General question on enzyme products;

[bachman]

Seen a few threads and posts and nothing really gave me a general overall view or use application.
-Not looking to stir up controversy.
-Asking due to some cloudiness but not necessarily a 'problem'.

I've read that these break down some contaminants and help clear water so I'm wondering if they are a bit more specialty for issues that our regular chemistry basics may not overcome.

Also read they don't really replace sanitizing nor should they be used that way BUT can work with the other products and not create a problem.

Lastly, if I wish to try it, is there a schedule for how to integrate it into use weekly as a maint type thing or is it mostly use only as or when needed ? Welcome any input from users who use this , have tried it or had success or problems and can share some info. Thank you !

[swilly1000]

I've been using Spa Marvel since day 1, which was only three months ago. Not trying to stir up controversy (lol) but here's Chris Wheatley's instructions for the product:

SPA MARVEL QUICK AND EASY DIRECTIONS

Cleanse your tub (not necessary for a new tub)

1. Remove Filters
2. Pour the full bottle of CLEANSER in your tub
3. Run your jets on high for 1-2 hours then allow to circulate for 23 hours.
4. Drain and rinse thoroughly, clean the cover.
5. Refill the tub

Spa Marvel Startup

1. Heat water to desired temp
2. Prime pumps after turning on power(turn both pumps on high speed)
3. Run pumps for 20 minutes
4. Use test strips to test water
5. Balance alkalinity to 150 (turn jets on for a few minutes after adding Alka Boost each time)
6. Run pumps for 5 min
7. Balance ph to 7.6 – 8.2
8. Fill floating dispenser with chlorine tablets and set to the first break in the threads (see image)
9. Add Full bottle of Spa Marvel, Run pumps for 30 Min (Wait the 30 minutes before getting in)

Weekly

1. Make Sure floating dispenser always has chlorine tabs in it
2. put 1 capfuls of shock (1cap/4-6 people) or at the end of each day used..
3. use test strips provided to test water 1 time per week and balance alkalinity and ph if needed

** Add Spa Marvel Water Treatment every three months.

**RINSE YOUR FILTERS WEEKLY (not the mineral filter)

**EVERY 8-10 WEEKS SOAK ONLY THE BLUE FILTERS IN A PLASTIC PAIL WITH THE FILTER CLEANER FOR 24 HOURS (DOING THIS YOU SHOULD GET 12 TO 18 MONTHS OUT OF YOUR FILTERS). NEVER SOAK THE GREY COLORED FILTER (THIS HAS TO BE REPLACED EVERY 6-8 MONTHS DEPENDING ON USAGE).

**IGNORE THE CHLORINE or bromine LEVEL ON YOUR TEST STRIPS, THE SPA MARVEL REGULATES THE CHLORINE AS NECESSARY SO THE LEVEL SHOWING ON THE STRIPS WILL NEVER BE ACCURATE

** IF YOU MUST WEAR CLOTHES IN THE TUB PLEASE WASH WITH MINIMAL AMOUNTS OF DETERGENT AND ALWAYS DO A SECOND RINSE, THE JETS ARE POWERFUL THEREFORE THEY PULL SOAP FROM THE CLOTHES AND IT’LL MAKE YOUR WATER FOAMY!!

**IT’S SMART TO ONLY TEST YOUR WATER ONCE PER WEEK. ENVIRONMENT AND CONDITIONS CAN SLIGHTLY ALTER THE PH AND ALKALINITY BUT THIS CORRECTS ITSELF WHEN THE JETS ARE RUNNING. YOU DON’T WANT TO OVERDOSE YOUR WATER WITH CHEMICALS.

[Tman122]

If you take the chlorine out the enzymes won't work. But if you take the enzymes out the chlorine will work.

Skip the enzymes.

[bud16415]

I am fully in the camp of using a sanitizer and following the long tested method of using chlorine. I myself use dichlor and then switch to household bleach once I have proper stabilizer levels. I see no use for enzymes.

That being said I have two good friends that both bought hot tubs from the same place and he recommends some enzyme only stuff. They fill their tub with water and with an eye dropper put something like 22 or 27 drops of this stuff (different size tubs) into the tub and do nothing for a month. At the end of a month they clean filter and add drops again. They have both had their tubs for years and they both only change their water once a year. Every time I have ever looked at their water it is clear as can be smells great and they claim is easy on the skin.

