Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: guyplayeur on May 05, 2007, 07:16:01 pm

Title: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: guyplayeur on May 05, 2007, 07:16:01 pm
Very close to buying either the Hot Springs Prodigy or the Jacuzzi J-325, and wondering if anyone has any insights.  The posts on this board are very helpful and I'm hoping someone has words of wisdom for me as well!

Curious about general recommendations, and also monthly costs to operate for each as well.  I live in Northern California.  

I've also looked at the higher end Jacuzzi J-460, so if anyone has anything to say about that one I'd surely appreciate that as well!

Thanks!

-sam
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on May 05, 2007, 07:54:33 pm
 The J-325 will probably cost less each are very nice spa's pump wise the Jacuzzi has a bit more hp and a bit more filtration not a huge difference, I would say do a wet test, both are great spas.

 As far as the J-460 goes its in a totally different league than the other 2.

I just fired one up yesterday for a test soak tonight and it plain out rocks, tons of power in all the seats and looks fantastic, not sure how it will work for taller/larger people but it really does perform the new RX jets are fantastic.

 I cant remember where the Prodigy prices out the J- 460 will most likely cost more but then again its a different spa.

 Power wise should be around 10 to 15 a month for all 3

 Like others will chime in, wet test and see which feels and fits you best.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: guyplayeur on May 05, 2007, 08:28:48 pm
Great stuff, Jim.  

You mentioned that the Jacuzzi has more horsepower than the Hot Springs.  Does more hp equate to more $$ for the electric bill?  

The prices I've been quoted are $7295 for the Jacuzzi J-325, $7895 for the Hot Springs Prodigy, and $9395 for the J-460.

Any info on how quiet these are in comparison to one another when circulating the water when not in use?  The spa is going to be right outside out bedroom window and we like the windows open at night.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on May 05, 2007, 08:55:22 pm
Quote
Great stuff, Jim.  

You mentioned that the Jacuzzi has more horsepower than the Hot Springs.  Does more hp equate to more $$ for the electric bill?  

The prices I've been quoted are $7295 for the Jacuzzi J-325, $7895 for the Hot Springs Prodigy, and $9395 for the J-460.

Any info on how quiet these are in comparison to one another when circulating the water when not in use?  The spa is going to be right outside out bedroom window and we like the windows open at night.


 The higher hp wont make a difference electrical wise anf the sound between the 2 should be the same the nice thing with the 460 is you can totally control when the main pump comes on for filtration what time and how long you want it to run,you can also with the J-325 just not as exact as the J-460 its still not bad though.
 The circ pump runs 24/7

 The price for the 325 seems high but a lot depends where you live?  We sell the 325 at 6495.00 and the 460 at 8995 or so.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: guyplayeur on May 05, 2007, 09:01:14 pm
I'm in Northern California...everthing's pricey here.   ;)

Those Jacuzzi prizes include the ozone, cover lifter and steps.  Does that sound a little better?

So I gather you're a Jacuzzi dealer?
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on May 05, 2007, 09:06:41 pm
Quote
I'm in Northern California...everthing's pricey here.   ;)

Those Jacuzzi prizes include the ozone, cover lifter and steps.  Does that sound a little better?

So I gather you're a Jacuzzi dealer?


  Those items do help the price quite a bit and yes we are a Jacuzzi dealer.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Whiskeyjack on May 05, 2007, 10:14:17 pm
Hey Guy,

About a year ago we were in the same position you are now--trying to decide between the Jacuzzi 325 and the Prodigy. We ended up with the Prodigy. I've continued to lurk on this board since asking a few questions prior to our purchase.  We liked both tubs, but preferred the combination of open seating and bucket seating of the Prodigy. The bucket only seating of the Jacuzzi just seemed a little too confining for us, and you can squeeze more than four people into the Prodigy at times.  If you are on the tall side, you might prefer the Jacuzzi, as I seem to remember that it was a little deeper. Care and electric expense has been easy and cheap over the past year.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Mez on May 06, 2007, 07:58:19 am
Quote
I'm in Northern California...everthing's pricey here.   ;)

Those Jacuzzi prizes include the ozone, cover lifter and steps.  Does that sound a little better?

So I gather you're a Jacuzzi dealer?

THought I would chime in. I ordered a Jacuzzi J-345 3 weeks ago. List is $7995, sale price $6995 with the authorized new model sale...ended up paying $6495 and that price came with cover lifter, chemicals, steps, ozonator and delivery. I am in Cincinnati, Ohio. I was told the tub is manufactured in California and I supposedly got a little better price since I said I wasnt in a huge hurry to get it. The dealer was trying to get an order together to ship by rail for a cheaper delivery charge. I would think you should be able to get a comparable deal. And that price was for a 345 vs the 325 you questioned.  The 400 series are pretty sweet but quite a bit more $$. Did you look at a J-365? I think that is the best tub in their lineup for the money...but still a bit more than I wasnted to pay.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: guyplayeur on May 06, 2007, 10:26:25 am
I'm looking at the J-325 or J-460 because I have space constraints in my yard and need a smaller spa.  The Hot Springs Prodigy is a similar size.  

