Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: dax on May 03, 2007, 10:33:58 pm
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In the market for a hot tub this summer. Anyone here familiar with Thermospas? Infomercial and brochure make it sound like a well designed tub, but I don't see many user reviews on the net about them. Anyone look at them or own one? Thanks in advance!
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I haven't found any reviews here, but you might find some at www.rhtubs.com.
I can't possibly speak for everyone here, but the consensus I've heard about thermospas is that their sales tactics leave a lot to be desired. You have to sit through a long presentation before you get to a price, which is only good right there and then (always a bad sign). It also just so happens that they have the spa you're looking for, and there's just one left at a special price (also a bad sign). I think they will come to your house and do a presentation for free, so it couldn't hurt- just go into it with your eyes open.
Also, one of the main objections to Thermospas is that you usually can't wet test them. A wet test is vital.
I can't speak for their manufacturing or engineering, but in general I think most people don't think highly of them from a quality standpoint.
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Avoid ThermoSpas like the PLAGUE! They are SIGNIFICANTLY overpriced (even after the "you have to sign NOW to get this price" sales tactics. The REASON they pressure you to sign during the first visit is because often people have not yet compared and don't realize what the other options are out there or what the other tubs sell for (usually THOUSANDS less than ThermoSpa for the same size).
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In the market for a hot tub this summer. Anyone here familiar with Thermospas? Infomercial and brochure make it sound like a well designed tub, but I don't see many user reviews on the net about them. Anyone look at them or own one? Thanks in advance!
Too bad their spas aren't half as good as their infomercials and brochures!
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On my TV, I see the same commercial, "Reason #11 to own a Thermospa" I have yet to see reasons 1-10. Remember Henry Block and his 30 reasons to get your taxes done at H&R Block. I slapped that out of him. Maybe I should do the same for the CEO of Thermo.
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Here's a good place to start your research:
http://www.connecticut.bbb.org/commonreport.html?bureau=walling&compid=25002672&language=&code=
Terminator
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Thanks for the quick replies! Guess if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Really liked their Park Avenue spa with a double wide lounge. Any other spas have such a feature? Any recommendations on a 5-person spa with lounge?
Hope to go looking this weekend for something locally. Thanks again!
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Thanks for the quick replies! Guess if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Really liked their Park Avenue spa with a double wide lounge. Any other spas have such a feature? Any recommendations on a 5-person spa with lounge?
Hope to go looking this weekend for something locally. Thanks again!
Off the top of my head, I think Dimension 1 has a lounger like that. (Its been 4 years since I shopped)
Where do you live?
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Hey Dax,
Yea, the Tspas on TV get folks attention for folks not familliar with spas, but if you do a little research, you'll find there's a lot of high quality spas out there by some very reputable companies. I gurentee you'll be able to find a better spa than Thermospa at a better price. :)
Thermal spas have a rep for a lot of overpriced gimmicky spas filled with tons of tiny little jets. Too many of these can be uncormfortable, and you want a variety of jets in the tub.
Don't buy on jet count and/or HP of the motors alone. Buy on the massage expereince and how the jets feel to you and fit your body.
1) look around and shop the major dealers in your area. Wet test and compare across brands so you can get a sense of what fits you best and the different jetting.
2) Despite the sexy Thermalspa ads, TVs and all the stuff really are just qimicks. (pop up TV's Ice buckets outrageous jet counts). Some folks really want an in spa steroe, and you'll pay big $$ to get one, but many folks focus on the quality of the spa, it's jets and seating layout and energy efficecy. Don't let the bells and whistles distract you. All the major spa companies will have them, but hoenstly most folks pass on them.
3) Research the dealer, and once again Wet test. Wet Test and Wet test.
4) Look for a spa that has a vairety of seats and jets. The double lounger in the thermal Spa? eh. Gimmick. Most folks don't even want a lounger. ;) Wet test a few for youself and see if you like it. Some folks float out of them, some folks don't want to waste the space in the spa, and some folks do like them. Wet test (not dry test,) for yourself and find out what you like.
Some of the more popular names to look at would be: Hot Springs, Caldera. Sundance, Jaqucizzi, Artic, Dimension One.
