Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Chad on February 04, 2007, 12:14:09 pm
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How many people have used or will be using their tax refunds to help pay or completely pay for their tub?
I'll start.
I will be doing my taxes today as a matter of fact. (Yes although I'm a youngster, I do my own taxes and have been since I was 20. 8-))
I will be using all of the refund to pay off the tub. This is the first time since owning my house(3.5 years) that I haven't put it towards the principal payment of my mortgage.
Oh well, I feel like I deserve it. :)
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I did last year. Paid for it in full at purchase, but it hurt less because of my tax return.
Is it really that big of a deal, young or no, to do your own taxes? I grew up with my whole family always doing their own, and I always do my own........does H&R block actually earn it's keep?
Now, when I say I do my own, that means with Turbo tax, these days! A few years ago I was just finishing up my taxes, and called my dad to chat. I mentioned that my taxes were almost done- it was my first year of home ownership, so I was worried about doing it all right. He asked me, "What do you use?" I was puzzled by the question, and said, "uh, pencil and paper? What do you mean, 'use'?" Of course he meant TurboTax or one of it's kind. I couldn't believe that my money conscious, doityourself father would spend money on a program he could only use once, and he could not believe that I'd waste the time to do it all by hand! As they say, father knows best, as I discovered the following year. :)
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I have done our taxes the past 3 years. My husband is an accountant and we got audited 4 years ago and lost, so I took over, lol. :)
Our tub was paid for upfront in November 05... can't charge it when its used. Ours this year will go to pay for getting J's bike fixed and getting his car running so I don't have to chauffer him to work every day.
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I have been self employed for most of my life. I do not give the government interest-free loans of MY money for any reason, at any time.
So - no refund.
But the good news - I don't think I'll be paying any income tax this year. Bought a building, made some expansions to a couple of our businesses - pretty much balanced it all out nicely I think.
8-)
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I have been self employed for most of my life. I do not give the government interest-free loans of MY money for any reason, at any time.
So - no refund.
You soooooooo have the right idea. Just being an employed Joe Schmoe, I get a paycheck with taxes removes already like most people, and then I think "yippeee! Money back!" at tax time. If I had my own business I hope I would be organized and disciplined enough to do as you do. As it is, I just pretend that my tax return is a gift, rather than a returned loan, as it truely is!!!! :P
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Is it really that big of a deal, young or no, to do your own taxes? I grew up with my whole family always doing their own, and I always do my own........does H&R block actually earn it's keep?
I'd be brave enough to say that less than 5% of ALL the people I know file their own taxes. So to answer your question, I would say yes it's a big deal.
And yes, I only use a pencil and my brain, no Turbo Tax. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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You soooooooo have the right idea. Just being an employed Joe Schmoe, I get a paycheck with taxes removes already like most people, and then I think "yippeee! Money back!" at tax time.
Although I get back quite a bit every year, I've never said yipeeeee or even smiled for that matter. This year state and fed combined are getting to KEEP close to $10,000 of my money. I paid in $13,700 combined.
People like me get screwed the most. I'm single, no dependants, and own my house(which would usually be a good thing, but since I have no dependents I can't claim Head of Household). If I'm not the head of the household then who the h e l l is?" :-/
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I have a friend who is an accountant do my taxes although this year I bought a tax program to see if it does the same. I used to be able to do it but as I got older and life became more complicated, I find it difficult to do them ... too many variables.
I consider myself fairly intelligent but on some of the things that I have to report out on I feel like an idiot as I read the question! I also am wondering if a tax program will catch stupid mistakes such as you can't take a tax credit for child care if a child is over a certain age (I think the age is 13). My friend told me about this about 3 years ago with my oldest. Last year my oldest had to file his own tax return ... he was only 15.
As far as paying for the tub, no. But we usually do use it for vacations. We'll see this year!
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I have been self employed for most of my life. I do not give the government interest-free loans of MY money for any reason, at any time.
So - no refund.
But the good news - I don't think I'll be paying any income tax this year. Bought a building, made some expansions to a couple of our businesses - pretty much balanced it all out nicely I think.
8-)
Likewise Chas! I also use a retired former employee of the IRS,who does CPA work as retired. He's able to help me,as he knows the business,and what flags NOT to raise etc. My wife keeps the books throughout the year,and for his services,including our personal taxes,we pay about 500 a year.
Was nice being in Why Nots shoes and others years ago,was getting money back from uncle Sam every year. But as Chas said,why let uncle Sam save your money,esp as it's interest free for uncle Sam?
Lastly,use the banks money!
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I have a CPA do ours. I do find it ironic that a lot of you are doing your own on one hand. But highly suggest that everyone should buy a spa from a dealer because of their expertise. I prefer to pay a professional for peace of mind and support when the Audit comes. As convoluted as the tax laws are and constantly changing, it seems like a good deal to me. You might be suprised at what legal deductions are out there and some being used that are illegal. All in all I feel it is money well spent. I to try not to get a refund as I don't need to be making loans to the goverment. I claim 7 deductions in my paycheck and only three at the end of the year and usually still get money back. :(
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Although I get back quite a bit every year, I've never said yipeeeee or even smiled for that matter. This year state and fed combined are getting to KEEP close to $10,000 of my money. I paid in $13,700 combined.