This is all great info.  Anyone else have any stories?
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: hottubdan on May 06, 2007, 10:32:52 am
Quote
Great stuff, Jim.  

You mentioned that the Jacuzzi has more horsepower than the Hot Springs.  Does more hp equate to more $$ for the electric bill?  

The prices I've been quoted are $7295 for the Jacuzzi J-325, $7895 for the Hot Springs Prodigy, and $9395 for the J-460.

Any info on how quiet these are in comparison to one another when circulating the water when not in use?  The spa is going to be right outside out bedroom window and we like the windows open at night.

Actually the higher the HP the higher the electric bill.  It is not huge, but it is there.  Common sense says that it takes more power to run a bigger pump.

However, the quality (density) of the insulation in the Hot Spring is superior to the Jacuzzi.  There is a reason Hot Spring has published 3rd party testing for power consumption and others haven't.

Unless they have changed their programming, the Jacuzzi will filter with the jet pump on a timer, making it noisier during that sequence.

Where in northern CA are you?  I know the Hot Spring dealers well and some of the Jacuzzi dealers also.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: guyplayeur on May 06, 2007, 11:54:53 am
We're in Mountain View, California.  Been shopping at the Hot Springs in San Jose, and the Jacuzzi dealer in Palo Alto.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: hottubdan on May 06, 2007, 12:13:38 pm
Quote
We're in Mountain View, California.  Been shopping at the Hot Springs in San Jose, and the Jacuzzi dealer in Palo Alto.

2 strong dealers, although Paradise Valley's firsat love is Sundance.  Are you working with Chet at the Hot Spring store?  He is an industry veterean.  What is included with the Prodigy?  Comparable package?
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 06, 2007, 12:37:00 pm
Quote

Actually the higher the HP the higher the electric bill.  It is not huge, but it is there.  Common sense says that it takes more power to run a bigger pump.

However, the quality (density) of the insulation in the Hot Spring is superior to the Jacuzzi.  There is a reason Hot Spring has published 3rd party testing for power consumption and others haven't.

Unless they have changed their programming, the Jacuzzi will filter with the jet pump on a timer, making it noisier during that sequence.

Where in northern CA are you?  I know the Hot Spring dealers well and some of the Jacuzzi dealers also.


Mow much more is the savings on the hot springs compared to the Jacuzzi?? Are we talking alot??
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: hottubdan on May 06, 2007, 01:18:43 pm
Quote


Mow much more is the savings on the hot springs compared to the Jacuzzi?? Are we talking alot??

There is no documentation.  Hot Spring has made energy efficiency an engineering cornerstone from day one, 30 years ago.  For many other manufacturers it has been an afterthought.

Hot Spring has done 3rd party testing, and published it in their brochures and web site.  http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/energy-efficiency.html

Until there is a standard for 3rd party testing and other manufacturers step up to the plate, we are left to our imaginations how much the savings is with a Hot Spring vs. others, none, 10%, 20%, 50%, more?
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 06, 2007, 02:21:03 pm
Quote

There is no documentation.  Hot Spring has made energy efficiency an engineering cornerstone from day one, 30 years ago.  For many other manufacturers it has been an afterthought.

Hot Spring has done 3rd party testing, and published it in their brochures and web site.  http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/energy-efficiency.html

Until there is a standard for 3rd party testing and other manufacturers step up to the plate, we are left to our imaginations how much the savings is with a Hot Spring vs. others, none, 10%, 20%, 50%, more?


This is true. Does hot springs make a tub without the Moto massage??

I take it that hot springs is Full Foam?

Thanks 104 :)
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: hottubdan on May 06, 2007, 02:35:00 pm
Quote


This is true. Does hot springs make a tub without the Moto massage??

I take it that hot springs is Full Foam?

Thanks 104 :)

The Prodigy, which guyplayeur is looking at, has no Moto Massage.  Tiger River spas, with the same energy saving design as Hot Spring have no Moto Massage.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 06, 2007, 02:42:28 pm
Quote

The Prodigy, which guyplayeur is looking at, has no Moto Massage.  Tiger River spas, with the same energy saving design as Hot Spring have no Moto Massage.



Thank you 8-)
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 06, 2007, 02:45:35 pm
I just looked at Tiger river. They do have a very good dealer. How is the Caspian spa? It has the foot jets that i like.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: mr.spasr. on May 06, 2007, 04:24:28 pm
You cannot go wrong with the Prodigy or any other Hot Spring Model - They are built in such an Iron Clad fashion from the ground up. No other ( especially Jacuzzi) spa comes even close - The Prodigy will be 90% quieter and 1/2 the cost to operate over same gallon other spa. The Jacizzi is all visual -more jets = more HP required = More Noise and More $$$ on the PG&E bill. don't be seduced by the "glamor" look at the nuts and bolts- Even if the Hot Spring cost twice as much it would be the better deal - NO Doubt TheJacuzzi  spa is NOT a very well built spa . whereas the Prodigy will last 30 years -
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 06, 2007, 04:44:09 pm
Quote
You cannot go wrong with the Prodigy or any other Hot Spring Model - They are built in such an Iron Clad fashion from the ground up. No other ( especially Jacuzzi) spa comes even close - The Prodigy will be 90% quieter and 1/2 the cost to operate over same gallon other spa. The Jacizzi is all visual -more jets = more HP required = More Noise and More $$$ on the PG&E bill. don't be seduced by the "glamor" look at the nuts and bolts- Even if the Hot Spring cost twice as much it would be the better deal - NO Doubt TheJacuzzi  spa is NOT a very well built spa . whereas the Prodigy will last 30 years -

Please dont hold back ;D  The way you put it i will go wet test one.

