tub rim.  I originally thought low water level caused it to lift.  If it is too low, it will not be able to draw enough water in through the skimmer and it will starve the pumps and draw water around the cover edges.  (If the waterfall surges when pump 1 is on, the water level is too low.)

So we put more water in, but it still lifted, although not quite as high.  The dealer sent their tech out and he replaced the clips on both the cover and the tub.  Now it only lifts when the level gets too low.  It serves as an automatic water level alert.

You are correct about the access panel – what a pain.  To make it worse, my cover lifts from left to right as you face the control panel. So there are about 20 more screws to take out.  I was concerned about mounting the cover lifter to the panels even though the dealer said it was okay.  I mounted wolmanized 2x12’s between the frame members using pocket screws.  Now the lifter screws go through the panels and into a beefy piece of wood.

I have the same problem as you with the air buttons and diverter valves.  No big deal really.  If the diverter handles become a problem I will put a very small dab of silicone sealer in the handle and that should resolve the issue.  It only happens when I am trying to change the diverters from an awkward position.

You hit the nail on the head about flat surfaces.  If the corners weren’t sloped, it would be perfect.

And you’ve got to be a big guy to sit on the floor and not drown.  I do that when I watch TV with my back to the waterfall side.  I have a weight belt that holds me down.  I almost fell asleep last night but SWMBO was in too and woke me up.

Life is beautiful.  

tanstaafl2,

Congrats & good luck with your new tub.  Wife and I wet tested tubs with foot domes and we felt they made maneuvering difficult and maybe dangerous.  Fortunately the 385 solves the problem as Duff pointed out.  Please be careful with the foot dome.

[tanstaafl2]

tanstaafl2,

Congrats & good luck with your new tub.  Wife and I wet tested tubs with foot domes and we felt they made maneuvering difficult and maybe dangerous.  Fortunately the 385 solves the problem as Duff pointed out.  Please be careful with the foot dome.

We will certainly keep that in mind. We did spend nearly 30 minutes in the tub before we bought it. Dealer let us in a little before opening and so we didn't interfer with any other customer's. He was VERY patient!  

I felt like the readily accessable foot jets from every seat was worth it, not to mention the central volcano jet. One of our problems with the 385 and others was the inability to stay comfortably in place in the corner seats with strong pressure, especially for my girlfriend who is on the short side. And she really wanted foot jets easy for her to reach. Being a fairly good sized tub with a fairly open configuration I felt comfortable moving around in it myself.

But only time will tell if it proves a problem!

[Duffman]

time will tell if it proves a problem!

Congratulations on your purchase! Your observations suggest you purchased a great spa for your needs just as the 385 was the best spa for my own.

I certainly acknowledge that my observations only relate to my personal preferences, and were not meant to suggest that one spa was "better" then the other.

I hope to read about your opinions after it's delivered and you have had time break it in. By the way... I'm sure many of us would be interested in knowing what it cost and what region you live in since there are higher surcharges in many areas.

[dpgtech]

Duffman, very thorough analysis and opinion that obviously comes from a well reasoned point of view.   I  am glad you are happy with your tub, the 385 is a great spa.  the 480 is also an awesome spa.  I just finished wet testing it on our showroom floor last nite.  the jets do not disapoint IMHO.  the lounge is awesome i am 5'7'' and fit very well. the two large foot jets definitely give a great massage. it may not be that comfortable for some over 6'.  the water falls are excellent.  they will cascade over your shoulders and there are two nice jets for the back right underneath.  the "champagne jet" in the middle of the foot dome is an 80/20 air/water jet that gives a very bubbly feeling jet to the center of the spa.  the lighting is dimmable to three different intensities.  there is a light in the center foot dome and also in the step in area.  The head rest's are positonable up and down.  it really is different looking.  It is a great spa. if you get a chance, get in one and try it out. but  I also feel that for the price difference between the 480 and 385 the 385 is a lot of spa for about 2500-3500 less than the 480.  Jacuzzi is continuing to produce all 300 series models. just a few of my observations to follow up your analysis  

[tanstaafl2]

I hope to read about your opinions after it's delivered and you have had time break it in. By the way... I'm sure many of us would be interested in knowing what it cost and what region you live in since there are higher surcharges in many areas.

I will most definately plan to post an initial report and follow up down the road. Reflections, as you may know, is an additional line by DM industries who also make Vita and my impression is that they are a "complimentary" line with perhaps a few less "gadgets" like the wave seat in the Rendezvous. Otherwise the construction and guts of the spa, pumps, heater, etc are the same I am told. Don't know if this is  100% true but it looked pretty much the same on the inside to me when I checked under the hood.

In any case as I have previously noted I had a good rapport with the dealer and placed some value on that.

Once I made a decision I made it clear I was in the market and not just shopping around. I asked for the dealers best price and did not try to negotiate further even though perhaps I may have been able to get a little more off, who knows. I am in the Atlanta area and ended up with a price of $9000 for a brand new from the factory '06 top of the Reflections line Ultra Plus series Granada in the colors of my choice (Sierra/Redwood), which was less than the initial asking price and similar to or less than other spas we had tested that were similar in size and features. That included delivery, setup, initial chemicals, steps, lifter, cover and the upgrade to the "deluxe" LED lighting package that has multiple LED's on the sides in addition to the main light and does all the doo dad color changes.  I do not know if this was a "good" price for this spa as I have no reference price to compare it to. And as I noted previously they were very tolerant and let me wet test at least 5 different models before I made a decision.

In fact no dealer that I went to had less than at least two spas wet although this was the only dealer I actually requested to wet test models that were previously dry. They had no problem granting my request.