Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: knightcap on November 07, 2006, 11:47:36 pm

Title: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: knightcap on November 07, 2006, 11:47:36 pm
newbie here, first post.  I've read and learned a lot here, thanks!  But I have a question I have not seen addressed anywhere.  I have read a lot about the dichlor method of sanitizing (a little after each use) with a weekly shock, and about bromine floaters.  But why can you not use a chlorine floater?  For those using a tub only once or twice a week, but who prefer chlorine, it seems like a hassle to go out every night or two and treat the tub.  A floater with some chlorine tablets seems ideal (maybe remove it when in the tub.)  Is there an obvious reason why its okay to use bromine in a floater, but not chlorine?  Thanks!!
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: hottubdan on November 08, 2006, 12:18:07 am
Compressed chlorine is meant for pools; larger bodies of water.  Far to acidic to be an easy solution in a spa.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Brewman on November 08, 2006, 08:22:55 am
Chlorine tablets are trichlor, and are not advised for many spas.  Some may even deny warranty coverage if trichlor is found to cause any problems.
Read your manual to see if they say anything.  Mine says specifically not to use trichlor.
 Bromine is specifically meant for spas, so it's okay to use it in a floater, or in the built in bromine dispenser that some spas have.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: bosco0633 on November 08, 2006, 08:25:04 am
Hey brewman, how come the arctic line of chemicals uses trichlor chlorine????  I stay away from it.  where I live, no dealers carry dichlor, so it is bromine for now.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Rayman on November 08, 2006, 09:29:24 am
Beachcomber warranty is not void if you use Trichlor, I have a floater and the only thing I notice is I have to add extra Alk increaser (Baking soda) each week.  You will notice your TDS going up quicker because of the extra Alk increaser but I still get 4 months before a water change.  Everyone on here will tell you it is the worst thing you can do, make up your own mind and read your warranty.

Ray
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: windsurfdog on November 08, 2006, 10:02:28 am
Quote
For those using a tub only once or twice a week, but who prefer chlorine, it seems like a hassle to go out every night or two and treat the tub.
It would not be necessary to treat the tub every night or two at all.  If you know you are not going to soak for 3-5 days, just put in extra dichlor--maybe 3 tbsp. or so.  This would easily keep the tub in great shape for 3-5 days.  If you know you are going to use it no more than twice a week but you have no idea when the mood will strike, just put in a little more than you normally would and add some in a couple of days.  This really is simple and not difficult at all.  Also, you might want to add an ozonator and a mineral cartridge (N2) if you don't have these already.

As a confirmed dichlor user, I find that the perceived difficulty of a dichlor routine is blown WAY out of proportion.  Now, if I owned a tub that was in a rental unit, bromine would be my sanitizer of choice--and I wouldn't have to soak in it... 8-)
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Brewman on November 08, 2006, 10:27:03 am
Quote
Hey brewman, how come the arctic line of chemicals uses trichlor chlorine????  I stay away from it.  where I live, no dealers carry dichlor, so it is bromine for now.


I have no idea.  My Sundance manual warns not to use the stuff, so I don't either.
Warning is that trichlor can lead to extreme corrosion.  Maybe Arctic uses materials that are less prone to this corrosion?  
 I myself wonder why dichlor seems to be scare up in Canada.  

 I totally agree with WSD.  I've used Bauqa, bromine, and dichlor.  Overall, dichlor is by far the easiest to work with.  And it seems to impact my water balance less than bromine.  I was always having to add Ph and alk increasers with bromine.  

Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Rayman on November 08, 2006, 03:01:36 pm
Quote
Quote
Hey brewman, how come the arctic line of chemicals uses trichlor chlorine????  I stay away from it.  where I live, no dealers carry dichlor, so it is bromine for now.



 I myself wonder why dichlor seems to be scare up in Canada.  

 .  


I use Dichlor as well with a floater, Dichlor is sold in every dealer near me in the Toronto area.

Ray
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tileman on November 08, 2006, 03:57:57 pm
 If putting in a tsp of Dichlor per person after each soak takes too long than you must be one extremely busy individual and shouldn't even have time to use a hot tub. It doesn't get any easier than that. Plus, you don't get green water and the smell among other things when using bromine. How could anyone stand soaking in a chemical bath? :-?
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: lagator43 on November 08, 2006, 04:48:23 pm
Quote
If putting in a tsp of Dichlor per person after each soak takes too long than you must be one extremely busy individual and shouldn't even have time to use a hot tub. It doesn't get any easier than that. Plus, you don't get green water and the smell among other things when using bromine. How could anyone stand soaking in a chemical bath? :-?