Thank you :)
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: LtDan on May 06, 2007, 09:38:32 pm
Quote
You cannot go wrong with the Prodigy or any other Hot Spring Model - They are built in such an Iron Clad fashion from the ground up. No other ( especially Jacuzzi) spa comes even close - The Prodigy will be 90% quieter and 1/2 the cost to operate over same gallon other spa. The Jacizzi is all visual -more jets = more HP required = More Noise and More $$$ on the PG&E bill. don't be seduced by the "glamor" look at the nuts and bolts- Even if the Hot Spring cost twice as much it would be the better deal - NO Doubt TheJacuzzi  spa is NOT a very well built spa . whereas the Prodigy will last 30 years -

You wouldn't, by chance, sell Hot Springs spas would you?

Most of the dealers on the forum refrain from talking smack about other brands, and actually will tell you to steer clear of any spa retailer that resorts to such weak BS. Of course, most of them can also spell Jacuzzi correctly every time. And glamour.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: guyplayeur on May 06, 2007, 10:24:40 pm
Quote

2 strong dealers, although Paradise Valley's firsat love is Sundance.  Are you working with Chet at the Hot Spring store?  He is an industry veterean.  What is included with the Prodigy?  Comparable package?

Yes, a comparable package for the Prodigy.  Includes cover lifter & step....Ozone is an "accessory" on the Jacuzzi, and standard on the Prodigy....as I'm sure you know!)   ;)

I didn't meet Chet, but was dealing with Ryan who seemed like a good guy.  Chet is still there.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Mez on May 06, 2007, 10:45:30 pm
Quote

Yes, a comparable package for the Prodigy.  Includes cover lifter & step....Ozone is an "accessory" on the Jacuzzi, and standard on the Prodigy....as I'm sure you know!)   ;)

I didn't meet Chet, but was dealing with Ryan who seemed like a good guy.  Chet is still there.

The dealer I ordered my Jacuzi 345 from installs the "optional" ozonator on every tub he sells and its included in the price. Damn, I wish I had read the previous rantings bashing the Jacuzzi brand, I wouldnt have ordered it! I wonder if its too late to get my deposit back :)
The way I figured it, Jacuzzi was the first, they are celebrating their 50th year in the spa business, they have to be doing something right. Maybe they arent the best selling, or the best built, who knows? But they cant be the kinda P.O.S. that some on here are saying, they would have been drummed outta business a long time ago if that were the case.
As others have always said on here, shop, compare products, compare dealers, find a tub and dealer you are comfortable with at a price you can afford and go with it. I personally like the styling of the Jacuzzi, and the 345 I ordered doesnt have a high jet count..27 total. I researched and they manufactured over 80,000 tubs last year worldwide.
Who really knows what is the best tub on the market? I have been looking for that answer ever since I finally gave in and told my wife I would get her one. It all comes down to what you like.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 07, 2007, 06:23:17 am
Quote

The dealer I ordered my Jacuzi 345 from installs the "optional" ozonator on every tub he sells and its included in the price. Damn, I wish I had read the previous rantings bashing the Jacuzzi brand, I wouldnt have ordered it! I wonder if its too late to get my deposit back :)
The way I figured it, Jacuzzi was the first, they are celebrating their 50th year in the spa business, they have to be doing something right. Maybe they arent the best selling, or the best built, who knows? But they cant be the kinda P.O.S. that some on here are saying, they would have been drummed outta business a long time ago if that were the case.
As others have always said on here, shop, compare products, compare dealers, find a tub and dealer you are comfortable with at a price you can afford and go with it. I personally like the styling of the Jacuzzi, and the 345 I ordered doesnt have a high jet count..27 total. I researched and they manufactured over 80,000 tubs last year worldwide.
Who really knows what is the best tub on the market? I have been looking for that answer ever since I finally gave in and told my wife I would get her one. It all comes down to what you like.

Mez

Do you know if the ozonater runs all the time with the recurculating pump on the j345??


104
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: eightisenough on May 07, 2007, 07:57:36 am
Can someone explain whether there are qualitative benefits to spendinig the extra money for the Jacuzzi 400 series over the 300?   Is the extra money for bells and whistles?
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: hottubdan on May 07, 2007, 10:32:41 am
Quote


The way I figured it, Jacuzzi was the first, they are celebrating their 50th year in the spa business...


Actually 50 years ago it was the jetted bathtub.  The spa business is not 50 years old.