Stay away from internet dealers, Ebay, and cheap spas from The big box stores. :)
Have fun too.
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I have a Thermospa Park Avenue. we had it delivered almost exactly one year ago. We love it. I will say though that their tubs are overpriced. You can however get them down dramatically in price though. If you decide to purchase one, DO NOT accept any price the day they come to your home. Definately, look around to see what other companies sell before you buy any tub If you are interested in their tub the day they come out, make them an offer of 50% to 60% of their price that is "only good for that day". When they say no, shake hands and leave it at that. A sales manager or someone will call you within a few days and make an offer back of about 75% of their original sale price. Stick to your guns, DO NOT accept this offer either. I know it sounds inconcieveable but you should be able to get them down 65%-75% of their original price. I see the only problem with Thermospas is that they have high pressure sales tactics and they are overpriced, but if you like their tubs, you can get them down on price to be competitive with other high quality tubs. IMHO
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I have a Thermospa Park Avenue. we had it delivered almost exactly one year ago. We love it. I will say though that their tubs are overpriced. You can however get them down dramatically in price though. If you decide to purchase one, DO NOT accept any price the day they come to your home. Definately, look around to see what other companies sell before you buy any tub If you are interested in their tub the day they come out, make them an offer of 50% to 60% of their price that is "only good for that day". When they say no, shake hands and leave it at that. A sales manager or someone will call you within a few days and make an offer back of about 75% of their original sale price. Stick to your guns, DO NOT accept this offer either. I know it sounds inconcieveable but you should be able to get them down 65%-75% of their original price. I see the only problem with Thermospas is that they have high pressure sales tactics and they are overpriced, but if you like their tubs, you can get them down on price to be competitive with other high quality tubs. IMHO
I would LOVE to deal with a company that is trying to sell me a product for 75% more than they need to! It gives me a real warm and gushy feeling to be treated that way! ::) Yepper... gives me great confidence in the product and the overall company and the level of support I could come to expect! GREAT CHOICE!
Thermospas exist because some people just don't care about how they are treated even when it comes to big ticket, luxury items!!
It's called ETHICS and most of us choose to deal with a company that embraces that concept...
Steve
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I f need service with Thermal spas, should I refuse the first offer and wait for them to call back with a better time and lower service fee? ::)
"Ok, I know we told you we can't be there until next Friday, and it will be $75 for the service call, but I just spoke to my division manager, and he says' a lady in Sandusky just cancelled, so we can be there tomorrow, and if agree right now to take this call tomorrow, and tomorrow only, it will be $35, and will toss in a new filter!
;D
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I would LOVE to deal with a company that is trying to sell me a product for 75% more than they need to! It gives me a real warm and gushy feeling to be treated that way! ::) Yepper... gives me great confidence in the product and the overall company and the level of support I could come to expect! GREAT CHOICE!
Thermospas exist because some people just don't care about how they are treated even when it comes to big ticket, luxury items!!
It's called ETHICS and most of us choose to deal with a company that embraces that concept...
Steve
I figured that since the original question was related to experiences with Thermospas and their tubs in general, that I would post my experience and what I think of my tub and their company. I say that any company (whether it sells Hot tubs, cars, boats, houses, land or whatever the case maybe) that puts a higher price on their product knowing that you are going to try to get them down on price is in reality "overpricing" their product. I will bet that you didn't pay asking price for your tub, thinking that the price they gave to was a good price. I bet you wanted to counter offer them and get them down to their bottom dollar. Who cares what the starting price is if you can get them down to what you are willing to pay.
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I f need service with Thermal spas, should I refuse the first offer and wait for them to call back with a better time and lower service fee? ::)
"Ok, I know we told you we can't be there until next Friday, and it will be $75 for the service call, but I just spoke to my division manager, and he says' a lady in Sandusky just cancelled, so we can be there tomorrow, and if agree right now to take this call tomorrow, and tomorrow only, it will be $35, and will toss in a new filter!
