Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: SpaNE on December 03, 2006, 09:24:57 pm
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The general advice on this forum is to always wet test. Well, I went for a wet test yesterday and it only left me wet and confused. :-/
Background: I am looking for a spa approximately 7' x 7' for 5-6 people. No huge Maxxus for me - actually the smaller the bester IF it meets my needs. I want a reliable model from a well respected long term manufacturer with good dealer support. Price is very flexible - I could spend $10K or more, however, would love to spend much less if possible. Spa to be used by wife and I, plus 2 kids age 10 and 15 - probably friends and family from time to time. Undecided on a lounger but like the idea. Absolutely love "bell and whistles" like waterfalls, lights, etc.
The largest dealer in my area caries both HotSprings and Sundance - so I took a dip in the Envoy and the Optima. The dealer told me that these were his two top selling models. My impressions...
HotSpring Envoy. LOVED the variety of jets and getting a different massage from seat to seat - Moto DX, Soothing Seven, Rotary Hydromassage, etc. Lounger fit very nice - I could imagine leaning back and enjoying watching the stars at night from this seat. However, the Moto-massage suffers from the inability to adjust the speed of the jets going up and down your back. IMO it moved too fast and I thought it would be great to slow it down like a real massage. Overall a bit of a disappointment (but it did give a very nice neck massage). The absolute BEST jet was the rotary hydro, however, this jet was not in one of the comfortable contoured corner seats (why not?). There was no easy positon for entry and no cool down seat. The Vanguard had the cool down seat, however, it "wasted" 2 premier positons to the moto that I was slightly disappointed in. IMO, the BellaFontana is ok, the Soothing Stream isn't even a real water feature. Overall a very nice spa but full of compromises for $10K.
Sundance Optima. Loved the 4 comfortable corner seats and the cool down seat. Loved the adjustability of all the jets with convenient controls. However, every seat seemed the SAME - there is very little variety between all the seats and jets. The HotSpring seemed much better in this regard. I had mixed feelings on the footdome - seems like a good idea for leverage, however, every seat gets the same foot jet pressure because it is not variable from seat to seat. Loved the AquaTerrace water feature - very nicely designed and implemented. Unfortunately he did not have one of the lounger models to wet test like the Cameo or the Altamar. Overall a very nice spa but full of compromises for $10K.
Sadly I didn't get to test any of the audio systems, however, I am a bit of an audiofile so I doubt I would be too impressed with these features. Please let me know if I am missing something here.
Overall - I still have no idea what spa is best for me. :( Any and all suggestions would be welcome.
Almost forgot - this seems like a great forum with a lot of good advice and mature posters. :)
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Welcome to the land of spatopia.
It seems to me like you have things pretty much under control. :) Just keep wet testing all the major manufacturers' spas in your area until one stands out amongst the others. Having the flexibility of no price limit takes away alot of headaches. Most are not as fortunate. Enjoy all the wet tests and keep us posted on how things are going.
Tileman
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Hi SpaNE
Sounds like you have been busy! I can't comment on the Sundance models, however, I just purchased an Envoy which was delivered a week ago. I think your wet test was right on target with the Envoy. The entry/exit issue and the lack of a cool down seat are the two things I first noticed also. However, although I am only a week into the new tub, I am becoming more comfortable getting into and out of the tub by way of the lounger. I just step into the "seat" of the lounger. Interestingly, the lounger also is serving as my cool down seat. I just sit on the raised knee portion of the lounger with one 'cheek' on each side :D Plus, I find the rear deck area of the tub to be plenty wide to sit up on to cool off.
Although I have positioned my spa in such a way that I can't do this, when I saw the Envoy at the dealer, he was using two sets of steps. One was in front at the lounger, and the second on the right side of the tub. That way you could step into the seat next to the lounger which is easier than stepping into the lounger.
On the music end, I purchased the Spaudio II system. I am a big time music lover and I am enthralled with the system. I find that the external pair of speakers set very low and used in conjuction with the transducers in the tub, give me great sound. (I listen to mostly popular, rock&roll, dance type music) Also, when I have had people over and we have been talking in the tub, the music is not overpowering at all. It's just kinda there, coming out of the water in the tub. VERY UNIQUE. I realize it is an expensive option (I think I paid about $1,800 for it) but I love it and do not regret it one bit. Plus, you get the IQ remote with the system which controls both the tub functions and the Spaudio.
I definately agree with you regarding the variety of seats in the Envoy. I've spent the last week bouncing around the tub and still am not certain which one is my favorite! The lounger and the two corner seats are completely different from each other, and all three have great foot jet action.
I just thought I would give you a newbies' impressions of the Envoy. Hope it helps in your ultimate decision.