How do you know the accuracy of 80,000 spas a year?

Yes, the ozone runs with the circ pump.  Always on except when jet pump running, as with most Sundance/Jacuzzi products.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Spatech_tuo on May 07, 2007, 10:47:44 am
Quote

The dealer I ordered my Jacuzi 345 from installs the "optional" ozonator on every tub he sells and its included in the price.

 I researched and they manufactured over 80,000 tubs last year worldwide.



1) Find out whether that ozone that they inlcuded is UV or preferably the CD type.

2) 80,000? Where did you find that number? C'mon, I'm not so sure I buy that!!!
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 07, 2007, 11:43:49 am
Quote


Actually 50 years ago it was the jetted bathtub.  The spa business is not 50 years old.

How do you know the accuracy of 80,000 spas a year?

Yes, the ozone runs with the circ pump.  Always on except when jet pump running, as with most Sundance/Jacuzzi products.


Thank you dan :) :) :) That sounds nice 8-)
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Gary on May 07, 2007, 12:24:58 pm
Go with the Hot Springs, much better all around quality.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 07, 2007, 01:57:09 pm
Quote
Go with the Hot Springs, much better all around quality.


Im going to look at hot springs too. we do have a great dealer.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: ndabunka on May 07, 2007, 10:02:39 pm
Go with Jacuzzi.  Just MUCH better all around...
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Mez on May 07, 2007, 10:31:38 pm
Quote


Actually 50 years ago it was the jetted bathtub.  The spa business is not 50 years old.

How do you know the accuracy of 80,000 spas a year?

Yes, the ozone runs with the circ pump.  Always on except when jet pump running, as with most Sundance/Jacuzzi products.

Sorry for the misleading info, you are correct, they invented a pump that fit inside a regular bathtub..they didnt create and patent the first "self contained spa until 1968...read this copied from Wikipedia..
In 1968, Roy Jacuzzi introduced the world to the "Roman Bathtub." This was the first integrated whirlpool bath. His patented jets, placed along the sides, produced a 50/50 air to water ratio providing an experience like none before. The same patented mixture ratio is still a signature feature of today's Jacuzzi jets. Suzanne Sommers, then a model, was used in some of the first print advertisements published by Jacuzzi.

In the early 1970s, the company produced larger units with built-in heating and filtration systems. This was the beginning of the spa industry as we know it today. Friends and family were now invited to share the experience of a vacation in their own backyard.

Moving into the 1980s, the company's product line expanded with models that worked in multi-use configurations as hot tubs, whirlpool baths, or both. These models could be installed indoors or outdoors or topside of luxury watercraft. On rare occasions, a Jaccuzi has been installed in a sufficiently-large airplane.

The Jacuzzi/Sundance assembly plant is located in Chino, California. This plant was the first ISO 9001 certified spa production facility in the world. It has the capability of producing up to 300 spas per day for their domestic and export business needs. Their product line has many unique features such as patented jets, rainbow waterfalls, synthetic sun-resistant siding, stereos, ergonomic seating, triple-layered shells, full foam insulation, and a solid A.B.S. pan bottom.

Jacuzzi today is the world's most widely recognized name in jetted baths and spas.

I am not sure exactly where I read the info on 80,000 units produced....you can see by this quote that the factory is geared to build 300 units a day, which is over 109,500. I doubt seriously they would have a facility geared for such volume if they didnt produce somewhere around that number. I'm sorry I cannot find the exact link I located, I beleive it was some stock market site I ran across but I am unable to find it, at least for now. (Side Note) That factory # may include Sundance spas as well...not to mislead...
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Mez on May 07, 2007, 10:35:20 pm
Quote

1) Find out whether that ozone that they inlcuded is UV or preferably the CD type.

2) 80,000? Where did you find that number? C'mon, I'm not so sure I buy that!!!

The ozone is of the corona discharge type, all of their spas contain a built in line ozone injector, the CD unit is optional but according to my dealer, they install them in house on every Jacuzzi they sell without the "optional price"...

Please read my previous post on the factory capacity of 300 spas a day...I should say I mispoke when I said they manufactured over 80,000 spas worldwide, I should have said the plant in California maunfactured over 80,000 spas for sales worldwide.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: The_Pa._Lady on May 07, 2007, 10:43:00 pm

The only way to tell is to wet test the ones you are interested in.  That way you will know which suits you best.  We bought a 2006 Prodigy and are truly happy with this hot tub.  The seating is great, the jets are as strong as you make them.  I like the two back side ones, they are wonderful for your neck and back, and the one on the very bottom center is great for low back pain.  We really have not noticed a great change in our electric bill, possibly $15.00/mo.  No big deal for the comfort of a great spa.  As far as noise goes, I really don't hear anything, even when we are in with the jets turned off, just enjoying the warm water, there is absolutely no noise.  I could go on and on as to why I like our Prodigy, but I guess other spa owners could do the same about their spa.  Good luck on your search.  Let us know which one you choose.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: hottubdan on May 08, 2007, 10:50:08 am
Quote

The ozone is of the corona discharge type, all of their spas contain a built in line ozone injector, the CD unit is optional but according to my dealer, they install them in house on every Jacuzzi they sell without the "optional price"...

Please read my previous post on the factory capacity of 300 spas a day...I should say I mispoke when I said they manufactured over 80,000 spas worldwide, I should have said the plant in California maunfactured over 80,000 spas for sales worldwide.

Production capability:

Even if Wikipedia info is to be accepted as fact following is an extrapolation of what they can produce.  Assumption is 300/day with no hic cups.  Also no holidays.  No shut downs for retooling.  So, you can see the assumptions are going to come up with a number higher than reality.

365 days in a year
104 week end days
261 working days (remember with my assumptions they are working 4th of July, Christmas, Cinco de Mayo ...
300 spas a day
300 * 261 = 78,300

So, even if all goes well, the most that can be built there is <80,000, and that is both Sundance and Jacuzzi as they are both built in the same factory.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: drewstar on May 08, 2007, 11:36:00 am
Interesting.

Watkins manufacturing, which sells the most hot tubs, says this:

" Watkins has manufactured more than 650,000 spas since its inception over 25 years ago."


That works out to be 26000 hot tubs per year.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: hottubdan on May 08, 2007, 12:36:00 pm
Quote
Interesting.

Watkins manufacturing, which sells the most hot tubs, says this:

" Watkins has manufactured more than 650,000 spas since its inception over 25 years ago."


That works out to be 26000 hot tubs per year.

You have to factor in the early years when they were making 1st hundreds, then 1000's.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on May 08, 2007, 12:50:06 pm
 After all this just go try them both and pick which one you like the best.

Form a quality stand point they both work and perform great.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Spatech_tuo on May 08, 2007, 12:50:06 pm
Quote

You have to factor in the early years when they were making 1st hundreds, then 1000's.

Who has got the graph?
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: drewstar on May 08, 2007, 12:58:53 pm
Quote

You have to factor in the early years when they were making 1st hundreds, then 1000's.


Absolutely.

But my point is (reinforcing yours) that the 8000 year number is crazy and 300 per day capacity was probably pulled out of some marketing assistants butt.

 IfWatkins, which represents several lines, and sells the most tubs, has only put out half a million in 25 years,  I doubt Jaquzzi has not even come close to makeing 300 a day. That capacity number is fictious.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Mez on May 08, 2007, 01:57:28 pm
Quote


Absolutely.

But my point is (reinforcing yours) that the 8000 year number is crazy and 300 per day capacity was probably pulled out of some marketing assistants butt.

 IfWatkins, which represents several lines, and sells the most tubs, has only put out half a million in 25 years,  I doubt Jaquzzi has not even come close to makeing 300 a day. That capacity number is fictious.

Okay, to end the debate I called Customer Service at Jacuzzi located in their Chino, CA production facility. She put me in touch with a production manager that told me they have the capacity for 300 per day and have actually exceeded that number before. He said they are currently producing in the neighborhood of the low 200's per day and that number fluctuates depending on time of year, promotions, etc. They do work weekends too Hottubdan so you will need to recalculate your numbers. :)
BUT....lets just say they do 200 per day and work 365 days per year....that still equates to just 73,000 units, not the 80,000 I had originally was quoted.  He did not have access to total units manufactured last year. When you call their customer service, they do claim to be the worlds largest producer of acrylic spas...those numbers do reflect both Jacuzzi and Sundance combined as well.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: drewstar on May 08, 2007, 02:22:29 pm
They make 200 hot tubs a day?  Not stamping out "spa shells" (which could be anything and any size) but complete full sized plumbed  spas?  Assuming round the clock shifts that's  a complete hot tub every 7 minutes or so.

That's ALOT.   I find it hard to belive????????

Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Mez on May 08, 2007, 02:55:53 pm
Quote
They make 200 hot tubs a day?  Not stamping out "spa shells" (which could be anything and any size) but complete full sized plumbed  spas?  Assuming round the clock shifts that's  a complete hot tub every 7 minutes or so.

That's ALOT.   I find it hard to belive????????


I don't find those numbers hard to comprehend...how many cars do you think come off an assembly line daily? I guess we could settle this once and for all since you guys still dont beleive it...send me a round trip plane ticket to Chino, CA and I will go out there with a video camera and check out there facility as well as take photographs of their sales figures in a given year :)
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 08, 2007, 03:07:40 pm
Quote
They make 200 hot tubs a day?  Not stamping out "spa shells" (which could be anything and any size) but complete full sized plumbed  spas?  Assuming round the clock shifts that's  a complete hot tub every 7 minutes or so.

That's ALOT.   I find it hard to belive????????



The faster some companys make somethings,the more mistakes can be made ;)
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Chris_H on May 08, 2007, 03:08:36 pm
Yes, most of the manufacturing plants can do 80,000 spas a year if they run, 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  Watkins does not run 24/7 and neither does the Jacuzzi/Sundance plant.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: drewstar on May 08, 2007, 03:09:16 pm
Honda's european div can kick out 800 cars a day.
Keep in mind that's extreme high production, automation, QA  everthing.