People like me get screwed the most. I'm single, no dependants, and own my house(which would usually be a good thing, but since I have no dependents I can't claim Head of Household). If I'm not the head of the household then who the h e l is?" :-/
I'm in the same boat as you are - single, no dependents and own my home outright. I have no interest payments of any kind. Really sucks!? Ha! What most people would give to be in our situation!!!? But as far as taxes go, yes, it does suck and we do get screwed. Best thing to do in terms of hot tub/taxes is to get an Rx from your doctor that you need it for theraputic reasons. That way I would think you could write off the whole thing or at least part of it if your total medical expenses reach a certain percentage of AGI. I don't know what the IRS ruling is about deductions for hot tubs but if a doctor prescribes it I can't see how they could deny the deduction.
By doing that and paying two years of your propery taxes in the same year, doubling your yearly contributions in the same year, watching closely your capital gain distributions, stock sales, deducting all other medical related costs (except drugs which I do not believe can be deducted), etc., just might qualify you to take the itemized deduction at least in that year, rather than the lousy standard deduction they give people like you and me who can't normally itemize. For people in the market for a hot tub this will ease the pain of the purchase price. If you have no history of back trouble or arthritis or some such thing, you might not be able to do this of course but by talking to the doctor there might be a way. Anyway, doesn't everyone over the age of 50 have some sort of back trouble from time to time?
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I claim 7 deductions in my paycheck and only three at the end of the year and usually still get money back. :(
J claims married 8. Our family consists of 4. We get a decent refund back each year thanks to how much we pay in interest on the house. He wanted to raise it and claim more so we aren't giving the govt a tax free loan, but I'm too scared to claim more. Plus a few hundred extra each month would just be lost in the general fund where as when I get $2 or $3k I feel like I can do something substanital with it.
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Shortspark and WHY NOT, you guys have me confused. Yes, if your house is paid for in full then you have no tax shelter in your mortgage interest. But you dont have to have a family or dependents to itemize.....
To me, turbotax is a worthwhile expense. Generally it cost about $20 and it double checks all your work and looks for ways to save money. It asks you all the relevant questions, asks you to input numbers, then it DOES IT ALL. Much less chance of error, and not expensive. You can pay a little extra and have "coverage" if you get audited, but I never bother.
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I'd be brave enough to say that less than 5% of ALL the people I know file their own taxes. So to answer your question, I would say yes it's a big deal.
And yes, I only use a pencil and my brain, no Turbo Tax. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Well, having always done my own, I guess I just think of that as par for the course, but congrats on doing them. I'm about as cheap, errr, as economical as anyone I know when it comes to minimizing little expenses like eating out, and frivolous items, but I strongly recommend TurboTax. I'll never go back to pencil and paper!!!!!
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I plan on using my rebate to pay for the tub. Hopfully I get enough back. :-?
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I just went to Turbo Tax Online, just to see what it would do/say. This is the first Income Tax I have had to report with a real job in awhile (I have been "retired", by choice, for the past few years). Anyway, what I found most interesting was the IRA deduction.
According to Turbo, if I contribute $500.00 to an IRA before April, I will get $300.00 more on my Federal return, and if I contribute $1000.00, I would get about $30.00 MORE refund than I actually put in....does this seem possible? (not talking a large income here...lol)
Chad, do you contribute to an IRA?
Anyway, it was interesting!!
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Chad, do you contribute to an IRA?
No, but my work does have a 401K set up for me. :)
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Shortspark and WHY NOT, you guys have me confused. Yes, if your house is paid for in full then you have no tax shelter in your mortgage interest. But you dont have to have a family or dependents to itemize.....
I wish..... :D
My house is not paid for. :(
I go the long way and itemize but have to file single with no dependents. I guess the head of household really doesn't matter in my case as my deductions are more than the standard deduction for HOHH. It's just weird that I can't call myself the head of the house. :'(
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There is nowhere in the tax tables where the amount of interest or any other deductions for that matter, come close to the tax reduction you get from taking the dedcution. Deductions only lower your taxable income- which lowers your taxes, but not by the amount of the deduction. For most people it may be somewhere in the neighborhood of 30%. So by NOT having to pay mortgage interest, you are actually dollars ahead. Pay the bank a lot of interest, or pay the IRS a bit more taxes.
If you're paying $10K per year in deductibe interest, you might save a a few thousand in taxes. If you pay no interest you'll save the 10K per year, but maybe pay $3K more in taxes.
And as was said earlier, tax refunds are a horrible savings plan. It's your own money you're getting back. Way better to adjust your witholdings and funnel that money into a payroll dedution savings plan or into your 401K.
Would you allow your utilities to overbill you just so they can give you a big check back at the end of the year, paying you no interest? Didn't thing so, but that's exactly what you're doing if you're getting multi thousand dollar refunds.
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There is nowhere in the tax tables where the amount of interest or any other deductions for that matter, come close to the tax reduction you get from taking the dedcution.
Brewman, 8-)
I'm confused. :-[
Are you saying that it's not possible for your itemized deductions to be greater than the standard deduction? :-/
Thanks :D
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Sorry if I was unclear. What I was trying to say, is that no matter what income tax bracket you're in, the deduction amount will never be equal to the tax.
Say your mortgage interest is $1000 per month, just to keep the math easy. You can take a $12,000 deduction on your taxes for that amount, and it will lower your taxable income by the $12K. But it won't lower your tax bill by that amount, it will lower it by mabye $3000 (depends on each persons situation).
