Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: bohms on October 14, 2006, 07:41:05 pm
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Ok, we've been hitting all of the dealerships the past few days and we may look at a few more. We went to Artesian tonight and fell in love with the Piper Glen. Does anyone have any input on this model/brand? We still have the Sundance Optima on our minds as well. It just seems like we would get more for our money with the Piper Glen. We were quoted $9600 for the Piper Glen and that includes, hydralic lift, cover, and steps (not including tax, stereo or LED lights). The Sundance Optima we were quoted a little over 11K but he said that they were having a sale in a couple of weeks and that we could get them down on the price (not sure how much). That includes the regular lift, cover and steps (not including tax or stereo). I was just wondering what everyone thought of these two models. Also, do these stereos hold up???
Thanks.
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I wet tested the Piper Glen and really liked it. Great power and can't say enough about its individual pumps for each seat. Your price qoute seems good. Thats a little cheaper then my dealers $10,500, but that was fully loaded. If I had a family, more parties, or the money I would have purchased. Just too much spa fo me. :)
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bohms, have you tested Hot Spring? If so, how do you rate them compared to the Piper Glen?
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Just got out of my Piper Glen! AHHHHHH!!!!!!!! We've only had it since June and we're still remarking several times a week "This was a GREAT investment!" and "Boy, do I LOVE this tub!"
The jets are nice and strong and we love the individual controls. The jets hit lots of the muscle groups.
We absolutely LOVE it!
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Does anyone have a Piper Glen with a taupe cabinet? If so, would you please post some pics. Thanks!
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You get what you pay for. $11,000 is a little high for an Optima. Negotiate. Go with the Sundance.
Bring on the comments about how I'm biased. I am. There are other that I will give props too(when deserved).
Artesian is a O.K. built tub. Their goal sems to be to copy Sundance(and others) shells with generic parts and low-ball the price.
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Taupe cabinet, with oyster opal(desert horizon) shell.
bohms, I think you've proven yourself smart enough not to listen to hymbaw's comment, so that's all I'm going to say about that.
(http://home.comcast.net/~chris.leuci/IMG_1854.JPG)
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We were quoted $9600 for the Piper Glen and that includes, hydralic lift, cover, and steps (not including tax, stereo or LED lights). The Sundance Optima we were quoted a little over 11K but he said that they were having a sale in a couple of weeks and that we could get them down on the price (not sure how much).
Local Sundance dealer offered us the price of $8294 (just had a spa show sale and extened the sale price to us) for the Optima. We purchased (haven't received it yet) the piper glen for $10600 total, with LED lights, delivered and set-up. The price was never a consideration in selecting the spa we wanted. When all the spas we were considering were in the range of $8-$11k a couple of thousand either way didn't seem that important. The overall consideration was purchasing a spa that we would be happy with now and later.
We saw both the Red and Taupe cabinets. The Taupe is more light brown looking to us. It appears more grayish on the Artesian website. We wanted gray so we got the Taupe.
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SpaMorph - we looked at Hot Springs but didn't wet test it. We really want a tub that has 4 corner seats and the foot jet dome so that's why I think we narrowed it down to Piper Glen and Optima. We haven't wet tested either one but intend to do so prior to making our decision. Also, our Artesian dealer told us that the cabinets now come in gray as well - is that not the case? We saw an Artesian in the showroom in gray (it wasn't the Platinum series but it was gray. Now I'm curious....
Is Hymbaw a Sundance dealer or owner?
Sled Junkie - love the way your tub looks, thanks for posting the pic.
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You get what you pay for. $11,000 is a little high for an Optima. Negotiate. Go with the Sundance.
Bring on the comments about how I'm biased. I am. There are other that I will give props too(when deserved).
Artesian is a O.K. built tub. Their goal sems to be to copy Sundance(and others) shells with generic parts and low-ball the price.
Most dealers will be biased. You say that it's a copycat going after Sundance ... my Cayman doesn't look anything like a Sundance but it's designer came from LA Spas. Yes it looks like the Concord, but I would imagine that that's what happens when someone designs something - they copy what they designed. Look at Detroit - a certain style becomes popular (remember early '90's - everything looked like a Ford Taurus) and almost every car in a lineup looked the same, some bigger and some smaller.
Does the Piper look like an Optima - NO!. It has a different look and configuration! What has it been copied against? NOTHING.
As far as generic parts - yea your right on that - they use all the top manufacturers on parts - no proprietary parts. No SUN purity, No SUN ozone, NO SUN anything.