Do you have a problem with green water???????
You dichlor people are so arrogant.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Rayman on November 08, 2006, 07:29:06 pm
Quote
If putting in a tsp of Dichlor per person after each soak takes too long than you must be one extremely busy individual and shouldn't even have time to use a hot tub. It doesn't get any easier than that. Plus, you don't get green water and the smell among other things when using bromine. How could anyone stand soaking in a chemical bath? :-?

The question was can you use a floater with Trichlor, taking shots at how busy/lazy a person may or maynot be was not the question.

Ray
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: LtDan on November 08, 2006, 08:15:05 pm
Quote
If putting in a tsp of Dichlor per person after each soak takes too long than you must be one extremely busy individual and shouldn't even have time to use a hot tub. It doesn't get any easier than that. Plus, you don't get green water and the smell among other things when using bromine. How could anyone stand soaking in a chemical bath? :-?

I like the ability to leave the tub (longest is two weeks) and come home to perfect water. I keep my chemical bath at 102 and stand it very well.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tileman on November 08, 2006, 08:26:48 pm
It's not arrogance when you can back it up. :)
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: lagator43 on November 08, 2006, 08:31:29 pm
Quote
It's not arrogance when you can back it up. :)

 Back what up?
Chlorine is actually harder on your skin than bromine.   ;D
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tileman on November 08, 2006, 08:55:31 pm
Quote
Quote
It's not arrogance when you can back it up. :)

 Back what up?
Chlorine is actually harder on your skin than bromine.   ;D

Hey, If you like bromine, fine. I like dichlor, so what.  It doesn't really matter. Whatever works for US.
He commented on the hassle of having to add dichlor every couple of days. So I posted that it is not a hassle in a way that was offensive to some bromine users. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings, I will keep my OPINIONS to myself from now on about this issue.
 As far as me saying it's not arrogance if you can back it up. My whole life I have been titled as cocky, arrogant, or whatever else you want to call it. I call it self confidence and it has gotten this 24 yr old pretty far in life. I'm part owner of a million dollar business that has been growing ever since I started w/ them. So what I'm trying to say is that my "arrogance" comes from me working my a$$ off my whole life to get what I wanted. I came from a very poor family growing up. I will do whatever it takes, so I will never have to live like that again.  Even if it means coming off as arrogant.

CHAD
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Repeat_Offender on November 08, 2006, 09:58:35 pm
Thank you for that self absorbed, though totally irrelevant and unsolicited monologue. Seeing as how you've owned your hot tub for like 10 days I know I'm not alone when I say we view your self confident OPINION as expertise. So, lighten up Francis, no one cares how old you are or how much money you make, or even which sanitizer you use (as long as it's not bromine).
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: lagator43 on November 08, 2006, 10:01:13 pm
Quote
Quote
Quote
It's not arrogance when you can back it up. :)

 Back what up?
Chlorine is actually harder on your skin than bromine.   ;D

Hey, If you like bromine, fine. I like dichlor, so what.  It doesn't really matter. Whatever works for US.
He commented on the hassle of having to add dichlor every couple of days. So I posted that it is not a hassle in a way that was offensive to some bromine users. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings, I will keep my OPINIONS to myself from now on about this issue.
 As far as me saying it's not arrogance if you can back it up. My whole life I have been titled as cocky, arrogant, or whatever else you want to call it. I call it self confidence and it has gotten this 24 yr old pretty far in life. I'm part owner of a million dollar business that has been growing ever since I started w/ them. So what I'm trying to say is that my "arrogance" comes from me working my a$$ off my whole life to get what I wanted. I came from a very poor family growing up. I will do whatever it takes, so I will never have to live like that again.  Even if it means coming off as arrogant.