Some people get under the mistaken assumption that going into debt just to save taxes is a good thing.
By paying $12K per year in interest, you're saving the $3K in taxes, but still spending a net of $7000 on that loan (ignoring the principal payment).
By not have a mortgage, you will pay higher taxes becasue you can't deduct an non existing expense, but you'll be dollars ahead by not paying interest to the bank.
It was meant as a statement for those who borrow money strictly because the interest may be deductible.
So people without mortgages who complain about their tax bill really shouldn't.
It's nice that your mortgage interest is deductible, but it's just an offset in taxes, never will a deduction save you an amount in taxes equal to the deduction.
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Middle class white guy with no kids, tax return, what's that?
I think you folks with kids should start paying your fair share!
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Middle class white guy with no kids, tax return, what's that?
I think you folks with kids should start paying your fair share!
Yea! Make everyone with kids pay extra, not deduct them. I've never had any short people thank God. I consider the little shits to be a pain in the butt and a distraction at best. Nonetheless, over the past 40 years there is no telling how much money in school taxes I've paid. And now I have to take the standard deduction and can't even write that off. People with kids ought to pay double taxes so we without don't have to pay anything - seems fair to me.
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There is nowhere in the tax tables where the amount of interest or any other deductions for that matter, come close to the tax reduction you get from taking the dedcution. Deductions only lower your taxable income- which lowers your taxes, but not by the amount of the deduction. For most people it may be somewhere in the neighborhood of 30%. So by NOT having to pay mortgage interest, you are actually dollars ahead. Pay the bank a lot of interest, or pay the IRS a bit more taxes.
If you're paying $10K per year in deductibe interest, you might save a a few thousand in taxes. If you pay no interest you'll save the 10K per year, but maybe pay $3K more in taxes.
And as was said earlier, tax refunds are a horrible savings plan. It's your own money you're getting back. Way better to adjust your witholdings and funnel that money into a payroll dedution savings plan or into your 401K.
Would you allow your utilities to overbill you just so they can give you a big check back at the end of the year, paying you no interest? Didn't thing so, but that's exactly what you're doing if you're getting multi thousand dollar refunds.
Very true, it would be great not to pay a mortgage, but I think for most people the comparison is between paying mortgage vs paying rent, not paying a mortgage vs having your home paid off. I'd love to own my house outright, and pay a bit more tax! I know that there are renter's credits or something, but I dont think that they are as financially helpful as the deduction for mortgage interest, and then there is the whole issue of owning something that increases in value....
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Yea! Make everyone with kids pay extra, not deduct them. I've never had any short people thank God. I consider the little shits to be a pain in the butt and a distraction at best. Nonetheless, over the past 40 years there is no telling how much money in school taxes I've paid. And now I have to take the standard deduction and can't even write that off. People with kids ought to pay double taxes so we without don't have to pay anything - seems fair to me.
I dont' have kids (never did want them), and I'm not a fan taxes...but the taxes for public school is a short sighted argument. Even though you don't have children, you, me and society overall benifits from an educated society. After all these kids in public shools are going to be driving the buses you ride, fixing your food in the hospital, and what not. Don't complain about paying for public education, because it's directly in your best interest to have an educated work force that can read and write. Complain about the quality of eduction you are paying for them to get. ;)
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Yea! Make everyone with kids pay extra, not deduct them. I've never had any short people thank God. I consider the little shits to be a pain in the butt and a distraction at best. Nonetheless, over the past 40 years there is no telling how much money in school taxes I've paid. And now I have to take the standard deduction and can't even write that off. People with kids ought to pay double taxes so we without don't have to pay anything - seems fair to me.
Dont know if I'll have kids either, but I fully agree with Drew. If you'd like to pay nothing to invest in the next generation, perhaps you should get nothing from them. Who is going to care for you when you are old, and make medical advancements to help all of us live happier, longer lives, and be well-read and educated enough to run this country? Teachers today make less then garbagemen. No disrespect to garbagemen, of course, but a teacher's work dictates, to at least some degree, the future of this nation.
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Yea! Make everyone with kids pay extra, not deduct them. I've never had any short people thank God. I consider the little shits to be a pain in the butt and a distraction at best. Nonetheless, over the past 40 years there is no telling how much money in school taxes I've paid. And now I have to take the standard deduction and can't even write that off. People with kids ought to pay double taxes so we without don't have to pay anything - seems fair to me.
what if your parents thought like that?? ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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I dont' have kids (never did want them), and I'm not a fan taxes...but the taxes for public school is a short sighted argument. Even though you don't have children, you, me and society overall benifits from an educated society. After all these kids in public shools are going to be driving the buses you ride, fixing your food in the hospital, and what not. Don't complain about paying for public education, because it's directly in your best interest to have an educated work force that can read and write. Complain about the quality of eduction you are paying for them to get. ;)
+1 :D
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Dont know if I'll have kids either, but I fully agree with Drew. If you'd like to pay nothing to invest in the next generation, perhaps you should get nothing from them. Who is going to care for you when you are old, and make medical advancements to help all of us live happier, longer lives, and be well-read and educated enough to run this country? Teachers today make less then garbagemen. No disrespect to garbagemen, of course, but a teacher's work dictates, to at least some degree, the future of this nation.
