Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: still sore on December 10, 2006, 10:58:10 pm
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Probably a little late to be asking this. My D1 california is scheduled to be delivered first thing tomorrow morning. Obviously, I'd like to be soaking ASAP. I thought I read somewhere the tub should be filled only with cold water. Reviewing the owners manual it is not specified. So, can I fill the tub with a mix of warm and cold tap water? I know my water heater won't keep it hot for to long but a little has to be better than nothing. I live in upstate NY and don't expect it to get much above freezing tomorrow. Any thoughts?
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A mix should be ok. Start with the cold, maybe half the tub.
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I thought about that too but was too lazy to hook onto my hot water. As it turns out, right from the tap the tub measured 61 degrees, and was hot at 102 degrees about nine hours later ( was probably hot earlier than that, but that's when I got home from work). If you fill it in the morning it should be hot by afternoon...
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I thought about that as well but most water heaters are behind the water softener. If you have a softener, Im told you should bypass the softener (water heater water) as the hot tub requires some of the minerals naturally occuring in water.
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Probably a little late to be asking this. My D1 california is scheduled to be delivered first thing tomorrow morning. Obviously, I'd like to be soaking ASAP. I thought I read somewhere the tub should be filled only with cold water. Reviewing the owners manual it is not specified. So, can I fill the tub with a mix of warm and cold tap water? I know my water heater won't keep it hot for to long but a little has to be better than nothing. I live in upstate NY and don't expect it to get much above freezing tomorrow. Any thoughts?
Still sore, congratulations on the new spa!
Filling it with warm water from the tap is clever and will not cause any problems. I would think it might save you an hour or so. My spa took aproximately 6 hrs to heat from 64 to 100. Hope everything goes well and keep us posted. :)
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If you have a softener, Im told you should bypass the softener (water heater water) as the hot tub requires some of the minerals naturally occuring in water.
You are correct sir. 8-)
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Probably a little late to be asking this. My D1 california is scheduled to be delivered first thing tomorrow morning. Obviously, I'd like to be soaking ASAP. I thought I read somewhere the tub should be filled only with cold water. Reviewing the owners manual it is not specified. So, can I fill the tub with a mix of warm and cold tap water? I know my water heater won't keep it hot for to long but a little has to be better than nothing. I live in upstate NY and don't expect it to get much above freezing tomorrow. Any thoughts?
What, a 50 gallon hot water heater in 300-400 gallons of water. It may raise it a degree or two but not much. And you would have to wait for quit a while to get another batch, might as well keep filling and let the tub heater do it.
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Tman122 nailed it.
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the part that sucks, however, is WAITING!!!!!!!! Our water came out at about 51 degrees, and that was BEFORE it got cold!
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For the same reason you are not supposed to use hot water to fill you Kettle or Coffee maker, there are nasties in the hot water tank that can get in your tub. This is what I have been told, I have been wrong before.
Tileman your always right and you say it's ok so I guess I must be wrong then
Ray
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I think this topic came up a couple years ago when I first joined. If I remember correctly, there was a concern about the sediment from a water heater when it is drained all the way. I may be wrong though.
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Found an article..one of many
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1413847
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I thought I would do this when I got my tub as well. I asked the dealer, and his response was NO. His reasoning was because adding hot water to the tub will cause a very sudden increase in temperature to the shell, which could potentially weaken it by rapidly expanding.
The only thing I see wrong with this is that putting cold water in a tub that has beed draining in the sun would be just as damaging, so what is the difference?
BTW, 50 gallons of water at 140 degrees to 300 gallons of water at 50-60 degrees is going to make a pretty large impact on starting temperature. You would see about a 10-12 degree increase. Furthermore, my shower kicks out about 4 gallons per minute, and I can take a shower at 104 degrees for well over 45 minutes and still have hot water. That means that if I filled the tub at 4 gallons per minute, I could fill over half at full temp water, probably more.
Now, the flip side is that first off, I would have to fill from the kitchen sink, which is maybe 3 gallons per minute tops. If I did pure hot water from tap and a cold water from outside faucet, it might work, but I would be worried about having 2 hoses almost 100 degrees apart hitting different parts of the tub at the same time.
Second, my tub has a 6000 watt heater, and from the 50ish degree water from my tap, I am up to 103 in 5-6 hours. The first time I filled the tub, it was full at 5pm and I soaked at 10:00, the tub was around 100 degrees. The second time, I got finished filling at about 6 pm and at 11 it was around 100, and it was 40 degrees outside. There really was no need to worry about adding hot water.
Personally I wouldnt put hot water in.. if anything just because of the unlikely potential to cause damage to the shell or fittings.. sudden expansion or contraction of a PVC joint where it meets the shell may not break the seal, but it cant be good. Also, keep in mind that the whole hot tubbing experience is for relaxing.. you cant rush a good relaxation session. If you get the tub installed by noon, you will be able to soak that night most likely.
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For the same reason you are not supposed to use hot water to fill you Kettle or Coffee maker, there are nasties in the hot water tank that can get in your tub. This is what I have been told, I have been wrong before.
Tileman your always right and you say it's ok so I guess I must be wrong then
Ray
Uh-oh....I'm not supposed to use hot tap water to fill the coffee maker???? :o
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Using the drain valve on the water heater isn't a good idea for anyting excpet draining the tank- the sediment on the bottom of the tank will follow the water right out.
I for sure wouln't use that method to fill a spa.
There shouldn't be any "nasties" in your water heater tank- assuming by nasties you mean bacteria. The heat in the tank should keep them from forming.
