Beware what is behind the covers of these so called great spas !

[kurt6137]

Hello all, just wanted to post some new information for newbies, not once in all the forum topics here, have I read, suggesting to pull the covers off of the hot tub your looking to purchase and see whats really under the hood. Well, I did on a 2012 Sundance 780 series hot tub and glad I did. First off, its made in Mexico, 2nd, the motor was a LG, instead of the Emerson Motors you see in their videos. Insulation to me seemed poor, cables that were routed, were looped through a cardboard toliet paper roll (at least thats what it looked like.) The problem with all these manufacturers is they dont really label, whats really in the tub. I have been a engineer all my life and I know quality, when i see it, I am not saying Sundance is bad or any other tub for that matter, but if you really want to see whats inside these tubs, you have to have the dealer open them up. The individual parts that make up the tub and how they are put together will determine its worth and reliability. Who makes the motor, the pumps, the heaters and if they are truly titanium throughout, frames, electronics, it will drive you crazy, if you let it. To me, if I am going to lay out thousands of dollars, I want the tub to last more than 10 years. I was impressed with Hot Springs, when I pulled the covers off of that tub, the insulation was very well done and the fibercor on the limelight series seems to be done well. I know there are plenty of other makers of hot tubs that build a quality product . I just dont like manufactures having there work outsourced so they can charge more, make more for there overpriced executives and give the end user a cheaper made tub, without  the user even knowing it.

[stuart]

Kurt,
I agree...we have a dealer down the road that is putting "Made in USA" Stickers on spas made in Mexico.

That's not to say that all spas made outside the US are bad...the problem is that places like Tijuana are very migratory with their workforce. Many come up to the border areas for only a few months to earn a living then go back to their hometowns. This can lead to products not having consistency.

But again, that isn't limited to outside our borders...there are many brands sold on ebay and even by dealers that dress up the outside of the spa while building it very cheap on the inside...I call it putting lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig, its just a pretty pig!

What’s worse, they put great stories on things like "No Fiberglass" or putting PVC supports under the seats...that's not nearly as strong as fiberglass however it's a great story!

I remember reading a brochure from a major manufacture many years ago that had a statement in it that said "all of our spas are made with high quality structural 2x2 pine frames"...what’s structural about 2x2 pine?!

[Jacuzzi Jim]

Hello all, just wanted to post some new information for newbies, not once in all the forum topics here, have I read, suggesting to pull the covers off of the hot tub your looking to purchase and see whats really under the hood. Well, I did on a 2012 Sundance 780 series hot tub and glad I did. First off, its made in Mexico, 2nd, the motor was a LG, instead of the Emerson Motors you see in their videos. Insulation to me seemed poor, cables that were routed, were looped through a cardboard toliet paper roll (at least thats what it looked like.) The problem with all these manufacturers is they dont really label, whats really in the tub. I have been a engineer all my life and I know quality, when i see it, I am not saying Sundance is bad or any other tub for that matter, but if you really want to see whats inside these tubs, you have to have the dealer open them up. The individual parts that make up the tub and how they are put together will determine its worth and reliability. Who makes the motor, the pumps, the heaters and if they are truly titanium throughout, frames, electronics, it will drive you crazy, if you let it. To me, if I am going to lay out thousands of dollars, I want the tub to last more than 10 years. I was impressed with Hot Springs, when I pulled the covers off of that tub, the insulation was very well done and the fibercor on the limelight series seems to be done well. I know there are plenty of other makers of hot tubs that build a quality product . I just dont like manufactures having there work outsourced so they can charge more, make more for there overpriced executives and give the end user a cheaper made tub, without  the user even knowing it.

  You realize limelight series is built in Mexico as well as their other spa's less the HS line..     From what I have seen coming out of Mexico is really no different than what was coming out of the US in the day, other than a made in USA sticker.     I think the Mexicans down there value their job and want to keep it as well. I don't know what the turn over rate is but I don't think it's very high?
 And as long as QA is done I don't have an issue with it. 
   Being that you are an engineer I can see your concerns, you are one of the worst customers a spa salesman can come across (I say this in a positive way) specially if they the sales guy doesn't know WTF they are talking about.   

  Some Jacuzzis and Sundance do use the emerson motor 48 frame, they also use an LX motor made by intertech 56 frame motor.  No idea who they are..    Never seen an LG motor in one..   
 
 I would way rather have a spa built in Mexico than China!       Not sure it's that much cheaper building in Mexico or not but I am sure it's easier than dealing with the EPA and all the regulatory crap a manufacturer deals with in the US, pretty much why many have left to build elsewhere.  Our Government pretty much sucks!! 

