Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: 69ghia on January 20, 2007, 01:07:05 am
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Hi all,
Would like some opinions on which tub to get. I have narrowed my search to the Jacuzzi J470 and the Hot Spring Vanguard. I can get the J470 otd for $8700.00 for a 2007 model with stereo,steps,lifter and cover.I can get the Vanguard otd for $8900.00 2007 model with the spaudio1, steps, cover and lifter.
Thanks for you help in this matter. ;D
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Wow !!! Those prices are absolutely ridiculous. Good job on your part. 8-) Have you wet tested them yet? Are the tubs at different dealers? If so, go with the one who you think will provide you with the best warranty service. Do a little research on them if you have to. I did and it helped tremendously in narrowing down my search. Let the dealer and the wet test be the deciding factors. I think the Jacuzzi is marked down more then the HS but either way you'll still be gettin' a great tub at a great price! :D
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Those prices look great and are MUCH lower than I've been offered. Just so I am comparing "apples to apples" - do those prices include delivery, tax and start-up chems?
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Those prices look great and are MUCH lower than I've been offered. Just so I am comparing "apples to apples" - do those prices include delivery, tax and start-up chems?
I would say yes as he typed otd(out the door) prices. :D
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What part of the country do you live ?
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The prices are out the door, but I think they will have to crane it into my backyard and that is probably going to cost me an extra $250.00 - $300.00 :-[. I wet tested the the Vanguard and the J480. I liked the vanguards moto massage. I was wondering why the Vanguard has 2 heater options. I think the only difference between the J470 and the J480 is the lounge and about 6inches. I think both companies offer 1 months worth of chemicals(I think that is something standard, but I could be wrong) The HS come with a electric panel that they claim is worth $300.00. Since both tubs are real close in price I am at a stand still. :o Also both dealer have told me that I don't need to have concrete pads and I could use pavers, but the prep books from both companies show concrete is recomended. Quote from Jacuzzi prep book" free standing bricks,gravel,pavers,plywood, and railroad ties are not considered proper foundations. I was also told to expect to pay $500.00-$700.00 for the electrical work.
Thanks again,
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Hottubdan I live in Socal (Irvine)
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The prices are out the door, but I think they will have to crane it into my backyard and that is probably going to cost me an extra $250.00 - $300.00 :-[. I wet tested the the Vanguard and the J480. I liked the vanguards moto massage. I was wondering why the Vanguard has 2 heater options. I think the only difference between the J470 and the J480 is the lounge and about 6inches. I think both companies offer 1 months worth of chemicals(I think that is something standard, but I could be wrong) The HS come with a electric panel that they claim is worth $300.00. Since both tubs are real close in price I am at a stand still. :o Also both dealer have told me that I don't need to have concrete pads and I could use pavers, but the prep books from both companies show concrete is recomended. Quote from Jacuzzi prep book" free standing bricks,gravel,pavers,plywood, and railroad ties are not considered proper foundations. I was also told to expect to pay $500.00-$700.00 for the electrical work.
Thanks again,
Sounds like you got everything under control. 8-)
You can't go wrong with either tub. It's strictly a personel preference. Let us know when you pull the trigger. :D
Btw, if the HS dealer is talking about the 60 amp Hot tub panel needed to run the 240v out of, they cost less than $100. I got mine at Lowe's for $82. It's a Cutler Hammer 60 amp, 240 v.
I own a Jacuzzi myself and this is what my manual says about foundations:
3.0 Choosing A Location
IMPORTANT: Because of the combined weight of the spa, water and
users, it is extremely important that the base upon which the spa rests
be smooth, flat, level and capable of uniformly supporting this weight,
without shifting or settling, for the entire time the spa is in place. If the
spa is placed on a surface which does not meet these requirements,
damage to the skirt and/or the spa shell may result. Damage caused by
improper support is not covered under the manufacturers warranty. It is
the responsibility of the spa owner to assure the integrity of the support
over time.
