Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: East_TX_Spa on April 25, 2006, 01:28:12 pm
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Mondays are my day off and my little girl happened to not have school yesterday, so we went to Tyler to see the Little Tyke Spa Show.
Before we left, I took a couple of pics of our backyard:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01179.jpg)
Here's one of our pond. Grouchy Ol' DMcJ decided he'd swim over to say hello:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01186.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01192.jpg)
When we arrived at the Tyler Mall, there was a big circus tent with lots of Little Tyke Spas all displayed in different states of disarray. Since my little girl doesn't understand spa jargon, I tried to explain the things we saw in a way that she'd understand.
This spa didn't have any underwear. Well, it was more like panties than real underwear:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01171.jpg)
This spa had little pimples on all the corners of the shell. As a matter of fact, most of them did. I told my little girl that there was evidently an outbreak of Spa Pox at the toy factory and the Toy Maker had found no cure :(:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01169.jpg)
This poor little button had been pushed to death and you could see it's wee electronic skeleton inside:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01170.jpg)
None of the spas had straight lines. All of the cabinets were sloped inwards like a giant had sucked all the air out from underneath. I explained to Savanna that this was the air tight seal that makes a thermal pain spa so efficient, but (bless her heart) she said "Then why are there big gaps all around the cabinet?"
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01177.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01176.jpg)
I told her to start acting like an adult spa shopper and quit asking logical questions!!!
I told her that this spa was probably from a broken home and no one loved it:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01175.jpg)
Savanna said "Daddy, it looks just like the storage shed at your store that the wind blew down." She was right, it did:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01197.jpg)
When the very nice man told us we could have any one of these fantabulous spas for $18,000 or less, we just couldn't believe it to be true. Savanna even thought this one would be a wonderful winter home for our grouchy pet alligator DMcJ:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/3ba18a4b.jpg)
When I closed my eyes, I could almost picture him swimming happily in his own little heated swamp:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/6f29afab.jpg)
OR (I told Savanna) we could go home and shoot that alligator in the head, make some alligator stew, and take the money we saved and go to Disney World!!! She thought that sounded good.
Terminator
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Wow. I sure don't know what brand those tubs are from, but they have obviously become the MASTER of the spa show method of selling.
What other brands of tubs where there at the show?
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Was this some "factory returns" roadside blowout? I thought Master Spa delt via dealers?
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Oh it was Master spas? ::)
Seriously: they do have a road show. It goes around the country, and they advertise as if it was going to be a home show or at the very least a spa show with many makers represented. When you arrive, you get to see Master, and some of the derivative tubs that Master makes, along with the various gazebos and other items, which Master offers.
They get help from some of the vendors - though I haven't heard this happening at ALL of their shows: chem companies and others will send reps to display some product and answer questions.
Bottom line: it's not what you would expect.
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Yea, but those tubs were used and abused. Factory refurbished?
Is it true Master Spas has a new line out? The Baiter?
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I thought Master Spa delt via dealers?
Only if the dealer caves in to their threats and puts up with their crap.
Their sales pitch to me was " We are going to be on your street, either in your building or across the street. You don't want us across the street"
With a sales rep like that, who need quality products?
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They get help from some of the vendors - though I haven't heard this happening at ALL of their shows: chem companies and others will send reps to display some product and answer questions.
I don't see any evidence of a chemical company being anywhere near that tub ;D
Term,
Lord only knows how many potential customers they have snatched from your spell with that display of [glb]hypnotically[/glb] sparkling water!
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Oh it was Master spas? ::)
Seriously: they do have a road show. It goes around the country, and they advertise as if it was going to be a home show or at the very least a spa show with many makers represented. When you arrive, you get to see Master, and some of the derivative tubs that Master makes, .
........................................Bottom line: it's not what you would expect.
I can pretty much verify this. The exception, in my area is was actually a pretty good home show. We were in the market for some bathroom remodling which we just had finished by a company we hired at the show. I'll post a couple of pics from our new Microban shower :)
But as for the hot tub part of it, you hit it right on the head, in my opinion, their radio ads were outright lies.
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Term,
Lord only knows how many potential customers they have snatched from your spell with that display of [glb]hypnotically[/glb] sparkling water!
The very sad part of this tale was that an elderly couple was sitting down paying $6500 for one of these toy spas. Somewhere, Mr. T cried.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/fef35838.jpg)
Terminator
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I went to their spa show within the past year to see what they were about and the 2 things that stood out to me was the poor cabinetry (extra important in a thermopane IMO) and the shell anomolies. Now the sales guy said the shells were blems but more than one was like that and why would you show spas like that at such a highly touted event. I was less than impressed from a visual quality standpoint. For the $$ they put out to run that dog and pony show I'd expect the product to be looking it's best.