Good Luck
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Funny what you said about the moto-massage jets! A lot of folks love them, but I thought the exact same thing: waaaaaay too fast for me. Also, I have to say that I agree w/ lack of variety in the Optima jets. But we bought it anyway!!! That was the only "con" on my list. That said, after having owned it for several months I do not have jet regret... there plenty of foot, calf, lower/mid/upper back, shoulder and neck jets. For the parts where this is no specific jet (hand/wrist) there is usually an empty jet within reaching distance.
We started off in the same boat.. not having a solid budget.. not knowing what features we wanted.. lounger/no lounger... etc. As we wet tested a number of spas our likes/dislikes became clear. My advice to you would be to do the same: look at and test drive as many as you can. We looked at Hot Spring, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Arctic (IMO the best variety of all we tested), Caldera, D1, and few others. Beachcomber, Artesian and Marquis we also on our "must see" list, but there were no dealers in our area. Once we were clear we even went back and re-wet tested a few of the earlier brands. Good luck.
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DO not get hang up with the amount of jets a spa has.
the most important thing for me is for mostly that the seats and or the lounger are compfy. If you want all the bells and whistles you probaly have to go with a higher priced model.
keep wet testing and ask questions here on the forum.
Each dealer will tell you that he has the best spa.
soon you will be in spatopia like everybody else here.
keep us posted
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SpaNE, it sounds like you're on the right track. Just be thankful you wet tested. Can you imagine the feeling of disappointment you would have had using the spa for the first time after spending 10K?
The Optima and Envoy are very nice spas. Those were actually my first two picks. You might get used to the DX Moto Massage. I have one and rarely leave it for another seat. If you like variety you might want to look at the Marquis Epic. Also, the Caldera Geneva/Tahitian are pretty nice if you like a lounger.
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Do you have a Marquis dealer near by? If so, take a look at the Epic, I think it may fit your needs. I have a friend who is seriously looking for a tub and as I have been telling her things to look for, they are the things I love about my tub. It is large enough for my family of 4 (teenagers, 14 and 15). And there is still room if we wanted to invite others. It has 2 cool down seats and easy access getting in and out. The lounge is great with neck, thigh, calf and foot jets as well as a full complement of back jets. The deep therapy seat is my favorite. It has back, neck and shoulder jets, as well as foot jets. Additionally there are two therapy pillars for concentrated massage.
It has all the bells and whistles, including an in home monitor and a remote in the tub. The Soundsations sound system is really fantastic and it includes the Dolphin remote that controls the sound system and all the tub functions. The waterfall is topped with a serving tray for drinks.
Wow I really do love my tub!.... ;)
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Hi Spa NE,
I do not know where you are in NE, but if you can check-out Crocker Sales in Woburn mass they have a couple line of top end tubs and are super easy to deal with. I bought a Piper Glen from them about 2 years ago and still love the tub and their servies is great We are located in Dracut, MA
Good luck
john mcdonough
jcmsrv@yahoo.com
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I have a 2 month old HS Vista, which is a little bigger than the Envoy. I had the same impression on sundance as well. I liked the D1 and Coleman tubs.
The two D1 dealers near my home made me walk away. And my wife didn't care for the Coleman headrest, otherwise it would have been the tub.
Keep wet testing you'll find the right tub. I wet tested the HS 4 different times basically on the same days I tested other brand. That help me decide on the best tub. Didn't make the wife and kids happy going back to the same dealer :)
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Hi, SpaNE.
Glad that you chimed in! You do sound like you have a good handle on what's important to you. Hang onto that and you won't go wrong.
This may sound very patronizing (since all you're getting is text) but I certainly don't mean it that way. :) Not long after you buy your tub, you will forget all about all the important criteria you used to judge tubs while testing and you will focus on one thing: DOES IT MAKE ME FEEL GOOD? It sounds too overly-simplistic to be true but that's really the measure of the tub that's right for you. I know that you're looking for "toys" and since they're important to you, by all means get 'em! Like Frank says though, expect to pay for them too!
My only advice is don't get too distracted by these extras. I'd suggest wet-testing the tubs on your short list without all the gismos going. I absolutely guarantee that there will come a night when you want to shut off all the lights, jets, waterfalls, etc. and just look at the stars. COMFORT should be your priority.
Here are some things that my family discovered while wet-testing and after delivery:
1) Tubs with variable height seating are definitely more versatile. That cool-down seat is a wonderful thing - especially if you have kids.
2) Do not underestimate the therapy of footjets. I never expected to like them, but I often now leave these on long after I've turned off the back jets.
3) A foot dome is essential for those times when you want a really deep back massage. Crank those jets to that level of intensity and you need to be anchored or you'll be blown out of your seat!
4) After only one month, we find that the tub is used more and more for quiet soaking. It's just way more relaxing for us to switch off all the lights, pumps and music and let the warm water do its work.
