Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: loosenupspas on January 24, 2007, 08:27:38 am
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Any other dealers receiving strange calls using an internet operator speaking on behalf of a hearing impaired person who is seeking to purchase a hot tub. I have received two call in the last year. In both cases attempting to have tubs shipped to Ghana through the same shipping company Global. Can anyone shed some light on what is going here. It is sham....right?
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Loosenup, the first indicator for me would be the operator, but who knows. My sister is hearing impared and we communicate via the internet. I know that if there was anything that she needed, she could easily relay that message. It has simplified her life tremendously. I would think that if someone was serious about a hot tub purchase, because they are financially able to have one, they would also have internet access.
I'm not saying it is a scam, but it sounds strange to me since the internet has virtually opened the world to hearing impared folks. ;)
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This is definately a scam.
Here's how the Counterfeit Check /Cashier's Check scam works:
The key ingredients:
* selling on-line
* buyer from a foreign country
* offering to pay with bank cashier's checks
* wants to pay several thousand dollars more than the asking price, and
* wants you to send back the difference.
The details: You are selling an item over the Internet - it could be a hot tub, a motorcycle, or even puppies. You receive an email offer (the operator is a new twist) to buy at your asking price - say, $4000 - and the buyer says he'll send a bank cashier's check. The buyer is from a foreign country... usually Nigeria or "West Africa" but lately I have seen them from just about anywhere.
At the last minute the buyer asks to send you a cashier's check for $3000 MORE than your asking price, and asks you to send him the difference -- "but only after the cashier's check clears, of course." (Perhaps he explains that someone in the U.S. owes him $7,000 and it would be simpler if that person just sent the cashier's check to you and you sent him the $3,000. Or, perhaps he says he needs the extra dollars for shipping.)
You are skeptical - but, sure enough, the bank cashier's check arrives by Fed Ex, it looks real, your bank accepts the check, and the bank assures you the funds are in fact available. So you wire $3,000 to your buyer in the foreign country and prepare to ship your item.
A week later your bank calls: "We're very sorry, but the cashier's check was counterfeit" -- a superb copy, but worthless. Your account is frozen. You must pay the bank back $7,000. You may even be considered a fraud suspect yourself. Your "buyer" disappears.
Stay clear of this scam! Remember, if it sounds too good to be true then it is.
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Global is a legitimate world wide shipping company.
However, Ghana is becoming the new "Nigera" for scams. Remember all those e-mails about helping a Nigerian cival servant transfer millions of $ out the country? Ghana and West Africa have become a hotbed of international fraud, so I would be cautious. You will have very little - if no- legal recourse or protection in dealing with Ghana.
I haven't heard of any Scams about hot tubs per se'. (most are with precious metals or love interests), however this could be variant of the old bad check scam, or they ask you to cash a check form a friend in the states for much more money than the item costs and have you ship the tub, and the remianing balance to them. (of course the check is bad). Be wary of international customers from third world countries that are willing to over pay.
That being said, who knows? I would be extreamly cautious. Why would Ghana call your little shop? ::)
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Oh...tell them there is a hot tub dealer in CO on the internet that brags about being an international provider of tubs....send them there. Have them tell the owner that they are a super high end genius too and to ask for the Diat upgrade ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Most likely a scam. Especially since it's from another country. There's an easy way though, to tell. Right off, tell them that for international sale all you accept for payment is a wire transfer. No checks, no credit cards. Most of the time they'll go away. Actually, 99.99999% of the the time they'll go away. If this is acceptable to them, then it might be real (we've sold a few to people in some odd countries, that I was sure was a scam). If they agree to a wire transfer, and you're still suspicious, open up a new bank account and have them transfer the funds to that account. IMEADIATLY transfer any funds they deposit into that account into your main account, BEFORE shipping any products.
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Smells pretty funky to me. Are there not any spa dealers over there?
Anywhere on the continent would have to be cheaper and easier than what this solicitation is asking to do.