I don't think drinking water from your water heater in small amounts would be necessarily bad, but in our house all the water from the water heater is soft, and I don't like drinking softened water or using it in food. I have the cold water tap on our kitchen set to deliver unsoftened water, so I use that for cooking and drinking.
The water from our water heater is used for laundry and bathing, etc...
Why use hot water for your coffee maker when the coffee maker heats the water?
Just curious.
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Why use hot water for your coffee maker when the coffee maker heats the water?
Just curious.
Why use hot water for your hottub when the hottub heats the water? same question different appliance.
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Tileman, I'm curious: what was your source of information for saying that it was ok to use hot water? I ask because it has never been declared as ok before, and this topic has come up here at least 3-4 times in the last year.
As for your coffee maker, I have been guilty of using *warm* water a few times, but it is not a good idea as others have already said. Actually, a lot of coffee and tea manufacturers also say to use "fresh cold water" to brew as the flavor is supposedly better. I'd rather drink tea or coffee made from "fresh" tap water than from water that has been sitting in my water heater for a long time.
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Why use hot water for your coffee maker when the coffee maker heats the water?
Just curious.
Because the cold water isn't softened....and it's HARD and nasty (and not in a good way). Our last coffee maker made it roughly a year with only having brewed about 3 pots per week on average before it keeled over.
Of course, I COULD use hard water and then de-mineralize the coffee maker (if there is such a thing?) and it would last longer...
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I think there may be products out there to "de-mineralize" your coffe maker, but if what you're doing is working for you, I wouldn't bother with it.
You must have some pretty bad water then, if you hot tap is good by comparison.
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Brewman, I took pics of what the tub looked like when I filled it with unsoftened water....remember the pearly white shell that had been filled with what looked like tea? Oh yeah, our water's harsh...but it cleans up nicely.
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Now that you mention it, I do remember that.
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Recently I spoke with someone at one of the acrylic suppliers and different engineers for the companies we sell and a couple repair guys. on this issue but mainly on a hot water on demand system(which there is no tank and you basically have unlimited hot water.) The responses I recieved were if your not filling over 100 there should be no problems. Most of my newest customers have these systems and it sure make life easier when you dont have to wait and its -20 outside.
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Recently I spoke with someone at one of the acrylic suppliers and different engineers for the companies we sell and a couple repair guys. on this issue but mainly on a hot water on demand system(which there is no tank and you basically have unlimited hot water.) The responses I recieved were if your not filling over 100 there should be no problems. Most of my newest customers have these systems and it sure make life easier when you dont have to wait and its -20 outside.
Question of the day.........
Does anyone know why they use hot water in commercial ice making mahines?
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http://tafkac.org/science/hot_water_freezes_faster.html
This might shed a little light
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Because the cold water isn't softened....and it's HARD and nasty (and not in a good way). Our last coffee maker made it roughly a year with only having brewed about 3 pots per week on average before it keeled over.
Of course, I COULD use hard water and then de-mineralize the coffee maker (if there is such a thing?) and it would last longer...
I dont have a cure for the nasty part, but for hard water you can run a 50/50 solution of vinegar and water though the machine, followed by 100% water to rinse it out. It is not a perfect solution, but it does help prevent built up and staining.
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so the lines dont freeze warm water in the lines prevent freezing. Just a guess, but I think a good one. or not.
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Because hot water freezes faster than cold water?
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I'm not saying that it does or that it does not. It's just a guess.
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Hot water freezes faster than cold water because the molecules are further apart. At least that's what I think I remember from Chemistry class. It may also have to do with the speed of the molecules too - hot water has faster molecules (again, I think).
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Question of the day.........
Does anyone know why they use hot water in commercial ice making mahines?
Why actually, yes I do ;) Using hot water for making ice will greatly reduce, if not eliminate any bubbles in the ice.
Hot water does NOT freeze faster, realistically. Though there are some instances where it may. Consider 2 containers side by side, one with cold water and one with hot water. The one with hot water, if the surface area is quite large, may have significantly more evaporation, so that in the end there is much less water to freeze. Consider the 2 containers in an old fassion non frost free freezer. The hot container may melt it's way into the ice in the freezer thereby having much more surface area in contact with the ice and this could cause it to freeze faster.
For more, look up "Mpemba effect"
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hot water has faster molecules (again, I think).
I'm pretty sure that's what I learned in chemistry, too....or one of those science-type classes I took. I believe it was pretty much "the faster the molecules in an object are moving, the warmer the object "(see: hot water vs cold water)...then again, those classes WERE 15....er....4 or 5 years ago. ::)
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Recently I spoke with someone at one of the acrylic suppliers and different engineers for the companies we sell and a couple repair guys. on this issue but mainly on a hot water on demand system(which there is no tank and you basically have unlimited hot water.) The responses I recieved were if your not filling over 100 there should be no problems. Most of my newest customers have these systems and it sure make life easier when you dont have to wait and its -20 outside.
Question of the day.........
Does anyone know why they use hot water in commercial ice making mahines?
Good Job Doc!!!
I put a glass of cold water and a glass of hot water outside a few years back at -20 F. There was very little noticab;e difference in freeze time. However there was a big difference in the clearity of the ice.
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The hot water being used to make clear ice cubes makes as much sense as anything.
But it's also possible to make clear ice with cold water. In college I worked at a liquor store and we sold ice that we made on premise. The ice machine was fed with cold water and the ice was crystal clear, so there must be different methods, some which work with cold water.
Wonder if Mythbusters has done the "which freezes faster, hot or cold water" experiment? I don't recall ever seeing that on their show.