My opinion is that Artesian is starting to put a dent in the locked up sales for Sundance and others, so that's why we have to bash it ... Don't worry, when YOU don't make your numbers, Sundance will stop you as a dealer and open up up their own corporate store like they've done else where and maybe they'll hire you.
I am an owner of Artesian and IMO they are GREAT tubs. Am I biased - YES - I looked at many tubs to come up with this tub and there WASN'T any other manufacturer that gave as much value for a tub as did Artesian. They have excellent customer service and as I've seen here, they do take care of their customers. I myself have had a jet issue for the first 7 months of ownership which my dealer was taking care of and when I called Artesian they did take care of the problem!
Is the Optima a good tub, I'm sure it is. I personally didn't have the money to buy a higher end tub so I didn't look at Optimas or Pipers. Rest assure whatever tub you get, you should enjoy.
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Bohms, have you checked out Jacuzzi yet? If you haven't and you have a dealer remotely close, I would strongly recommend going. For that kind of money you could be in a 400 series. The J-470 and J-480 both have what your looking for, (4 corner seats, footwell dome, and ridiculus power). I also think that you would really like their silverwood cabinetry. It's the color I chose and absolutely love. I would have suggested this in my previous post but I was having a mental lapse. :-? As you can tell I'm not a dealer just very passionate about the 400 series. Just haven't been in or seen a spa as nice as the J-480. Some come close, but IMO not close enough. :)
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Taupe cabinet, with oyster opal(desert horizon) shell.
Man, that looks nothing like the actual color taupe, nor does it look like Artesian's sample pic on the website. Is that your tub, sledjunkie? Are we sure that's Artesian's taupe cabinet?
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Yup, that's my tub. It's a gold series Opal 2005. I was told it's the taupe cabinet, and I'm pretty sure it is.
Also, I would say the gold series Emerald is more of a side by side, spec by spec comparision to a Optima..
The piper glen is a serious tub IMO. Too much money for me.
more pics..
(http://home.comcast.net/~chris.leuci/IMG_1453.JPG)
(http://home.comcast.net/~chris.leuci/IMG_1470.JPG)
Next year I'm doing landscaping, deck, new patio, etc..
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Yup, that's my tub. It's a gold series Opal 2005. I was told it's the taupe cabinet, and I'm pretty sure it is.
junkie, that's not what the current taupe cabinet looks like. The 2006 models are a different shade and the slats are narrower. See the link below:
http://www.artesianspas.com/showroom/platinum/options.asp
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The Platinum series does (and did) have a different style of cabinet than the other series. The color was slightly different too. That probably is the taupe color, here's the redwood:
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/vinnynj57/AlmostFinished.jpg)
The dealer should be able to show you a color other than in a book. My dealer had each color and had tubs in the "most popular" colors. What I found was the color chips had a different look than the tubs themselves. I opted for silver marble which is actually white marble to me. My dealer had the Piper outfitted in it and I really liked the way it looked so I copied it. I would have liked to see the oyster opal in person as the chip looked interesting.
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Vinny - do you mean Sterling Marble and not Silver Marble? Is that what your tub is b/c we think we like the Sterling Marble the best but the dealer didn't have a tub with that shell. I like your shell so I just want to make sure it is the Sterling Marble. We were told that there is now a gray cabinet so we would get the Sterling Marble with the gray cabinet if we decide to buy it.
Sled Junkie - I assume that's your daughter - she's adorable. I love the color of your shell too - our dealer said that Desert Horizon is the most popular color but it just wouldn't match our patio too well.
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Yes, it's sterling marble! :-[ I goofed - sterling ... silver ... SORRY!!!
Here's a closeup:
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/vinnynj57/vacation096.jpg)
I don't have any pictures with it empty, maybe I need to do that next water change!
It really is sharp looking and if you get the LED lights (I have the single LED) it really shows nicely at night as I'm sure all light colored tubs do. I believe the Piper comes standard with SS rings and when I saw the combo, I loved it. My original color was going to be the black granite but once I decided on the LED, the light color was the only way to go IMO.
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Vinny - thanks for the close up - that helps out a lot. I think that's what we would go with if we decide on Artesian.
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....Next year I'm doing landscaping, deck, new patio, etc..
and Water.