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

Hello all, just wanted to post some new information for newbies, not once in all the forum topics here, have I read, suggesting to pull the covers off of the hot tub your looking to purchase and see whats really under the hood. Well, I did on a 2012 Sundance 780 series hot tub and glad I did. First off, its made in Mexico, 2nd, the motor was a LG, instead of the Emerson Motors you see in their videos. Insulation to me seemed poor, cables that were routed, were looped through a cardboard toliet paper roll (at least thats what it looked like.) The problem with all these manufacturers is they dont really label, whats really in the tub. I have been a engineer all my life and I know quality, when i see it, I am not saying Sundance is bad or any other tub for that matter, but if you really want to see whats inside these tubs, you have to have the dealer open them up. The individual parts that make up the tub and how they are put together will determine its worth and reliability. Who makes the motor, the pumps, the heaters and if they are truly titanium throughout, frames, electronics, it will drive you crazy, if you let it. To me, if I am going to lay out thousands of dollars, I want the tub to last more than 10 years. I was impressed with Hot Springs, when I pulled the covers off of that tub, the insulation was very well done and the fibercor on the limelight series seems to be done well. I know there are plenty of other makers of hot tubs that build a quality product . I just dont like manufactures having there work outsourced so they can charge more, make more for there overpriced executives and give the end user a cheaper made tub, without  the user even knowing it.

  You realize limelight series is built in Mexico as well as their other spa's less the HS line..     From what I have seen coming out of Mexico is really no different than what was coming out of the US in the day, other than a made in USA sticker.     I think the Mexicans down there value their job and want to keep it as well. I don't know what the turn over rate is but I don't think it's very high?
 And as long as QA is done I don't have an issue with it. 
   Being that you are an engineer I can see your concerns, you are one of the worst customers a spa salesman can come across (I say this in a positive way) specially if they the sales guy doesn't know WTF they are talking about.   

  Some Jacuzzis and Sundance do use the emerson motor 48 frame, they also use an LX motor made by intertech 56 frame motor.  No idea who they are..    Never seen an LG motor in one..   
 
 I would way rather have a spa built in Mexico than China!       Not sure it's that much cheaper building in Mexico or not but I am sure it's easier than dealing with the EPA and all the regulatory crap a manufacturer deals with in the US, pretty much why many have left to build elsewhere.  Our Government pretty much sucks!!

Jim is pretty spot on...its not like these are being shipped from China or being built 1,000 miles away in southern Mexico.  The majority of companies that have set up shop in Mexico are doing it directly across the border in the "trade free zone" and most to simply avoid strict regulation in California esp. when working with fiberglass...assuming we're talking about the "big boys"...the same components are being used, same testing of the spas, same overall quality control, etc....I was around when Limelights were still being built in Vista, CA and I have not seen 1 difference since they "moved shop" in fact the Limelights have actually improved but that is simply because design features/cabinets/lighting etc. is continually being improved which should be no surprise to anyone (a good manufacturer is always continually making slight updates/changes based on dealer/customer feedback)

[Hot Spring Ace]

As stated Limelights and Hot Spots are built in the Watkins Tijuana plant while the Hot Spring Highlife collection (Grandee, Vista, Envoy...) are built on the US side in Vista, CA. The close proximity of the two plants really works out well and in fact the manufacturing managers and many other key personnel there are all long time Vista people who run the plant which is a good reason why the quality has stayed high. Plus, despite what some may expect the workforce for the plant there is actually not migratory at all, there is little transition in the 7 or so year old plant.

[wmccall]

Speaking as a new Sundance owner, I've been impressed with the quality of the design and its operation, and yes, it does look great on the outside.  My only disapointment did come the first day. I thought the wiring inside the control box was sloppy looking and they never vacuumed out the sawdust inside.  Trivial, but a little disheartening.

[PrecisionPoolMA]

I sell Marquis now and slap the Made in USA sticker on them as I know the shells and frame and all that is made in their factory in Portland Oregon. But with spas manufactures do no use proprietary motors, controls, or electrical components they buy them from companies like Balboa or Gekko, Emerson, Aqua-flo ect.

Those parts are assembled into the spa in the USA but the components themselves are not necessarily.

If you pull the cover off of most spas the wire routing and guys of the system are so nice and neat. Marquis Signature series have a very clean well pu together pack area that is sealed, but on their lower lines they leave out that detail in order to keep the price point down.

I agree the Engineer is the WORST customer ever  But we learn our stuff so we can answer all the questions from the most demanding customers!

[MarKee]

If you want to be impressed with how a spa is put together, take a look at the Marquis Signature Series.  There really isn't a better fit-and-finish spa out there.

