My New 2012 Sundance Optima Leaks

[popps]

I have a brand new 2012 Optima and it seems to have a slow leak.  There's no water in the motor bay, all is dry there, but there is water in the bottom of the tub if you remove the back panel.  Both back corners are wet.  Even though my tub is only 3 weeks old my dealer says Sundance won't replace the tub until he figures out what's wrong and determines it can't be "easily" fixed.  Does this make sense to you guys?

He's about to send his tech over for the second time now and they're going to start removing foam to look for the problem.  I believe the problem is on pump 2 which drives one seat and the foot dome as I only lose water (1 gallon in 20 minutes) with that pump on, still trying to figure out if it's only in one diverter position.  Another issue here, perhaps related, is that one jet in my foot dome has lower pressure than the rest.

I'm fighting like mad that I deserve a new tub and don't want them to completely rip mine apart (remember - 3 weeks old here) to fix it, am I being unreasonable?  Is he?

Lastly, what "should" he be doing to find the leak?  I thought nowadays there were fancy tools for looking or scanning for heat (almost like an xray?) or something....or is it really a needle in a hay stack and they just have to start digging through foam everywhere?

Not the Sundance experience I was hoping for......I called them and they said "gotta work through the dealer"....

-Popps

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

microscopic chance that you'll get a new tub out of the deal unless the shell itself is defective in some way, shape or form or if for whatever reason you had a large number of leaks from a faulty batch of glue which doesn't seem to be the case.  Most likely they'll use dye in the water to trace the leak, pull the foam, fix it, and spray foam back in...are they attempting the repair on-site or do they plan to pick the tub up?

[Jacuzzi Jim]

  How many people have been in the spa?   Tell the dealer to check the tubes that run to your air control.  Sometimes  if the water level gets to a point and the air tube that draws air in to the jets is below the water line it or they can leak water if the situation is right.  Worth a shot.    And no your prolly not gonna get a new spa, there are certain things dealers (all dealers all brands) have to go through before it gets to that extreme.   Give them a chance to solve the problem, many times it is just a loose fitting or missed clamp.    If he is a good dealer he will take care of you. I know it is frustrating, but your spa is running so enjoy it , leaks can happen, not often but they happen.  But give them a chance to take care of the problem. 

[clover]

If you think you have a problem that you didn't expect, think about the dealer who didn't expect it either.

It is unfortunate when any of us learn this is not a perfect world, but at least show some understanding that sometimes $hirt happens.

As for sophisticated tools, Delmhorst has a moisture meter with extended forks you can punch into a bale of hay to measure moisture levels, or in this case foam where there should be no moisture, cost is about $600, then use a temperature probe from Fluke.  Your not looking for the cold water you see, but the hot water that is closer to the the leak.  Or, an infrared camera that measures "surface" temperature from $3,000 to $14,000 and up, but again it is not an x-ray IR camera. 

Personally, I prefer to use the moisture and temperature probes in the foam, and have rarely used the IR camera, which is more often used for energy efficiency audits, although it is a great tool for cover evaluations, but very pricey.

Give they guy a chance, he is not happy about it either, and he doesn’t tell Sundance what to do, it's the other way around, so please have patience with him, it's not his fault, but I am sure he will take care of it.

Which problem do you want him to work on first, correcting the problem , or satifying your anger?

[Chris_H]

Wow.  3 weeks old and it leaks - I'd expect that from a Costco spa.  I wonder if there has been issues with leaks on Sundance/Jacuzzi spas since they have changed manufacturing sites.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

Wow.  3 weeks old and it leaks - I'd expect that from a Costco spa.  I wonder if there has been issues with leaks on Sundance/Jacuzzi spas since they have changed manufacturing sites.

  Yes it happens all the time everyday, we just decided not to tell you about it. 

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

Wow.  3 weeks old and it leaks - I'd expect that from a Costco spa.  I wonder if there has been issues with leaks on Sundance/Jacuzzi spas since they have changed manufacturing sites.

meh...it happens to every single brand on the market, and if you think it doesn't your being very unrealistic, even on the Hot Spring line which is pressured tested with air and water tested as well before it leaves the factory. It is very very rare, but it does happen.  The thing you have to remember about spas today is that a big majority of them are 20-60 jets, 2-3 pumps, multiple lights, multiple suction fittings, etc. All of that of course either requires plumbing and/or cutting a hole in the shell which in turn makes for a ton of potential leak points.  I don't care how long a company has been around or how many quality control people are overseeing manufacturing..these are still mechanical items and things will break, its just how it is, I don't know any other way to put it

[Spatech_tuo]

Wow.  3 weeks old and it leaks - I'd expect that from a Costco spa.  I wonder if there has been issues with leaks on Sundance/Jacuzzi spas since they have changed manufacturing sites.