So how spas a year are made?

Watkins is kicking out 50k,. Jaqzzi another 50, that's 100,000,

Haven hot tubs brings it iup to 100,002

Add in all the others and I bet there's several hundred thousand a year being made.I didn't think the market was that big???

Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Gary on May 08, 2007, 04:24:37 pm
There was roughly 350,000 spas sold in North American in 2006.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 08, 2007, 04:33:21 pm
Quote
Haven hot tubs brings it iup to 100,002



thats 100,000 Delivered :) he is still working on the two tubs ;D
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: LtDan on May 08, 2007, 05:51:36 pm
Quote
Honda's european div can kick out 800 cars a day.
Keep in mind that's extreme high production, automation, QA  everthing.


So how spas a year are made?

Watkins is kicking out 50k,. Jaqzzi another 50, that's 100,000,

Haven hot tubs brings it iup to 100,002

Add in all the others and I bet there's several hundred thousand a year being made.I didn't think the market was that big???


(http://www.hdforums.com/upfiles/smiley/funnypostabove.gif)(http://www.hdforums.com/upfiles/smiley/icon_rofl.gif)
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Mendocino101 on May 08, 2007, 08:31:01 pm
I just started reading this.....it is entertaining... ;D but what is the point of it  ::)?....From what I know is that all makers have been down for the past few years and that as Chris pointed plant/production capacity usually means max and thats 24 hour a day production and from what I again I understand is happening with most dare I say all makers is that they are running at far less than max production. I would put a wager down that Jacuzzi brands/Watkins brands numbers combined are "about" 100,000 units annually.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: drewstar on May 09, 2007, 11:20:26 am
The point?

I dunno.  IT started with some funny numbers a shopper heard, we questioned it, and it rolled into a discuion on how many tubs a facotry can spit out.

Just shooting the breeze  as they say.... It's been quiet in here lately.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2007, 11:45:17 am
Quote
They make 200 hot tubs a day?  Not stamping out "spa shells" (which could be anything and any size) but complete full sized plumbed  spas?  Assuming round the clock shifts that's  a complete hot tub every 7 minutes or so.

That's ALOT.   I find it hard to belive????????


Anyone ever watch a tub being plumbed at the factory? I don't think you could plumb 3 jets in 7 minutes... The reality is that it can take hours!
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: drewstar on May 09, 2007, 11:54:09 am
Quote

Anyone ever watch a tub being plumbed at the factory? I don't think you could plumb 3 jets in 7 minutes... The reality is that it can take hours!


Not 7 minutes to make a tub, but every 7 minutes a tub is completed. But those are just averages.

It's more like 300 new tubs could be put into production each day, while 300 are completed.  what type of facility and manpower would you need to do that? and how loaded would the line need to be (fully ramped).

I have a feeling the stats are more like

"We have the CAPACITY to ASSEMBLE 300 tubs a day."   which is quite different than

Each day we make 300 tubs (from shell to being wrapped on a truck).
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2007, 12:06:37 pm
Quote


Not 7 minutes to make a tub, but every 7 minutes a tub is completed. But those are just averages.


It was just a weak attempt at humor....  ;)
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Mendocino101 on May 09, 2007, 06:39:37 pm
Quote
The point?

I dunno.  IT started with some funny numbers a shopper heard, we questioned it, and it rolled into a discuion on how many tubs a facotry can spit out.

Just shooting the breeze  as they say.... It's been quiet in here lately.


lol...I did not mean to sound like it was not enjoyable, I was just trying to figure out if I was missing something, ( no comments needed... ;)....)But again I will say that the Industry as a whole has been down. We do a weekly radio show here in so cal and we had a guest on today who mentioned that a spa is still a mighty fine addition to someones life with all of the benefits that they offer. I am just sadden by some of the ways some do business and I think that this is something that hurts all in the industry.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: guyplayeur on May 11, 2007, 12:15:58 am
This thread went on an interesting side trip, but let me see if I can divert it back to its original intent...or in other words, can we talk about me again?  :P

After reading all the threads on this forum, I really wish I had the space for a J-345!  Lots of good love on this forum for that one.

So to recap, I've got 3 deals I'm considering:  A Hot Springs Prodigy for $7895, a Jacuzzi J-325 for $7295, and a Jacuzzi J-460 for $9395.  All prices include steps, cover, ozone, lifter, chemicals.

I'm going to wet test the Prodigy this weekend, and the Jacuzzis a little later.

The Jacuzzi has a 10-year warranty for shell, vs. a 7-year warranty for the Hot Spring.  Should I consider that in my choice?  Or after that many years is that basically a wash?

After reading these posts it looks like even living in the SF Bay Area, I could be doing better on price for the Jacuzzi's.  Jacuzzi Jim, would you back that up?

I think I'm leaning toward the Prodigy, based on the silence of the heaters when not in use compared to the louder Jacuzzi, even with the custom timing options of the Jacuzzi.