I have no idea how this stuff can work and I have read 100s of accounts how it can’t work.

Swilly1000 posted above about using a floating dispenser with chlorine in it and I know of no tablet form of chlorine that is being sold for hot tubs only bromine. If they could tell us the name of the chlorine they use I would be interested. Or even what the label says is in it.     

[d00nut]

Swilly1000 posted above about using a floating dispenser with chlorine in it and I know of no tablet form of chlorine that is being sold for hot tubs only bromine. If they could tell us the name of the chlorine they use I would be interested. Or even what the label says is in it.   

I like spa marvel.  I've tried it, and it seems to help.  Makes the water feel really soft and it really helped my foaming issue.  I would not recommend floating tabs of chlorine.  Every manufacturer says it will void their warranty as this is typically Trichlor.  I'm still of the opinion that dichlor is best, with sodium hypochlorite as a good alternative depending on how long the water change is.

Don't use tabs kids... no bueno

[The Wizard of Spas]

I work for a manufacturer.  Our stance is:  Maintain proper water chemistry at all times and use an EPA-registered sanitizer.  There are many ways to accomplish it.  Some prefer a certain way and others prefer something else.  Hence- your varied responses to your question.

There is no manufacturer that dictates what water sanitization method you should use, so long as you're staying within the guidelines of EPA-registered sanitizer and maintaining proper water chemistry at all times.  (Though- if a manufacturer has a built-in salt system that is proprietary, I can see that being something that they push).  There are manufacturers that will tell you what not to use (tri-chlor tabs, biguianides, etc), but nobody will stump for this method or that method, as they have numerous dealers who all either have their set ways, have the exclusive on a product in their market, or get a deal on a specific product. 

Furthermore, not every person has the same water.  Tap water varies from city to city and its contents may dictate how you treat your tub.  And well water is a whole different sort than most standard tap waters.

So as long as you're within the parameters of good water chemistry and are using some form of proper sanitization, the rest is completely up to you, and what you prefer.  I hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.

[swilly1000]

I like spa marvel.  I've tried it, and it seems to help.  Makes the water feel really soft and it really helped my foaming issue.

For sure.  My water is really soft too.

[bachman]

Thanks all for the responses. So much of these 'things' are likely qualified by;  "This is what works for me, Your mileage may vary ...." I do understand and appreciate those references. Set up is- 2004/5 Marquis Reward Silver Anniversary 240V with spa Frog in line, mineral/bromine at 102*

We (Colorado Springs) get real winters and real summers with temps below zero and upward of 85 and 90*.  City water seems good and we've had the tub going now since Oct 28th or so with no problems or issues and using supplies I was gifted with the tub from orig owner.
No real concerns per sanitizer as my level seems stable and appropriate.  Seen a few cloudy water days and a few sudsing up here and there (smallish white clean-looking bubbles only on high pump output) but we are learning as we go. We mostly soak or do lower pump setting anyways....   

Reading between the lines here just a little bit, it sounds like basic chemistry , keep it simple and due diligence for troubleshooting rather than looking for magic products to cover up issues. If that sums it up pretty close, I'm a fan of this this concept. It seems the less we add to the tub, the easier to maintain and troubleshoot. I really don't want an impressive looking collection of chemicals on my shelves. 

*I will admit bud has piqued my interest with the example of his friends. I'd be very interested in the exact product they use, item or reorder number, name , manufacturer etc... and/or their entire menu of stuff they use along with it. It sounds too simple and too good to be be true, just the reason I'd love to investigate further.

From here on my plan is to do the biofilm type deep clean when we get to the first water change since it was not done when we first set it up (didn't know any better). After that, I'll either stay the course with the chemistry as set up or try something slightly different if an easier too good to be true story sells me to consider on a trial basis. As of now, I'm happy with the way it is and can't think of much that could be easier or more simple.

Thanks again for your time and comments,
Happy and Safe New Year holiday and beyond to All !!