CHAD

Ya sure, whatever you say  :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-?
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: knightcap on November 08, 2006, 10:26:34 pm
OP here.  No, I'm no more busy than any one else, and adding a tsp after a soak is no problem.  My original post was about going 3-5 days without soaking, and not wanting to deal with dichlor on the off days.  I guess what I was hoping was that there was a dichlor floater -- but it seems that any sort of slow release tablet form of chlorine is trichlor.  Is there any slow release, slow-disolving form of chlorine which is not too acidic and is okay for spa use?
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Brookenstein on November 08, 2006, 10:38:02 pm
OP,

Are you having problems with your water turning bad on you in those 3-5 days without use and without dichlor?  We haven't been using the tub as much lately either and my tub is still looking good.  If it is say Saturday morning and I realize we haven't used the tub since say Tuesday, I will add 1-2 TBS of dichlor to it just to be safe.  If it has only been 3 days, (and I think it could be another 3 days) I'll get in still and then when we get out I usually just double or tripple my normal dose.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: LtDan on November 08, 2006, 10:49:11 pm
 [/quote]

24 yr old        

my whole life

CHAD[/quote]



Wow.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tileman on November 09, 2006, 12:10:28 am
Quote

24 yr old        

my whole life

CHAD[/quote]



Wow.
[/quote]

Yeah some of us actually had to work full time before we graduated school.
I have worked atleast 30 hours a week since I was ten, smart a$$. Not to get things I wanted but things we needed.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tileman on November 09, 2006, 12:24:52 am
Quote
Thank you for that self absorbed, though totally irrelevant and unsolicited monologue.

I will admit that I'm self absorbed. That's what happens when you have to take care of yourself at such an early age.
Definition of irrelevant: having no bearing on or connection with the subject at issue.
So when someone calls you arrogant and you respond back about arrogance, that is called relevance.
Btw, who is Francis.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Repeat_Offender on November 09, 2006, 07:16:32 am
Tell us Francis, how relevant is your age or your supposed net worth to the question about a chlorine floater? If your arrogance prevents you from staying on point maybe you should keep your 24 year old fingers off that keyboard you struggled so mightily to afford. Silent thoughts are good too.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: LtDan on November 09, 2006, 07:26:39 am
Quote
Quote
Thank you for that self absorbed, though totally irrelevant and unsolicited monologue.

I will admit that I'm self absorbed. That's what happens when you have to take care of yourself at such an early age.
Definition of irrelevant: having no bearing on or connection with the subject at issue.
So when someone calls you arrogant and you respond back about arrogance, that is called relevance.
Btw, who is Francis.

"During the platoon's getting-acquainted session in the barracks:
Psycho: My name's Francis Sawyer.... but everyone calls me "Psycho." Any of you guys call me Francis... I'll kill ya! And I do not like anyone touching MY STUFF...so just keep ya meathooks off. If I see any one of ya in my stuff... I'll kill ya. Also, I don't want anyone touching ME! Any of you HOMOS touch me...I'll kill ya!
Sgt. Hulka: (unimpressed): Lighten up, Francis! We're all in this together. One of these men may save your life one of these days, you understand that?"

I bet he had to change his own diapers too. Makes a man tough, for sure!  ::)
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tileman on November 09, 2006, 07:39:20 am
Quote
Tell us Francis, how relevant is your age or your supposed net worth to the question about a chlorine floater? If your arrogance prevents you from staying on point maybe you should keep your 24 year old fingers off that keyboard you struggled so mightily to afford. Silent thoughts are good too.

Do I sense some JEALOUSY?
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Brewman on November 09, 2006, 07:45:39 am
Quote
lighten up Francis

 I love that line.  It's one of my favorite movie quotes!
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: lagator43 on November 09, 2006, 10:01:38 am
Quote
Quote

24 yr old        

my whole life

CHAD



Wow.
[/quote]

Yeah some of us actually had to work full time before we graduated school.
I have worked atleast 30 hours a week since I was ten, smart a$$. Not to get things I wanted but things we needed.[/quote]

Now this is getting stupid.  >:( I browse this forum for information about my spa, not to listen to someones sad tale of hardships.  Man you are self absorbed. I would bet that many individuals who post here have experienced hardships equal to or believe it or not, even worse than you.  No one is interested in you autobiography.
Stick to talking about your spa.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tileman on November 09, 2006, 10:42:51 am
Quote
Quote
Quote

24 yr old        

my whole life

CHAD



Wow.

Yeah some of us actually had to work full time before we graduated school.
I have worked atleast 30 hours a week since I was ten, smart a$$. Not to get things I wanted but things we needed.[/quote]

Now this is getting stupid.  >:( I browse this forum for information about my spa, not to listen to someones sad tale of hardships.  Man you are self absorbed. I would bet that many individuals who post here have experienced hardships equal to or believe it or not, even worse than you.  No one is interested in you autobiography.
Stick to talking about your spa.
[/quote]

If I can remember correctly, wasn't it YOU  who started all this.
Don't call people names and I'LL try to stick to talking about my spa.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: lagator43 on November 09, 2006, 11:20:11 am
Hey  I did not summarize  my financial status, childhood environment, and personal traits to everyone viewing this forum.  Do not deflect the blame on me.  Your the one who gave the autobiograhy to everyone.  

