Insulation

[shane]

 
OK, I am confused.  What is the best insulation out there?  I live in Wisconsin and would expect the temps to be rather cold in the winter.  One dealer bashes full foam, the other bashes "non full foam."  What is the real answer?

[J._McD]

Insulation is heat retention.  Search the subject in recent threads but if you're looking for a short cut, use your common sense.  When you loose heat, your heater goes on, that uses electricity and that is what you pay for.

The manufacturer is faced with a decision, make a good spa and do good things to it EVEN if it COST more to make.  Right away, he is at a handicap because his price is probably going to be higher.

Then there is the other choice that didn't spend the extra money to do the little extras that you have to do to keep the heat in and the salesperson tells you that you don't need it because he dosen't have it and why would you want it anyway because.....(create fear). :-/

Bottom line, your choice.  The Top Leading manufacturers seem to be all solid foam filled, I guess the others are cheaper then because they didn't spend the money to do it to their spa, does that make their spa better, cheaper or more costly to retain heat?

[shane]

Sooo...that said, what is best?  I am not looking to go "cheap."  I sell commercial insurance and don't sell on price.  Nor do I buy other things on price.  I am willing to pay more for quality.  Sooo...is full foam higher quality than non full foam?  Dealers truly have me confused.  

[J._McD]

How much heat will you loose and are you willing to pay extra to replace it.  If money is not the issue, you can flip a coin.

Pay more to get better and buy solid foam,  

or Pay more to replace lost heat,  :-/

that leaves all of the choices open for you.

[Gomboman]

Shane, all the big name manufacturers (Hotspring, Sundance, Marquis, D-1, Caldera, etc.) insulate their spas differently but very efficiently.  You don't have anything to worry about if you stay with a name brand company.  Stay away from the Garage builders that don't use insulation....

[Brewman]

 On a good quality spa, it doesn't make that much difference.
Brewman

[Tman122]

Insulation method (as long as it is insulated) should not be a deciding factor when purchasing a spa.

[Mike134]

My humble thoughts,

Both are good when leaving the factory from a quality spa maker.  Problem comes in during installation and after repairs.

The Termopane style will work well IF the cabinet is properly resealed after the electric is hooked up.  For it to work well there must be no air leakage into the shell just like your thermopane windows must not have leakage.  The top bottom and all sides of the exterior must be insulated and sealed well.

Question I have is when you want to get air mixed into the water were does that air come from?  If it's from inside the heated space then cold outside air must be allowed inside to makeup the lost air otherwise there would soon be a vacumn created.

[fletch49]

Bottom line, your choice.  The Top Leading manufacturers seem to be all solid foam filled, I guess the others are cheaper then because they didn't spend the money to do it to their spa, does that make their spa better, cheaper or more costly to retain heat?

no kidding...well then, I'm off to Home Depot to buy foam in a can....and lots of it  

[autoplay]

Heat rises,therefor,I would also invest in a high quality cover,1 that is very thick and will help retain the heat.

Here in Florida,it's not a big deal,as our winters barely see 50 degrees.

Stick with the big boys as far as manufacturers.....Hot-Springs,Caldera,Marquis,D-1,Sundance,etc.

WET-TEST !!!

[Mendocino101]

I agree those above if done right both work well.....However I have asked before and have never heard an answer as to why what many consider to be the leaders ...Hot Springs..Marquis....Sundance....etc...all are full foam there are a few other good brands that do use the thermo design but the majority of the most commonly respected leaders are full foam and to note.....It does cost more to build a full foam spa.

[ebirrane]

Well, I'm certainly not a hot tub manufacturer, but here is my guess...

thermopane is harder to get right.

There are many styles of thermopane, so lumping them all as just thermopane is a bit of a misnomer.  What they all have in common, though, is they try and make a heated air space to keep things warm/hot.  

I would imagine, and speaking in very broad terms, keeping an area sealed with *air* (plus any venting needed for the motors, mind you) is just *harder* to keep consistent over the years than just blasting foam in the tub. Well, maybe not  just blasting. Chas posted a detailed  walk through the HS foaming method, which was quite an eye opener!

Granted, foam is probably more expensive to do right, but it is very hard to argue with its results from an insulation point of view. If you absolutely don't want to worry about insulation buy amajor brand full foam.  If you want something more cutting edge and feel lucky, grab a thermopane.

Assuming quality manufacturers, neither will freeze your tub, and the cost difference per month in operation costs shouldn't be so large (one would hope) to make adifference.

-Ed

[Tman122]

Well, I'm certainly not a hot tub manufacturer, but here is my guess...

What they all have in common, though, is they try and make a heated air space to keep things warm/hot.  
-Ed

Now the only problem I have with this statement and I am only saying it to clarify. 24 hours in a day and 4-8 needed for filtration. That leaves the majority of the day the heated air space is not working because you have no heat source except the water which will be drawn to the cooler side walls and heat loss will be high. If using and advertising the pump motor as the heat source the 20 hours a day it is not running will need to be taken into acount.

[J._McD]

Question I have is when you want to get air mixed into the water were does that air come from?  If it's from inside the heated space then cold outside air must be allowed inside to makeup the lost air otherwise there would soon be a vacumn created.

It seems we have several unanswered questions.  Do we create a vacuumn or does the air remain sealed when we draw "heated air" in through the jet venturri's or the air injector system.  Is this "really" heated air or is it exterior ambient air that is not "heated air"?  If we suck the heated air, we would have to be drawing a vacummn unless it is replaced with ambient air that must be reheated.

Yet again, "where does the heat come from?

Is it really the motors that do need and get air exchange, then again is that air "locked too", or could it be the plumbing also?  If the water is at 102° in the spa, what is the temperature of the plumbing in the thermopane air space?  Could this ALSO be a heat source to heat the air space?  :-/???


Why then do manufacturers have a warranty exclusion for temperatures outside of the range of 34° and 104°? :-/  

Obviously, 32° is when ice begins to form?  To me, that means if I lose power in the winter and something freezes, it is not covered by the warranty, even if power was lost because of a warranty failure?

[ebirrane]

Why then do manufacturers have a warranty exclusion for temperatures outside of the range of 34° and 104°? :-/  

Obviously, 32° is when ice begins to form?  To me, that means if I lose power in the winter and something freezes, it is not covered by the warranty, even if power was lost because of a warranty failure?

Whoa!  What warranty excludes temps outside of 34 and 104? I'd never heard that and, if true, is a pretty powerful datapoint!

-Ed