~b

[bud16415]

When we got our tub it came with inline frog bromine and minerals. I was struggling with getting it stable and the dealer wasn’t much help. I was talking about it to Ray at work as I knew he had a tub and he told me he threw it all out and converted his tub to salt and a saltron mini and never had a problem. He said ask Lee he has a tub. Lee said he’s had a tub for 20 years and only adds a little white stuff each day. He said he has a 40 pound bag that has lasted him years. I asked him how much white stuff and he showed me how much he puts in his hand. Came to find out it was pool chlorine of some kind. He told me to talk to Reed. Reed suggested this 27 drops of enzymes per month and then the folks here told me not to trust that. Reed suggested another person and on and on. In the end I had 10 methods all different but similar and no one seemed to be stressed about it. Some people told me they never check it just go by eye. A while back I was at my dermatologist and asked him about dry skin issue and mentioned we have a tub and he said it likely wasn’t the tub and he has one also. So I asked him. He said he only uses Clorox. Yet another answer.

I’m beginning to believe everyone finds a different path.

If I run into the folks using enzymes I will ask for more information. I’m retired now and don’t see them often.

I’m 99% happy with daily dichlor and switching to bleach when stabilizer hits 40-50ppm with the addition of 7 lbs of salt at fill up. I still would like to try the after market free standing salt gen at some point. 

[bachman]

bud,

That's a funny story, yet characterizing the way things really are as we absorb bits and pieces here and there.  Appreciate your input just the same and I am absolutely confident your word of mouth variations are just what I'd get as I talk to more and more folks.

Thanking the Lord this isn't life - threatening stuff LOL !!

[Sam]

I've been using Spa Marvel since day 1, which was only three months ago. Not trying to stir up controversy (lol) but here's Chris Wheatley's instructions for the product:

SPA MARVEL QUICK AND EASY DIRECTIONS

Cleanse your tub (not necessary for a new tub)

1. Remove Filters
2. Pour the full bottle of CLEANSER in your tub
3. Run your jets on high for 1-2 hours then allow to circulate for 23 hours.
4. Drain and rinse thoroughly, clean the cover.
5. Refill the tub

Spa Marvel Startup

1. Heat water to desired temp
2. Prime pumps after turning on power(turn both pumps on high speed)
3. Run pumps for 20 minutes
4. Use test strips to test water
5. Balance alkalinity to 150 (turn jets on for a few minutes after adding Alka Boost each time)
6. Run pumps for 5 min
7. Balance ph to 7.6 – 8.2
8. Fill floating dispenser with chlorine tablets and set to the first break in the threads (see image)
9. Add Full bottle of Spa Marvel, Run pumps for 30 Min (Wait the 30 minutes before getting in)

Weekly

1. Make Sure floating dispenser always has chlorine tabs in it
2. put 1 capfuls of shock (1cap/4-6 people) or at the end of each day used..
3. use test strips provided to test water 1 time per week and balance alkalinity and ph if needed

** Add Spa Marvel Water Treatment every three months.

**RINSE YOUR FILTERS WEEKLY (not the mineral filter)

**EVERY 8-10 WEEKS SOAK ONLY THE BLUE FILTERS IN A PLASTIC PAIL WITH THE FILTER CLEANER FOR 24 HOURS (DOING THIS YOU SHOULD GET 12 TO 18 MONTHS OUT OF YOUR FILTERS). NEVER SOAK THE GREY COLORED FILTER (THIS HAS TO BE REPLACED EVERY 6-8 MONTHS DEPENDING ON USAGE).

**IGNORE THE CHLORINE or bromine LEVEL ON YOUR TEST STRIPS, THE SPA MARVEL REGULATES THE CHLORINE AS NECESSARY SO THE LEVEL SHOWING ON THE STRIPS WILL NEVER BE ACCURATE

** IF YOU MUST WEAR CLOTHES IN THE TUB PLEASE WASH WITH MINIMAL AMOUNTS OF DETERGENT AND ALWAYS DO A SECOND RINSE, THE JETS ARE POWERFUL THEREFORE THEY PULL SOAP FROM THE CLOTHES AND IT’LL MAKE YOUR WATER FOAMY!!

**IT’S SMART TO ONLY TEST YOUR WATER ONCE PER WEEK. ENVIRONMENT AND CONDITIONS CAN SLIGHTLY ALTER THE PH AND ALKALINITY BUT THIS CORRECTS ITSELF WHEN THE JETS ARE RUNNING. YOU DON’T WANT TO OVERDOSE YOUR WATER WITH CHEMICALS.

As tman said, if you remove the spa marvel from this setup it would still work perfectly.  You are using a floating dispenser and shock after each use, so honestly this is even more work than a standard floating dispenser system which really only requires shocking every 1-2 weeks.  From my experience, these systems don't do much outside of making the water feel a bit "softer", which may be a perfectly good reason to use them.  Anything beyond that is just marketing in my experience, as evidenced by the fact that they want you to still have a floating chlorine tab and shock after each use.