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Chas and drewstar, it was a dealer out of Dallas that said they travel around the state selling spas. He also said that they had authorized local service people who would take care of the spa here and in Longview.
He also stated the spas have "tons of jets and major horsepower, 4 pumps at 17.5 hp". All they had were Little Tyke Spas and about 4 outdoor kitchens (which I liked) and a rickety redwood gazebo.
The nice young man indicated to me that Mr. T had cried a lot over the weekend.
Terminator
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But the spas in you pictures looked used.
Where these billed as new, or refurnished?
I heard of getting a shady deal and saying "it fell off the truck" But these look like they really did fall off the truck.
A dirty, grimey, arjuny truck.
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New Spas
Some of the better picture opportunities didn't turn out. There were a couple of spas turned up on their sides with jets that had fallen down into a pile in one of the corners. The blistering/bubbling in the shells was horrendous but I could not get a good picture.
The blow molded plastic cabinet was soooooooo tempting to throw a kick into, but I knew it would cave the side of the spa in. My daughter's Little Tyke Toys are made of the same type of blow molded plastic.
I wanted to jump up and down in one of the empty spas like I do at my store, but I could just picture the mess I would have made in the Little Tyke Spa.
I actually have to admit that even the Sunbelt Spas that I've seen looked better crafted than these. They were a complete and utter joke, and I surely did not expect that.
Terminator
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They were a complete and utter joke, and I surely did not expect that.
Terminator
Yes, but at least they are ETL listed. More than can be said for some....
;)
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Now she's on all the pages!
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC00025.jpg)
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Yeah, but for them ETL is Every Tub Leaks.
Yes, but at least they are ETL listed. More than can be said for some....
;)
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I proud if you Term. That's the last place I would be on my day off if I was in the spa busniness. ;D
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I proud if you Term. That's the last place I would be on my day off if I was in the spa busniness. ;D
I realize I have a high pressure, high stress job....... ;D ;D ;D.....and that it's good to get away from all the headaches and strain every now and then.... ;D ;D ;D.....but I don't mind putting in a little overtime on occasion.
Actually, I get 4 weeks paid vacation/year and I don't think I've ever used more than 2 weeks in any given year. My wife thinks I'm a workaholic... ;D ;D ;D!!!
This weekend is the food and wine festival at Los Pinos Ranch Vineyards. Last year, Hurricane Rita blew through and cancelled it (and killed Teency). This Saturday, we'll have an Envoy up and running at the show. Would it be considered tacky to have a hydrotherapy technician at an event of such refinement and opulence?
Terminator
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Would it be considered tacky to have a hydrotherapy technician at an event of such refinement and opulence?
Tammy?
;D
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One spa retailer that I know (that does not sell that brand of spas) heard his company's name on the radio ad for the traveling tent show when it came to his town.
It seems he was sponsering the show and didn't even know it.
Someone went to the traveling tent show and asked who would service the tub locally. They were told that my dealer friend was their local dealer.
A few weeks later at a home and garden show customers told him that "we bought a spa from you 2 weeks ago at your tent sale".
A month later he got calls from people who had purchased spas from the traveling tent show and not received them yet demanding that he deliver them.
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A month later he got calls from people who had purchased spas from the traveling tent show and not received them yet demanding that he deliver them.
Ooh, that'd be a general bummer. Maybe even a Major.
:-[
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DMcJ and I have a sneaking suspicion that we may be seeing the same thing down the road with these folks.
One of our covert associates verified that Mr. T has cried 8 times since last Friday. There'll probably be a lot more crying if the Little Tyke Spa folks don't come through on their promises....
Terminator
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Obviously, MS has once again displeased the dealers at this site. Certainly Term has searched, found and documented the worst of the show which may certainly be representative of the entire show or may not. I would suggest that he visit the local MS dealer and present his findings to him while taking a look at the spas in his showroom. If he finds the same equipment in the same condition, then certainly MS has some quality assurance issues. If he finds what I find when I visit my MS dealer or if he finds what I find when I look at my own tub, if he is a reasonable man, maybe his report will change. Oh, and I suggest to Term that he use his "Little Tykes Spas" label while there....I mean, why not be consistent? Just a suggestion.....no harm, no foul, no bulls**t.....
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Sorry Windy, but if you notice Term moving a little slowly it's cuz I'm sittin on his coat tails. The part I found most humorous was the part about kicking the spa. They have the flimsiest cheesiest cabinets I have ever seen on any hot tub. Their aproach is all sizzle, no steak.