Well put except for impying that teachers are under paid. Imo, that's one of the biggest misconceptions of public school teachers. They do well. I'm not saying they're over paid, just sayin' don't feel sorry for them. Have you ever seen what their pensions are like! :o
My dad's 3rd wife started out as a 6th grade teacher in one of the local public school districts in my area. She got all kinds of bonuses for this or that. Not to mention a salary increase practically every year. She got 1/2 the pay of a workday when she didn't use a sick day or a vacation day. So if she had 2 weeks vacation and 10 sick days a year and didn't use any of them, she'd get paid an extra 10 full working days just for goin' to work everyday. But the cake goes to their pension. I'll double check but I beleieve she will draw 75% of her highest paid year for the rest of her life when she retires. Now that's a pension! Are they worth all that?...... I certainly think so. Like you said Who is going to care for you when you are old, and make medical advancements to help all of us live happier, longer lives, and be well-read and educated enough to run this country :)
Btw, she's been teaching for 15 years and makes $75K now, well part of that is because she's now an assistant principal for the Junior High. But I beleive that was only a 10k per year increase.
One last thing. Let's not forget that they also get off work for EVERY holiday, spring break, winter break, oh yeah and SUMMER VACATION. :D
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Sorry if I was unclear. What I was trying to say, is that no matter what income tax bracket you're in, the deduction amount will never be equal to the tax.
Say your mortgage interest is $1000 per month, just to keep the math easy. You can take a $12,000 deduction on your taxes for that amount, and it will lower your taxable income by the $12K. But it won't lower your tax bill by that amount, it will lower it by mabye $3000 (depends on each persons situation).
Some people get under the mistaken assumption that going into debt just to save taxes is a good thing.
By paying $12K per year in interest, you're saving the $3K in taxes, but still spending a net of $7000 on that loan (ignoring the principal payment).
By not have a mortgage, you will pay higher taxes becasue you can't deduct an non existing expense, but you'll be dollars ahead by not paying interest to the bank.
It was meant as a statement for those who borrow money strictly because the interest may be deductible.
So people without mortgages who complain about their tax bill really shouldn't.
It's nice that your mortgage interest is deductible, but it's just an offset in taxes, never will a deduction save you an amount in taxes equal to the deduction.
Thanks B-Man 8-)
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Why Not - Not certain what state your mother-in-law is in but $75K a year for Junior High Teacher is WAY, WAY above the norm. I think you said that hse had a $10K bump due to VP duties but that would still have placed her around $65K/year. My sister-in-law teaches in Charleston SC. She has been doing it for like 5 years. She doesn't make $30K/year (less than 50% of what your mother-in-law appears to get). This is more "normal for NC and SC schools. In fact, I don't think ANY teacher here is able to make more than $45K/year (no matter the tenor). True, they get 2 months off in the summer so $45K is more equivilant to a higher paying "full year" job but in most cases, the teachers around here make around $28K or so for those 10 months of teaching.
We've lost a number of High School teachers for College teaching jobs as they simply could not make over $50K/year teaching in the public school system. Most went to school at night for any additional degrees required to do the college thing.
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Why Not - Not certain what state your mother-in-law is in but $75K a year for Junior High Teacher is WAY, WAY above the norm. I think you said that hse had a $10K bump due to VP duties but that would still have placed her around $65K/year. My sister-in-law teaches in Charleston SC. She has been doing it for like 5 years. She doesn't make $30K/year (less than 50% of what your mother-in-law appears to get). This is more "normal for NC and SC schools. In fact, I don't think ANY teacher here is able to make more than $45K/year (no matter the tenor). True, they get 2 months off in the summer so $45K is more equivilant to a higher paying "full year" job but in most cases, the teachers around here make around $28K or so for those 10 months of teaching.
We've lost a number of High School teachers for College teaching jobs as they simply could not make over $50K/year teaching in the public school system. Most went to school at night for any additional degrees required to do the college thing.
In the bunker,
Here is an article about one of the teachers in her school district that was recently arressted. You will notice that she has 19 years in the district and had a base salary of $64,000.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stcharles/story/A0FA1DBBF232863186257267001A51E6?OpenDocument
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The winning strategy on taxes is to owe the Gvt as much as you can without getting a penalty.
Chas is right.....don't lend them any money.
It may feel "good" in April....but it's a waste of your money. :D
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Well put except for impying that teachers are under paid. Imo, that's one of the biggest misconceptions of public school teachers. They do well. I'm not saying they're over paid, just sayin' don't feel sorry for them. Have you ever seen what their pensions are like!
Teachers do get and in most cases deserve a good pension. Remember they must have a four year degree with the appropriate certification. In NY they must have a masters degree within 5 years of starting a job. Here in NY they start at 27k-37k depending on where it is. In the bad city districts they have to pay more to get people to take the positions. I suggest to everyone that thinks teachers are overpaid try taking a couple of days and volunteer at your local high schools. All schools in our areas have security people on full time staff with some having a full time police presence. Not to mention metal detectors, drug sniffing dogs and see thru backpacks. Most if not all the teachers I know are not in it for the money. With there education they could make more money in the private industry. Also on the pension here they get a percentage of the average of there last three years salary. As said above they are molding the future generation that will be, hopefully taking care of us in the future.
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Yea! Make everyone with kids pay extra, not deduct them. I've never had any short people thank God. I consider the little shits to be a pain in the butt and a distraction at best. Nonetheless, over the past 40 years there is no telling how much money in school taxes I've paid. And now I have to take the standard deduction and can't even write that off. People with kids ought to pay double taxes so we without don't have to pay anything - seems fair to me.