And as stated by others, if that really is a chlorine tablet, you probably voided your warranty.  Trichlor is a terrible thing to use in a hot tub and is listed in most warranties for a reason.  It's a very acidic form of chlorine and is meant to dissolve at the proper rate in colder water.  Floaters tend to gravitate towards the filter area in most spas since that is where the suction is.  This means that heavily chlorinated, highly acidic water goes straight to your heater.  The heater tube is stainless in pretty much every single spa, which will just rust out and leak near the terminals most likely.

I strongly advise the use of some other sanitize over trichlor.  People who use it may think, "I've used it for a year with no problems so this must be b.s.".  The reality is that the corrosion does not happen overnight.  Maybe your heater will last 2 years instead of 10 or something along those lines.  Well if it fails under warranty, when you dealer sends the heater back to the manufacturer they will almost certainly deny the claim.

[bud16415]

bud,

That's a funny story, yet characterizing the way things really are as we absorb bits and pieces here and there.  Appreciate your input just the same and I am absolutely confident your word of mouth variations are just what I'd get as I talk to more and more folks.

Thanking the Lord this isn't life - threatening stuff LOL !!

At first I was baffled by all the methods but as Sam mentioned above I think it boils down to most people with the very unscientific approach are successful because they are over sanitizing in some form or another. The guy that I humorously mentioned using a palm full of something he had in a big bag also told me he lets the single neighbor woman use his tub in the evening for skinny dipping, and she also sanitizes the tub. So he has two people caring for the tub and no one ever testing it. So I guess they keep adding until it burns their eyes and then back off.

Lots of places use bleach in very high concentrations for cleaning and people get it on their skin and normally don’t have issues. I’m sure the human body can tolerate much higher ppm than are needed to keep a tub healthy. It’s just hard on the tub and hard on the body and a waste of product.

My problem getting started was just the opposite I was attempting to keep my level absolutely at the minimum amount and in doing that I had no room to drop at all, and when it did I had problems. Hotels and public spas do the opposite and run super high. After owning a hot tub I will no longer ever use a public tub again. I’m even careful with using friends and families tubs that I don’t trust they maintain correctly.       

[swilly1000]

For greater certainty, I don't follow those instructions vis a vis chlorine tablets. I was interested in trying it until I read all the advice here not to use them.  I use dichlor after most soaks.

I think I may oversanitized at some point because I had a high cyuranic acid reading (over 159) when I got my water tested two days ago. I read that the only way to rectify that is to dump the water but it's only three months old and I was hoping to get to six months before changing it.  Should I be changing the water now?

My ph was a little high at 8.4 and alkalinity was 158 so I added some ph decreaser.  I don't think the test strips are distinct enough to give a good reading as to whether I've properly balanced the water.  I'm always unsure because the colour changes in the scale are gradual and the strip is not always clear cut. I feel like it's bit more art vs science at home using test strips.

[bud16415]

For greater certainty, I don't follow those instructions vis a vis chlorine tablets. I was interested in trying it until I read all the advice here not to use them.  I use dichlor after most soaks.

I think I may oversanitized at some point because I had a high cyuranic reading (over 159) when I got my water tested two days ago. I read that the only way to rectify that is to dump the water but it's only three months old and I was hoping to get to six months before changing it.  Should I be changing the water now?

My ph was a little high at 8.4 and alkalinity was 158 so I added some ph decreaser.  I don't think the test strips are distinct enough to give a good reading as to whether I've properly balanced the water.  I'm always unsure because the colour changes in the scale are gradual and the strip is not always clear cut. I feel like it's bit more art vs science at home using test strips.

What I do sometimes especially in the cold winter months to get things lowered like you have is to do a partial fill. Drain the tub down a third to half and then refill it.

They say the solution to pollution is delusion.

The problem you have with high CYA is because CYA / stabilizer is added to dichlor for swimming pools. Sunlight breaks it down and it needs replenished. In a covered hot tub there is little sunlight so it builds up. That’s why when I reach 50ppm I switch to liquid bleach. It is cheaper and has no CYA. If it drops down to 40ppm I will use dichlor for a few days and when it hits 50ppm switch back to bleach. Shock about every other week with non chlorine shock.