By the way, my comment about arrogance for people who use chlorine was sarcastic.   Relax.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: anne on November 09, 2006, 11:40:49 am
 ;) So, Knightcap- everything clear now?

Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tileman on November 09, 2006, 11:45:36 am
Quote
Hey  I did not summarize  my financial status, childhood environment, and personal traits to everyone viewing this forum.  Do not deflect the blame on me.  Your the one who gave the autobiograhy to everyone.  

By the way, my comment about arrogance for people who use chlorine was sarcastic.   Relax.

I give up.
I'm going to my room now, so I can cry about what a horrible childhood I had :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Repeat_Offender on November 09, 2006, 12:20:18 pm
Just one question before you leave, how is it that a hard working misunderstood half-millionaire like yourself gets to spend so much time online? Isn't there some bathroom floor that needs grouting?
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tileman on November 09, 2006, 12:34:40 pm
You must not have read my previous post. So I'll tell you again! Give it up. No more questions are to be asked. :-X We need to obey the rules of this forum and talk about spas. HAVE A NICE DAY.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: knightcap on November 09, 2006, 01:16:49 pm
To reply to a couple of earlier questions:  I have not had problems or cloudy water YET, since my hot tub hasn't been delivered yet.  I asked the question and have been reading this forum to get ready for when it gets here -- I hope within the next month.  We're putting in a pool, a new deck, landscaping, concrete work, etc. and part of this project is a hot tub.  But we've got four children, and I don't think our current schedules will give us the luxury of nightly soaks -- but I can't wait for the day when it does!  Thanks again for your help.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tony on November 09, 2006, 01:35:22 pm
If you are concerned about adding chorine on the days you don't soak, I would suggest adding a mineral cartridge such as Nature2 or a Frog.  One of (or maybe the most important) advantage of sanitizing with chlorine after use is the fact that you don't sit in a chemical bath.  If you are a daily soaker, minerals most likely aren't going to do a lot for you, but if you are a weekend soaker or two to three time a week, they will hold you for those days you don't use it.  A mineral cartridge will usually hold the water fine for days when no outside bacteria from bathers enters the water.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: LtDan on November 09, 2006, 02:18:08 pm
I've been using bromine for some time now, switched from chlorine after losing control of my water quality after going camping a few times. I've not noticed any "chemical bath" qualities with the water. Having some level of sanitizer in the water doesn't seem like a terrible idea, especially when several people are using the tub at the same time. I don't understand why some are so critical of using bromine, it has made my hot tub experience easier and more enjoyable.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tony on November 09, 2006, 02:35:22 pm
Quote
I've been using bromine for some time now, switched from chlorine after losing control of my water quality after going camping a few times. I've not noticed any "chemical bath" qualities with the water. Having some level of sanitizer in the water doesn't seem like a terrible idea, especially when several people are using the tub at the same time. I don't understand why some are so critical of using bromine, it has made my hot tub experience easier and more enjoyable.

Its just that some of us prefer to soak in no chems.  It is just a preference.  Bromine works for many and biguanides work for many.  With both systems you will be sitting in water with a residual amount of sanitizer (thus the word chems).  The point is there is an option where you do not have to do this.

BTW, sitting in a spa with trichlor tabs in a floater would also be sitting in chems.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: anne on November 10, 2006, 02:32:30 am
Not trying to fuel the fire, just giving my perspective: I noticed that when wet testing and when using a couple of friends' tubs that bromine made my skin itch. Perhaps it was not dialed in well, but that along with my research here made me go to chlorine. Seems that bromine is often considered to be less irritating, but I'm an example of how there are no rules to that sort of thing.