Obviously, MS has once again displeased the dealers at this site. Certainly Term has searched, found and documented the worst of the show which may certainly be representative of the entire show or may not. I would suggest that he visit the local MS dealer and present his findings to him while taking a look at the spas in his showroom. If he finds the same equipment in the same condition, then certainly MS has some quality assurance issues. If he finds what I find when I visit my MS dealer or if he finds what I find when I look at my own tub, if he is a reasonable man, maybe his report will change. Oh, and I suggest to Term that he use his "Little Tykes Spas" label while there....I mean, why not be consistent? Just a suggestion.....no harm, no foul, no bulls**t.....
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Certainly Term has searched, found and documented the worst of the show which may certainly be representative of the entire show or may not.
I just stopped by because I was taking my little girl to the zoo in Tyler. I didn't go over every spa with a fine tooth comb. I would walk up to one, look at it, and sometimes Savanna would say "Look at this button Daddy. What's that?" or she would say "Look at those things in the bottom. What are they?"
Of the 15 or so spas they had, I only looked at about 10 of them. All 10 had 4 walls that sloped inwards and blemishes were visible on all pearlescent shells.
I would suggest that he visit the local MS dealer and present his findings to him while taking a look at the spas in his showroom.
That's part of the problem, there isn't one within a 2 hour drive.
Oh, and I suggest to Term that he use his "Little Tykes Spas" label while there....I mean, why not be consistent? Just a suggestion.....no harm, no foul, no bulls**t.....
I wouldn't want to offend the salesperson. He was very nice and polite and he's just trying to make a living. I never lied to him, just told him I was there looking and he should go help the other folks as I was not in the market. I'm just documenting what I saw for educational purposes illustrating the differences in the various spa companies' products. For example:
Their product:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/9cd7541e.jpg)
Our product:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01199.jpg)
The Little Tyke label occurred to me when Savanna made the comment about the panels looking like the ones on my Rubbermaid storage building. It is the same type of flimsy blow molded plastic that warps, just like my daughter's Little Tyke turtle sand box and picnic table.
I'll post some more comparison pics later when I have some time. :)
Terminator
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do any other spas manufactuers use the blown vinyl sides?
I have to agree with Term. "little tykes" is a accurate description.
These are not the most flattering pics. I would think someone from Master spas would counter it with some sort of explanation.
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These are not the most flattering pics. I would think someone from Master spas would counter it with some sort of explanation.
Where are all the people that normally rave about MasterSpas quality??? Then again there isn't normally photographic evidence to the contrary.
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Comparison Photos (please excuse the quality as I'm extremely busy today):
Their product:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01175.jpg)
Our product:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01201.jpg)
Their product:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01177.jpg)
Our product:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01204.jpg)
I know, I know...that's a top of the line HotSpring Grandee, not a fair comparison, so I kicked the squat out of a HotSpot entry level spa:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01218.jpg)
It hurt my foot! So I leaned my 242 lbs (as of this morning) against the cabinet to get it to implode:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01219.jpg)
Nada!
Their water:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/3ba18a4b.jpg)
Our water:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01205.jpg)
I know, I know...the HotSpring Spas are demo models. EXACTLY! There have been at least 6 test soaks in this spa in the last 3 weeks (4 of them by me and my family). I doubt the other spa has had ANY test soaks and the water had only been in there about 5 days, max.
But, that's no fair. HotSpring has 100% No-Bypass Filtration. That's why the water is so clean. So, here's a Tiger River Caspian with the same water that's been in there since we had our VIP Night in December:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01207.jpg)
December 3, 2005:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC00025.jpg)
Their product:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01169.jpg)
Our product:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01206.jpg)
Our entry level product:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01210.jpg)
I looked all over the whole store and could not find a blemish, bubble, blister, or "discount" anywhere.
Merry Christmas!
Terminator
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Looks like you have had trouble with those pesky pillow-eating termites. We had a swarm of them come through town - the city guy said they came from Colorado or someplace.
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Lovely comparison Term, but that bad water is a chemistry issue, not a filtration issue, as you well know. Give me a tub of water that looked like that and I would have it looking like your tub of water in 1 day. I kept the other picture in cuz she's purdy!
Their water:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/3ba18a4b.jpg)
Our water:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01205.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC00025.jpg)
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Lovely comparison Term, but that bad water is a chemistry issue, not a filtration issue, as you well know.
I agree. I was playing devil's advocate with myself.
That didn't come out right, but you understand what I mean.