Shorty, I used to share your philosophy until I had kids. :)
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Yea! Make everyone with kids pay extra, not deduct them. I've never had any short people thank God. I consider the little shits to be a pain in the butt and a distraction at best. Nonetheless, over the past 40 years there is no telling how much money in school taxes I've paid. And now I have to take the standard deduction and can't even write that off. People with kids ought to pay double taxes so we without don't have to pay anything - seems fair to me.
What makes your property values go up is good schools. Here in Jersey we pay school taxes through property taxes. May be the same all over, I don't know. If schools suck, people don't want to live there.
Remeber, you were a little s h i t at one time and now it seems your a BIG S H I T. It must be nice to be so self centered ... Maybe the rest of us should thank God you didn't have kids ... the gene pool is dead!!!
Oh and what is a fu*king miserable person like yourself thanking God for? I doubt you'll make it to see him.
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ndabunka,
I'm not a teacher but here in Jersey teachers can make decent money. I think they start off with about $40K a year and in a few years they can be up to $55K to $60K a year. If they get into an administrative position I think they are looking at a substancial increase. Every so often a township will strike and then I hear about their salaries. What typically happens here is that the better the school system, the more teachers will get paid.
And lets not forget about their benefits ... pretty darn good.
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Oh Vinny...now I know why you needed that soak tonight! ;)
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FYI:
A friend's father is an IRS auditor, ok?
I went with my friend one day to meet his parents. When he introduced me to his father, he said, "....dad is an IRS auditor, don't make any jokes".
The reason...
an audtior must act upon any lead or suspicious person they encounter, even if the lead originates as the result of a joke.
"Jokes are taken seriously".
Where have I heard that before???? Oh...the airlines!
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How many people have used or will be using their tax refunds to help pay or completely pay for their tub?
I'll start.
I will be doing my taxes today as a matter of fact. (Yes although I'm a youngster, I do my own taxes and have been since I was 20. 8-))
I will be using all of the refund to pay off the tub. This is the first time since owning my house(3.5 years) that I haven't put it towards the principal payment of my mortgage.
Oh well, I feel like I deserve it. :)
TAX RETURN?? What is that?
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ndabunka,
I'm not a teacher but here in Jersey teachers can make [glow]decent[/glow] money. I think they start off with about $40K a year and in a few years they can be up to $55K to $60K a year.
That's more like GREAT!
The median earnings for a man in the U.S. who works full time is $42K.
The median earnings for a woman in the U.S. who works full time is $32k.
Here's a great link to nation, state by state, and male to female median earnings.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/acs-02.pdf
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That's more like GREAT!
The median earnings for a man in the U.S. who works full time is $42K.
The median earnings for a woman in the U.S. who works full time is $32k.
Here's a great link to nation, state by state, and male to female median earnings.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/acs-02.pdf
Whynot,
That is the average for everyone regardless of Education!! I think you need to look at the educational background to make a fair comparison. If you haven't checked lately College isn't cheap. Here in NY the state schools are 14k per year with the private schools starting at 25-45k. I think for the most part teachers earn what they get paid.
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What makes your property values go up is good schools. Here in Jersey we pay school taxes through property taxes. May be the same all over, I don't know. If schools suck, people don't want to live there.
Remeber, you were a little s h i t at one time and now it seems your a BIG S H I T. It must be nice to be so self centered ... Maybe the rest of us should thank God you didn't have kids ... the gene pool is dead!!!
Oh and what is a fu*king miserable person like yourself thanking God for? I doubt you'll make it to see him.
Oh vinny you do indeed need a soak! Let me tell you what makes property taxes go up where I live - the golf course conditions. That's right, a golf course. I live in a country club and the people out here could give a rat's ass about the school system. People move in here or they don't in large measure to how they like the course, the club house, the driving range, the pools and exercise facilities, restaurants, etc. Most of all it is about the golf course. If they like it they'll pay any amount to live out here thus raising average prices and the taxes that go with it. We pay school taxes up the ass but no one out here sends kids to school. And don't give me this crap about "well, you were a kid once" or the future of America is in the school system. Ha, keep reading.
Here is what another poster just wrote, "the schools have full time police presence, metal detectors, drug sniffing dogs, c-thru back packs...". Gosh, that's marvelous! What an enviornment I paying taxes for! I now have to pay for police in the schools. It was not like that years ago when taxes went for real education, not metal detectors.
And I don't mind paying teachers who teach, IF they teach that is. I have a friend in Rochester, NY who was a high school teacher and retired at 55 years of age with a more than fair pension, over $60,000. He worked football and basketball games and the money he earned for that actually became part of his pension, if you can believe that. When he left he was making over $90,000 a year total! A high school teacher we're talking about here and this was quite a time back. He said years ago his "union" worked a honey of a deal on their contract with the school board. He also said it was nearly impossible to flunk poor students and basically the schools anymore are nothing but glorified day care centers. Everything has to be soooooo politically correct that a teacher is better off sitting there at the desk and reading from a book without ever making an explanation, example or point. Did you read the story the other day where a school presented to 8 and 9 year olds a program called the "joys" of being part of a gay family. 8 and 9 year olds? Endorsed and sponsored by the schools I pay taxes to? Well, kiss my ass!