We recommend a poured, reinforced concrete slab with a minimum
thickness of 4 inches (10cm). Wood decking is also acceptable provided
it is constructed so that it meets the requirements outlined above. The
spa must be installed in such a manner as to provide drainage away
from the spa. Placing the spa in a depression without provisions for
proper drainage could allow rain, overflow and other casual water to
flood the equipment and create a wet condition in which it would sit.
For spas which will be recessed into a floor or deck, install so as to
permit access to the equipment, either from above or below, for servicing.
Make certain that there are no obstructions which would prevent
removal of the cabinet side panels and access to the jets components,
especially on the side with the equipment bay doors.
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Btw, if the HS dealer is talking about the 60 amp Hot tub panel needed to run the 240v out of, they cost less than $100. I got mine at Lowe's for $82. It's a Cutler Hammer 60 amp, 240 v.
There is only one heater on the Hot Spring Vanguard. This is NOT a 60 amp panel. You will get a free subpanel with your Vanguard. All 240V Hot Spring Spas come with a subpanel. You don't have to go buy anything extra for that portion. You may need a 50 amp breaker in your main panel, but your electrician will handle that. If you are handy, then you can do it easily enough. I did. You will NOT need to go to 60 amp service. It will be a 50 amp service.
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There is only one heater on the Hot Spring Vanguard. This is NOT a 60 amp panel. You will get a free subpanel with your Vanguard. All 240V Hot Spring Spas come with a subpanel. You don't have to go buy anything extra for that portion. You may need a 50 amp breaker in your main panel, but your electrician will handle that. If you are handy, then you can do it easily enough. I did. You will NOT need to go to 60 amp service. It will be a 50 amp service.
I'm not sure why you quoted me. :-/ Either way won't there be a need for an auxilary panel, whether it's a 50 or 60 and whether it's provided or not. Mine tub requires a 60 to run both pumps and heater so that's why I said 60. I was just trying to make a point that his quote for $300 was ridiculous!
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what is the difference between the No-fault,6000w/230v heater and the 230v,50hz 1500w heater on the vanguard?
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That price for the 470 is about 3000 less than what we sell it for specially for an "07"
The Vangaurd goes around here 9700 or so. spa for spa at that price I would be all over the J-470 but thats me. Price doesnt always matter.
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what is the difference between the No-fault,6000w/230v heater and the 230v,50hz 1500w heater on the vanguard?
I believe the 6000w/230v is American and the 50hz 1500w is international.
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Hi all,
Would like some opinions on which tub to get. I have narrowed my search to the Jacuzzi J470 and the Hot Spring Vanguard. I can get the J470 otd for $8700.00 for a 2007 model with stereo,steps,lifter and cover.I can get the Vanguard otd for $8900.00 2007 model with the spaudio1, steps, cover and lifter.
Thanks for you help in this matter. ;D
The 400 series is a bigger and more expensive tub then the Vanguard. It is a much better comparison to compare the 400 series with the Grandee.
The Vanguard is somewhere in between the 300 series and the 400. In my opinion the Vanguard is better quality wise and feature wise then the 300 series. But it can not be directly compared to the 400.
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Still unsure of which one is better, reading up on this forum, and to hear some have had problems with the spaudio1 with their Hot Spring Vanguard. I also don't know how good of a deal $8900.00 otd for a vanguard with the spaudio1 is vs $8700.00 otd for the 2007 J470
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The 400 series is a bigger and more expensive tub then the Vanguard. It is a much better comparison to compare the 400 series with the Grandee.
The Vanguard is somewhere in between the 300 series and the 400. In my opinion the Vanguard is better quality wise and feature wise then the 300 series. But it can not be directly compared to the 400.
Not sure I agree with that in regaurds of the quality and features related to the vangaurd and 300 series it would depend on which model you were comparing it to.
