Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: kenoflife on February 19, 2007, 11:06:48 pm
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I'm about to get a 1998 HS Jetsetter - the man selling it got a new one, its been thoroughly checked out and
looks real good for $1000 - got the electric set, the site, figured out how to move it...but...
The local HS dealer is really up on the Baqua - but nearly everything I've read about it on the users sites on the internet has been negative - if not now, later - with algae, scum, etc..
The dealer says its about following directions precisely once a week, then no more problem. The guy selling the
tub said he tried it years ago and encountered scum and problems.
I went to the dealer today(who nearly everyone thinks is extremely reputable compared to anyone else in the region) and wound up with $65 worth of the baqua system...
Has anyone had a positive experience using baqua on a small hot tub....for years on end? :-?
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The 1998 Jetsetter had a one-piece light lens made out of polycarbonate.
Baqua eats polycarb plastics. Unless the tub has had a new lens put in which has the three-piece arrangement, you should NOT use Baqua.
I have had customers who have had the lens fall apart from the Baqua who loved the Baqua so much that they gladly paid me to come out and update the lens. Had no choice really, once the lens goes there is no replacement other than the update. Not a bad thing, really - it updates the tub to match the brand new tubs on the showroom floor, and it is no harder to glue in the new lens holder than it was to glue in the old one-piece lens.
I just did one in a Classic in the shop. I don't know if the PO had used Baqua, but my delivery crew thought the tub was going to the dump and they tossed a heavy wooden step into the tub and drove it home that way. Cracked the light lens. Everything else in the tub works great, so I put in a new lens, and the tub is for sale.
And, in the unlikely event that you crack the new lens, you can unscrew the lens from the wallfitting and replace just the lens without tools. Tres cool.
But - if the PO used Baqua and your tub has the one-piece lens, you will have to replace the lens sooner or later, I assure you.
8-)
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Yes - he did try baqua and didn't like it...AND he did replace the lens!
Strike 4 on baqua it would seem.
The PO (almost reads a little like POS, not sure about that abbreviation!) used just a little
chlorine with the tub the last few years, no ozonator.
His new Jetsetter has an ozonator, he's actually not sure he likes it as much as the old one...
(How come people selling you their old things often say how much they already miss them?)
The old tub was emptied and cleaned by the HS dealers when they delivered his new one.
At this stage I was considering also buying an ozonator and the T-attachment, etc.
From the little research I did the JED sounded good, the HS dealer has one with the kit
and attachment for $150 - which seems reasonable.
When I return the baqua system I could apply it to an ozonator...might be nice to just
have that to start off - then there's less of a daily chlorine check need, correct?
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I'd suggest a little research before committing to a sanitizing routine or ozone. There was a good thread on ozone here, started by Vermonter a few months ago, and several discussions on sanitizers, including Baqua. A search with an expanded time frame should bring them up. Also, go to rhtubs.com -- there are sanitizer guides, along with posts by Vermonter and Northman in the FAQ that are good places to start.
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This rocks! New members with questions, veterans with great experience, and people helping each other! I feel all warm and fuzzy! (Maybe that was the tub soak.....)
Anyway- kenoflife, I think that you'll find that the huge majority of people here use chlorine or bromine, some ozone, and they are all happy with the simplicity and cost effectiveness of such sanitation.
Enjoy your new tub!
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I used Baqua- my dealer pushed it too. We had the grunge line thing happen, but it gradually went away after a couple months, and then no problems. What did cause problems was the way it made the water "fizzy" and we'd sit there and cough like we both had a 40 year old 3 pack a day Pall Mall habbit. Plus the stuff is rather expensive.
Neither the dealer or Baqua themselves we of any help in getting us to use the product right. Went from Baqua to Bromine, then to dichlor. Of the three, dichlor is the easiest for us.
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The biggest problem with Baqua Spa - or any Biguanide product for pools OR spas - is the tendancy for people to use too much. With biguanide, even a little extra is not a good thing.
I've read about the new Hot Spring Auto Fresh, and maybe that would work better for those who want biguanide. It is supposed to keep you from overdosing.
Personally, I prefer the Dichlor method. It, for me, is just so much simpler AND cheaper. I like the way the water looks. When I take care of it properly, I don't smell any chlorine, so I like that too.
It eventually comes down to preference. I would imagine the overwhelming preference is Dichlor.