;D
Drew, I know that I am rather new here. I read alot of your posts, and appreciate your advise on SPA care and other issues. but negotiating a price for buying anything doesn't mean negotiating price for service. I know you are not serious with the comment but so many things in life we be, we negotiate on price for and then down the road things need service. I personally treat service differently than the original purchase. Not to mention it will be a while before I have to pay for any service since I bought the Thermospa with the 10 year full warranty and 20 year shell warranty.
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I figured that since the original question was related to experiences with Thermospas and their tubs in general, that I would post my experience and what I think of my tub and their company. I say that any company (whether it sells Hot tubs, cars, boats, houses, land or whatever the case maybe) that puts a higher price on their product knowing that you are going to try to get them down on price is in reality "overpricing" their product. I will bet that you didn't pay asking price for your tub, thinking that the price they gave to was a good price. I bet you wanted to counter offer them and get them down to their bottom dollar. Who cares what the starting price is if you can get them down to what you are willing to pay.
I will gladly share my personal experience of over a decade in spa sales with you.
As consumers, we have come to expect some room for negotiation on "some" items that we purchase. Agreed. When selling Beachcomber, our prices were our prices and we added value through factory promotions which we purchased for less and passed these savings on to the consumer. If someone thought our prices were high, we either didn't do a good job of showing the value of our spas or they haven't researched spas enough to make that decision.
Some companies tend to increase their suggested retail to make room for some negotiation but to attempt to defend a company that increases that suggested retail by up to 75% (your words not mine) is FREAKING OBSURD & ILLOGICAL!! If you feel good with that, have at 'er buddy boy. Most educated consumers have a breaking point where they feel that the company may be attempting to rip them off and in most instances, that's long before the 65 - 75% mark!
WHO CARES what the starting price is? Most all of us...
Don't get me wrong...I'm glad you enjoy your spa and I hope you do for many years but to suggest that this is an ethical way to conduct business is ludicrous.
Steve
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Spare,
You're right I was joking, but I was trying also to illustrate a point about spas. One of the major laments of spa shoppers is the pricing and the negotating. Thermal Spas is notorious for it. How comfortable can you be and trusting of a company that just a few days ago was more than happy to take several thousand dollars from you? To me that's unacceptable and dishonest. We're not talking about a car dealer that upsold you on the undercoating, or another spa company salesman that's happy he got full asking price; $800 over what he was willing to go to, we are talking about a national company that comes to your home, and these sales folks will look you in the eye and sell you a spa for that they sold yesterday for 6500 to you for $15000.00 just because they can take advantage of someone's ignorance. They will take thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars from you because they can.
I welcome Thermal Spa owners here. I think the greater variery of product owners we have, the better the comunity. I hope you didn't take my negative posts about Tspas personally towards yourself (we all get defensive about our own spas...hey, we are all here because we love spas).
Most of the Thermal customers who have come by say they like thier spas, but complain about the pricing.
I am all for a making a profit, but a company that sells a tub to Mrs Smith for double, just because she was an easy mark...I can't get behind that company and feel the salesperson who did that is a snake and a thief.
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There’s making a reasonable profit to maintain business, and then there’s price gouging! There is a distinct difference in business ethics between those two comparisons.
We hear all of these stories about the elderly getting ripped off with home improvement scams and so on... How is THIS any different? Until they change their ways of attempting to screw the general public and their high pressure BS, I don't care how good the product may be, they should not be supported by anyone!
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Don't get me wrong...I'm glad you enjoy your spa and I hope you do for many years but to suggest that this is an ethical way to conduct business is ludicrous.
Steve
I never said it was ethical what they do as far as pricing, nor did I say that any company that does this a little or in Thermospas case alot was unethical. I just stated that in any purchase like this you have to get the seller "You" down to your bottom dollar. I even pointed out in my original response that I didn't like the pricing structure of Thermospas. But, because I was smart enough to negotiate them down to their bottom dollar, I got the tub I wanted, and I love it.
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There's making a healthy profit, and then theres down right raping the customer, kicking them, and raiding the refrigerator on the way out!