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Still unsure of which one is better, reading up on this forum, and to hear some have had problems with the spaudio1 with their Hot Spring Vanguard. I also don't know how good of a deal $8900.00 otd for a vanguard with the spaudio1 is vs $8700.00 otd for the 2007 J470
Like JJ said, spa for spa at thet price the J-470 is a better deal as far as pricing is concerned. It's all up to you to decide which one suits you better. You're gettin' a better deal than most have when purchasing those tubs, so you really can't go wrong.
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Not sure I agree with that in regaurds of the quality and features related to the vangaurd and 300 series it would depend on which model you were comparing it to.
I completely agree. Once you get up to the J-365, they're pretty comprable to the Vanguard.
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I am leaning towards the 2007 J470 for $8700.00 OTD, it seems to be a good deal and its a bigger tub and has those cool dual led waterfalls and a vulcano jets on the bottom of the tub. :D But.....what about the vanguards 100% no bypass filtration..???? Does it really make that much difference?
Also both sales people are telling me that I can put both tubs on pavers.
Still Confused........................................
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what about the vanguards 100% no bypass filtration..???? Does it really make that much difference?
Ut oh. ::) :-X :D
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Ut oh. ::) :-X :D
One can of worms, now open!!! :P :P
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I am leaning towards the 2007 J470 for $8700.00 OTD, it seems to be a good deal and its a bigger tub and has those cool dual led waterfalls and a vulcano jets on the bottom of the tub. :D But.....what about the vanguards 100% no bypass filtration..???? Does it really make that much difference?
Also both sales people are telling me that I can put both tubs on pavers.
Still Confused........................................
You're going to find propoenents of both spas but in reality they'll probably all tell you that both are viable options. You're not going to find anything here to tell you which of these final 2 spas YOU should own. Go with your gut.
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And a wet test.
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From what I have read they are both good spas: it really boils down to your personal choice (wet test .. wet test.....) I can't talk to those spas but I can talk about putting a spa on pavers.
We bought a Hot Spring Grandee about six months ago (500 gallons, 1000 lbs empty, 6200 lbs filled) and were faced with the same dilemma. Because of the size of the tub, the Grandee can't be shimmed for leveling: the pad must be level. Our tub sits on a small patio about three steps down from our deck. We compared and considered pavers, flat concrete, and stamped concrete. We put it on pavers and have been very happy. The part of the patio that is under the hot tub has a deeper "foundation": it was built to driveway specs vice patio specs. The contractor who build the patio was recommended by the hot tub dealer. I know several other people who put their tubs on pavers without problem. The way I see it, if it will hold a car (2000 lbs nominal, maybe one square foot of bearing space for the four tires for a load of 2000 lbs per sf, it should handle a tub. In the case of my installation, the footprint of the tub is 64 sg ft. If we assume that the bearing surface is only 10% of the total area, given the weight of the tub that would be a load of 970 lbs per sf. The bearing surface would have to be only 5% of the total area for the load to be equivalent to the working load for a car. I admit this is a "back of the envelope" calculation, but I think it is reasonable. I did it to double check what my contractors and dealers were advising me when we put our tub in this summer.
Another advantage of the pavers is that it is easier to combine the slope required for drainage on the patio and yet have the area under the tub level. In fairness, you also need to consider the soil. Our "soil" here is about 2 inches thick. After that you need a pickaxe to break up the rock. The builder had to blast to put in basements and foundations for the houses.
The bottom line: based on my experience (admittedly limited) and my reearch (reasonably extensive) I would not worry about pavers providing they were installed to driveway standards.
Good luck with your decision!
Bill
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Thanks again to everyone, you all have been great. I will make my choice soon. I will let you all know what I purchased.
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The price you got on the J470 is amazing. its the same price i paid, but you got a cover lifter included. The tub is amazing. there is no way you can compair the j470 to the vanguard. In my opinion you cant compair any 400 series to any HS tub. the Jacuzzis 400 series is just amazing. youll love the 470, i do!
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I just got a quote to run the electric for the Jacuzzi and they want $980.00 to do the job and to install the concrete pad they want $750.00.
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I am also installing a new tub next week and the electric quote is only $300.