Terminator
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Hey Term,
Pls tell me those spas were being offered as "factory seconds"?? As we all know, every manufacturer has these and some dealers bring them in for greater discounts. I may even go out on a limb to suggest HS might even produce the odd one? ;)
I do agree however that pictures don't lie and those spas are BRUTAL in their construction. I do agree that even with the basic, industry standard filtration systems offered by a lot of manufacturers though that clean, clear water can be achieved. No doubt that with a HS spa, improper watercare could easily produce the swamp we see in that picure. Nice sell though! ;D
Hope everyone is having a great year so far!
Steve
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Damn, that girl is hot. Beautiful face and smile. I should think about moving south.
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What were we talking about again?
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Damn, that girl is hot. Beautiful face and smile. I should think about moving south.
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What were we talking about again?
I think Term said they have to bus the good looking spa girls in from out of state. ;)
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Damn, that girl is hot. Beautiful face and smile. I should think about moving south.
Go west young man. She lit out for California back in January. :'(
Terminator
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Just wanted to keep her on the page ;)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC00025.jpg)
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Where are all the people that normally rave about MasterSpas quality??? Then again there isn't normally photographic evidence to the contrary.
Don't know that there are many people that rave about MasterSpas quality on this site. As a matter of fact, I'm only 1 of but a handful that own an MS spa who still frequent this site. As you can see, it is rather tough to be in such a minority when those who ride other bandwagons are so opinionated and happily so. Search my past posts, especially ones with Stuart to see that I certainly acknowledge the "flimsy" panels used. Also notice that I knew this from jumpstreet and, to this day, it does not bother me in the least....certainly not like it bothers Term, Wisoki and others (it REALLY bothers them it seems....they sure like to harp on it). I have absolutely no problem with the quality of my tub....it is NOWHERE like the pics Term is representing as the entire MS line. I am very sorry that there is not an MS dealer close to him so that he could see another view....or maybe he's real happy that an MS dealer is not that close so that potential customers won't wet test and find what I believe is superior therapy to his HS line (and, yes, I did wet test the HS line when I was looking)...but this is my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Or maybe MS's quality has sunk to an unacceptable level since I bought my tub 2 years ago (but I doubt it having looked at the tubs in my MS dealers showroom).....Term will not know if he doesn't bother to look for something other than the worst. Yet I do understand that this is the closest MS has come to his neck of the woods so it is understandable if this is all he sees. Actually, it's more just the attitude that is presented by Term, Wisoki and others...the safety in numbers phenomenon. For me, I have no problem at all recommending MS and will do so until I see a reason not to.
Does MS bring some of this on themselves...probably. But then, maybe people see what they want to see.
As for photographic evidence, look here:
MasterSpas LSX (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brdhd/album?.dir=e8c7&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos)
Interesting how my water looks without the sacred "100% no-bypass filtration".....or maybe I'm just looking for the best in things, not the worst.....
BTW, I'll pass on turning my spa on it's side to show the bottom.... 8)
No harm, no foul, no bulls**t.
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Nice pics Dog.
The MS traveling circus has been to my area many times and the program seems to be that they bring as many spas as they can to give a big impression. Some of the models are actually "dummies" with no guts so they are easier to move ( those get "sold" signs right away) Anyway, most have the same issues as Term's pics but that was part of why they were such a "great deal".
As I have said before. I used to sell MasterSpa and we had alot of happy customers. It is the company's sales practices/quality that went into the toilet.
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Windsurfdog, I'm not trying to put down your spa. Yours does look very nice in the pictures and I'm glad you're happy with it. I've never had a problem with that brand and even stuck up for them and their right to market the spas the way they see fit.
But, I also have the right to call it the way I see it and I was flabbergasted with what I saw. Maybe those spas have been rode hard and put away dry over and over again, I don't know. They were presented as new spas and at no time did I see any indication they were "seconds".
I've done many a show over the years and sold many a spa (HotSpring) and I've only run across 1 that made it to my store that had a blemished shell. Maybe they send us the pick of the litter, maybe all my clean living is paying off, I'm not sure. There is no way we (East Texas Spa) would display items in that shape to the general public, even if we had some. We had a tent cable fall across a brand new pearl Envoy at the Balloon Race 2 years ago and scratched the shell. My boss took that one home with him that day and we put another one out to show the shoppers.
That's all I'll say about Monday. If anything new occurs in the immediate or distant future, I will report in. :)
Terminator
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I'm a happy, satisfied MS (LSX) owner since mid '04. Picked my unit up at the factory as a "blem" with substantial reduction in price. Althought I saw only the factory "front end" and loading area, I was impressed with the operation.
That said .. what the Term presents in words and pictures is awful. A business would have to have empty heads to put such crap on the street for sale. I wonder if somehow, someone picked up a bunch of blems and is now trying to market theml.