I know you could walk into Terms, or Chas, or Serjical or Toms (and just about any other dealer here) and say
I know nothing at all about spas. Which one do I want and how much. And NONE of these guys would sell you a $5000.00 spa for $150000.00. Even Steve, who has been called "the most unethical spa salesmen in the history of the world" * ;) woudn't do that.
* steve is not the most unethical spa salesman in the world, but was accused of that by an insane thief in colorado. Steve's a nice guy who speaks his mind.
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Steve and Drew, I hear what you guys are saying. I guess I never thought of Thermospas that way as taking advantage of other people who were unsuspecting of the overpricing. I have been very happy this past year knowing that I got the tub for what I negotiated them to. Thanks for opening my eyes to watch out for companies like this in the future. Anyway, I still love my Park Avenue tub.
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Steve and Drew, I hear what you guys are saying. I guess I never thought of Thermospas that way as taking advantage of other people who were unsuspecting of the overpricing. I have been very happy this past year knowing that I got the tub for what I negotiated them to. Thanks for opening my eyes to watch out for companies like this in the future. Anyway, I still love my Park Avenue tub.
Thats why we need you stick around and tell folks first hand what your experinces are. :) Both the good and the bad so folks can get the tub that's right for them.
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Not to mention it will be a while before I have to pay for any service since I bought the Thermospa with the 10 year full warranty and 20 year shell warranty.
I’ve got a couple comments on their warranty, at least what their site posts. From their website:
"All of the plumbing, including the pump, the blower and even the spa heater are covered under our 10 year [glow]pro-rated[/glow] warranty."
It appears the controls may not be prorated but other important items like plumbing, heaters and pumps are. I'd like to get a hold of the warranty details to look even closer because I know it's not exactly what some will think when the salesman mentions it (I question whether he used the word "prorated" in his presentation). Plus, the site fails to mention when prorating kicks in. If it's only covered fully for a couple years and then the prorating starts the customer may not be too happy in year 4 if they have a pump go bad.
As far as that 20 yr shell warranty, is that on the shell surface or a warranty against the shell leaking? With all the shell surface issues they've had in the past I'm guessing that is on the shell not leaking and I seriously doubt the shell surface is warranted for even half of that (or it's prorated). Fiberglass shells rarely leak; you really care more about the warranty on the shell surface.
and then I read
"Extended Warranties Bring Total Peace of Mind
Thermo-Spas offers a three year "bumper to bumper" warranty that covers virtually all parts and labor. This means you never open your checkbook and we never leave you stranded. Over 95% of all Thermo-Spas hot tubs come with an extended spa warranty. Our unbeatable spa warranties are a happily-ever-after ending to your hot tub story."
Why would anyone need an extended warranty if the spa has this great 10yr/20yr warranty?
http://www.thermospas.com/features/warranty.aspx
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Wonder how much they want out of your "checkbook" now to promise you won't have to open it over the next three years.
Any warranty that has the words "Pro-Rated" would be a red flag to me.
I'd insist on the details on the pro rating. When does it start? from day one, or after a couple years of staying level?, How fast does the coverage decrease, etc.....
I have a huge issue with sellers using fictional prices to illustrate savings. Like another spa company that sells $4,000 spas but tells everyone that they're really $10,000 spas. They should tell everyone that they're $20,000 spas, so the consumer can save even more.
Wonder how many TP buyers get suckered into the initial gouge price? It's cheesy marketing tactics like this that make the company look shoddy- regardless of the product quality.
If the TP salesman spends a half day pitching a spa, and the customer takes the first price, the salesmen in the pyramid make out like a bandit. If the customer says no, they make zilch. So the come back later with a lower offer, knowing that making some money is better than making none.
My spa dealer didn't, and doesn't negotiate prices, or at least didn't for me. But they had what was probably the price they needed to stay in business, they didn't pack it up front so they could give a fake discount.
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Off the top of my head, I think Dimension 1 has a lounger like that. (Its been 4 years since I shopped)
Where do you live?
Allentown, PA, which is about 50 miles northwest of Philly.
Actually went out over lunch to a local dealer, who carries Sundance & Hot Springs spas. Salesman gave me some quick info and told me to bring the wife in for a wet test and he could answer all my questions and give me additional details. Will most likely stop at another place on the way home to see what they offer.