All of this and so much more is looking right at you vinny and you can't even argue your points like a human being, let alone see the other side of the story. Are you such an idiot that you really think I'm saying I don't want schools? Of course not. But I want a school tax break for people who do not send kids to school (in my state, school taxes are frozen after the age of 70 and are not allowed to go up until the property changes hands; now that is a step in the right direction). Myself, I don't care as I have money but a break of some sort will help many older Americans who have no children in school with their sky rocketing property taxes. So wake up. There is another view out there - just clean your glasses and your mind and even if you don't agree at least you'll see it. And if you live long enough, I can promise you'll see it.
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Sooooooooooo How about those Yankees, eh?
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Why Not - Not certain what state your mother-in-law is in but $75K a year for Junior High Teacher is WAY, WAY above the norm. I think you said that hse had a $10K bump due to VP duties but that would still have placed her around $65K/year. My sister-in-law teaches in Charleston SC. She has been doing it for like 5 years. She doesn't make $30K/year (less than 50% of what your mother-in-law appears to get). This is more "normal for NC and SC schools. In fact, I don't think ANY teacher here is able to make more than $45K/year (no matter the tenor). True, they get 2 months off in the summer so $45K is more equivilant to a higher paying "full year" job but in most cases, the teachers around here make around $28K or so for those 10 months of teaching.
We've lost a number of High School teachers for College teaching jobs as they simply could not make over $50K/year teaching in the public school system. Most went to school at night for any additional degrees required to do the college thing.
I've got a friend who has failed at every job they ever had, and was out of work for several years. They have absolutely no expereince teaching and was currently hired as a grammer school sceince teacher with a base pay of $65k a year, plus a few other little kisses from the state, she'll take home $73K this year, work 9 months, and has benifits out the wazooo. Not bad for someone with absolutely no expereince, eh? :P
I belive in public eduaction, but I don't think it's run correctly. Here in MA, the mantra is throw more money at it. The teacher's union is a criminal extortion ring.
And speaking of the IRS and taxes, Dija ever notice "The IRS" actually spells out "THEIRS"???.
Thank you, thank you , I'll be here all week. Try your waitress, tip the veal.
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That wouldn't happen in Pa, but my cousin landed a teaching job in Delaware with just an associates degree. BUT he had tons of experience in the Graphic Arts field, he had owned and run his own company AND he was required to complete his degree with a certification in a certain amount of time.
I think he is the perfect example of a teacher. He knows the material he know the business aspect of it and he is great with kids (has none of his own) Plus no one would mess with him so he is a great dance chapparone! Seriously, he wouldn't be an English teacher, but there would be no one better to teach Graphic Arts. I have been in his class and I was so impressed at the control and respect that he commands.
The teachers in my kids schools average $80,000.00. we are currently in the process of approving an 75,000,000.00 renovation to the High School...a swimming pool, new Astro turf for the football field and high tech science labs..Wooohooo...I see those tax dollars flying. >:( >:(..Now me...I wanted sustainable energy technology..like solar electric that makes sense...but it isn't pretty or prestegious! :-/
My friend pays over 13,000.00 in school taxes and it kills her that my kids get the same education in that fancy smancy school for less than a third of that because I chose to live more modestly! What's fair? She pays more for education because she can afford to live in a big house? I pay less because I am satisfied with my much smaller house? How does that really relate to school taxes? The farmer who lives in front of me is struggling because his taxes continue to increase with all these new additions to the school..he doesn't care about property value, he just wants to make a living farming but I am sure like many he will eventually have to sell to a developer who will add more families to create a greater need for more and better schools and higher taxes and the beat goes on.... :(
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Instead of debating the tax issues, how about we all add a list of deductions ..or changes in the tax laws for this year..
One thing I believe that applies is the energy tax credit..(or is that a deduction?)..there is a difference and I believe it will still extend to 2007!...FF hot tubs do not qualify! ;D
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I'm curious what percentage of income, peoples deductions equal.
Our taxable income ended up being more than 60% less than his actual earned income.
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I'd have to check back, but I'm thinking our total exemptions and actual deductions equal maybe 40% of our gross income, give or take.
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I think for the most part teachers earn what they get paid.
I agree........... what's all the fuss about?
Here's a quote from one of my previous posts.
Are they worth all that?...... I certainly think so.
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Whynot,
That is the average for everyone regardless of Education!!
Median isn't an average!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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If you haven't checked lately College isn't cheap.
Man, you're just full of information!!!!!!
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[]
Median isn't an average!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]
You are absolutely right. Please accept my apology for that oversight. The same principle still applies. Compare salarys with the same educational background for Public Schools and Private sector. You can make a lot more in the private.
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Man, you're just full of information!!!!!!
[/quote]
Thank You, Thank You very much! Just curious WHYNOT, Exactly what is your educational background? You seemed to be so very well informed on many subjects for such a tender age. ::)
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Exactly what is your educational background? You seemed to be so very well informed on many subjects for such a tender age. ::)
Well lets just say enough to figure out how to quote someone correctly.
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So wake up. There is another view out there - just clean your glasses and your mind and even if you don't agree at least you'll see it. And if you live long enough, I can promise you'll see it.
That is a very selfish, shortsighted attitude, and no, I'm not going to agree with you even if I do get old and crotchety.
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Well lets just say enough to figure out how to quote someone correctly.
Just as I thought. Enough said!
