HotSprings "ACE" salt water generator

[chem geek]

It is XXXXXXXXXXXX that talked about cells going bad, but it didn't say they would have to be replaced on every fill, just that they were going bad at varying frequency for different people.  It's obvious that there were more frequent problems at first, that some of them got resolved with some changes, that some problems may be due to a lack of proper owner maintenance (keeping CH levels low using Vanishing Act, for example), and that some other problems may remain.  Like any product, problems will be a statistical thing and it does appear that the rate is dropping (i.e. the product is improving).  Read the thread for the full scoop.

Edit note: Sorry Chem Geek, as much as I appreciate your contributions here, the owners don't want direct links to competing forums.

[chem geek]

Edit note: Sorry Chem Geek, as much as I appreciate your contributions here, the owners don't want direct links to competing forums.

No problem.  I'll just have to remember to cut and paste or summarize relevant portions as needed.

[Chiadrum]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and in the very early stages of purchasing a hot tub.  I tried one at a resort and it was nice but the chlorine was a turn off.  I know there are bromine systems out there as well as ozinators.  HotSprings was the only system I saw that came with either the ozinator system or, the salt water generator.  Does anybody have first hand experience with the HotSprings salt system? I'm sure there are after market products but I didn't see any other big name hot tubs that come with a salt system.  Thanks

I am sure I'll get crucified here but I have been running a chemical free product called CareFree Spa.Too early to do a comprehensive review,just running it for about 2.5 weeks now but so far it has been as advertised and the support has been excellent.They even called me when I ordered online to have a chat and make sure that I was ordering what I needed.
It is a process,you have to run a Citrus based purge and refill the tub then bleach the water and add the product but right now we are odor and foam free with super clear water.No irritation or itching.I am very pleased so far.
My stepfather had a spa for about 10 years and he ran a similar product with no issues.He is one of those guys that can't tell you the name of the product but good to hear someone using the same concept long term.
People will bark about the EPA not approving such products and excuse my cynical attitude but I am pretty sure the EPA does NOT have my best interests at heart!There are several of these chemical free based companies that have been around for quite some time with no negative reviews so anyway just a suggestion.Food for thought.
Happy tubbing.

[chem geek]

As noted in this link CareFree Spa Naturel is enzymes.  These will accelerate the breakdown of bather waste, essentially having the oxygen in water oxidize them.  Note what they say about algae:

Algae - Naturel Spa is not an algaecide. Spas with covers and using Naturel Spa according to instructions, without the regular addition of toxic chemicals, have shown no algae growth in water with temperatures above 80º F and where regular circulation and filtration are present. Spas without covers will normally have algae growth on the walls and in the water. Algaecides are required in these cases, and are compatible with our formula.

So with exposure to sunlight, algae will grow in the water in spite of their product being in the water.  Algae are harder to kill than most bacteria and they can't claim to kill bacteria since they are not EPA registered because they don't kill bacteria quickly enough to pass EPA DIS/TSS-12, but that does not mean that they do not inhibit bacterial growth.  Interestingly, with regard to bacteria they say the following:

Bacteria - Spa water treated according to our recommendations stays safe, clean and healthy. Our customers spas are periodically chosen at random and tested for E. Coli, Streptococcus, Staphylococcus Aureus, Pseudomonas Aeruginosa, Legionella Pneumophilia, yeast, fungi, molds, and mildews. Coliform tests are routinely performed on heavily-used spa water. Water temperature is maintained at approximately 100 F° and the spa is covered during non-use periods. The Coliform test searches for colon bacillus and other disease generating bacteria stemming from fecal and urine contamination.

where they say they tested for coliform bacteria, but they didn't give the actual results which seems very strange (they refer to "tests" at the bottom of their page with no coliforms, but don't indicate if under any bather load nor with nitrates or phosphates).  As they note on their website,

Naturel Spa can not claim to "reduce, inhibit, mitigate, destroy or abate any pests", (plants, animals or bacteria) "either by itself or in combination with any other substance" (the EPA definition of a pesticide). The EPA does not allow any product not registered as a pesticide to make this claim, under penalty of civil prosecution.

As for reviews of non-chemical products, by which I presume you mean non-halogen products since all these products contain chemicals, on another forum I put together a table of hot tub incidents of hot tub rash, hot tub lung, and Legionnaire's Disease and communicated directly with many of the people who had these problems.  Though the most common cause was using too little or no disinfectant, some were using "alternative" systems including EcoOne, Aquafinesse, and copper ions.  CareFree Spa was not in that list, and none of the products I mentioned have enzymes (EcoOne has coconut clarifiers, Aquafinesse has surfactants that dislodge biofilms, copper kills some bacteria slowly, but not fecal bacteria).

I suspect that the enzymes in CareFree Spa might inhibit bacterial growth, but probably don't kill bacteria very quickly which is why they cannot get EPA approval as a disinfectant for spas (or pools).

If you wanted a non-halogen system that is EPA approved so is known to kill bacteria quickly, then there is Nature2 which is silver ions with non-chlorine shock (MPS).