Thanks again for all the info!
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There’s making a reasonable profit to maintain business, and then there’s price gouging! There is a distinct difference in business ethics between those two comparisons.
No fan of Thermospa but you sell a product for what the market will bare.
If I had a product that cost me $1 but I could sell it for $100, why would I sell it for less?
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No fan of Thermospa but you sell a product for what the market will bare.
If I had a product that cost me $1 but I could sell it for $100, why would I sell it for less?
The logic is VERY simple.... You can probably sell ONE of those for that $100 price. Most likely that ONE person is simply someone who does not do their homework and rather just "buys it" to either avoid the hassle or for some other similar reason. On the other hand, you could "fairly represent" your products and sell them at a TRULY competitive price (say $50) and you would (1) Sell more and therefore generate more profit and (2) Offer a more competitive price thereby retaining the (potential) client's trust and repeat business. Now, which way do you think is REALLY the best approach?
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Steve and Drew, I hear what you guys are saying. I guess I never thought of Thermospas that way as taking advantage of other people who were unsuspecting of the overpricing. I have been very happy this past year knowing that I got the tub for what I negotiated them to. Thanks for opening my eyes to watch out for companies like this in the future. Anyway, I still love my Park Avenue tub.
Good response. I think the KEY here is the "what I negotiated them too" phrase. As with any product, there is a price point that makes sense. Please continue to help this potential TP buyer by giving him ALL the details of your efforts (negotiations, initial and final price points, etc) in a private message if you like so that he has any ammunition he may need to comfortably consider their products.
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Thanks for the quick replies! Guess if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Really liked their Park Avenue spa with a double wide lounge. Any other spas have such a feature? Any recommendations on a 5-person spa with lounge?
Hope to go looking this weekend for something locally. Thanks again!
If the reason you like the double lounger is because you would like to sit side-by-side with your sweettie, just remember that due to the natural difference in men and women, most women have a higher percentage of body fat than do us guys (IMHO this is a good thing as I can appreciate curves). However, this higher % of bodyfat also causes MOST women to "float" in lounger-style units. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that your particular women would enjoy a lounger. This is one of the reasons most of us on here say that you should "wet test" a spa in order to determine the suitability of that particular spa for your needs. Some lounger's work OK for some women and others do not. Some of this has to do with the incline of the lounger, other factors are the number and placement of jets and depth of the water. These are things you just cannot evaluate unless you can see one in person. However, due to the "door-to-door" salesman approach of Thermal Spa, you rarely get such an opportunity. If you do decide that the Park Avenue is what you really do want, you should private message the other TS owners to understand what they actually paid and then tell the TS saleperson that you know that X person in Minny paid $6,900 for it and another in Cincy paid $7,200 and yet another in Phoenix paid $6,800 for it so you KNOW that is a viable price for the spa they are askign $9,500 for. Tell them that you want the "same deal" those guys got or you will simply buy a comparable model from SunDance/HotSprings, etc....
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I never said it was ethical what they do as far as pricing, nor did I say that any company that does this a little or in Thermospas case alot was unethical. I just stated that in any purchase like this you have to get the seller "You" down to your bottom dollar. I even pointed out in my original response that I didn't like the pricing structure of Thermospas. But, because I was smart enough to negotiate them down to their bottom dollar, I got the tub I wanted, and I love it.
I was the one that said that a 75% increase to allow for negotiation and attempt to show perceived "value" to their prospect was unethical. I guess I feel that if someone purchases from them, they are given credibility by that consumer and telling them that it's a resonable way to conduct business. You are supporting this and perpetuating this by buying a Thermospa. At the end of the day, we're all happy and I'm sure you love your spa but the only difference between you and I is that I couldn't support this type of weak salesmanship and price gouging by a company that is willing and eager to rip off the unsuspecting consumer.
Cheers!
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"Extended Warranties Bring Total Peace of Mind
Thermo-Spas offers a three year "bumper to bumper" warranty that covers virtually all parts and labor. This means you never open your checkbook and we never leave you stranded. Over 95% of all Thermo-Spas hot tubs come with an extended spa warranty. Our unbeatable spa warranties are a happily-ever-after ending to your hot tub story."