Have fun testing and don't rush it. I've no doubt that when you find the tub that fits you best, you'll know it! I just hope that you tell us when it happens. ;)
Good luck!
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I have to agree with all the other posters so far- you'll know the right tub after you soak in it. Personally, I had a Sundance for many years, and really liked it. If you're thinking of a lounger, you might look at the Sundance Cameo- it has a greater variety of seats than the Optima, so you might like that too.
Others have mentioned Artesian and Caldera- aside from Hot Springs and Sundance (which you've already tried), those are two of the better reviewed brands here- especially the Artesian "Platinum" series and the Caldera "Utopia" series (since you mentioned that budget isn't too much of an issue). Artesian's seats (in the Platinum series) each have their own dedicated pump, so they're very adjustable to exactly what you want. Caldera's seats are often dedicated to a particular area of the body (lumbar, upper back, legs, etc.), which you might like as well. If I were you, those would be next on my list.
As for the "bells and whistles"- if you read through a lot of reviews here, you'll find that many of the extras (stereos, TVs, waterfalls, etc.) don't get used after a while. Furthermore, they seem to be the first things to break in your tub, leading to annoying service calls. I'll echo the PP in stating that great foot jets are a must- we've found that our legs & feet are often much more sore than we realized. A "volcano" type jet (pointing upwards in the middle of the tub) is great for getting the sides of your legs, feet, & other parts that in-wall jets just don't reach very well.
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You might get used to the DX Moto Massage. I have one and rarely leave it for another seat.
I'll second that. My wife didn't seem to care about it when we got the tub, but now that we've had it for awhile, the fists are starting to fly over who gets it! ;D It seems from everyone here, as far as moto goes, people either love it or hate it. Good luck in your quest.
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If you have a Caldera(same manufact as Hot Spring) dealer around, check out the Aspire. I wet tested with my wife and 3 kids(ages 6,9 & 12). We were surprised we had plenty of room for a 7 X 7 tub. We were looking for one with all the bells and whistles. It comes with the Spa-glo lighting(inside and out), stereo and an ajustable waterfall. I have not bought it yet but will in a couple of months.
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dont force yourself into a particular brand, I would suggest to you to try a couple of other brands. This may make you like a different tub, or make you like the tub you originally tried. You are deffinitely doing the right thing. I do not believe that purchasing a tub is a split second decision. You have so many factors to consider. Appeal, what options to get, feel, dealer reliability, manufacturer reputation etc etc etc. Keep looking and learning, and it will make your decision so much better.
Not to be the arctic pusher, but if you are looking for a smaller tub check out the arctic fox. It is a beautiful tub and is 7x6. There are different models to choose from with this brand.
(http://www.arcticspas.com/images/spas/large_spas/fox_ultra.jpg)
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Thanks for all the great comments and suggestions so far. Looks like I came to the right place for information. :)
I think my next step will be to wet test some of the spas recommended like the Caldera, D1, Marquis, etc. Unfortunately it looks like buying a spa will be far more difficult that I anticipated - I was sooooo hoping that the HotSpring or Sundance would be perfect for me. Many of the dealers for these other spas are far away and most only have 1 or 2 models to wet test. :(
Reminds me of the recent expreience I had buying equipment for my home theater. The recommendation from the forums was to listen and demo as many projectors and speakers as you can to find out exactly what you want. While this is great advice (and exactly what I did) it does takes a lot of time and energy. Additionally there are very few dealers that have the equipment you want set up in a proper environment for auditioning.
I often envy people who can make quick decisons - and be happy. :o
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Hi SpaNE and welcome to this forum!
Let me offer this advice and observation from another spa newbie (we have had our Tundra for about a month and a half now) - THERE IS NO PERFECT SPA! in terms of layout and configuration of seating; variety of jets and their configuration; style of construction; number and strength of pumps and amount of power supplied to each seat, etc. We searched for about 3 months before buying and came to the conclusion there is no one mfg that offers everything that we wanted; not even Arctic. So, I believe you are going to have to compromise as a "choosy" buyer. And I don't mean that as disrespectful; rather as a compliment. We were choosy as well and that is why it took so long for us to make up our minds. I have read too many posts from people who buy the first one or two tubs they look at without investigating ALL the choices they have in their market. This is a decision you are going to live with for quite some time, so be careful, go slowly, and wait until you've found the right one for yourselves. This may mean soaking in a tub more than once (as we did).
I think it's a good idea to write down the key elements that are most important to you and then prioritize them so that you can start ruling out specific mfgs and models. For example, it foot jets are most important to you, then only consider those models with well laid out and accessible floor jets (or better yet, a footdome which also doubles to hold in "floaters" on a lot of units). Do you like to sit very upright or recline slightly? Units like mine have some of each, but a lot of units have one or the other. But these are all personal preference items and only you can decide what is best for you.