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... I would imagine the overwhelming preference is Dichlor.
Based on what you read here, I'd have thought so, too. However, someone started a survey of the pros here a while ago (perhaps a year or more). Surprisingly, it was closer to an even split between bromine and chlorine. :-/
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Baqua eats polycarb plastics. Unless the tub has had a new lens put in which has the three-piece arrangement, you should NOT use Baqua.
It constantly amases me what I've learned about hot tubs since 'joining' this forum.
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I'm definitely going to try chlor first...
funny the dealer said to just try baqua for 3 months and see, and then it would be easy to switch back and
buy an ozonator....but from all I've been reading switching back from baqua can be some work too...
The only question I have is whether to go ahead and get that JED ozonator before I even fill up the tub for the first time, or if a small tub like this is just as well served by just using chlor...seems like an ozonator should be installed before the water goes in?
Thanks for all the comments for a newbie :D
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...The only question I have is whether to go ahead and get that JED ozonator before I even fill up the tub for the first time, or if a small tub like this is just as well served by just using chlor...seems like an ozonator should be installed before the water goes in?
You can install an ozonator any time you drain the tub for a water change, so you've got time to get a little experience and do some more research before making the decision on ozone.
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A good tech can install an ozone system on a HS spa without draining it.
However, I don't think the '98 models had the contact chamber. That limits the effectiveness of the ozone - you can create one by putting a 12' coil of 1/2" spa flex in the motor compartment.
Also be aware that the JED units and units like it have a chip or chamber which needs to be replaced at 9000 hours of operation. That's about once every year or so.
8-)
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Yes - I saw how the tube has to be wound around to fit in there....
Since you're a HS dealer....
The JED unit has a chip, does the HS $300 one (Freshwater III or something?) somehow justify
its cost by lasting much longer between chips or units.
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you've got time to get a little experience and do some more research before making the decision on ozone.
I don't hear too many negatives about ozone? Except maybe the smell, toxicity - but that seems real minimal
if you open the tub for a minute...and compared to using more chemicals....
Guess there'd be a decision about which ozonator....
Any other negatives? Does the water feel different, smell different?
Or maybe a link.....can't get the search going just right here...
Thanks!
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I don't want to re-open that can of worms, other than to say it isn't as clear cut as you portray it. I bumped a thread "Ozone Question" for you to take a look at. I'm guessing there are others in the "Dead Horse" section.
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thanks, I read it through a couple of times....
think I'll wait on the ozonator and just see how the hot tub is working w/ dichlor..
now to figure out the 'vermonter method' - the guy before me just added a teaspoon of chlorine
after each evening soak....he said it was at "zero" when he would test it before getting in again.
I think he also did something with the calcium level....
Not sure about doing the chlorine shock....the N2?.....and the alternative to dichlor (MPS or something
or other - 4 letters) thats used
for the accentuated dose...guess there's more research to do....seems like there's insider references here
and there to products I don't understand...
Like to keep it simple, and yet - safe!
Mostly its just myself and 2 small boys (7 and 9), and maybe a girlfriend to come.... ::)
And we don't have much b.o. or use skin things..
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You need something to test your levels with. I like Test Strips the best, others have preferences which shall come up soon I'm sure.
You need to test pH, TA and Chlorine levels.
The pH and TA usually go up and down together, and are treated together. The pH level is a scale from acid to base, and if you keep your spa water at 7.4 it will be easier on your eyes, your skin, and it will allow the chlorine to do it's job most effectively. Too high and you get calcium buildup, too low and you bad things happen to pumps, heaters and skin.
I put in a tablespoon of Dichlor as I get out of the spa, each time I use it. That way if I skip a day or two I really don't need Dichlor anyway, and the level does drop to zero by time I go to use it next time. If I go a week without use, I go out and hit it with two or three tablespoons of Dichlor for good measure.
BTW "Dichlor" is a shortened version of the name for Sodium Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione Dihydrate. I hope I got that right - too tired to Google it. That is a type of Chlorine, not a brand. It is the ONLY type of chlorine you want to use in a hot tub.