Why would anyone need an extended warranty if the spa has this great 10yr/20yr warranty?
http://www.thermospas.com/features/warranty.aspx
I hate those things. They call it a "warranty", but it's not. It's an insurance plan. Can you imagine going into a car dealer, and after you buy the car they say "now make sure you buy a good insurance plan for this, because you're going to need it." They're either ripping you off or telling you not to trust their product. You lose both ways.
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I am a buyer for a wholesaler/distributor and I have to chime in here. If you guys new what retail outlets pay for goods you buy everyday you would be disgusted and calling just about every business thieves and liars. I am talking retailers that upcharge 200-300%! Dont you ver wonder how stores have 50% off sales? Do you really think they are losing money? Is it right for someone to pay $40 for an item and 2 weeks later it is marked down to $20?
Not that I am defending the practice of this company and their sleazy sales tactics but it goes on everday, everwhere.
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I agree Mez that some industries (jewlery for example) have very high profit margins but we as consumers have the ability to shop around and educate ourselves to determine the best value we can. In a competitve industry like spas where only a handful practice these tactics, the best we can do as consumers is not support them. That's our point here.
I also suggest that many of these 50% off sales start with inflated "regular prices" or MSRP'S that the item has never been sold at in an attempt to show value. We are so use to "sales" that we as consumers don't find it a decent sale until it's 50% off or more so retailers now have to become creative to find these discounts. It's called perceived value...
Steve
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I agree Mez that some industries (jewlery for example) have very high profit margins but we as consumers have the ability to shop around and educate ourselves to determine the best value we can. In a competitve industry like spas where only a handful practice these tactics, the best we can do as consumers is not support them. That's our point here.
I also suggest that many of these 50% off sales start with inflated "regular prices" or MSRP'S that the item has never been sold at in an attempt to show value. We are so use to "sales" that we as consumers don't find it a decent sale until it's 50% off or more so retailers now have to become creative to find these discounts. It's called perceived value...
Steve
Steve, I agree with the points you make. Percieved value is the key to nay business. I personally am a huge fan of EDLP, every day low pricing but the 100+ companies I buy from dont like it because of the perception. So everyday I am blasted with "sales", buy-downs, bill backs, tracking reports and so on to support this so called perceived value. It is a helluva lot of work for nothing in my opinion.
I agree an educated buyer is a dangerous one. Walk into a car dealer armed with true cost vs. what they claim is their "invoice cost". Tell tehm to take off the regional ad fees they are paid, the backside money they are paid based on total volume sold vs. quotas, etc. Watch the sales manager change a tune as you say you will just go to the next dealer and get the deal you want. That goes for just about anything.
I personally dont like the high pressure, sale today, buy it today, price goes up tomorrow tactics a lot of these dealers use, but some people (the uneducated) must buy into it more often than not or they would cease to use these gimmicks,
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I hate those things. They call it a "warranty", but it's not. It's an insurance plan. Can you imagine going into a car dealer, and after you buy the car they say "now make sure you buy a good insurance plan for this, because you're going to need it." They're either ripping you off or telling you not to trust their product. You lose both ways.
LOL...dont most(all) dealers try to sell the consumer and extended warranty when they purchase an automobile? Yes, they are ripping you off, same with rustproofing, undercoating, paint sealant, fabric care and the rest of the b.s. "fluff they push...but that is where the sales skills come into play and a rep makes a decent chunk off of a sale. My favorite thing to do when buying a car and they try to push the paint sealant is to ask the rep...why do I need it? They come back with "to protect the paint from UV rays...I reply, so what you are telling me is the paint job on this car is no good? Hahaha...they shut up real fast :)
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Those add-ons are where the profits come in. Car dealers make a minimal profit on the car, but a whole lot more comes from the sale of extended warranties, paint and fabric protection, selling insurance and they even get a few bucks if they place the loan.
Same holds true for electronics. They try and scare you into buying the extended warranty. Even on cheap stuff like a $25 phone, they try sell you a warranty.
It's amost all profit on those.