While I'm not going to recommend a certain brand to you, I FULLY AGREE with you that variety in feel and jet styles is one of the most important considerations IMO. There are some brands (which have been mentioned in this thread) that have only 1 or 2 different styles of jets and while they may be arranged in different configurations, after a while, they all feel the same which can lead to boredom. I think this is one of the most important features to look for. Good luck in your search.
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I skimmed most of the responses and I don't think anyone mentioned this, but if they did I apologize. In terms of the Envoy and the rotary jets that you liked so much, but missed having in a corner seat... you can buy them and exchange them into the corner seat next to the soothing 7. We initially just swapped them out, but I missed having them in the original position, so I got some extra to put in that corner seat.
Also, I do as some mentioned and we enter/exit through the soothing 7 seat and that has worked just fine. While I do wish that seat was a cool down seat since it is semi-worthless (I could take it or leave it, but it is our least used seat unless the 2 yr old is in the tub), I also use the knees of the lounger and really like doing it that way because I get the best foot massage at the same time.
Good luck in making a decision.
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SpaNE
I sounds like your looking at NE Spas. If so, which store? If you like the Optima, did you check out the new Grandee? My next choise would be Caldera. Arctic, Marquis and Artisian have strong followings. Many of my friends own Coleman. A lot has to do with the dealer in your area. Don't discount that.
Good luck in your research.
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SpaNE
A lot has to do with the dealer in your area. Don't discount that.
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Although this is a factor, I'm not sure how much significance I should put into it. Even though the dealer has been in business a long time and is well respected - that is no guaranty that they won't close the doors, go bankrupt or otherwise.
Case in point - I bought a John Deere tractor from a local dealer rather than the big box retailers because I was "sold" on the local service and support. 2 years later my dealer went out of business. Now if I want John Deere service I need to travel over an hour away. :'(
Personally I think the strength of the manufacturer is much more important because if one dealer goes out of business someone else probably has an interest in picking up the line - or at least servicing all the current customers.
Just an opinion. ;)
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IMO, both are important, but you certainly want to start with a strong manufacturer. Your connection to the manufacturer is going to be your dealer. If your spa is down in the middle of winter, it is the dealer who will have to come and fix it. A good manufacturer with a bad dealer can be as frustrating as a good dealer with a bad manufacturer.
As manufacturers go, you've started with two of the best.
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Hi SpaNE and welcome to this forum!
I think it's a good idea to write down the key elements that are most important to you and then prioritize them so that you can start ruling out specific mfgs and models.
Good idea. Here is my initial list:
1. Top tier spa manufacturer in business a long time and well respected.
2. Quality, variety and adjustability of jets for massage circuit therapy.
3. Approximately 7' x 7' spa that seats 5-6 people.
4. Variety of seats at various heights potentialy including a lounger and cool down seat.
5. Waterfall, lights and possible audio system that can be used with an iPod. (I love bells & whistles.)
6. Silent continuous filtration
7. Great dealer with terrific support
8. "Good looking" spa. I like the coastal grey cabinets with sterling marble shells and stainless stell jet trim.
9. Price - the lower the better.
10. The rest I didn't list because I assume every spa from a top tier manufacturer should have: powerful pumps, low maintenance, great warranty, great filtration, energy efficient, ease of use, etc.
If the spa meets all the above it comes down to the wet test and comfort. :D
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First keep in mind you can't buy a Mercedes at the price point of a Chevy. So, as most would agree, you get what you pay for. I think for a unit that you are looking for, you will be in the $8-13K range based on all the bells and whistles you finally decide on.
You've got a good check list, but unfortunately I do not agree with your assumption on #10. All spas are NOT built the same and you should investigate these items carefully; both here and with the dealer/mfg. They are some of the most important aspects of buying a good quality spa.
Keep us updated on your search.
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If the dealer you wet tested the SD and the HS did not have the new HS Aria on the floor for you to wet test, you may want to wait and try it out. It seems to have all the features you are looking for and fits the size to a T. (http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/shabba34/aria_marble.jpg)
Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but as Brooke did, I just breezed through this topic.
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If the dealer you wet tested the SD and the HS did not have the new HS Aria on the floor for you to wet test, you may want to wait and try it out. It seems to have all the features you are looking for and fits the size to a T. (http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/shabba34/aria_marble.jpg)
Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but as Brooke did, I just breezed through this topic.
I do like the Aria from the description, unfortunately my dealer did not have one in stock. I will certainly check it out when he gets one in.
I am curious to see how the new music system sounds?
I read on another thread that some of the posters thought it was overpriced, however, at this time in my research I have no idea.
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You've got a good check list, but unfortunately I do not agree with your assumption on #10. All spas are NOT built the same and you should investigate these items carefully; both here and with the dealer/mfg. They are some of the most important aspects of buying a good quality spa.