I'm a bit surprised at the controversy that this little issue stirs up, and that anyone would care who likes which chems. If we dont all own and enjoy the same brand and model of tub, why the heck would we all agree about chemicals?  ;)  
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Brewman on November 10, 2006, 07:58:04 am
 That's why having a choice is a good thing.  It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's whatever works for you.  I've gone thru 3 chemical routines and I've settled on dichlor because it works well for us.  That doesn't make the other ones bad.
 I didn't like Baqua because it was overpriced, only available at specific dealers, and we couldn't get it to work.  After a couple weeks, the water got really "fizzy" and made us cough.   That might just have been us or our water.
 Onto the next phase:
 Bromine was next, and it was less expensive, but tended to stain some plastic in our spa a light tan color.  Plus the combination of Bromine and MPS was making me have to add a lot of Ph and alk increasers.  And I could never get the readings to stabilize- seemed I was always chasing.  One day no bromine reading at all, next day it was way too high.  Gave up after about a year.  
 Dichlor is what we use now.  We use Vermonters method, to us it makes sense and works fine.  I am adding way less chemicals to adjust Ph.  
 I am of the OPINION that the less goop dumped into the water, the better.  
  That doesn't make people using bromine, Baqua, Ozone, and all the rest of the alternatives wrong.  
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: lagator43 on November 10, 2006, 11:32:50 am
Quote
Not trying to fuel the fire, just giving my perspective: I noticed that when wet testing and when using a couple of friends' tubs that bromine made my skin itch. Perhaps it was not dialed in well, but that along with my research here made me go to chlorine. Seems that bromine is often considered to be less irritating, but I'm an example of how there are no rules to that sort of thing.

I'm a bit surprised at the controversy that this little issue stirs up, and that anyone would care who likes which chems. If we dont all own and enjoy the same brand and model of tub, why the heck would we all agree about chemicals?  ;)  

Anne, sometimes you are way too reasonable for this forum.  Once again you take an issue and draw a very logical conclusion. Good job. ;)
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: anne on November 10, 2006, 01:09:49 pm
I've been reasonable and logical my whole life......my poor parents. ;) Thanks.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: George on November 10, 2006, 03:50:30 pm
Most of the time skin itch and rash problems are from improper levels of chemicals, not from the type of chemicals used.

Clorine has its advantages and disadvantages. FC and CC can be a problem for some folks. Clorine bonds with Metals and Amonia and is not effective when bonded, that is where we get the different types of clorine, the effective and the ineffective types. Oxidizing usually takes care of that and frees up some of that CC.

Bromine has its advantages and disadvantages.  With Bromine you have less maintance, you can leave the tub for a week unattended and have perfectly clean water when you return. Some folks have a hard time gettting the levels set right on floaters and some have trouble with ph, others don't.  

Using N2 or Ozone with your sanatizer allows you to use much lower levels of sanatizer.

The method of adding dichlor after a soak works well for tubs that are used a lot and not as well when the tub is not used much.

You just need to choose what is right for you, neither is best for everyone.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Vinny on November 10, 2006, 04:36:46 pm
Here's a question for the knowledgable.

If it's not OK to use trichlor (I do use dichlor) because of the low PH, doesn't bromine have a low PH?

If they are about the same, say trichlor has a PH of 3 and bromine has a PH of 4, what gives?  I've read that trichlor tablets dissolve quicker than bromine - OK, 1 reason but pool water can reach 92 or 96º in the summer - mine did and there's not much temp difference there to 102º. There are tub manufacturers out there that are OK with trichlor use - Emerald Spa comes to mind.

Please explain a little more in detail.

Thanks!
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: IDW on November 10, 2006, 08:07:47 pm
There is nothing wrong with using chlorine pucks in a spa. So what if you need to adjust Ph once a week.
Also there are many different types of trichlor pucks. fast dissolving(cheap) and slow dissolving (expensive)

HTH even makes  a unstabilized calcium puck.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Vinny on November 10, 2006, 09:09:03 pm
Quote
There is nothing wrong with using chlorine pucks in a spa. So what if you need to adjust Ph once a week.
Also there are many different types of trichlor pucks. fast dissolving(cheap) and slow dissolving (expensive)

HTH even makes  a unstabilized calcium puck.

Is your response from knowledge (pool/spa dealer, chem supplier or long time pool/spa owner)? I use trichlor in my pool and it seems with an in line chlorinator my pucks last forever and these are the only ones I know about. I personally don't plan on using a floater but I read all the time about trichlor's PH and it's bad to use, heck I even tell people it's bad to use.

But the more I think about it I keep wondering how bad can it really be! If it keeps a residue of 2-3 PPM in a tub, you'll never have to worry about it. Yes there's the stabilizer problem but so is it in dichlor use.MAybe ther needs to be a new trend ...