8-)
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now to figure out the 'vermonter method' - the guy before me just added a teaspoon of chlorine after each evening soak....he said it was at "zero" when he would test it before getting in again. I think he also did something with the calcium level....Not sure about doing the chlorine shock....the N2?.....and the alternative to dichlor (MPS or somethingor other - 4 letters) thats used for the accentuated dose...guess there's more research to do....seems like there's insider references here and there to products I don't understand...
rhtubs.com has a wealth of info on these topics. You have to poke around a bit, some of it is in guides in the drop-down menus, others in the FAQ (that is where the Vermonter method is outlined) or info boxes, and some in the on-line store. Another good resource is the Taylor book available separately or with the testing kit, if you decide to go that route instead of strips. Good luck.
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kenoflife,
I can give you a summary of my routine, may help with your understanding. Note that you need to experiment and find out what works for your tub, water and use.
First a couple of basics. My tub is 330 gallons, you'll need to adjust doses for the size of your tub. Second when you dose with any chemical always run all of the jets 5-10 minutes with all valves set to open (middle position for diverters) so all water in the tub is circulated and all parts of the tub plumbing get exposed to the chemical (most important for your dichlor doses).
At startup I balance PH and ALK. My PH and ALK always lean toward the low side so I pretty much only raise them. I use baking soda for this. About 1-2 tablespoons and wait 24 hours to check again. 1 tablespoon of dichlor also at startup.
After each use I add about 1-2 teaspoons (1/2 tablespoon) of dichlor. The plan is to get your free chlorine reading to about 3-5ppm. If you have ozone and/or N2 you might lean more towards 3ppm than 5ppm.
The plan is that with Vermonter's method you are expecting your FC level to get down near zero the next time you soak (assuming about 24 hour soak intervals). The key there is to not let your tub stay at zero PPM FC for very long. Anytime your tub is at zero ppm FC bacteria can start growing and they multiply rapidly in the warm moist environment of a hot tub.
If you don't use your tub for a while you want to periodically check and be sure you have residual FC at all times. If I know I won't use my tub for a while I'll put in 1 or 2 tablespoons, then the residual FC will stay around longer.
About every 1-2 weeks I'll shock. Shocking oxidizes out the combined chlorines (chlorine that has killed something) and other organic contaminants.
You have basically two options for shocking in a dichlor routine, MPS or dichlor.
MPS is easier, you don't have to reach a breakpoint level like you do with dichlor and you can use the tub 30 minutes after an MPS shock. MPS adds more to your total dissolved solids though, so you might need to change your water more frequently. I use about 1-2 tablespoons of MPS when I shock.
With a dichlor shock you should have some idea of the combined chlorine level in your tub. I think the Taylor test kit suggests that the breakpoint chlorination is achieved at 10x your CC level. Vermonter suggests you use 4-7 times your normal dose. At breakpoint chlorination the chlorine level oxidizes the combined chlorines. If you don't get to that level you won't oxidize your CC. An added benefit of a dichlor shock is you are super sanitizing your tub. Another downside is you have to wait for your FC level to come back down to normal before you use your tub, that could take a day or two.
I'll normally shock with MPS but maybe once a month or so I'll shock with dichlor so I get the super sanitizing effect.
That's about it. Rarely but occasionally I'll add a little foam down or clarifier if I have a specific problem to address. These things are not normally part of my routine though, they'll add to your total dissolved solids.
You may have specific water issues that could warrant you using something like metal gone or other additives. My water is pretty well conditioned out of the tap so I don't need any of that stuff.
Good luck and I hope this helps somewhat. If not just ask, everything I have learned was from the good folks here, so I am sure you will get answers to any questions you have.
Steve
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thanks, that was very helpful! :)
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The Baquaspa rep just left my store. She's a honeybear with a fast car.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/baquarep.jpg)
Terminator
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Have her stop by, maybe I'll reconsider baqua.... ;)
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does she have a hemi?
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does she have a hemi?
No sir. She told me if she did have a Hemi, she would probably be in jail right now.
Term
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I have used Baqua Spa since 1998 in my Jet Setter spa and it works great. Simple and easy to use once a week testing. Keeps the water crystal clear. You will need to hose the filters off every couple weeks and drain the spa every three months. You don't have to use an ozone unit with Baqua there is no benefit to ozone. Besides with the ozone bubbling up from the bottom drain will oxidize the underside of cover and spa pillows.
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The Baquaspa rep just left my store. She's a honeybear with a fast car.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/baquarep.jpg)
Terminator
She probably needs a fast car to outrun irate Baqua users. ;)