MS would have been better to bulldoze that junk!
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That said .. what the Term presents in words and pictures is awful. A business would have to have empty heads to put such crap on the street for sale. I wonder if somehow, someone picked up a bunch of blems and is now trying to market theml.
MS would have been better to bulldoze that junk!
I went to a Master show as well earlier this year and had similar thoughts. The poor cabinetry really stood out along with 3 or 4 very obvious shell blems. I was not impressed at all with the cabintry and I'd expect them to look like that from traveling around as the material and design were flimsy IMO. The blems really caught me off guard as you wouldn't think they'd travel the country showing that off. Unfotrunately, they didn't have any gators in the spas when I saw them.
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My $.02 on this is pretty simple....
If you've got a product that you're trying to sell, and you're doing shows to sell these and get the word out to the largest possible group of potential customers....you'll pull out your best product, not the crap of the crop. What Terms pics showed was something that should've been listed as blemished, factory seconds, etc. If they're sold as new, and THAT is what the company is sending to represent itself, then it's a fair assumption that what you see is as good as it gets. Now....if that's true or not...different story, maybe.
Anyhow, I feel it's laughable that a company that's seriously striving to keep selling spas has sent these piles out to be viewed by the public...
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Fair enough, all. I certainly agree that I would pass on any of the equipment in Term's pix....like I said, maybe MS brings some of this onto themselves.
Term, your last post was fair and appreciated. Just to let you know, I monitored this thread from the beginning and felt my input would not be beneficial. Apparently, that changed. 8) I would be the last to ask anyone not to call it like they see it. Yet, I was the first, in this thread anyway, to take exception with the presentation/representation.
No harm, no foul, no bulls**t.
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*UPDATE*
We put up a tent out near the other show and we've got a little head to head action going. The other folks added a bunch more spas and have them circled around like cowboy wagons. I'm stuck at the store but I'm leaving for the wine festival in about 30 minutes.
Our count at our tent sale so far is 4 today (our first day). I've had a pretty rocking day at my store (7, a new record for me), and my underling Amy is negotiating a deal at the winery with the owner of the local country club for 2 Grandees and a Jetsetter. Freakin' unbelievable day and my head hurts because I'm not used to actually working when I'm at work. So I'm headed to drink some wine and eat some hot links.
Ya'll take care and gotta go!
Temi9na=tr
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What part of Califorinia? She was your best model. :o
Just wanted to keep her on the page  ;)
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Spa sales man math :o
*UPDATE*
We put up a tent out near the other show and we've got a little head to head action going. The other folks added a bunch more spas and have them circled around like cowboy wagons. I'm stuck at the store but I'm leaving for the wine festival in about 30 minutes.
Our count at our tent sale so far is 4 today (our first day). I've had a pretty rocking day at my store (7, a new record for me), and my underling Amy is negotiating a deal at the winery with the owner of the local country club for 2 Grandees and a Jetsetter. Freakin' unbelievable day and my head hurts because I'm not used to actually working when I'm at work. So I'm headed to drink some wine and eat some hot links.
Ya'll take care and gotta go!
Temi9na=tr
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Term,
these guys seem to come by every spring. Any sign of them this year?
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01176.jpg)
Master Spa Cabinets
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No sir, no sign of those pudpullers recently.
I am also shocked to report that they have yet to open their new store in Longview. Their customers were told there would be a store opening last summer and then again in January, but I've travelled all over town, made inquiries, done everything except hire Dick Tracy to find them.....but they're nowhere to be found. :'(
I will remain diligent and graciously post pictures from their grand opening when it occurs!
Terminator
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My guess is that after the factory became one of the only factories in the industry to lose the ability to offer their dealers Textron flooring because they can't find many spas, most new dealers could not afford to open without the flooring.
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Did Master really lose their ability to use Textron or was that some kind of joke?
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Did Master really lose their ability to use Textron or was that some kind of joke?
I have heard that rumor from sources other than Stuart.
They have done the dog and pony show twice in northern CA this year, once in San Francisco and once in Sacramento.
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Term,
Haven't heard from Eddie lately, did he tell you how Master did setting up stakes in Austin?
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They just had a show in Providence, RI. Looks like they will be in Wisconsin this weekend. You can track their moves by checking spaexpo.com. Poor, poor Mr. "T" :'(
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Term,
Haven't heard from Eddie lately, did he tell you how Master did setting up stakes in Austin?
No sir. I sent him a ton of information to hopefully help out, never heard a word back.
Term
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Well, he's a one-man store, so hopefully he's just been inundates with business. Appreciate your helping him.