Keep us updated on your search.
I agree they are important, however, you may have misunderstood my comment that these items should all be available in a "top tier spa." What top tier spa will not have powerful pumps, low maintenance, great warranty, great filtration, energy efficient, ease of use, etc.?
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SpaNE
I sounds like your looking at NE Spas. If so, which store? If you like the Optima, did you check out the new Grandee? My next choise would be Caldera. Arctic, Marquis and Artisian have strong followings. Many of my friends own Coleman. A lot has to do with the dealer in your area. Don't discount that.
Good luck in your research.
New Grandee?
Did they release a 2007 version?
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If the dealer you wet tested the SD and the HS did not have the new HS Aria on the floor for you to wet test, you may want to wait and try it out. It seems to have all the features you are looking for and fits the size to a T. (http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/shabba34/aria_marble.jpg)
Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but as Brooke did, I just breezed through this topic.
He wants a spa that will seat 5-6 people comfortably. The Aria to me looks like it will only seat four.
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Good idea. Here is my initial list:
1. Top tier spa manufacturer in business a long time and well respected.
2. Quality, variety and adjustability of jets for massage circuit therapy.
3. Approximately 7' x 7' spa that seats 5-6 people.
4. Variety of seats at various heights potentialy including a lounger and cool down seat.
5. Waterfall, lights and possible audio system that can be used with an iPod. (I love bells & whistles.)
6. Silent continuous filtration
7. Great dealer with terrific support
8. "Good looking" spa. I like the coastal grey cabinets with sterling marble shells and stainless stell jet trim.
9. Price - the lower the better.
10. The rest I didn't list because I assume every spa from a top tier manufacturer should have: powerful pumps, low maintenance, great warranty, great filtration, energy efficient, ease of use, etc.
If the spa meets all the above it comes down to the wet test and comfort. :D
I was trying to avoid pushing the brand of spa I bought like everyone else did but after seeing your list I couldn't help myself. :) If you haven't checked out Jacuzzi yet, you need to. They meet all your requests except for maybe the ipod capable stereo. I didn't research stereos that much b/c imo they are a waste of money, so I just don't know. Everything else is good to go.
If you like great looking spas as much as you say you do, then it gets no prettier than the Jacuzzi shells. I will post a pic of mine for you. If you want to see more go to my topic "Pics for All" on page 4 of this forum.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tileman_photos/IMG_0016.jpg)
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The 07 Sundance stereo will include an ipod/satellite docking port.
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New Grandee?
Did they release a 2007 version?
The 07 Grandee is updated with waterfall/fountain, etc. Looks real nice.
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The 07 Jacuzzis will have the Ipod also as well some new models that will give Sundance a big run for there money. May be worth it to wait till next year its not that far away. On the other hand most Jacuzzi dealers are running a end of the year promo to blow out the 06s. ;)
I like many others here think the stereos are nice but not worth the money,most manufactures only carry a 1 year warrantee on stereo's so if it breaks in 3 years its a little spendy to replace, out of 100 or so stereo's we sell a year we may replace 2 or 3 not a bad record but still not worth the price, IMO
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Good idea. Here is my initial list:
1. Top tier spa manufacturer in business a long time and well respected.
2. Quality, variety and adjustability of jets for massage circuit therapy.
3. Approximately 7' x 7' spa that seats 5-6 people.
4. Variety of seats at various heights potentialy including a lounger and cool down seat.
5. Waterfall, lights and possible audio system that can be used with an iPod. (I love bells & whistles.)
6. Silent continuous filtration
7. Great dealer with terrific support
8. "Good looking" spa. I like the coastal grey cabinets with sterling marble shells and stainless stell jet trim.
9. Price - the lower the better.
10. The rest I didn't list because I assume every spa from a top tier manufacturer should have: powerful pumps, low maintenance, great warranty, great filtration, energy efficient, ease of use, etc.
If the spa meets all the above it comes down to the wet test and comfort. :D
I was trying to avoid pushing the brand of spa I bought like everyone else did but after seeing your list I couldn't help myself. :) If you haven't checked out Jacuzzi yet, you need to. They meet all your requests except for maybe the ipod capable stereo. I didn't research stereos that much b/c imo they are a waste of money, so I just don't know. Everything else is good to go.
If you like great looking spas as much as you say you do, then it gets no prettier than the Jacuzzi shells. I will post a pic of mine for you. If you want to see more go to my topic "Pics for All" on page 4 of this forum.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tileman_photos/IMG_0016.jpg)
tileman, that certainly is a nice looking spa. What model is it?
The Jacuzzi website is one of the worst I have seen - not a lot of information or a good view of their spas. I don't hear jazuzzi mentioned much - not sure why? How to they compare to Sundance, HotSpring, D1, etc.?
