Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: East_TX_Spa on October 03, 2006, 03:16:27 pm
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http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/spa-care-auto-fresh.html
Terminator
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so how much does one of these systems go for?
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Term
Very interesting can it be retrofitted to non Hot Spring Spas ( yeah, yeah, insert comment here)
Bullfrog uses a Balboa controler if that means anything. Looks like HS may have a great idea.
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Term
Very interesting can it be retrofitted to non Hot Spring Spas ( yeah, yeah, insert comment here)
Bullfrog uses a Balboa controler if that means anything. Looks like HS may have a great idea.
Doubt it, since you need the IQ system.
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How would it do in the winter? With the chemicals so close to the surface, do you think there would be any issues with freezing?
I realize that it is pretty warm under the lid.
Any issues with wires in the filter compartment?
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Are they using a biguanide for the sanitizer, we all know what problems that stuff is with jets, pump seals...
What about the pH, alkalinity, calcium hardness...
I am all for someone coming out with something like this, but from my experience lots of manufacturers have tried similar systems with very negative affects.
What will happen is people will think it is cure all and so they do not have to do anything else.
If it works great, but I will wait and see.
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Great idea!! :)
Except for the fact that it is Baqua Spa. :-/
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Great idea!! :)
Except for the fact that it is Baqua Spa. :-/
How do you know it is Baqua Spa?
How much w/install Term?
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How do you know it is Baqua Spa?
How much w/install Term?[/quote]
Look at the link it shows its Baqua Spa.... :o
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Missed that, thx.
I thought Baqua Spa was not recommended? So now HS approves Baqua Spa in addition to Everfresh?
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I think we discussed this months ago ... more $$$$$$$$$$ for HS!
Call my broker - BUY Masco!
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Think again. Their stock is down 20% over the last year, they just aquired another 1 Bil of debt and outlooks have been lowered...
Selling short might be better. :-/
I think we discussed this months ago ... more $$$$$$$$$$ for HS!
Call my broker - BUY Masco!
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Think again. Their stock is down 20% over the last year, they just aquired another 1 Bil of debt and outlooks have been lowered...
Selling short might be better. :-/
I think we discussed this months ago ... more $$$$$$$$$$ for HS!
Call my broker - BUY Masco!
Actually, I have kitchen cabinets from Home Depot and a Delta faucet and considering everything is profit, profit profit ... the fact that Enron could swindle professional investors AND I own 800 shares of Lucent that is worth almost nothing (average price paid -$15/share (thought at that price it was a bargin)) I ain't too quick in jumping on the individual stock bandwagon anytime soon!
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Sorry, I've been busy today. Since I was at the fair yesterday, today has been hopping.
To answer some of the questions:
Yes, it is biguanicide based. I was not happy to hear that. It was explained to me at a dealer conference that 99% of the biguanicide problems come from overdosing. I said "I still ain't buying it." We talked to several dealers who had been beta testing the system for 2 years. Each one of them said "It is fantastic. It works as advertised." We shall see...I hope it does.
It is only available on a HotSpring Spa. Each HS model since mid 2004 is already pre-wired to accept the Auto-Fresh, if I remember correctly.
Freezing shouldn't be a problem. One of the dealers we talked to lives in Montana and I understand it's chilly up there in the winter. He had no problems.
Cost should be between $800-1000 if I remember correctly. Chemical cartridges should run around $50 and last around 2 months.
I've got a softball game at 7:30 so I gotta go!
If anyone knows how to get in touch with Spaman, send me a pm with his #. I couldn't find him at the fair and the CalSpa dealer acted like he wanted to whup me.
Terminator
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$600 a year for the chemical cartridge alone?
And an additional $800-$1000 for the system?
Sorry if I'm being negative again, but that's absolutely the most ridiculous non-economical solution for water care.
Surprised to see that someone who claims to be the #1 selling brand, recommend a chemical solution such as baqua, which so many (including everyone on this board) DO NOT recommend.
Good luck selling that Mr. Texas.
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i believe with the chem cartrige lasting 2-3 months at 50 bucks a pop that makes only 300 bucks a year. not 600
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The only reason I am responding is because of the comment regarding everyone on this board does not recommend Baqua Spa. Just because Baqua Spa is not as popular as Di-Chlor does not mean that dealers don’t use it or recommend it. Baqua Spa has been around a long time as a successful sanitizer. Remember that consumers complain most about the adding of chemicals and the hassle of it. Dealers/manufacturers complain about having to service spas that were not properly maintained. This assists in all of that.
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sorry my bad, my mind was elsewhere . $300 a year. ..
regardless
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I've always taken Baqua as a last resort sanitizer. Some consumers have allergies or sensitivities to Bromine or Chlorine, hence one of the reasons some dealers chose to carry Baqua.
However in my search most dealers clearly recommended against Baqua, whether they carried it or not. Most didn't even carry it.
What does everyone else think of this Hotsprings water care solution???
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Read the AutoFresh pdf manual...looks like it is no less work and hassle than a good chlorine/bromine routine. And I'm sure the cartridge would cost a LOT more than comparable chems for a manual system...after all, it is baqua and we all know how much more baqua costs over chlorine/bromine. Somehow this may be a great system for a rental unit or for very infrequent use but I don't see how it is of great benefit to the typical spa owner. And then there's the initial cost.....
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Somehow this may be a great system for a rental unit or for very infrequent use but I don't see how it is of great benefit to the typical spa owner. And then there's the initial cost.....
That might be a good point. We've had users here in the forum in both situations.
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Having seen one of these in action, I was actually pleasantly surprised at the results. When you have the AutoFresh system, I believe the Ozonator is dismantled for better mounting.
I don't believe that this is necessarily the best solution to ease of water care, but if you can make one chemical dispenser work, chances are you can make others work, i.e. an automated liquid chlorine dispenser. I think that the thought behind autofresh as the intrepid sanitizer is that it IS safe, so if a homeowner did mess things up, they at least wouldn't gas themselves off or blow something up.
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The concept is similar to the Marquis system that automatically dispenses bromine/minerals. The system costs approx. $150-200 a year for the cartridges, and I've heard people on here complain about that being too much. If it's any over $300 a year I don't think people will pay for it.
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The concept is similar to the Marquis system that automatically dispenses bromine/minerals. The system costs approx. $150-200 a year for the cartridges, and I've heard people on here complain about that being too much. If it's any over $300 a year I don't think people will pay for it.
Does the Marquis system self-adjust it's output? I always assumed it to be a system where you set the output like a bromine floater and it's goes but it depends on how you define "automatic". The system here varies the output so I'd think they're apples to oranges really. Me, I'll stick with chlorine for now but there are many people out there wanting a system that self adjusts to maintain the water so there certainly is a market. We'll see where this goes.
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$600 a year for the chemical cartridge alone?
And an additional $800-$1000 for the system?
Sorry if I'm being negative again, but that's absolutely the most ridiculous non-economical solution for water care.
Surprised to see that someone who claims to be the #1 selling brand, recommend a chemical solution such as baqua, which so many (including everyone on this board) DO NOT recommend.
Good luck selling that Mr. Texas.
I will be buying a new spa soon and if this system really works like it is suppose to without harming my tub in the long run I wouldn't think twice about spending the extra money at purchase time. At less than a dollar a day for the price of the cartridge that seems economical enough for someone like myself with a very busy life.
Ed
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Dirthead -
Sounds like you have plenty of money to blow, or are the laziest person I've ever met.
In order to help your decision, how about an offer like this:
FREE ELECTRICITY FOR THE LIFE OF THE SPA!!!
Because that's pretty much what not having this system equates to.
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Dirthead -
Sounds like you have plenty of money to blow, or are the laziest person I've ever met.
In order to help your decision, how about an offer like this:
FREE ELECTRICITY FOR THE LIFE OF THE SPA!!!
Because that's pretty much what not having this system equates to.
Sledjunkie,
I have 4 kids, a wife, a job, many obligations to my Church, Town, Kids sports, house to maintain, immediate family that always seems to need a helping hand, Doctors, Dentists, orthodontist, CCD, haircuts, and what seems like a million other things going on in my life on a daily basis.
I don't smoke or drink or BLOW money on anything. I do spend money but hopefully it is always wisely. Like I said if this system works the way it is suppose to be it would be worth it over the life of the spa for me.
That is just my opinion.
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Sounds like you have the typical busy schedule we all have. If you’re worried about time needed to maintain a spa, don't be. It's not hard at all. I know reading this site is a bit overwhelming, especially the water care part, but if you knew how easy it was, you wouldn't waste your money on a system such as this.
Seriously don't buy into the marketing of this product on the hotsprings website.
My opinion as well..
Good luck!
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Dirthead -
Sounds like you have plenty of money to blow, or are the laziest person I've ever met.
In order to help your decision, how about an offer like this:
FREE ELECTRICITY FOR THE LIFE OF THE SPA!!!
Because that's pretty much what not having this system equates to.
Just once I'd like to see you leave a reply that isn't seething with bitterness and contempt.
Just ONCE.
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This new system should be an interesting topic for many month to come. I am looking forward to future comments from people that end up getting this.
If it's a good system and stands the test of time, I'd be interested in purchasing it.
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Hey Giraff -
I'm sorry, really I am. This is just the way I look at it.
Maybe I'm just brutally honest. Not sure.
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Hey Giraff -
I'm sorry, really I am. This is just the way I look at it.
Maybe I'm just brutally honest. Not sure.
Give us a break. Being honest with your opinion is fine but you go out of your way to belittle others who don't think your way. Whether it's their spa choice, their choice of how they sanitize or how they spend their money you always have to have some jackass response that is less than accepting of others opinions because only yours seems to count. You've made it pretty clear that you look down on most anyone who is in the spa industry here (most of us have thick skin so we'll live) but you try come accross as some expert but you have some need to put down others in doing so (didn't you make some kind of statement that you're here to educate consumers, Mr Nader?).
I'd say you're a legend in your own mind. (BTW, I doubt you're really very sorry other than to be sorry that others aren't smart enough to think your way).
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I can see how someone might want this system. It's not necessarily laziness as much as it is forgetfulness (missing a day or two in the tub and forgetting to add dichlor). It's funny, I've been reading up on Bromine Generators for exactly this reason.
I forgot a dose of dichlor during a recent rainy spell and my water got cloudy. A big shock and 2 days went by before I was back in business. I was PO'd that I couldn't use my tub while I was waiting for the chlorine levels to stabilize.
I read a thread about a guy who switched from a Bromine Generator back to Dichlor because of fine black particles the generating unit was putting into his tub. I guess there is no perfect solution.
Dichlor does work extremely well (as long as you don't forget to add it) ::)
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Spatech , you're reading into my posts at bit much don't you think?
As far as belittling others, I don't see it that way. Too bad you do.
So what if I disagree with some of the posts. I give my opinion, whether you like it or not. I've also made a general statement in the past that I hate salesman. So? Generally speaking, I do.
I really don't care if alot of this board are salesman and get offended by that.
And I do feel I'm educating consumers. In this situation especially I'm making sure dirthead understands what this thing really is before visiting his local dealer who will most likely praise how good of a system it is, when in fact it's a waste of money in my opinion.
And to be quite honest I think most of you will agree this particular system is a waste of money, and utilizes a sanitizer that most if not all DO NOT recommend.
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The Marquis system does not self adjust, but if you use your spa on a regular basis you set the cartrdige to a certain setting and forget about it. There are also maintenance reminders that pop up and remind you to change your cartridges. It would be cool if the HS system could test the water for you and disperse the other chemicals such as pH, Alk, hardness as well. We all know that these will have to be adjusted manually on a regular basis because people's bodies put out different ph/alk.
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when in fact it's a waste of money in my opinion.
And to be quite honest I think most of you will agree this particular system is a waste of money, and utilizes a sanitizer that most if not all DO NOT recommend.
A waste? Looks to me to be a very nice convenience. That ain't cheep. But a convenience never the less. There's alot of other "conveniences" that have become a way of life. Dishwashers, electric refrigerators, clothes driers, hell, indoor plumbing is a convenience. All of these things could be done other, cheaper, ways. If I was in the market for a portable spa, and I had the bucks (which many people do), this is something that for me, very likely would sway me.
As for no one recommending Baqua type products? [size=14]BULL![/size] BaquaSpa is a large company that's been around for a while. What? You think the owners just put the weekly payroll on their personal credit cards? Why then did Leisure Time, part of the largest spa and pool chemical company in the country, come out with their own "knock-off" line of baqua type products?
Oops......... So baquaspa is part of ARCH CHEMICALS INC. (ARJ), over 2700 employees, stock has done ok over the last 12 months (up almost 5% today), CEO making $1.30M (he'll go with the new Hot Spring Spa no doubt), 1.3B in annual sales with 133m in the bank.. Not bad, for something "NO ONE' recommends ;)
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Ok Doc.
Do you use Baqua?
Would you?
Why or Why not?
Would you recommend it over Dichlor or Bromine to customers?
I have not read one good thing about Baqua on this site.
A waste of money. Yes that's right. I think so.
Are you seriously comparing the hotspring"autofresh" system to a dishwasher, refrigerator, or clothes dryer?
Yes they may be both considered conveniences, but you’re not comparing apples to apples.
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Spatech , you're reading into my posts at bit much don't you think?
As far as belittling others, I don't see it that way. Too bad you do.
Umm, yeah, it must be me. ::)
And I do feel I'm educating consumers. In this situation especially I'm making sure dirthead understands what this thing really is before visiting his local dealer who will most likely praise how good of a system it is, when in fact it's a waste of money in my opinion.
So how long have you been an expert in this field? Heck, I see people here with many years of experience in the field of spas (which would be many more than you) and they state opinions and experiences in a way to be helpful but they don't pretend to be nearly as omniscient as you.
Look up the definition of narcissist. If you don't have a dictionary just use the mirror.
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I know many people who use baqua spa and are very happy with it. One of the advantages of using baqua is the ease of use and the need to add product just once per week. One of the disadvantages is the high price.
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$600 a year for the chemical cartridge alone?
And an additional $800-$1000 for the system?
Sorry if I'm being negative again, but that's absolutely the most ridiculous non-economical solution for water care.
No intended to be cheaper. It is intended to be easier.
I have spent more on many things in my life which make it easier, even if they are not cheaper.
If you want the cheapest way to go with a HS spa, there is nothing stopping you from using Dichlor, Spa Down and bottle of test strips.
8-)
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"Do you use Baqua?"
no
"Would you?"
I might..... Especially if I stocked it and could simply grab a bottle as I'm heading home ::)
"Why or Why not?"
I don't carry or sell it, and prefer to recommend something I can make a $ off of (so I can some day buy me one O dem fancy new-fangled, take-care-of-em-selves spa) and prefer something I'm familiar enough with to offer complete competent support to my customers.
All I know about baquaspa I've learned from maybe a 1/2 dozen people posting on internet message boards. I have the intelligence to know to take this kind of information with the finest grain of salt ;)
"Would you recommend it over Dichlor or Bromine to customers?"
Again, I don't sell it, I typically don't recommend it..... but you know, as I edit and spell check here, yeah, I've suggest to a few people that it might be worth them looking into it. SO THERE ;D
"I have not read one good thing about Baqua on this site."
OMG! You're so right. How could I have ever doubted?? Nothin on this site? VINNY!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got another stock to sell short... Now we can put our eggs in 2 baskets. ;D
"A waste of money. Yes that's right. I think so."
And you have the right to think this, or anything else you want. Just like anyone else has the equal right to the opposite opinion. And neither of those opinions carries any weight.
Step back for a minute. The feelings you have towards someone for having a different opinion than you. Do you understand that they may have the same feeling towards you for differing from their opinion? Do you understand that they have the same right to feel this way as you do?
"Are you seriously comparing the hotspring"autofresh" system to a dishwasher, refrigerator, or clothes dryer?"
I made no such comparison. I simply said it was a convenience. A convenience that some, possibly many, people are going to be willing to pay for. The fact that you don't find value in it, has no bearing on what other people might feel. And, they have just as much right to feel the way they do, as you do to feel as you like.
An opinion is kinda like gas..... You may think yours is the best smell in the world, but to everyone else it stinks (feel free to edit this out bill ;D)
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1) I have recommended BaquaSpa on this site. I guess I am no one.
2) BaquaSpa has no effect on plastics or seals unless cheap plastics or seals are being used. The issues are usually pH related as pools and spas with Baqua tend to have high pH if user does not manage properly. That being said, I repeat, the problems with plastics and seals are problems of the spa manufacturers not the chemicals.
3) Our stores have 1000's of BaquaSpa users.
4) If directions on all products are followed properly, Nature2 w/MPS is as costly or more so than BaquaSpa.
5) AutoFresh will cost around $1000. Catridges will be good for 3 to 4 months (or more on a light bather load Jetsetter). Replacement will cost about $100. Have you checked out cost of Nature2 and MPS?
6) No question this will be a more expensive but more convenient system to use (if it works as advertised). Just as the throw away filter programs are advertised as more convenient, but obviosly costly.
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To make a cost comparison, you should be comparing the "Autofresh system(including cartridges) to using the Baqua Spa program. Any other comparison (including dichlor, etc) is not valid IMO.
I think this "Autofresh" system is a waste of money, period.
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Everyone please peruse the pdf manual (http://www.hotspring.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi?c=3&f=Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/pdfs/owners_manual_autofresh_06.pdf). Does it not sound a bit like programming a VCR...complicated enough that only a middle schooler could operate? ::) (BTW, does anyone still remember VCR's? :)) There's quite a bit to this--certainly not the "set and forget" that Watkins would like you to believe. And you still have to add extra chems after a heavy bather load and you still have to check it once every two weeks and you still should clean the filters at least once every 2 weeks (IMHO). It really doesn't do anything less than taking about 2 minutes after a soak to add dichlor and testing/adjusting the water once every week or two do (also, IMHO).
I'll be really interested to read how "seasoned" tub owners react to this. I say "seasoned" because new owners that only use this system will have nothing to compare it to, though I would be interested in their opinions, too. And I'll be very interested in the opinions of those dealers who try it and give honest opinions...no marketing rhetoric wanted. And then there would be the opinions of the techs who have to fix'em...or do they not break? ;) I really don't see how those of us who find tub maintenance to be a "no-brainer" would be interested for our own tubs that we regularly use.
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I think this "Autofresh" system is a waste of money, period.
I think your posts are a waste of disk space, period.
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Windsurfdog couldn't have said it better.
Brookenstein for the record it doesn't take up much bandwidth to post to a thread here.
Now if you were to say all my posts are a waste of disk space @ rackspace.com's webservers (asuming they are hosting the servers) then that would have made more sense.
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Sled Junkie,
My bad. I'd be happy to modify my post accordingly.
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Thanks
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Wow I missed this post! Term, I remember you talking about an awesome new concept that HS was working on...so this was it!
Looking at so many water issue posts on this forum, I think Hot Springs is addressing one of the biggest concerns for new tub owners!
And addressing the constant concern for casual owners who don't have time to learn or do all the water maintenance associated with hot tubs. Face it, virtually every owner on this forum (who didn't already have a chemistry background) probably feels like they have passed chem 101 when they get the water thing down and are able to effectivley trouble shoot when things get out of wack!
I am the first to admit that I HATED my spa Frog...it was the convenience from hell...until I dumped my water , started over and let imy frog do what it was supposed to do. Now, I include it in the many reasons I love my tub! And I don't care about the cost of the cartridges....it is a convenience that keeps my tub ready when needed!
Doc, I am hanging on to my Masco..the dividends aren't too shabby and it's what I know...what I use, Now I know a little more and I love innovative new ideas! ;)
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I personally think the AutoFresh system is a great idea. I'm actually surprised that a fully automated water care system hasn't been developed by a major spa manufacturer already.
This system might not be for everyone, but there must be a huge market for a system that will maintain your water automatically. Most of us on this board are the exception to the rule. Not everyone wants to maintain their water care system on a daily basis. I hope this system sparks a new trend in spa water care.
Amen Watkins.
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is this feature going to be standard on new HS spas?
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Sounds like a win, all the way around. HS gets a new marketing ploy, and the early adopters get a new convenience widget. The other manufacturers will need to address this by coming out with their own version of the auto-water maintenance thingy, and eventually a feature price war will ensue. What's not to like? ;)
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To make a cost comparison, you should be comparing the "Autofresh system(including cartridges) to using the Baqua Spa program. Any other comparison (including dichlor, etc) is not valid IMO.
I think this "Autofresh" system is a waste of money, period.
To be specific (since we're here to help others ;)) I think it should be a comparison of Autofresh vs manaully using Baqua Spa.
I think this "Autofresh" system is what some will want and what others won't but you can't take your opinion of how it fits your life and determine whether a "waste of money" for everyone.
I'll stick with dichlor but what others do is their choice based on their lives and their desires.
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is this feature going to be standard on new HS spas?
Nope.
I really hope they use it as a launching-off point for other feeders, though. I like the automatic brominator in other spas, certainly beats that BioQuest crap HS tried awhile back.
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Not everyone wants to maintain their water care system on a daily basis.
Gombo, I use the tried and true dichlor routine and I do not have to maintain it on a daily basis. I may skip a day or two if I don't soak. And if my schedule/desire causes me to go several days without soaking, it takes me all of about 2 minutes to scoop a couple of tsp of dichlor in and about 1 minute 15 minutes later to close the cover. This is nowhere close to daily maintenance. It's a no-brainer, to me. Certainly I have no problem with HS providing this system for those that choose to buy it but I would hope that people would look at it for what it really is. The time for maintenance that this system requires is not much different than manual systems. Once again, this is not a panacea for hot tub chemisty...it is not hands off automatic the way the marketers would want you to believe. And the programming is rather VCR-ish. Unfortunately, tub owners will still have to think....a horrible thought in itself.... ;)
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Are windsurfdog adn I the only ones with enough guts to post any negative comments on this "Autofresh" system?
I mean I can understand dealers having to support watkins, but ....
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No one is criticizing Windsurf’s comments as he actually posted some interesting information about his sanitizer.
We are criticizing your comments because you said and I quote “waste” and “not one good thing” in very blunt and ridiculous terms. These are completely inappropriate comments from someone that has no experience using this product (BaquaSpa or AutoFresh).
The largest manufacturer of portable spas feels that this is not a waste of money and that BaquaSpa is a good sanitizer. That is the opinion that matters and quite honestly the only opinion that matters.
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Are windsurfdog adn I the only ones with enough guts to post any negative comments on this "Autofresh" system?
I mean I can understand dealers having to support watkins, but ....
Sure, try to piggyback onto someone else's posts that are clear, concise and have some meaning rather than your Archie Bunker responses.
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Sorry if you can't handle my blunt responses. I thought they were pretty clear and concise.
Wake up please!
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Sorry if you can't handle my blunt responses. I thought they were pretty clear and concise.
Wake up please!
Wide awake Archie.
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Sorry if you can't handle my blunt responses. I thought they were pretty clear and concise.
Wake up please!
Wide awake Archie.
Scream at Edith to bring ya another beer Archie.
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Are windsurfdog adn I the only ones with enough guts to post any negative comments on this "Autofresh" system?
I mean I can understand dealers having to support watkins, but ....
I wouldn't say posting comments on a web based forum gives you the "Brass Set" you think you have sledjunkie. It's tough to post anything negetive about something that has not even been in mass production yet. As a dealer, I have no say until I see in field experience with this item. At the very least it is a stepping stone to bigger and better things for all MFG's.
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Well if you ask me it's pretty clear that this "autofresh" is not worth the $.
Sure Hotspings could have started a trend here, for better things to come(did I say it was a bad invention?), however I still think this system as it is today (which utilizes baqua, and is expensive) is not worth the $.
So again, I don't think it's a Waste, just a "Waste of money".
Why do you keep asuming things????
Am I not clear here?
I think, this autofresh system, is a waste of money!
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Sledjunkie,
I think we get the point! YOU think this is a waste of money. Good for YOU!!! I think it is a little premature to judge without having all the facts or any experience with the system. Would I use it, probably not. But that doesn't mean it is a waste of money. Number one complaint of hot tub users is the chemical routine. If this makes it a little bit easier for some, what is the harm. Remember opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one, even YOU!!!
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What's funny is that I'm as big a skeptic as anyone can be and I am just not sure how it's all going to pan out. However....
I've shown the demo to 4 people so far in my showroom, told them the cost, and each one of them wants to have it installed when we get them. They said it is worth the cost to them.
Got me a little excited, I have to admit! :)
Terminator
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Next time video your sales demo and upload to the net, I'd love to see what your true feelings are on this system and how you're selling it to customers..
Sorry, had to...,
;D
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Next time video your sales demo and upload to the net, I'd love to see what your true feelings are on this system and how you're selling it to customers..
Sorry, had to...,
;D
If I can, I surely will. :)
Terminator
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Gosh, I think Term is about as clear as he can be...no video needed.
This is something completely new, but it has tremendous promise, not only as a unique feature but as a major innovation in water care.
I don't think anything that makes water care simpler would be hard to sell....Remember many new buyers have serious concerns about how they will do water management...This would be great for folks with vacation homes or even rentals!
Keep us posted on how it works in your new showroom...that would be a good test, