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« Last post by Davekro on February 08, 2024, 02:47:08 pm »
@BullFrogSpasMN , You have been very informative on Bullfrog questions. Thank you. Can you tell me about the 2023 Neck JetPaks? I have the NeckPlus JetPak which may have been modified, and poorly. On my NeckPlus, just below where the headrest goes over the front protrusions over each shoulder, cut out slots have been made roughly and unevenly. Looks like it was done by a grinding wheel or 1/8" wide cutting wheel on an angle grinder. This is on a brand new A6L Select from a brand new Bullfrog dealer. It was a 2 month old (dry) floor model. Are these cutouts supposed to be there, meaning the Bullfrog factory does this on the assembly line that builds the 2023 JetPaks? If so, the B'Frog worker was extremely sloppy as the cutouts (slots) are uneven side to side. If B'Frog does these manual modifications on the 2023 Neck JetPaks, you'd think they would water test them on a JetPak water test fixture in the JetPak subassembly line. If these cut-outs are not done by B'Frog at the factory, I can't imagine how a brand-new dealer would end up with a non OEM modified JetPak. The dealer has only been in business for 3 months, and I was literally their first sale. Not like another customer returned this Jet pack to the store after the customer modified it. I wore out Google looking to find pics or videos of 2023 B'Frog Neck JetPaks. The ONLY example of a 2023 Neck Pak I found was a Neck'EASE'. It had no water coming from the shoulder protrusions. I will be talking to the dealer, but I seriously doubt he'll have a clue of what this NeckPLUS JetPak should look like, so I'd like to know in advance of confusing him.  Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Dave
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« Last post by Sam on February 08, 2024, 01:29:08 pm »
Nice! Wellis seems to be making a lot of noise in the U.S. these days. I really like what they are doing. Seem to be really well made with good features at a decent price. Come back and update us after you've had it for awhile.
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« Last post by Davekro on February 07, 2024, 04:23:55 pm »
After searching Google a lot, I only found ONE video showing a 2023 NeckEASE JetPak in operation. I found NO videos or pics of the 2023 NeckPLUS that I have. I attached a screen shot of the YouTube video where it showed the NeckEASE operating. It has no water coming out of the left and right protruding portions over the side neck jets. I'd assume that this portion of Neck Paks are the same, that they differ only by the Jets on the vertical 'back' portion of the Neck Paks. https://www.flickr.com/photos/199746734@N04/53515878345/in/dateposted-public/
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« Last post by Davekro on February 07, 2024, 02:15:13 am »
One other thing of note, the hum of just the one Jet Pump on low has quite a loud hum outside that carries through the house. The Jet pumps have a red and white tag on one of each pump's four mounting bolts. "Shipping Bolt. May Remove After Spa Installation to Minimize Vibration." (picture attached) I will remove those two bolts tomorrow. Curious if anyone has this very loud hum that resonates well into the opposite side of the house? Did you remove those two shipping bolts and notice a significantly lower sound from Pump #1 running on low for the circulation/filtration cycle? (I do not have the dedicated Circ. Pump.) https://www.flickr.com/photos/199746734@N04/53514327328/in/dateposted-public/
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« Last post by Davekro on February 06, 2024, 09:21:50 pm »
I got my new A6L Select two days ago and have a few questions for Bullfrog owners. The tub in not heated for use yet because I am in the long process to lower my tub's street water filled Total Alkalinity (TA) down from 370 PPM! So I have not been on the 60º water to 'feel' the jets, I am just observing them. 1) I never thought about it before, but it seems there is no option to run jets w/o AERATION. Am I missing something? 2) When jets are manually turned on for use from the control display, the default setting Auto-shuts-off after 30 minutes. Is there somewhere in the settings to adjust the Auto-shut-off time? I looked and can not find it via the control panel. 3) Initially, I saw aeration only from the upper jets of each pack, then after repeatedly cycling both pumps rapidly through off, low, high, repeat, and using a plunger on the holes at the base of the two JetPaks closest to the pumps, it 'seems' aeration runs lower now, but not sure about the bottom most jets. I'll know more when it's heated and the chemicals are set up properly. 4) Specifically the new for 2023 Neck "Plus" JetPak (pictures attached)- When I removed the headrest covers to purge the hot tub, I noticed that the fronts were very roughly cut with slots like with a grinder wheel. The cuts did not match side to side, looked rough like the assembly line tech was NOT paying attention, and the headrest covers do not snap over on these front extensions. What are these "manual cutouts" supposed to do??? With the pump on low, the one over the right shoulder sprays a disfigured stream, on high the stream is disfigured and very forceful. The one over the left shoulder on low squirts up and in all directions, on high it sprays in your face and all over. 5) New for 2023, Bullfrogs have air bleed valves at the base of the front panel, so you no longer need to go inside and remove a hose on the actual pump(s) to bleed air out. The right air bleed connects to both Jet Pumps. I discovered that the left plug is for the dinky waterfall pump (bottom right side of cabinet). I initially thought there was a separate air bleed for each JET pump, so was confused why the left one had less flow and did not change with pump speed... well, Duh!   https://www.flickr.com/cameraroll
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« Last post by cranbiz on February 05, 2024, 12:51:17 pm »
I'm glad you found something. Enjoy.
I will be interested in the long term reliability of the Wellis. They are new to the US and they look like a decent tub. I'm also curious about how good the dealer support it.
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« Last post by Chris58475 on February 05, 2024, 05:28:30 am »
Hi guys. I'm looking for some advice on how to prevent airlocks from occurring when refilling my spa.