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Thanks. It is a J-345.
Their website isn't the best as far as pictures go but I found it rather informative. The best way to see if you like a manufacturer though, is to visit a dealer first hand. I visited 8 different ones in my search until and finally chose a Jacuzzi.
One of the main reasons you don't hear about them alot on this forum is because Watkin Manufacturing dealers tend to take it over. Especially there Hot Springs line. There is only one Jacuzzi dealer who frequents this forum and thats JIM, and he has only been here a short while. Besides dealers, us consumers hardly plug our brands. I don't find it neccessary unless someone like yourself posts a list that matches a Jacuzzi to a T. There is however 3-4 happy Jacuzzi owners who frequent this forum. If you go to this site's review section you will find quite a few on Jacuzzi's.
They are in the same class as the other spas you mentioned. If you have any more q's don't hesitate to ask as I know quite a bit about all their tubs.
Talk to you later,
Chad
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The #1 reason more HS dealers participate here is statistically, there are more HS dealers than those of other brands.
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The #1 reason more HS dealers participate here is statistically, there are more HS dealers than those of other brands.
Jacuzzi dealers are to busy selling spa's :P
HS dealers have more time to spend here. Just kidding of course. ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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Good idea. Here is my initial list:
1. Top tier spa manufacturer in business a long time and well respected.
2. Quality, variety and adjustability of jets for massage circuit therapy.
3. Approximately 7' x 7' spa that seats 5-6 people.
4. Variety of seats at various heights potentialy including a lounger and cool down seat.
5. Waterfall, lights and possible audio system that can be used with an iPod. (I love bells & whistles.)
6. Silent continuous filtration
7. Great dealer with terrific support
8. "Good looking" spa. I like the coastal grey cabinets with sterling marble shells and stainless stell jet trim.
9. Price - the lower the better.
10. The rest I didn't list because I assume every spa from a top tier manufacturer should have: powerful pumps, low maintenance, great warranty, great filtration, energy efficient, ease of use, etc.
If the spa meets all the above it comes down to the wet test and comfort. :D
I was trying to avoid pushing the brand of spa I bought like everyone else did but after seeing your list I couldn't help myself. :) If you haven't checked out Jacuzzi yet, you need to. They meet all your requests except for maybe the ipod capable stereo. I didn't research stereos that much b/c imo they are a waste of money, so I just don't know. Everything else is good to go.
If you like great looking spas as much as you say you do, then it gets no prettier than the Jacuzzi shells. I will post a pic of mine for you. If you want to see more go to my topic "Pics for All" on page 4 of this forum.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tileman_photos/IMG_0016.jpg)
tileman - I visited a Jacuzzi dealer today and I really liked the J-345. Seems to meet most of my requirements. Unfortunately he didn't have one to west test - the only spa with water was the 480. :(
He quoted me $7K, however, I think from a previous post you paid much less? Seems like a lot of spa for the money. Why is Jacuzzi so much lower in price than Sundance?
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tileman - I visited a Jacuzzi dealer today and I really liked the J-345. Seems to meet most of my requirements. Unfortunately he didn't have one to west test - the only spa with water was the 480. :(
He quoted me $7K, however, I think from a previous post you paid much less? Seems like a lot of spa for the money. Why is Jacuzzi so much lower in price than Sundance?
Hey, what's up Spa NE.
I paid $6095 for a 2006 model in October but that was right before a $300 price increase for all their spas. I was able to get the old pricing b/c I had been looking at their spas for quite awhile. Was that quote they gave you for a '06 or '07? Where are you located? Prices really do vary quite a bit from city to city. So I don't think a couple hundred dollars more is to much for it.
I too was drawn to Jacuzzi for the reason. I just couldn't find a better spa in it's class for the money. I think that's what the 300 series were built for. To give you the high quality spa features at a more affordable price. It's funny b/c when I went to Jacuzzi for the first time I came to this forum and posted the exact same question.
With all that being said I'd schedule a wet test as it seems you really like the tub and it meets all your criteria. Do not be alarmed by their lower prices. Believe me when I tell you that it is a very good spa and we'll just consider ourselves very fortunate to have found them.
Let me know how everything goes, especially if you go for a dip in the 345. :)
Chad
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Hello SpaNe-
Sounds like you and I should connect- I am one of the owners at N.E.Spas--
I appreciate the feedback you've gotten from the members-- all good.
I also appreciate your understanding the value and importance of the brand/dealer
strength, reliability, refererences,and years in business.
I think it has aslo been made clear that both Hot Spring and Sundance spas have adjustable jets and awesome stereos (ipod ready in 07).
How can I be of service to you?