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I got four quotes for doing a 220 hook up. Quote was for running the 220 from the panel to the other side of the house (25' +/-), hook up to the HS provided sub-panel, and then a 20' run from the sub panel to the tub. Quotes were from a medium sized firm, a two small local firms, and electrician doing "side work." Quotes ranged between $1,400 to $1,700. OUCH
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Apple,
Where abouts do you live? $300.00 sounds a lot better.
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Here in Idaho, I had 220 run out of my main meter box, into a spa breaker box, and then approximately 30 feet to my tub. I also had my entire service upgraded from a 100 amp service to a 200 amp service (which was rather extensive) and the entire bill was $1200 (750 for the service upgrade and 450 for the tub run). I thought I got a good deal.
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HOLY COW! [smiley=shocked.gif] My guy only has to run the line +/- 10 ft to my breaker box and he said something about 2 lines being typical. Your installation sounds way more complicated.
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I live in Denver. The electrician was recommended to me by a friend, but I have never used him before.
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Received a 2nd quote for the Jacuzzi electric install for $750.00. I am getting ready to pull the trigger and get the 2007 Jacuzzi J470 and pass on the Hot Spring Vanguard. :)
Anyone disagree? :-?
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Received a 2nd quote for the Jacuzzi electric install for $750.00. I am getting ready to pull the trigger and get the 2007 Jacuzzi J470 and pass on the Hot Spring Vanguard. :)
Anyone disagree? :-?
There is no right or wrong here, either would be a good choice. If that's what you're leaning toward go for it and let us know how it works out.
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Just got another quote for $1300.00 :o He wanted to also upgrade my electrical box for a mere $2200.00 Going to get another quote this Sunday. I will also stop by my local Jacuzzi dealer to drop off the deposit for the J-470, they said it will take 3-4 weeks to hatch. Can't wait. ;D
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Jacuzzi 400 series only has two pumps?? Is one dual speed or is there a third pump for circulation?? Their web-site doesn't seem to provide much info, maybe I just couldn't find it.
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there is a third circ pump.
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Jacuzzi 400 series only has two pumps?? Is one dual speed or is there a third pump for circulation?? Their web-site doesn't seem to provide much info, maybe I just couldn't find it.
The '06 400 series(don't know if anything has changed for '07) have (2) 1 speed 2.5 hp pumps and a 24/7 circ, for a total of three.
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Count down til my jacuzzi dealer opens. 3hrs til deposit time. :D
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Count down til my jacuzzi dealer opens. 3hrs til deposit time. :D
69, did you pull the trigger?
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what color shell and cabinet are you going to get. i got onxey shell and rosewood cabinet. the cabinet goes with my clear coated ceder siding. i love my 470. you will too. dont make the mistake and go with the hotspring for less money. all hotsprings models are very overpriced. Its do to there aggresive marketing, TV comerricals, ect. Hotsprings are basic, quality tubs, period.
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Well, if you want to compare we paid $8,900 for our Vanguard last March and it did not come with a Spaudio. We did get steps thrown in, and deluxe lift for the top. Our electrical cost us $700 and we paid $900 for a 15'x20' concrete slab (found someone on craigslist to do concrete work).
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we paid $900 for a 15'x20' concrete slab (found someone on craigslist to do concrete work).
Wow, that's really cheap! Where about are you located? I work construction and have an aquintance who does flat work. He charged me $700 for a 10' x 17', that included a cement truck delivery as well. He said he would have given me a better sq. ft price if I would've gone bigger.
Did you do any of the prep work yourself?
Do you mind sharing the details on his work? i.e.- did he use a cement truck or did he use the bag stuff, did he use a rock foundation, how thick of a slab, any rebar or any other type of reinforcement, did he pier it, and what kind of finish did you go with?
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dont make the mistake and go with the hotspring for less money. all hotsprings models are very overpriced.
Hmmmmm......let's look at this statement for a second for curiosity's sake:
If the HotSpring is overpriced, what would be the appropriate price, in your opinion?