The worst part of this whole thing is that I'm probably at least 2 months away from soaking considering the yard prep work I've got to schedule, and after reading all of the spatopia stories up here, it's killing me to wait!

Anyway, thanks for whatever additional advice anyone out there can offer, and thanks for keeping up this forum.  It's great!  Hopefully I'll have pics worthy of posting here someday.

-sam
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: hottubdan on May 11, 2007, 01:45:34 am
One thing to consider is you can run the Prodigy on 110v.  Saves you money.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Chad on May 11, 2007, 04:59:08 am
Guy as you know I'm a very happy J-345 owner. I visited my dealer today to get some chems and my buddy who sold me my tub was working the floor. He showed me all the prices for their '07s. There's some wiggle room on that 325 but the 460 price is good. $8K is high for the Prodigy as well. I'm sorry if I missed it, but why can you not get a larger tub. When spending that kind of money($8k+), I'd want a bigger tub or one that is better equiped. Are you limited to just HS and Jacuzzi?

You mention that you can hear a difference when the heaters are on between the 325 and Prodigy.  :-? I can not hear a thing when my is on. There's only a click when it turns on and that's it.

Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: drewstar on May 11, 2007, 08:52:12 am
I doubt he ment "heaters" but rather the pumps.


The FF tubs are quieter.   That's not to say the TP tubs are unbearably noisely,  but it's  a slight difference and advantage to the FF.  If the tub was going on a deck, I'd put a little more stock in the FF to dampen the sound and viabration than TP.  
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: leaky on May 11, 2007, 09:50:54 am
Guyplayuer,

Not to muddy the water, but you could also check out Beachcomber at:

The Backyard Factory
280 Arthur Rd.
Martinez CA 94553
 
Tel:  925-551-4171

They're a little smaller and made in Canada, and don't have all the flash or bells & whistles.  But I've had my 700 series for close to two years, and love it.  They're ROCK solid, and with a family all over 5' 9" and growing, I appreciate the 38" depth.


Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Gary on May 11, 2007, 10:26:31 am
Quote
One thing to consider is you can run the Prodigy on 110v.  Saves you money.


Possibly can save money on the installation but it will have no affect on operating cost.

I am sure that is what you meant, but not all would understand.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: hottubdan on May 11, 2007, 10:30:24 am
Quote


Possibly can save money on the installation but it will have no affect on operating cost.

I am sure that is what you meant, but not all would understand.

Thanks for clarifying. ;)
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: guyplayeur on May 11, 2007, 10:41:51 am
I'm limited to a small tub simply because the space it's going in is just too small to fit anything bigger without completely overwhelming the yard.

Also, whoever built this house was clearly thinking hot tub at some point because there's what appears to be a 220V outlet already in place back there.  Or is it 230V or 240V?  If anyone can explain the difference to me I'd appreciate that.  I see that higher voltage outlet referred to differently depending on who's printing it.

I chose Hot Springs and Jacuzzi simply because they seem to be the most reliable/dependable/solid brands.   I'm looking for as much bells and whistles, warranty, and reliability I can get in a 7x6 tub.  If there are other brands out there that aren't going to give me problems, I'm all for it.

EDIT:  I looked at Beachcombers just now.  Nearest dealer is about 90 minutes away.  Too far for me.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Micah on May 11, 2007, 01:28:27 pm
Quote
I doubt he ment "heaters" but rather the pumps.


The FF tubs are quieter.   That's not to say the TP tubs are unbearably noisely,  but it's  a slight difference and advantage to the FF.  If the tub was going on a deck, I'd put a little more stock in the FF to dampen the sound and viabration than TP.  
Drewster, Both jacuzzi and H.S. are FF.  I think the noise coment came from a salesman pushing one brand of spas. From what I can tell both Jacuzzi and H. S. use a "Laing Style" circ pump and both are totaly silent while heating.  
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: guyplayeur on May 11, 2007, 03:57:52 pm
Sorry, but what do TP and FF stand for?  

As I understand it, the Jacuzzis have some pumps that do something for a recommended 20 minutes, 4 times a day.  Not sure if it's heating or cleaning or what's going on during those cycles, but that process was definitely not silent.  

I was told the timing of those cycles could be customized so as not to interfere with sleeping times (the tub will be right outside an open window to my bedroom, so noise is a concern), but I'm sure it's more ideal for tub maintenance to spread those cycles out evenly.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: hottubdan on May 11, 2007, 04:18:28 pm
Quote
Sorry, but what do TP and FF stand for?  

As I understand it, the Jacuzzis have some pumps that do something for a recommended 20 minutes, 4 times a day.  Not sure if it's heating or cleaning or what's going on during those cycles, but that process was definitely not silent.  

I was told the timing of those cycles could be customized so as not to interfere with sleeping times (the tub will be right outside an open window to my bedroom, so noise is a concern), but I'm sure it's more ideal for tub maintenance to spread those cycles out evenly.

TP is Thermal Pane, a method of insulating which blows foam on the shell and cabinet and relies on dead air space to insulate.

FF is full foam, where the entire cavity between the shell and the cabinet are filled with insulation.