;D
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IMO bohms, I would go with the Piper Glen if it was down to those 2. You get more jets for your $$ and just as quality of unit I think. The PG was our second choice and we loved the individual controls. The only downsides in our opinion was the force of the footjets (a little weak) and the 4 jet seat we called the "butt seat". A little unusual in it's layout; I suppose they were thinking it could be used in conjunction with the corner seats as thigh, calf, or foot jets (if you curled up your legs). Other than that, we loved it. Our quoted price was $10500 but that included the waterfall, ozone,, led light package, 24 hr circ pump, and the stainless steel escutcheons (all options). We also looked at the Optima (our third choice) but it had less jets (but stronger foot) at $9700.
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bohms, I think you've proven yourself smart enough not to listen to hymbaw's comment, so that's all I'm going to say about that.
LOL, Sledjunkie is always chiming in telling epople they paid too much or the product was overrated but when someone else makes a comment that maybe the spa Bohms is looking at could/should be gotten for less Sledjunkie has to let them know that Hymbaw comment's are out of line (because of course, it's the brand Sledjunkie owns).
Good luck Bohms. Both brands have a good reputation.
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Thanks to everyone for your input. I appreciate the help.
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I didn't chime in because he didn't ask whether or not it was priced right, or was a good deal?
For what's it worth I could have got the piper glen in the low 8's.
I think it's crazy to spend that kind of money on a hot tub. Heck I think it's crazy to spend around $6000 for a hot tub (which is what I paid).
Regardless of the price, I think if you're going to compare apples to apples, Artesian to Sundance Optima, a better comparison to the Optima is the Emerald.
Hymbaw's comments were not at all helpful, in fact they were a bit persuasive, with no facts behind them.
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::)
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In reading your posts the last couple of months, sled, I really think you need a shrink! Besides your almost constant negativism, you are also delusional if you thought you could buy a Piper Glen for the low 8's. Maybe a used one; maybe an old model scratched and damaged, but no way for one brand spanking new. Maybe it didn't have a heater or any pumps? Hey, maybe the one you were quoted was hot!
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I didn't chime in because he didn't ask whether or not it was priced right, or was a good deal?
Sure, you would never chime in with a sniper shot about someone else's spa choice or what they paid LOL. ;D
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you are also delusional if you thought you could buy a Piper Glen for the low 8's.
Maybe not. I was quoted $8995 for the Piper Glen without lighting and stereo. And I'm in a market where spa prices seem to be higher than most other parts of the country.
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bohms, I think you've proven yourself smart enough not to listen to hymbaw's comment, so that's all I'm going to say about that.
I wondered how an unwarranted dig on his brand would go over. Now I know!
. You say that it's a copycat going after Sundance ...
Yep that's what I'm saying. Pretty obvious.
Piper Glen
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g198/hymbaw/plat_Piper_new_large.jpg)
The Real Deal
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g198/hymbaw/OptimaBig.jpg)
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Actually they look quite different to me
Now here is the Emerald...
;D
This is fun!
(http://artesianspas.com/images/gold_show_emerald.jpg)
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wes -
The piper was not hot. It was for a brand spanking new model.
Why is this so hard to believe?
You guys are paying top dollar.
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Piper
Dry Weight 968 lbs
Filled Weight 5,175 lbs
Water Capacity 505 gl
Number of Pumps 6
Pump Descriptions (5) Switchless 3 hp. pumps
(1) 11 gpm 24 hr. circ. pump
Total Jets 59
92x92x36
Emerald
Dry Weight 786 lbs
Filled Weight 4,950 lbs
Water Capacity 500 gl
Number of Pumps 4
Pump Descriptions (2) 6 hp. (1) 3 hp. (1) 11 gpm 24 hr. circ. pump
Total Jets 40
91x91x36
Optima
Dry Weight: 855 lbs
Filled Weight: 4,858 lbs
Water Capacity (Avg. Fill): 480 US gal
Number of Pumps 3
2 TheraMax high-flow pumps and Dynamic Flow Circulation System
Total Jets: 39
7'5" x 7'5" x 37.5"
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Hey I see diverter valves in the Optima, I don't see any in the Piper.
Based on what Sled posted both the Piper and the Emerald have more pumps and jets. Heck even my Cayman has more jets and pumps and it is WAY below an Optima priice.
Is that an actual picture of the Optima, it looks like it has a lot of little jets. Tiny foot dome jets and you don't even have any ass jets in the Optima! ;D
I think you better rethink your thoughts!!!
And before all you Optima owners get too crazy .... hymbaw started it! ;) :D
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Yes hymbaw made me revert to my negative side..
;)
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I was talking about the mold of the shell(which was obviously copied from Sundance)
BTW - The first sign of a cheap tub is when they start touting "how many" jets instead of "how therapeutic" the jet placement is.