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Any other dealers receiving strange calls using an internet operator speaking on behalf of a hearing impaired person who is seeking to purchase a hot tub. I have received two call in the last year. In both cases attempting to have tubs shipped to Ghana through the same shipping company Global. Can anyone shed some light on what is going here. It is sham....right?
We got the EXACT same call a few months back. I happened to be there when the sales person answered and after listening to the exchange a minute I had her tell the person we were not interested unless the person came in the showroom. At first the salesperson was a bit miffed because she thought this might be a real lead for her but I assured her it was a scam. Now I can forward your message on and she'll flip because it was also the deaf thing with some operator translating. There was a show on TV last month about how this service is there for deaf people and federally funded but they said about 90% of the calls are others using it for ill gotten gains and the scamming going on is HUGE. I wish I remembered what show it was.
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He is telling me only pay by credit card, no gonna do it. Am I the only one who hears from these people? If so, why me?
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We got the EXACT same call a few months back...
Since they are still looking, it appears that this poor deaf person has been trying to obtain a spa to ease his/her aches and pains for a long time, but can't find anyone who will sell him/her one. Poor thing! ;)
They must get enough takers to keep at it. You'd think they'd have exhausted the pool of spa-selling suckers by now, and moved on to another big-ticket item.
Loosenup, you obviously aren't the only one, so the question is what do you and Spatech have in common? Do you each have a website, or have you listed a spa on e-Bay or craigslist? I guess if nothing else, they could get contact info through the manufacturer's website.
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Like I said, no wire transfer, no deal. Make up an excuse, like " we're unable to process non-US credit cards and can only accept foreign payments via wire transfer." Anyone in a third world country (or old Eastern European country) that can afford a spa, can afford to pay cash. We sell a few a month to these areas of the world, and there's NEVER been an issue (with legitimate customers) with paying by wire transfer.
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Try to barter with them...maybe get a container of AK-47's or RPG's off the black market. Go to www.thescambaiter.com to pick up some tips. Maybe you can sell some ANUS Laptop computers to the Clique Mob, but beware of the Governor!
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/clique.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/7.jpg)
Terminator
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Loosenup, you obviously aren't the only one, so the question is what do you and Spatech have in common?
I think it was the "kick me" sign on our backs.
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I would tell them that have to Wet Test first. ;)
Tell them you don't want to be responsible for the shipping charges back from Ghana when they decide to return the tub because they don't fit under the corner neck jets.
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I may have gotten one of these calls. The reason I'm not sure is that after just a few moments trying to answer a few questions another operator came on the line and said that they suspected this call was a fraud, and asked if I would like to continue or have them simply disconnect.
I thanked them and said to disconnect.
Now that I have read your posts, I think this may very well have been this same scam.
8-)
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Funny, We had the same kind of call about 2 months ago. Only this guy wanted a pool heater. Pretty nice pentair one too. Knew some details about the heater but obviously had never seen a pool in his life. Couldn't answer many simple questions about the pool. Gallonage, pumps, filters. Told him to e-mail specs. Then the boss got a call also. Same guy. Only the boss has more time on his hands to screw around, so he played with it for a while, all the time assuming it was a scam. Finally did tell the guy to wire the dough, and haven't heard from him since. Funny thing is he started getting his info mixed up because he first said he was out of the country, then he was a couple blocks from our warehouse, then the heater was a gift for his fathers pool in denmark. If you're bored,I guess it could be fun to toy with one of these twits for a while. Remeber the longer you waste their time and they don't get paid. You're saving someone else that may miss that phone call and save them a lot of money. Advice: ask lots of questions, make sure the info jives, repoprt it. They may be able to trace it. Ask for site pictures, and always trust your gut feeling.
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it is the 419 fraud!!! It originated in Nigeria. It is very common problem that has plagued police departments all around the world. The downside, not much we can do about it.
I did a search on Wikipedia and here is what I found.