Why is the other brand not overpriced, in your opinion?
What does the other brand offer to justify the higher price?
Why do I see some other brands of spas that are over $12,000 and I wonder what makes them worth that price?
(Our most expensive spa is under $11,000, by the way. The four best selling spas in the world (Jetsetter, Envoy, Vanguard, Sovereign) are all under $9500.)
I'm anxious to hear some more opinions regarding this. :)
Been a busy weekend at the boat show. Made a LOT of people happy. :)
Terminator
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Like Gombo, wondering if trigger was ever pulled.
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69, did you pull the trigger?
Trigger pulled....Jacuzzi J470 Baby... Thanks to my local Hot Spring Dealer, he was upset that I used this forum for a outlet for information and shared my "secret deal"with this forum. :'( I was glad he showed his true colors, I was about to buy the Grandee from him. He claimed some dealer in S.F lost a sale over my shared info.(sorry about dat).
I'm in sales as well , but I would rather make $100.00( sure it would have been more) profit and have a customer for life which would have lead to more accessories sales and me spreading the word to my customers about his dealership. I thank all of you here for sharing your info. ;D
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Trigger pulled....Jacuzzi J470 Baby... Thanks to my local Hot Spring Dealer, he was upset that I used this forum for a outlet for information and shared my "secret deal"with this forum. :'( I was glad he showed his true colors, I was about to buy the Grandee from him. He claimed some dealer in S.F lost a sale over my shared info.(sorry about dat).
I'm in sales as well , but I would rather make $100.00( sure it would have been more) profit and have a customer for life which would have lead to more accessories sales and me spreading the word to my customers about his dealership. I thank all of you here for sharing your info. ;D
Sore loser! Did you tell him that many successful and award winning HS dealers are represented here, and are not threatened by the sharing of information? Did he take into consideration that geography influences sale price, so there was no reason for your conversation here to have anything to do with someone in SF?
Congrats!!!
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Wow, that's really cheap! Where about are you located? I work construction and have an aquintance who does flat work. He charged me $700 for a 10' x 17', that included a cement truck delivery as well. He said he would have given me a better sq. ft price if I would've gone bigger.
Did you do any of the prep work yourself?
Do you mind sharing the details on his work? i.e.- did he use a cement truck or did he use the bag stuff, did he use a rock foundation, how thick of a slab, any rebar or any other type of reinforcement, did he pier it, and what kind of finish did you go with?
I'm in the suburbs of Seattle, near Mt Rainier. We had a hard time finding anyone who wanted to do a job this small, but I found a guy on craigslist that did cement sidewalks, porches, etc.
He did use a cement truck and as far as prep, I dug out the old grass and that was pretty much it. As far as the cement goes, it was an OK job. It had a few spots where bubbles popped up leaving small holes but that didn't really matter since I covered the cement with slate anyway (which didn't turn out too bad). First photo is my tub during install. Second photo is my tile work (first time doing slate). Instead of putting the slate down first, I put the tub on the cement and slated up to the tub. I used black silicon around the tub so you can't tell that the tub is not sitting on top. My wife was happy with the finished product (she didn't think I could do it).
(http://hyak.net/temp/spa1.jpg)
(http://hyak.net/temp/spa_tile.JPG)
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Jack_L,
Thanks for the reply.
Your patio looks nice. I'm a tile/stone setter myself. Not bad for your first time doing slate. How come you didn't bury the electical line in the slab? Other than that looks really good. 8-)
Btw, out of curiousity, what kind of mortar and grout did you use and did you use any kind of crack resistent membrane?
Thanks,
Chad
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Trigger pulled....Jacuzzi J470 Baby... Thanks to my local Hot Spring Dealer, he was upset that I used this forum for a outlet for information and shared my "secret deal"with this forum. :'( I was glad he showed his true colors, I was about to buy the Grandee from him. He claimed some dealer in S.F lost a sale over my shared info.(sorry about dat).