You can search and find the continuing debate of FF vs TP.

Hot Spring, in fact, uses multiple layers of closed cell foam to totally insulate, creating an average R rating of 40.

The Jacuzzi running 4 times a day is a circulation/filtration function, not heating.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Micah on May 11, 2007, 04:38:35 pm
The Jacuzzi can be programed to run "up to" 4 times a day but comes programed to run twice a day for 30 minutes.  This is for "extra" filtration on top of the silent pump that filters 15,000 gallons per day.  You can set what times you want to run the extra filteration (usualy while you are at work). Perhaps a H.S. guy can correct me if I'm wrong, but I belive that H.S. uses the same principle for its filteration. (circ pump all day with a jet pump for extra)If so the noise will be the same on both units.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: guyplayeur on May 11, 2007, 04:38:42 pm
Oh, boy.  There you go, dropping another acronym on me :o  What's an R rating?
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: guyplayeur on May 11, 2007, 04:58:47 pm
One more:  I just found out a friend nearby bought a J-325 in 2005 from the same dealer I'm shopping at for $4795 + $800 for all the standard accessories (cover, lifter, ozone, chemicals).  
Basically $1,700 less than I was offered last week.  Anyone know how significantly the J-325 model specs changed in the last two years to justify the increase?  Or should I haggle the price down some more if I go for that Jacuzzi?  
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: hottubdan on May 11, 2007, 05:01:27 pm
Quote
Oh, boy.  There you go, dropping another acronym on me :o  What's an R rating?

Here is a definition from the web:

"A designation for the determining the insulation capabilities of different types of building materials and insulation materials. Standard R Factors for mobile offices in insulation would be R-11 or R-19 in the ceiling and floor, R-11 in the sidewalls"

Maybe someone else can help here.

For Micah, Hot Spring does not have or need extra filtration cycles.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 11, 2007, 05:24:00 pm
Quote


For Micah, Hot Spring does not have or need extra filtration cycles.


Do you know why they need less??
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on May 11, 2007, 05:39:33 pm
 In the J-300 series you can zero out the filtration with the programing by setting it  to F0 that will do 1  5 minute blow out cycle every 24 hours no big deal anytime pump 1 is running it is filtering as well as the circ pump.

 Or you can set it to F1 which is 1 hour per day or 1  30 min cycle of filtration every 12 hours once again no big deal.

  In the 400 series all that is really needed is the high flo circ pump to filter and nothing else as far as filtration modes go.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: Mez on May 11, 2007, 10:28:13 pm
Quote
One more:  I just found out a friend nearby bought a J-325 in 2005 from the same dealer I'm shopping at for $4795 + $800 for all the standard accessories (cover, lifter, ozone, chemicals).  
Basically $1,700 less than I was offered last week.  Anyone know how significantly the J-325 model specs changed in the last two years to justify the increase?  Or should I haggle the price down some more if I go for that Jacuzzi?  

If you can squeeze in an extra 8 inches...84X84 is the J-345...the J-325 is 76X84....I would reccomend you take a good look at the J-345. That extra 8 inches doesnt seem like much but it is. The difference between the "05 and the "07 models are manly bells and whistles, new LED lighting, lighted cup holders, lighted headrests, but it also has an improved design on the filter shield. If I do my math correctly, you were offered an "07 325 for $7295 with delivery, chems, cover, lifter and ozone..is that correct? If so, here in Cincinnati, I ordered an "07 J-345 with chems, cover, lifter, steps, ozone, lifter and delivery for $6,495. List price was $7995 minus $1000 for the new model introduction sale and I negotiated another $500 off that. Total with sales tax was just shy of $7000.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: tony on May 12, 2007, 10:07:18 am
Quote


Do you know why they need less??

HotSpring spas utilize a no bypass filtration system.  The theory is filtration is handled by the circ pump and the jet pumps while they are on if someone is using the spa.  All pumps have a filter on them, thus the term no bypass.  For extra filtration when needed, there is a "clean button" that runs one of the main pumps for ten minutes.

Jacuzzi filters with its circ pump and one of the therapy pumps running at programmed intervals.  When the therapy pumps are run on high, the filter is "bypassed" to give optimal water volume to all the jets.

Both filtration systems work well.  The HotSpring spas use more filters...something to consider because filters need to be cleaned on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Hot Springs Prodigy vs. Jacuzzi J-325
Post by: 104 degrees on May 12, 2007, 04:34:54 pm
Quote

HotSpring spas utilize a no bypass filtration system.  The theory is filtration is handled by the circ pump and the jet pumps while they are on if someone is using the spa.  All pumps have a filter on them, thus the term no bypass.  For extra filtration when needed, there is a "clean button" that runs one of the main pumps for ten minutes.

Jacuzzi filters with its circ pump and one of the therapy pumps running at programmed intervals.  When the therapy pumps are run on high, the filter is "bypassed" to give optimal water volume to all the jets.

Both filtration systems work well.  The HotSpring spas use more filters...something to consider because filters need to be cleaned on a regular basis.


Thank you tony :) You learn everyday :)