An advance fee fraud is a confidence trick in which the target is persuaded to advance relatively small sums of money in the hope of realizing a much larger gain.
The most visible form of advance fee fraud today is the Nigerian Letter or 419 fraud, named after the section of the Nigerian criminal code that it violates. Originally sent by mail, and later by fax, the Nigerian Letter is now sent almost exclusively by e-mail. A typical letter claims to come from a person needing to transfer large sums of money out of the country. As the Nigerian letter has become well known to potential targets, the gangs operating the scams have developed other variations. The targets are often told that they are the beneficiaries of an inheritance or are invited to impersonate the beneficiary of an unclaimed estate.
In "The Spanish Prisoner" scam, one of the earliest forms of advance fee fraud, the target is told that a wealthy individual is being held hostage and will reward those who help to transfer the ransom money. Another common gambit is a fake lottery in which the targets are told that they have 'won' a large prize but must pay an 'administrative fee' before they can receive it. After the 'administrative fee' is paid, the scammer vanishes.
In one development of the scheme, the perpetrators use a counterfeit cashier's check to buy an expensive item such as a car or boat from people advertising goods in online classifieds. The target is given a fake check for an amount greater than the value of the item, and asked to return the difference.
The most recent scheme is to ask individuals to deposit a check into their account then to forward a percentage (80%-90%) to a company that supposedly is owed the amount. Of course the check is counterfeit and by the time the depositor's bank finds that out, the funds have been transferred.
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It's hard to believe, but people really do fall for those scams.
Two years ago, a man and his wife were in my store buying chemicals. I was chit-chatting with the lady whilst her husband talked on the cellphone. I overheard him saying something about "if I wire the $10,000 to them, you and I will split the $24,000,000 in the bank account".
I interrupted him and asked "You weren't contacted by someone in Nigeria that wants you to front some money so that you can get a percentage of millions of dollars, were you?"
His eyes got wide and he asked "How do you know about that?!"
I told him it was a 419 scam and he should check out www.ebolamonkeyman.com to learn more....and if he sent that money, he'd never see it again.
It took me awhile, but I finally convinced him that I was telling the truth. He then told me that it was his lawyer on the phone and that his lawyer had said it sounded legitimate, so they were about to do it.
The man and his wife thanked me profusely. They also swore that the next spa they got would be a HotSpring. (They had bought a Jacuzzi Spa at the state fair in Dallas, so that tells you right there that some folks are just naturally succeptible to being exploited).
True story.
Terminator
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Just this month, and engineer (mechanical) walked into my office and he was mad that the computer allowed him to enter his credit card info into a phishing site, and $1000 was charged to it. The virus protection/firewall we installed didn't protect him. I tried to show him how to tell a phishing site from a legit one and he didn't have time to listen.
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We get it all the time too - in my case, they're asking to buy large quantities of books, instead of spas. Often through the teletype system too: as others have pointed out, it's intended to be a helpful tool for the deaf, but it ends up being abused 99% of the time.
In many cases, it's people pulling scams that they don't want to have traced. They get on a public computer - like at a library - and contact the teletype system through them.
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Be careful with cashiers checks- it can take many weeks for the counterfeit ones to be discovered. That's the time the scammers use to get their victims to wire them an amount of money. Wire transfers are not reversible.
You get a cashiers check, it appears to clear and your bank account gets credited, you wire transfer a portion of the cashier's check back to the scammers, and then the cashier's check gets discovered as bogus, and your bank account is charged back.
Scammers make a few hundred or several thousands per victim, and being outside the country makes it impossible or unlikely for anyone to catch them.
This scam's been around so long it's surprising that it still works. Some people just won't wake up and realize that THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.
Why would anyone give away $24,000,000 for $10,000?
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This guy claimed the the tub was heading for Alaska. I told him that he would have to buy in there from the Coleman dealer, he declined. The strange thing is that it happened to us twice in less than a year. His email provider was based in the middle east. It is the internet, it is corrupting everything. There is too much previously personal private information available on the web. Google is the devil.........yikes
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This guy claimed the the tub was heading for Alaska... His email provider was based in the middle east...