I'm in sales as well , but I would rather make $100.00( sure it would have been more) profit and have a customer for life which would have lead to more accessories sales and me spreading the word to my customers about his dealership. I thank all of you here for sharing your info. ;D
69ghia,
Congratulations on the new purchase!
Welcome to the Jacuzzi Club. 8-)
May your wait for delivery be short and sweet
Chad
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Hmmmmm......let's look at this statement for a second for curiosity's sake: What does the other brand offer to justify the higher price?
Terminator
Another thought: HotSpring is just a little more expensive - or at least percieved to be more expensive- yet they have always been the most popular.
Depending on the market you live in, many brands have increased prices so that HS is no longer the most expensive. YMMV of course, but I have seen many spas going up over the $12K price which do not have as many cool features as the good ol' Grandee, Vista and Envoy. And the new 30th Anniversary 'Aria' model comes with the sound system built in and every other bell and whistle for around ten or eleven.
Just a thought.
8-)
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Another thought: HotSpring is just a little more expensive - or at least percieved to be more expensive- yet they have always been the most popular.
Depending on the market you live in, many brands have increased prices so that HS is no longer the most expensive. YMMV of course, but I have seen many spas going up over the $12K price which do not have as many cool features as the good ol' Grandee, Vista and Envoy. And the new 30th Anniversary 'Aria' model comes with the sound system built in and every other bell and whistle for around ten or eleven.
Just a thought.
8-)
An 07 vanguard out the door with everything including the spa audio folr under 9K? That was an excellent price. Granted, it didn't seem to be the deal for this particular person, but that was a good deal.
O
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I'm in sales as well , but I would rather make $100.00( sure it would have been more) profit and have a customer for life which would have lead to more accessories sales and me spreading the word to my customers about his dealership.
I'm not sure I agree. We keep one sales price for everyone and while some can get that price down a bit with good haggling skills there is no way we'd sell somethig for $100 over costs just to make the sale and have a happy customer. We have certain margins we have to meet to be successful (pay rent, employees, mortgage, eat, etc.) and if you drop that low for some customers eventually others expect the same. The key is to give a[glow] truly [/glow]good deal to all that should satisfy both customer and dealer (though that won't always be the case) but you can't compeletely cave in on your pricing just to make a sale and some customers will walk if they don't get it on their terms but that is their choice.
Now from a consumer standpoint, give it a shot and try to get the absolute best deal you can but if the dealer says he can't go that low you also need to respect the fat that he/she has the right to say "no thanks" just as much as the customer does.
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Exactly Spatech!
Not everyone that walks through our door is someone we necessarily want for a customer. It gets to a point where the headaches and aggravations associated with a particular shopper makes it better to just let them walk on down the street. Makes everyone happier. :)
And I'm not talking about the original poster, btw. Congratulations and good luck with your spa. :)
Terminator
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Jack_L,
Thanks for the reply.
Your patio looks nice. I'm a tile/stone setter myself. Not bad for your first time doing slate. How come you didn't bury the electical line in the slab? Other than that looks really good. 8-)
Btw, out of curiousity, what kind of mortar and grout did you use and did you use any kind of crack resistent membrane?
Thanks,
Chad
If I had it to do over again, there are changes I would have made. Since I really didn't know what I was doing, I was just doing one step at a time. Slab, tub/wiring, then slate. The slate idea actually came after the tub was installed to cover up the few bubble holes in the concrete, and the wife thought it would look nice. (got to go with what the wife wants)..
Picture below was taken a couple weeks ago when we had a little bit of snow and temps were running around 20 degrees outside. I had to strap down the pergola (sp) because of nasty wind storms a few weeks ago that knocked out power to 500,000 people here in WA. I don't have it bolted down to the slab yet so I didn't want it to go wandering on me. (wife in photo)
(http://hyak.net/temp/spa_snow.JPG)
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Jack_L,
Wow, you're quite the handyman!
Great job on the pergola and even better job on gettin' the wife. 8-) I'd do what she says too. :)