I've had the spa for 4yrs now, and whenever I refill the spa I've always pointed my hose directly into the filter compartment. During the first year or two, each time I refilled I'd get a small airlock which would usually release by running each pump individually for 5-10secs. However for the past couple of years, this hasn't worked and every time I've had to remove the side panel to release the airlock by hand at the pump connection. This adds extra time and effort to my cleaning routine which I really want to eliminate if possible.
My spa is a HotSpring Relay. It is the older model which I believe was discontinued in 2019.
Any tips would be appreciated!
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Possibly too late on this but to steer the topic back to the original question - There is a myriad of reasons a company may or may not use a circulation pump, and a myriad of pros and cons to a circulation pump that you would consider when making your purchase. I want to convey that this is written in good faith and not meant to cast a positive or negative light on any brand, but merely to help inform.
Factors in whether a circ pump is available on a hot tub from the point of view of a manufacturer:
-The pack(s) that a brand uses will play a role, possibly the biggest role. More relays = more price for the pack (pack = motherboard and heater). There is 1 relay needed per speed of a motor. Most brands use a 3 relay pack on lower to mid-range tubs. If the spa has (say) 2 pumps, one pump with a single speed and dual speed pump, that is 3 relays. If a circ pump is added on, the hot tub manufacturer will either need to buy a bigger pack (more money) or may buy an extension for the pack or hardwire direct. This typically is where continuous flow vs programmable comes in (if hardwired direct it will run 24/7, whereas programmable can run any length of time you deem fit) and why these terms exist.
-Sometimes the build of the tub limits the volume of "stuff" you can put in a tub. Brands might be able to physically have only X number of pumps / packs b/c there simply is only so much space inside the spa's cabin. Plumbing, height of the seats, how they install insulation, etc. all factor into this.
-Price *always* factors in. Can they buy these items and then sell tubs for the price they want? How much extra plumbing / labor is involved? Not saying it is the main factor, but it is always a factor.
-Does the supplier have a quality circulation pump? No hot tub brands make their own packs / pumps / controls / etc. so they have to buy them from a supplier. Not all suppliers are equal, and suppliers also offer varying quality (just like hot tub brands offer varying qualities of products). These are some of the factors involved.
In terms of pros and cons of a circ pump, its incredibly nuanced and requires lots of detailed review to understand the entire scope.
PRO CIRC PUMP
A standard therapy pump linked to the heater will pull "X" amps during its low speed / heat cycle and the circ pump tends to pull much less amperage and that can translate into energy savings. The circ pump takes a lot of stress off of the pump that the heater is linked to. The pump that is linked to the heater will start / stop all day long engage the heat process and to filter the water. This start / stop stress is why (in a 2 pump system) the pump linked to the heater always dies out faster than the second pump, so your therapy pump(s) are lasting longer when a circ pump is involved. The circ pump also allows for the user to sit in the tub w/o out the water coming out of the jets. This is for sure an intangible that may not be important factor but some users prefer to sit in the water with the jets off (or sit in the water after the 20 min massage and just relax). The circ pump will take the heater and filter off of the main pump / first pump and in theory will increase it's efficiency in terms of water delivery since the heat tube (a bottle neck in the plumbing) and the filter system (an impediment to the flow of water) are no longer present. A circ pump will also have a lower flow of water running through the heater chamber and can allow for a smaller heater to be used. A 4.0kW heater will pull less energy than the 5.5kW and will last longer as it is under less stress and then costs less to replace. These are some of the reasons why you could consider a circ pump.
ANTI CIRC PUMP
You had to buy a circ pump and all of the costs associated with it. To the buyer it is a flat price that is folded into the cost of the initial spa purchase. Thus, you are starting at a negative in terms of cost and trying to make up any savings based on the energy consumption on a per-month basis. Once you are on the other side of that - and that is *if* that happens (too many variables to calculate specifically so the length of time it takes is relative and a per-case basis, and I am not implying that you will never make that up nor that it will or will not take a long time, just outlining all factors), eventually the pump will need to be replaced. That plus the labor to replace said pump. So again you have to start from a negative and work your way back to zero. Additionally, there are some brands that use notoriously poor circ pumps which is more fodder for the anti-circ pump sales pitch. These are some reason why you could consider not buying a circ pump
I will shy away from filtration rates, etc. b/c of the factors involved that are too convoluted to truly flesh out the reasons why you would or would not want a circ pump. Ask anyone in this forum that truly understands hot tubs and they will tell you that if your water is green, the filter rate (and filter for that matter) will not turn it clear and let you know that this is all about water chemistry and that is 100% the user, not the brand. Or to put it another way - filter rate is probably towards the bottom of why you would or would not buy a circ pump.
I hope this helps. Good luck moving forward.
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« Last post by Canton on February 02, 2024, 07:54:37 pm »
Just wanted to give an update. I ended up getting a Wellis Monte Rosa for me an my wife. And while my only point of reference was the Maxx spa I had that was probably 20 years old, the difference is night and day. The jets are amazing compared to what I remember. Had the spa about 4 months now and am very pleased with the tub. It has definitely helped with my wife's back problems.
Just wanted to thank everyone for their help.
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« Last post by Davekro on January 22, 2024, 05:10:27 pm »
For Bullfrog 2023 owners, NeckPlus Vs. NeckEase JetPaks, which do you prefer and why? Which is stronger, assuming the neck Pak is on a circuit with only two JetPaks, not three (if the spa has 5 JetPaks). If you have the neck Pak in a seat appropriate to your height, do either spray water at others in the spa or out of the spa? Aside from the neck jets, which Pak feels best to you for your back? Our A6L with NeckPlus, DeepRelief, Gyro'sage and Trio Jet packs is scheduled to be delivered in a week. 
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