Norm Coburn
norm@nespas.com
508-655-8266 x11
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You've got a good check list, but unfortunately I do not agree with your assumption on #10. All spas are NOT built the same and you should investigate these items carefully; both here and with the dealer/mfg. They are some of the most important aspects of buying a good quality spa.
Keep us updated on your search.
I dissagree Wes. I think he said all of the top teir manufacturers would all have this stuff dialed in. And I think it is true. If the pump, filtration, energy usage, and ease of use of one of the current top teir mnufacturers was not good, it would not be one of the top teir manufacturers. There may be differences but they all do it more than suffiecient.
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My final choices are coming down to the SD Optima @ $9K, SD Majesta @ $8K, and Jacuzzi @ $7K. All include cover, lift, steps, ozone and chems. Prices do not include tax.
I just don't see the value of either of the 2 Sundance spas over the Jacuzzi so that will probably be my final decision.
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Have you looked at a Marquis Epic or the Caldera models mentioned? Let us know which one you go with.
My final choices are coming down to the SD Optima @ $9K, SD Majesta @ $8K, and Jacuzzi @ $7K. All include cover, lift, steps, ozone and chems. Prices do not include tax.
I just don't see the value of either of the 2 Sundance spas over the Jacuzzi so that will probably be my final decision.
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visited a Jacuzzi dealer today and I really liked the J-345. Seems to meet most of my requirements. Unfortunately he didn't have one to west test - the only spa with water was the 480.
He quoted me $7K, however, I think from a previous post you paid much less? Seems like a lot of spa for the money. Why is Jacuzzi so much lower in price than Sundance?
My final choices are coming down to the SD Optima @ $9K, SD Majesta @ $8K, and Jacuzzi @ $7K. All include cover, lift, steps, ozone and chems. Prices do not include tax.
I just don't see the value of either of the 2 Sundance spas over the Jacuzzi so that will probably be my final decision.
The difference in pricing between Jazuzzi and Sundance tubs you've looked is due to the lines the spas are from. Jacuzzis "top" line is 400 series & comparable to Sundance 800 series; while Jacuzzi 300 series is comparable to Sundance 700 series. A fair price comparison for the J-345 would be Bahia which runs between 6 and 7K. The Optima is comparable to the 470 which runs 10K or so. The 800 series tubs have titanium heater, different filtration system, air bubbler and probably some other upgrades I've forgotten. That said the Jacuzzi 300 series are very nice looking tubs and look to be very high quality for the money. I don't think you can go wrong with it.
FWIW Although we bought a Sundance, the Jacuzzi dealer is 2 minutes from our house so that's where we get our spa & pool water tested. We did wet test the 470/480 b/c that's what the dealer had filled but couldn't justify the $$. We stop in once every few weeks .. and check out the 300's ...and admire their price tags! Lotta spa for the $. :)
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Caldera Tahitian. Great spa, great price, meets the needs and wants. Either that or the Caldera Aspire. Adds stereo.
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Go with the Jacuzzi. I can tell it's what you really want.
I think you can see what Tileman was getting at when he said this site is over ran by Watkins Manufacturing. You will be more than happy with the J-345. It's one of the best spas for the money, imo.
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Go with the Jacuzzi. I can tell it's what you really want.
I think you can see what Tileman was getting at when he said this site is over ran by Watkins Manufacturing. You will be more than happy with the J-345. It's one of the best spas for the money, imo.
Actually I am looking at the Jacuzzi J365 (sorry I did not make that clear). I think it is very comparable to the SD Optima and $2K less. I just don't see the value in the "advantages" of the Sundance:
1. Titanium heater. I don't care if it is made of kryptonite - I haven't heard reports of Jacuzzi heaters going bad.
2. Microclean filter. Yeeesch! Every spa has some fancy name for a filter for marketing. I haven't heard reports of dirty water in the Jacuzzi.
3. Stainless steel trim on the jets. I do like that - it looks cool.
4. Adjustable air in the jets - great marking, however, didn't seem so great in the wet test. Couldn't really tell the difference between the SD or Jacuzzi jets during my brief wet test.
Maybe I'm missing something? Maybe the SD is better - heck I really don't know. I'm willing to spend $10K or more if I can see the value. Maybe I'll keep looking...
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The Optima is more in line with the 400 series Jacuzzi spas. The J365 is an excellent spa with the LCD electronics (same as Optima and J400's). It is a step up from the J345.
The Optima is in the Sundance 880 series which is on par with the Jacuzzi 400 series. The Jacuzzi 355 and up is like the SD 850 series while the Jacuzzi 345 and down is like the SD 700 series. All good spas, but different technologies and bells and whistles.
BTW, if you don't like the Microclean II filter on the new Optimas, you can replace it with a regular pleated filter. Something many dealers won't let you know.
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Have you looked at a Marquis Epic or the Caldera models mentioned? Let us know which one you go with.