Inquiring minds want to know! :)

HTH is changing their formulas in their chlorine. In Walmart, I saw their "spa chlorine" and it was cal hypo. They are also using a combination formula in their pucks, it's no longer stickly trichlor. As for the cal hypo pucks, my neighbor used them a few years back, I guess it's OK as long as the calcium level is OK. My technique for the pool is trichlor, cal hypo and bleach and I use whatever combination to make sure my levels stay OK.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: IDW on November 10, 2006, 10:04:51 pm
Chlorine is chlorine. It does not mater what you use ,when chlorine is added to water, a reaction occurs creting hypochlorous acid. It does not matter  what kind it is it all turns into the same thing when added to water.
Sodium,calcium,lithium,di, tri, gas. As long as you know each ones advantages and disadvantages they are all good.

Sodium  High ph, low shelf life
Calcium  dissolves like crap and is explosive
Lithium  High ph ,no stabilizer, disolves good
Diclor     Ph neutral,disolves good, stabilized
Trichlor  Low ph, disolves good, stabilized
Gas        Just dangerous

Personally I do not like diclor or trichlor in spas because most people do not manage stabilizers properly. High levels can make Alk test higher than it is and I have heard some states are saying high levels of stabilzer can allow pathogens to live to long before being killed.

Use what ever works best for you
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tileman on November 11, 2006, 07:53:08 am
Quote
There is nothing wrong with using chlorine pucks in a spa. So what if you need to adjust Ph once a week.
Also there are many different types of trichlor pucks. fast dissolving(cheap) and slow dissolving (expensive)

HTH even makes  a unstabilized calcium puck.

Yes there is, when your dealer voids your warranty because of it's use. I think that qualifies.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tileman on November 11, 2006, 08:09:27 am
Quote
Chlorine is chlorine. It does not mater what you use ,when chlorine is added to water, a reaction occurs creting hypochlorous acid. It does not matter  what kind it is it all turns into the same thing when added to water.
Sodium,calcium,lithium,di, tri, gas. As long as you know each ones advantages and disadvantages they are all good.

Sodium  High ph, low shelf life
Calcium  dissolves like crap and is explosive
Lithium  High ph ,no stabilizer, disolves good
Diclor     Ph neutral,disolves good, stabilized
Trichlor  Low ph, disolves good, stabilized
Gas        Just dangerous

Personally I do not like diclor or trichlor in spas because most people do not manage stabilizers properly. High levels can make Alk test higher than it is and I have heard some states are saying high levels of stabilzer can allow pathogens to live to long before being killed.

Use what ever works best for you


IDW you're funny. How can you say chlorine is chlorine when you clearly just illustrated the many differences in each one?
Thanks for your opinion on not liking dichlor or trichlor in spas even though your reasonings seem to be about inexperienced spa owners. It doesn't take a scientist to keep your water perfectly balanced. I know this first hand because I'm not one and it only took me two days to get it like that once my Taylor k-2005 arrived.

I'll stick to what the doctor prescibed for me. :)

Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tony on November 11, 2006, 10:14:11 am
Trichlor and bromine tabs are very different in how they work, especially in a spa's hot water.  Trichlor is made for the cooler water of pools.  Warm water tends to make it caustic to skin.  Chlorine is very unstable and is introduced to water easily.

Bromine is very stable.  It is difficult to get into water and difficult to wash off of skin.  Bromine is added to a spa in the form of bromide ions.  It needs to be activated by an oxidizer to form hypobromous acid which is the sanitizing form of bromine.  When hypobromous acid reacts with contaminates, it reverts back to bromide ions.  Addition of an oxidizer starts the process over again, though not 100%.  Believe it or not there is no way to test that measures bromide ions so you never know what your bromide ion level is.  A bromine spa becomes effective when there is 15 ppm or more of bromide ions, thus the need for a bromine bank at startup if you use tabs.

So trichlor tabs dissolve and immediately sanitize while the bromine in bromine tabs dissolves and uses the chlorine in the tabs to convert it to a sanitizing form.  The point is the instability of a trichlor tab, especially in small body of warm water can be more damaging and most likely why most  manufacturers prohibit the use of  them in their spas.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Brewman on November 11, 2006, 10:55:39 am
Chopped from my Sundance owners manual:

IMPORTANT: Do not use chlorine tablets (Trichlor) in your hot tub. This
chemical can have an extremely corrosive effect on certain materials in
the hot tub. Damage caused by use of this chemical, or improper use of
any chemicals, is not covered under the hot tub's warranty.


This is all I need to not use the stuff in my spa.