Leaking when new should be very rare and that seems to be the case since we don’t hear of this often on this make/model (not that it makes this owner feel any better). The fact Jacuzzi/Sundance is now made in Mexico might make you pause except that its been more than a year from what I gather that they moved it there so if that was the cause we'd see/hear a lot more due to the shift to manufacture there and I don't think that’s the case either.

I don't really raise an eyebrow that someone's new Sundance has leaked, though it should be fairly rare it can happen. The key is their reaction. The good brands are those that fail less often but also take care of the issue when things do arise. This needs to be remedied ASAP and while I would not expect a new spa unless the issue were with the shell or if they have trouble finding/remedying the issue, Sundance and the dealer need to make this right and the owner should talk to Sundance if he/she doesn't feel the dealer is taking care of business.

[Flyonthewall]

give them a chance to fix it and return it to new condition.  if you are not satisfied then stay on them.  if the problem recurs you will have even better footing to ask for a new one. 

[Waterbug]

  I purchased a new tub about 6 months ago and it too had a leak in the first several weeks.  I'm purposely not mentioning the brand because I think that the brand is irrelivant.  What is important is that my dealer was out two days later and had it repaired in several hour.  He had to make a second trip several days later to refoam, after we were both satisfied that the leak had been repaired. (very slow leak).  Neither the manufacturer or dealer has much control of how things are handled during shipment.  The dealer can't very well fill each tub with water and run it for a week to be sure that it doesn't leak.
  About 10 years ago, I had a new Jacuzzi bathtub that leaked in three different locations, after it was installed inside my house.  That tub was uninstalled three times to access the leaks.  At that point the labor costs were approaching the cost of the bath tub.  Jacuzzi finally replaced it, but being a bath tub it only had one pump and no heater or lights and only 7 jets.  It was a much less costly product.

[Hot Spring Ace]

It will be interesting to see the update. This isn't really about Sundance's quality or where they build their spas. These things can happen, its all about how the dealer responds (and if needed, how the manufacturer does as well).

[popps]

Thanks for all the replies, with regards to the one suggestion about lots of people in the tub and the possibility of the air vents backing up with water, I checked that.....in this case it's not the source of the leak as I never have more than my wife and I in the tub and we keep the water level just barely above the top jet (and it drops of course!).

Here's an update - the saga continues.  As of right now my new tub looks like Swiss cheese, the tech came out for a second visit today, took all the panels off and punched about 10 holes in the tub foam where he dug all the way in up to his arm pits feeling around for a leak, he claims there's no wet foam that he can find. 

So, there is water in the bottom pan of the tub, I lose a gallon of water (no more no less) when I run pump 2 for 20 minutes, and one of my foot dome jets exhibits slightly less output pressure than the others - and that's about all we can be sure of.  The tech wants to leave the holes in the foam for now to see if water somehow materializes there (I really think he's just thinking on what to do next) and the only thing he can think of is that the leak is in the center of the tub where he can't "reach" or just behind the motor bay where he says he can't get in to dig.

I'm letting them do their thing but I'm disappointed of course as I still have a leaking tub, now Swiss cheesed, and still no talk of asking Sundance to replace it despite it being brand new.

Popps

[sorebikr]

Not that I have any experience with a leaky tub or leaky anything, but having been through my own sagas, a little advice:

Document. Document, and then document some more.

Pictures.  Exact times and dates of all phone calls, visits.  Write up notes of what you guys discuss in person.  Hopefully you'll never need to use any of it, and someday you'll look back and laugh at how rediculously anal you were.  But.  If it does get to the point, where you're updating us 2-3 months from now, and there hasn't been any progress, and weather starts to get cooloer and your temperature has gone through the roof, a mountain of paperwork will definitely help you case.

Just my unsolicited $0.02

[malvese]

I am considering purchasing a new Optima this week and was curious to see if they fixed the leak or replaced the tub.  I am also wondering if you would still recommend this tub after having it now for 5 months or so

[sorebikr]

Sundance is a good brand, one post shouldn't scare you off.  Had mine for a year?  Two years?  and its been great.