Now just a minute -- first it was an operator assisted phone call, with the tub going to Ghana... now it has morphed into an Alaska destination and e-mail! :-? Which is the scam -- the contact or your post? ;) ;D
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Same scam.....Ghana sounds suspicious......Alaska not as suspicious.......A marketing improvement I suppose. The common thread is hearing impaired internet operator, shipping company based in Ghana, urgency to purchase and credit card only. At least this is my experience........A stolen hot tub, a car is easier to understand etc.......tubs are so equipment specific with electrical requirements and needs for chemicals and they weigh 800 lbs. May be they go to a hot tub chop shop....that is it...sure.
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Email is the communication device.
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On a positive note.... I do use the deaf hearing service regularily to talk to a cousin of mine who have been deaf since birth. He also periodically sends emails but by now I have gotten so used to the "relay service" that he uses that I just talk to the operator like I would to him. It can be pretty funny sometimes and those ladies must be able to type 10-gazillion letters a minute to keep up with some of this stuff. Just wanted to let you know that the relay serivce (telephone translation from tty) is a great service and works well for it's intended audience.
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Absolutely.....a Blessing.
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In our Local Paper just this Sunday, they had full front page (on the local section) features of 2 area folks who have been scammed by Nigerian frauds. Both of these folks were Doctors. One lost thier money to the notorious Nigerian scam to smuggle money of the country, the other fell victim to the "black money" scam, where the mark is asked to give an advice fee to purchase a special chemical that will literally wash trunk loads of money that have been chemically treated with a black ink.
It amazes me that in today's age, where ANY information you want is just a mouse click away that folks can be so gullable. I guess the lure of free money and riches truely does cloud even the most intteligent minds...
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I suppose it's all large numbers. They spam out to thousands, for the hope of hooking one or two. I bet a few thousand dollars U.S. goes a long way in Nigeria.
If you apply simple common sense to much of this scam stuff, you can usually sniff it out for what it is. Simply asking yourself WHY would they do this should be enough.
I equate it to those people selling programs on how to get rich quick. If those plans, whatever they are, are so wonderful, why are the people not doing the plan themselves, keeping all the secrets quiet, and making their millions instead of trying to convince others to do it, charging them for the "secrets".
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If those plans, whatever they are, are so wonderful, why are the people not doing the plan themselves, keeping all the secrets quiet, and making their millions instead of trying to convince others to do it, charging them for the "secrets".
That's the hook, they present what seems to be a legitimate reason why they need your help, and they don't send it out to thousands, they send it out to tens of Millions. Ahhh technology.
Back in highschool we'd B.S eachother about possible scams and ways to get easy money, one method that I thought was ingenious was the "sports prediction" letter where you take an inital pool of say 10000 folks and send them a letter claiming to be able to predict the winner of ball games with 100% accuracey and you are willing to sell them the method. But before even asking for thier money, you will Prove to them beyond a shadow of a doubt the it actually works. You then tell them that over the next 4 weeks you will pick the winner of monday night football.
1/2 the folks get the letter saying team A will win. The other half get the letter that says team B will win.
After the first game, half the folks will think your an idoit, because you predicited wrong, the other half will be interested because you got it right.
Of the folks who got the right letter, you split them again, 50% now get a letter saying Team C will win next week, , 50% get a letter saying team D will win.
After the game, half of those folks think you've predicted right, why the other half have thrown your letter away.
You keep this up for a few weeks, until you are left with a group of folks who belive you have picked the winner perfectly. IT's from this group you ask for the money for your system.
The only problem with the above was postage costs. You would need ten's of thousands of dollars in postage to do this, however, with the interent mail is "free". You could run this scam to hundreds of thousands of folks for the cost of a spammer's list.
:o
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Hmmmmmmm, reminds me of a Simpsons episode ;)