Also, Doc has a very convincing article on his website about the dangers of using trichlor in hot tubs.  


Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Vinny on November 12, 2006, 03:33:59 pm
Quote
Trichlor and bromine tabs are very different in how they work, especially in a spa's hot water.  Trichlor is made for the cooler water of pools.  Warm water tends to make it caustic to skin.  Chlorine is very unstable and is introduced to water easily.

Bromine is very stable.  It is difficult to get into water and difficult to wash off of skin.  Bromine is added to a spa in the form of bromide ions.  It needs to be activated by an oxidizer to form hypobromous acid which is the sanitizing form of bromine.  When hypobromous acid reacts with contaminates, it reverts back to bromide ions.  Addition of an oxidizer starts the process over again, though not 100%.  Believe it or not there is no way to test that measures bromide ions so you never know what your bromide ion level is.  A bromine spa becomes effective when there is 15 ppm or more of bromide ions, thus the need for a bromine bank at startup if you use tabs.

So trichlor tabs dissolve and immediately sanitize while the bromine in bromine tabs dissolves and uses the chlorine in the tabs to convert it to a sanitizing form.  The point is the instability of a trichlor tab, especially in small body of warm water can be more damaging and most likely why most  manufacturers prohibit the use of  them in their spas.

Thanks for the info but the difference between spa water and pool water may only be 6º during the summer, at what point temp wise does trichlor becaome caustic. I don't understand the "cool" water vs "warm" water, I have seen my pool at 94 or 96º  during the summer heat and my tub was at 102º - is it that a floating feeder can't maintain a constant amount of trichlor. My in line pool feeder keeps chlorine for a while. I do understand that chlorine is more powerful than bromine. I would think a constant 1 PPM of chlorine is less harmful to the tub than 3 or 5 PPM and 24 hours late another 3 or 5 PPM ...

I've read that combined bromine is as active as free bromine. If that's the case then why the need to reactivate the bromine? Other than if it stinks like combined chlorine.

When I saw that Emerald OK's trichlor in their tub, I e-mailed them to find out if it was a misprint and they said it wasn't. Is this a case of mis information by an industry ... just wondering out loud.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: In Canada eh on November 12, 2006, 09:31:34 pm
Quote

Thanks for the info but the difference between spa water and pool water may only be 6º during the summer, at what point temp wise does trichlor becaome caustic. I don't understand the "cool" water vs "warm" water, I have seen my pool at 94 or 96º  during the summer heat and my tub was at 102º - is it that a floating feeder can't maintain a constant amount of trichlor. My in line pool feeder keeps chlorine for a while. I do understand that chlorine is more powerful than bromine. I would think a constant 1 PPM of chlorine is less harmful to the tub than 3 or 5 PPM and 24 hours late another 3 or 5 PPM ...

When I saw that Emerald OK's trichlor in their tub, I e-mailed them to find out if it was a misprint and they said it wasn't. Is this a case of mis information by an industry ... just wondering out loud.



Vinny

    I agree with your above quote and have been watching this post with interest.  I also cannot understand the difference between the two other than the pH issue.  I have friends that have a Elite (Maxx) tub that is OK to use trichlor in.  Strangely, even though Bullfrog says otherwise our dealer recomended trichlor at the time we bought our tub.  I wish Vermonter or Doc could chime in on this and possibly shed some light
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Brewman on November 13, 2006, 07:54:31 am
Instead of waiting for Doc to chime in, why not go to his website and read the articles that are there concerning the use of trichlor in spas?
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: In Canada eh on November 13, 2006, 08:50:41 am
Brewman,

   I have read the info on Doc's site about chlorine (dichlor and trichlor).  In Doc's article it says that trichlor is lower in pH and is made for the cooler water of a pool.  Like Vinny said in his post I have seen our pool water rise as high as 94 to 96 degrees and thats less then a 10 degree difference from the tub.  I use dichlor,MPS,pH and alkalinity adjustments and ozone, the thing is I am constantly having to lower my pH and raise my alkalinity.  Why not switch to the convienience of a floater and adjust pH up instead


Just looking for someone with more knowledge on the subject to shed some light on it
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tony on November 13, 2006, 09:11:05 am
Quote
Quote

Thanks for the info but the difference between spa water and pool water may only be 6º during the summer, at what point temp wise does trichlor becaome caustic. I don't understand the "cool" water vs "warm" water, I have seen my pool at 94 or 96º  during the summer heat and my tub was at 102º - is it that a floating feeder can't maintain a constant amount of trichlor. My in line pool feeder keeps chlorine for a while. I do understand that chlorine is more powerful than bromine. I would think a constant 1 PPM of chlorine is less harmful to the tub than 3 or 5 PPM and 24 hours late another 3 or 5 PPM ...