[Chas]

 

If you want to be impressed with how a spa is put together, take a look at the Marquis Signature Series.  There really isn't a better fit-and-finish spa out there, other than HotSpring, of course.

Of course.   


 

[kurt6137]

Thank you for everyone replying, I always value the comments from this group. I ended up purchasing a 2013 Hot Springs Sovereign and can not wait to start soaking in it. I compared a lot of brands and did a lot of wet testing. I just kept coming back to the Hot Springs, the dealer is close and reputable, the tub I love its lounger and lights and insulation. I have to say Hot Springs keeps improving. There is a Marquis dealer in my region, but way too far for me to feel comfortable if there was a problem. The dealer I bought it from , installed a pool for me, when my children were young and still living home and the whole experience on that end was great. I think, I made the right decision and once the new tub arrives and is situated, I will take some pictures and post. Live long and prosper my friends, for I am now a Hot Springs tubber. Lol.

[hottubdan]

Hello all, just wanted to post some new information for newbies, not once in all the forum topics here, have I read, suggesting to pull the covers off of the hot tub your looking to purchase and see whats really under the hood. Well, I did on a 2012 Sundance 780 series hot tub and glad I did. First off, its made in Mexico, 2nd, the motor was a LG, instead of the Emerson Motors you see in their videos. Insulation to me seemed poor, cables that were routed, were looped through a cardboard toliet paper roll (at least thats what it looked like.) The problem with all these manufacturers is they dont really label, whats really in the tub. I have been a engineer all my life and I know quality, when i see it, I am not saying Sundance is bad or any other tub for that matter, but if you really want to see whats inside these tubs, you have to have the dealer open them up. The individual parts that make up the tub and how they are put together will determine its worth and reliability. Who makes the motor, the pumps, the heaters and if they are truly titanium throughout, frames, electronics, it will drive you crazy, if you let it. To me, if I am going to lay out thousands of dollars, I want the tub to last more than 10 years. I was impressed with Hot Springs, when I pulled the covers off of that tub, the insulation was very well done and the fibercor on the limelight series seems to be done well. I know there are plenty of other makers of hot tubs that build a quality product . I just dont like manufactures having there work outsourced so they can charge more, make more for there overpriced executives and give the end user a cheaper made tub, without  the user even knowing it.

  You realize limelight series is built in Mexico as well as their other spa's less the HS line..     From what I have seen coming out of Mexico is really no different than what was coming out of the US in the day, other than a made in USA sticker.     I think the Mexicans down there value their job and want to keep it as well. I don't know what the turn over rate is but I don't think it's very high?
 And as long as QA is done I don't have an issue with it. 
   Being that you are an engineer I can see your concerns, you are one of the worst customers a spa salesman can come across (I say this in a positive way) specially if they the sales guy doesn't know WTF they are talking about.   

  Some Jacuzzis and Sundance do use the emerson motor 48 frame, they also use an LX motor made by intertech 56 frame motor.  No idea who they are..    Never seen an LG motor in one..   
 
 I would way rather have a spa built in Mexico than China!       Not sure it's that much cheaper building in Mexico or not but I am sure it's easier than dealing with the EPA and all the regulatory crap a manufacturer deals with in the US, pretty much why many have left to build elsewhere.  Our Government pretty much sucks!!

Jim is pretty spot on...its not like these are being shipped from China or being built 1,000 miles away in southern Mexico.  The majority of companies that have set up shop in Mexico are doing it directly across the border in the "trade free zone" and most to simply avoid strict regulation in California esp. when working with fiberglass...assuming we're talking about the "big boys"...the same components are being used, same testing of the spas, same overall quality control, etc....I was around when Limelights were still being built in Vista, CA and I have not seen 1 difference since they "moved shop" in fact the Limelights have actually improved but that is simply because design features/cabinets/lighting etc. is continually being improved which should be no surprise to anyone (a good manufacturer is always continually making slight updates/changes based on dealer/customer feedback)

Limelights have always been made in TJ.  Watkins always pays their workers better than most to retain them.  they have very little turnover.

[kurt6137]

Thanks you guys for the replies, Let me say, I don't have anything against a product , being made in Mexico, as long as the quality is right and they treat their employees decent. Now, that being said, I have found years ago, certain manufactured items from Mexico to be of low quality. I don't think thats the case now. I had the limelight flair, the first year it came out and I see how Watkins has improved it. I like to see a company actually listen to its customers and make improvements along the way. I just wish we could keep the jobs in America, people are hurting right now and I think, we have the best workforce in the world.