I discounted Marquis and Caldera because I could not locate a good dealer - either too far away or not knowledgable.
The top dealers around me sell HotSpring, Sundance, Jacuzzi and D1. I want to choose a spa from this group.
1. D1 spas are ugly. OK, this is entirely subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My feeling is that I wouldn't date an ugly girl and I won't buy an ugly spa.
2. HotSpring. I really wanted to like this line, however, the Moto thing just doesn't work for me. I could deal with this (especially because I do like the neck jets in the moto) if they had a no lounger spa with the moto in only one seat. Alas...the Grandee and Vanguard both have 2 motos. Arrrragggh.
3. Sundance. Like the Optima - it has it's faults however I could learn to love it. Trying to justify $2K price over the Jacuzzi 365.
4. Jacuzzi. Like the J365 - it has it's faults however I couldlearn to love it. Trying to decide if it makes sence to pay $2K more for the Sundance. I'm not sure? Maybe I'll decide to wait until 2007 when my local dealer gets some new 470s in - I think that is one good looking spa.
Still wet and confused...but with a slightly better understanding of what I'm looking for. ;)
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Having only dry tested the 365 here are my thoughts on comparsion .. For us it was about asthetics and fit... the Optima seemed much roomier for our family of 4 and had seats at different heights (we have an 8yo daughter and some of the tubs had no seats that worked for her).. Also we loved the 8 foot jets (vs 4) & the foot volcano jet.
I can sympathize with you on saving 2K. We were in a similar position trying to decide between a Caldera Niagara and Optima. We could've saved over 2K on the Niagara and there were some features on the Niagara I loved. Tested the larger music spa but were unable to wet test the Niagara so that was one strike. In the end my husband decided.. said that if we settled we may regret it... The spa is going to be around for a long time and we should buy the one we really wanted.
Was it painful paying the extra 2K? You bet. :-/ Have we given it a second thought since buying the Optima? No way!!! In fact, the 5-6 nites a week we're in the tub... we comment on how great it is. All that being said... It comes down to what YOU want in a tub and what works for you. If you can't justify the value in the extra 2K then go with the 365. Buy what feels right and you won't be sorry.
PS if you're still on the fence .... go back and wet test the tubs you like back to back so you can have a fresh comparison. It's not an easy decision. We actually took a break from making a decision because it was so stressful. :)
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In the end my husband decided.. said that if we settled we may regret it... The spa is going to be around for a long time and we should buy the one we really wanted.
Smart guy that husband of yours. ;)
...and that is why this is such a difficult decison for me. I'm thinking I may be better off waiting until 2007 and buying the Jacuzzi 470 with the stereo as this is the spa that "seems" to be perfect for me. I only wet tested the 480 but they seem very similar except for the lounger.
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yes, he is! ;)
If you love the 470 then by all means go for it. Let's face it spsa are luxury items... and if its w/in your budget, you should buy exactly what you want. It would really su*k to spend 7K and wish you were sitting in something else! That would stress me out and I'd end up resenting the whole experience. :(
Good luck and hang in there. I know the indecision is nearly unbearable (at least it was for me.. I was obsessed with making a decision). In a couple months hopefully it will be water under the bridge.. or should I say ... water on the patio/deck!?
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I recently bought a J-365 and am loving it. My fiance and I looked at and wet tested the Optima too. We had the extra budget to spend but decided on the j-365. My reasoning for this was the j-365 still had a cooling seat or two, but we liked the continuity in the seat height. This would allow more people to be pretty much enjoying the spa at the same time (proabably 6), without someone having to be way out of the water on the cold seat.
I liked the idea of the 8 foot jets compared to the 4 on the j-365, but after wet testing found the j-365 foot jets to have a little more force.
With regards to room, I really did not see the j-365 being smaller - especially in the wet test. As I said the j-365 seats are lower in the water in general - therefore it felt roomier than the Optima.
Just thought I'd share my experience. We pretty much planned on going for the Optima, but the wet test changed our mind.
cheers
Rich
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If your not in a real hurry I would wait to look at the 07s also like I was saying in my mixed up PMs wait till you can check out the J-465 also see how the 300 series looks with the S/steel escutions and added center jet on the J-365 is the same jet on the J-470
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If your not in a real hurry I would wait to look at the 07s also like I was saying in my mixed up PMs wait till you can check out the J-465 also see how the 300 series looks with the S/steel escutions and added center jet on the J-365 is the same jet on the J-470
JJ, thanks again for the info. I tried to reply to your PM, however, it isn't working for some reason? Do you know what the price will be for the new 465?
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Just guessing and depending on areas prolly around 8000.00 I have not seen any pricing from Jacuzzi or our rep yet on the cost. It will most likely be between the 365 and the 470 since the 375 and the 385 are going away.