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My parents were both teachers for a many years, 2 of my uncles are teachers (one of them is an administrator now), my best friend from HS spent several years as a teacher, only to have to quit because the working conditions and pay were so bad- in So Cal!, and 3 of my local friends are HS teachers, 2 of them are looking into new careers. NONE of these people were/are paid well; all of them experience(d) considerable stress due to the job (that along with inadequate pay) usually leads to moving to a different career. All of them have at least a 4 year college degree if not a master's. My father quit just a few years before his full pension would have kicked in. Some people gave him a hard time for that, but he said that if he had continued to try to work in those conditions, he would not have LIVED to experience his pension. He is not a man prone to dramatic statements.
Teachers are overworked, overstressed, underpaid and under appreciated. Granted, the school systems have more problems than just paying their teachers, but they are also not going to attract quality people into the system unless they can pay them well to put up with the system, and to help change it. Anyone who thinks that teachers overall are paid well enough should try then job for a a couple of weeks.
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Just as I thought. Enough said!
Congrats! :D
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Teachers are overworked, overstressed, underpaid and under appreciated.
Anne,
You can't just generalize all teachers like that. If you read all the posts in this thread you should have noticed that the amount of pay and pension greatly differ from area to area with the majority of them doing quite well compared to the average earnings of a person who works FULL time in the U.S. I know tons of teachers as well(family and acquintances) who absolutely love teaching and everything that comes with it and for the most part, all of us who know them have a great apreciation of them. But of course if one doesn't feel overworked, overstressed, underpaid and under appreciated at some point in their career then they didn't work hard enough to get where they are today, imo.
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Anne,
I've been doing a little research on teachers earnings and thought that this might be of interest to you. :D
http://www.aft.org/salary/2004/download/releases/SalarySurvey-CA.pdf
In my state of MO, we ranked 44th. :(
Which brings me to believe that our local school districts here in a suburb of St. Louis must be pretty darn good. :)
Here's the link to all the states for anyone who's interested.
http://www.aft.org/presscenter/releases/2005/salary_map.htm
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I think you need to look at the educational background to make a fair comparison.
I did some research for you.
The average person who has a bachelors degree earned $51,500 in 2004.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/25/pf/college/census_degree/index.htm?postversion=2006102606
In 2004 the average teacher in the U.S. made almost $47K and in the state of NY(which is the 3rd highest earning teacher state and where I beleive you live), the average was $55K.
http://www.aft.org/salary/2004/download/releases/SalarySurvey-NY.pdf
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In 2004 the average teacher in the U.S. made almost $47K and in the state of NY(which is the 3rd highest earning teacher state and where I beleive you live), the average was $55K.
You are correct I do live in NY. However in NY a Master's degree is required within 5 years of becoming a techer. According to thre link you posted the average salary for those with Advanced degrees is $78093.00 Quite a bit less than the 47k average for teachers. Thanks for the Links, very interesting.
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You are correct I do live in NY. However in NY a Master's degree is required within 5 years of becoming a techer. According to thre link you posted the average salary for those with Advanced degrees is $78093.00 Quite a bit less than the 47k average for teachers. Thanks for the Links, very interesting.
I don't think that requirement is to stricken among other states but I'll certainly look into.
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As with everything else, where you live dictates salary.
Living close to NYC I make more than my counterpart in the middle of Wyoming.
Most teachers that I hear about do have a Masters degree.
WHY NOT, if you think $60K is a great salary you don't want to hear what a stone mason makes here in the NYC area ... :o Years ago, I had an opportunity to get into the pipefitters union, I'm sorry I didn't. The apprenteces were driving big luxurary autos 30 years ago!
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As with everything else, where you live dictates salary.
Living close to NYC I make more than my counterpart in the middle of Wyoming.
Most teachers that I hear about do have a Masters degree.
WHY NOT, if you think $60K is a great salary you don't want to hear what a stone mason makes here in the NYC area ... :o Years ago, I had an opportunity to get into the pipefitters union, I'm sorry I didn't. The apprenteces were driving big luxurary autos 30 years ago!
Vinny,
How much do we make up there?
Btw, pipefitters here in St.Louis are the highest paid of any trade besides machine operaters. Last I heard a commercial pipefitter here makes $40 an hour. They're also the ones who always seem to be standing around.
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When I left Ca bout 8-9 years ago...in San Fran area,Stone masons were making 37 an hr(not including vac etc) and Tile setters were making over 32 an hour. That was/is out of Local 3. Red circle finishers were making 24,journeymen finishers,indentured after wage negotions etc...were making close to 16 an hour(which was/is sad!!)
I visited with my former boss last summer,and for him to employ a journeymen setter,his costs,no profit.....is 53 an hour.
Hope this helps a tad Chad,like someone else mentioned,it's relative to where you live/cost of living.
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When I left Ca bout 8-9 years ago...in San Fran area,Stone masons were making 37 an hr(not including vac etc) and Tile setters were making over 32 an hour. That was/is out of Local 3. Red circle finishers were making 24,journeymen finishers,indentured after wage negotions etc...were making close to 16 an hour(which was/is sad!!)
I visited with my former boss last summer,and for him to employ a journeymen setter,his costs,no profit.....is 53 an hour.
Hope this helps a tad Chad,like someone else mentioned,it's relative to where you live/cost of living.
Thanks autoplay.
We don't make $32 an hour here in St. Louis but we do pretty good.