On the Piper they have jets way out wide (kidney beaters I guess),
and "ass jets" - Please, you're embarrassing yourselves.
I do know this.... Artesian approached us about becoming a dealer a couple of years back, even sent us a tub to look over. After our service manager looked it over and shared his opinions with the owner, well lets just say "we went another way".
I've said in the past that Artesian is a "good" tub. My initial reply was in response to Sled's non-stop negative comments about every tub that's not an Artesian. Mission accomplished ;D
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Am I missing something?
Could you explain why it's obvious that the mold of the shell on the piper was copied from sundance.
From looking at the pictures, they appear to be very different.
Do I make non-stop negative comments about every tub that isn't artesian? News to me.
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wes -
The piper was not hot. It was for a brand spanking new model.
Why is this so hard to believe?
You guys are paying top dollar.
Maybe. I know I was quoted $10500 with all extras except stereo and I have read many other posters who got a similar price. Wow, if I could have gotten a Piper for $8500 I would have purchased it over my Tundra. That would have been a real buy.
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I have no clue how many jets my Artesian has. I really don't care. All I know is that there are enough to target a lot of different muscles groups and they are strong enough to do a thorough job. The controls are variable enough that I can control how much power I need to accomplish whatever goal it is that I have for the day.
since we are all different sizes and shapes, the jets hit us all in different places. None of the jets beat my kidneys. If they did, I would just turn them off. There are two jets that hit me a little hard in the lats, so I just have them turned off.
As for the "ass jets"....which ones are you talking about? The ones on the seat? Those are actually for the hamstring area. One must be very careful getting on and off the seat.....well....unless of course, you have different goal in mind. The hamstrings are a very important muscle group and this seat does excellent work. I also like sitting in one of the corner seats and putting my legs up to hit my calves.
The other "ass jets" are on the cool off seat. These hit the gluteus medius and other hip rotator muscles. Keeping this area and the hamstrings nice and relaxed can keep lower back pain at bay.
On the Piper Glen, there are plenty of jets placed well enough to be very therapeutic!
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One negative thing I heard about the Artesians is that as the pillows age, they fall off the back fastener (a button I think if I remember correctly) which degrade and then are very difficult to re-attach. Does anyone have an older Artesian (more than a couple years old) who has had that problem?
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The ass jets I was talking about is in the seats and I was goofing about them, my tub has them too!
I thought it was a good idea to have them since I didn't get a lounger and these make that seat a quasi lounger as I have mentioned many times before. I really don't use that seat as a "lounger", but it does work well as a shallow seat.
There were dealers on here, Sundance dealers, that have brought in Artesian and were impressed, so go figure. Although one of the dealers were forced to stop selling Sundance because Sundance pulled the dealership away from them ... it's a shame too as it seems based on what he wrote he was a good dealer.
I think hymbaw needs to calm down as do all of us! :) This gets much too insulting - their only hot tubs!
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Can't quite figure the notion that the PG shell is a copy of the Optima shell. I own neither of the brands in question and have never seen the PG or Emerald in person although I have seen and wet tested an Optima.
In fact all three tubs (including the Emerald) are somewhat similar in that they are four corner, relatively open seating shells of a similar size with a foot dome. So is the one I have for that matter. Seems like there would be little one could do to make them truly distinct from one another since they are all essentially filling the same role. The Optima is more distinct from the PG it appears to me in that it has it has a very round foot well while the PG is fairly square. And the Emerald is kind of somewhere in between. The PG has the stair step seat that neither the Optima or the Emerald have. Jet configurations are different in all three tubs.
As to the equipment on each tub the Optima does indeed seem more like the Emerald. The PG seems to have a good deal more what with a variable speed pump for every corner seat and IF the quality of the equipment used and the construction itself is fairly similar and the price between the PG and Optima were the same I would certainly lean towards the PG, depending on wet test and personal comfort in the spa of course.
As to the quality of jets, pumps, electronics, etc and general construction I certainly can't say if one is better than another. The Optima might truly be vastly superior in components and construction. Doesn't seem likely but it might. But even if it is a little better I might still lean towards PG because it seems to offer greater flexibility.
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Can't quite figure the notion that the PG shell is a copy of the Optima shell. I own neither of the brands in question and have never seen the PG or Emerald in person although I have seen and wet tested an Optima.