I've read that combined bromine is as active as free bromine. If that's the case then why the need to reactivate the bromine? Other than if it stinks like combined chlorine.

When I saw that Emerald OK's trichlor in their tub, I e-mailed them to find out if it was a misprint and they said it wasn't. Is this a case of mis information by an industry ... just wondering out loud.

In a spa 104 is much different than 102 just as 102 is much different than 100.  Six degrees can be a lot in a small tub.  I imagine the very low pH and the fact that at spa temp waters trichlor dissolves much quicker is the reason most manufacturers prohibit the use of trichlor.  Emerald has always allowed trichlor.  It seems the Canadian manufacturers allow it also (Beachcomber/Arctic).  Almost every other manufacturer is going to void your warranty for trichlor use.  Then again, they don't allow the use of liquid chlorine either, but that is also used in a pool.

Combined bromine is still available to sanitize, but not as effective as active bromine.  With tabs, the chlorine is constantly activating the used bromine.  With a two part bromine system, you need to add non chlorine shock or chlorine to reactivate.  
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Vinny on November 13, 2006, 07:11:29 pm
I'm not talking about voiding the warranty. I've read Doc's page and understand that trichlor may disolve faster in warmer waters ... I'm certainly not saying to use trichlor but if 2 or 3 manufacturers say it's OK and basically they use the same components to make tubs as the other ones at what point do we need to question the non use of trichlor. If it was a hard fact that trichlor is not good for both the tub and people, why would those 3 allow you to use it? Beachcomber, Arctic and Emerald are mainstream tubs, not some off the wall brands. Almost all agree not to enter a pool or tub with chlorine over 5 (just putting a figure) PPM.

I seem to remember there was a time that Baqua was a problem for spa manufacturers and now it seems that they are mostly embrasing it. The tub manufacturers would put disclamers on the tub if Baqua or it's equivilents were used. Also, there are people who believe that Sodium Bicard from pool chem manufacturer is better than Baking soda from the grocery store.

I won't be experimenting on my tub with this issue :) ... I'm just saying maybe it's time to possibly rethink trichlor. The only negatives that it states in the Taylor book is it's low PH and it's corrosiveness but lists that for bromine as well (interesting though that it gives a little tid bit of info that proper water maintenance will catch this problem when under bromine, nothing under trichlor) and trichlor is more combustionable but I have to say 1000's of people use it safely in their pool.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Vinny on November 13, 2006, 09:21:53 pm
Interesting ... I was trying to see if any info on this subject was on the web and came across this:

     http://www.hotspring.com/Hot_Tub_Customers/spa_care.html

apparently Hot Springs doesn't recommend bromine pucks as well, just granular bromine.

I guess we'll all stick with what we're using!
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: Brewman on November 14, 2006, 07:46:46 am
That's what's most important in the end.  
 I suspect this thread is heading to the dead horse graveyard pretty soon, anyway.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tony on November 14, 2006, 10:09:25 am
Quote
Interesting ... I was trying to see if any info on this subject was on the web and came across this:

     http://www.hotspring.com/Hot_Tub_Customers/spa_care.html

apparently Hot Springs doesn't recommend bromine pucks as well, just granular bromine.

I guess we'll all stick with what we're using!

That is interesting.  Notice they only recommend biguanides for spas 1998 on up.  New Plastics!
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: PotomacG on November 14, 2006, 10:24:05 am
Quote
I've been using bromine for some time now, switched from chlorine after losing control of my water quality after going camping a few times. I've not noticed any "chemical bath" qualities with the water. Having some level of sanitizer in the water doesn't seem like a terrible idea, especially when several people are using the tub at the same time. I don't understand why some are so critical of using bromine, it has made my hot tub experience easier and more enjoyable.

^^^^  ;)

Me too.  I was only planning on using bromine during the winter months but I might just stick with it year round.  

People fear what they don't know.
Title: Re: floating chlorinator - why not?
Post by: tony on November 14, 2006, 10:31:47 am
No fears, just preferences.  If I were to use bromine in a floater, I would use a Frog, keep the bromine levels at .5 and toss a tiny bit of dichlor in after use.