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Oh vinny you do indeed need a soak! Let me tell you what makes property taxes go up where I live - the golf course conditions. That's right, a golf course. I live in a country club and the people out here could give a rat's ass about the school system. People move in here or they don't in large measure to how they like the course, the club house, the driving range, the pools and exercise facilities, restaurants, etc. Most of all it is about the golf course. If they like it they'll pay any amount to live out here thus raising average prices and the taxes that go with it. We pay school taxes up the ass but no one out here sends kids to school. And don't give me this crap about "well, you were a kid once" or the future of America is in the school system. Ha, keep reading.
Here is what another poster just wrote, "the schools have full time police presence, metal detectors, drug sniffing dogs, c-thru back packs...". Gosh, that's marvelous! What an enviornment I paying taxes for! I now have to pay for police in the schools. It was not like that years ago when taxes went for real education, not metal detectors.
And I don't mind paying teachers who teach, IF they teach that is. I have a friend in Rochester, NY who was a high school teacher and retired at 55 years of age with a more than fair pension, over $60,000. He worked football and basketball games and the money he earned for that actually became part of his pension, if you can believe that. When he left he was making over $90,000 a year total! A high school teacher we're talking about here and this was quite a time back. He said years ago his "union" worked a honey of a deal on their contract with the school board. He also said it was nearly impossible to flunk poor students and basically the schools anymore are nothing but glorified day care centers. Everything has to be soooooo politically correct that a teacher is better off sitting there at the desk and reading from a book without ever making an explanation, example or point. Did you read the story the other day where a school presented to 8 and 9 year olds a program called the "joys" of being part of a gay family. 8 and 9 year olds? Endorsed and sponsored by the schools I pay taxes to? Well, kiss my ass!
All of this and so much more is looking right at you vinny and you can't even argue your points like a human being, let alone see the other side of the story. Are you such an idiot that you really think I'm saying I don't want schools? Of course not. But I want a school tax break for people who do not send kids to school (in my state, school taxes are frozen after the age of 70 and are not allowed to go up until the property changes hands; now that is a step in the right direction). Myself, I don't care as I have money but a break of some sort will help many older Americans who have no children in school with their sky rocketing property taxes. So wake up. There is another view out there - just clean your glasses and your mind and even if you don't agree at least you'll see it. And if you live long enough, I can promise you'll see it.
What I see in you is a miserable person who only had work to fulfil your life ... and golf. You live in a "country club" with a bunch of other richer older adults and complain about taxes for the schools.
As far as an argument - there was none - I was pointing out that you are a BIG S H I T now. I don’t like your attitude towards kids or families with them. Remember when you or your partner dies - either of you will be all alone since you have nothing to look forward to except a game of golf on a BEAUTIFUL golf course without the other one. I’ll take hugs from grandchildren vs counting my money.
People have to live somewhere. How little should people pay? If your going into retirement owing money on a house - piss poor financial planning. BTW, I am one of those piss poor financial planning people. If you only have Social Security benefits again piss poor financial planning.
If I didn't have a mortgage, I would pay $535 a month in taxes, so maybe don’t own a house but then you have rent - here it runs about $900 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment. My next biggest bill is gas/electric for $350 a month. If you can’t afford $885 a month for a roof over your head and gas/electric then where can ANYONE go to live and from what I hear NJ is one of the highest taxed states in the US. Move to Delaware!
My parents were able to retire very comfortably and my father was an immigrant from Italy who didn’t speak English when he arrived here. He didn’t buy extravagant things like hot tubs or $50,000 autos, he saved his money. Also, my father in law retired on not so much, I’ve never heard him complain. All three of them were high school educated only. I see seniors going out and buying $300,000 homes, for what? Then they complain about taxes.
As far as what they teach in school - I don’t agree with all of it. As far as metal detectors - it’s a security issue to protect the kids from loving, educated families from the kids from uncaring, uneducated families. No one is there to guide them properly.
My only complaint about teachers is tenure, no other profession has a parachute that you don’t have to perform and not get fired.
I'm done with this!
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Vinny,
How much do we make up there?
Btw, pipefitters here in St.Louis are the highest paid of any trade besides machine operaters. Last I heard a commercial pipefitter here makes $40 an hour. They're also the ones who always seem to be standing around.
Autoplay gave you a more definitive answer than I could ... I believe it's about $50 an hour. And overtime whenever available.
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Autoplay gave you a more definitive answer than I could ... I believe it's about $50 an hour. And overtime whenever available.
Thanks Vinny.
Heck I could work part time at that rate and still maintain my lifestyle here in the STL!
Got any extra space? ;)
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In response to the ORIGINAL subject... 8-)
My local Sundance dealer e-mailed me this afternoon to say that he had just received a trade-in Sundance Marin (which is my dream tub). I called him back less than an hour later, but someone else had already put a deposit on it. However, those people aren't sure they're buying it - they need to do their taxes first to see if they can afford it.
So, here's hoping someone out there in hottubland DOESN'T spend their tax refund on a hot tub.
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I won't. IF I get a federal refund, I'll just apply it to the May half of my property taxes.
I try and not get tax refunds, or not too big of a one. Maybe enough to buy a new cover. Or some years, a ducky.
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I do not give the government interest-free loans of MY money for any reason, at any time.
So - no refund.
8-)
Along with Chas and Brewman, I too, expect no refund! :)