If you have a non-lounge spa with the filter in the middle of one sides of a 7½ ft square then you'll end up with the type of seating arrancgement you see there. Is one a copy of the other? It all comes down to your definition of "copy". They certainly have a similar signature but I don't think that's about trying to emulate the Optima but rather it's about how many seats you can have for human being for that size spa. It the gemoetry and human anatomy that may make it seem like it replicates the Optima's layout but how else would you have it. The only part they could call a "copy" IMO is the additon of the foot dome and I'm not who tries to lay claim to that feature as their baby.
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Thanks to those who pointed out that you can now get the Platinum Series in Gray. I called my dealer yesterday and she checked with the factory. Yes the Gray from the other series is now avaiable on the Platinum. I was able to modify my order to change the cabinet color to Gray. Thanks for the help.
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I couldn't agree with hymbaw more about how many jets a tub has. All those tubs with 500 jets (exageration) half of them are the size of dimes and feel like you're getting pissed on. For all new shoppers, if a dealer makes a big deal about their 500 jets just politely say no thanks and walk away.
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I couldn't agree with hymbaw more about how many jets a tub has. All those tubs with 500 jets (exageration) half of them are the size of dimes and feel like you're getting pissed on. For all new shoppers, if a dealer makes a big deal about their 500 jets just politely say no thanks and walk away.
But I see more small jets in an Optima than the Piper, Emerald or my tub ... what are those little round things on the base of the seats or in the foot well? ::)
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I wasn't comparing, just generalizing. But I'll take a look at who has the most useless jets now and get back.
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/wholelottabybassgoinon.jpg)
Wow! :o
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You are definely correct there Vinny. The Optima has a total of 25 pee shooters.
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/wholelottabybassgoinon.jpg)
Wow! :o
Hey Term,
Those are intakes not jets and in my tub the cover is about 4" round and the thing underneath #3 is a bottom drain. All the rest of those round silver things are the jets! ;)
tileman,
Based on the warnings, we really shouldn't be looking for tubs with all those small jets - should we? ::) ;) ;D
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I also don't like the little pee jets or whatever you call them. That was one of the first things I learned during wet testing...
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One thing I've found on these sites is quite a bit of ignorance when comparing models of spas. For everyone's information, the Optima has a blower and the small "pee jets" that some of your are referring to are the air jets. There are 14 of them; 2 in each of the active seats and 4 (out of 8) in the calf level. The Piper Glen doesn't have a blower; thus no "small jets".
I've wet tested both and found them both to be very comfortable and soothing. I believe the PG gives you more bang for the buck with more water jets, but the Optima has air therapy as well as stronger foot jets. The PG in our opinion lacked aggressive pressure to adequately work the feet. One final negative on the PG is that the jets are NOT interchangeable (at least that is what our dealer told us); therefore, an owner does not have the ability to exchange any new jets Artesian may come out with in the future. Regardless, the PG would still be our choice because of the independent pump system. The individual controls is a very nice feature!
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... what are those little round things on the base of the seats or in the foot well? ::)
The small jets in at the base of the seats in the Optima are air injector jets for the blower. There are 14 total; they are not included in the jet count.
As for the smaller jets there are 4 "euro" jets on the Optima.. Two are at neck level on the 2 corner seats next to the waterfall. And 12 "accupressure" jets ... 8 are on the foot well, and 2 sets for the calves.
Our Optima was just delievered week before last. I thought the Emerald appeared to be VERY similar in layout to the Optima and it was on my list to look at before making a final decision. Unfortunately the nearest Artesian was an hour away. We did actually make the road trip one night after work - only to find out they carried only the Island line. (I had even called ahead to inquire about the Emerald and Opal - they gave me pricing...go figure. ) I would have loved to test Emerald and even Piper Glen (depending on price).
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For me, I'm only messing around. I never looked at the Optima and the Piper was sitting next to my tub, I wasn't going to pay $10K for any tub.
I really think these threads get WAY too serious for what we're talking about. They all "copy" each other and the idea is to find the "best" tub for ourselves reguardless what anyone else thinks.
If someone is happy with a Walmart tub, then who am I or anyone else to say it's crap! Did I buy such a tub - no but I didn't buy a "top of the line", "super deluxe", bestest spa either - to me there ain't no such bird - Remember if you paid $3000 or $13,000 - they make hot water and have jets.
Now if someone complains about breaking down a lot or power consumption, then it could be suspect to the type of spa they bought but as we see here - ALL spas might have problems!
Think about it!
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Remember if you paid $3000 or $13,000 - they make hot water and have jets.
Exactly the reason I will be looking at the Bahia and comparable models in a few weeks when my tub hunting season opens.
Although I have not yet ruled out the Optima, Envoy etc.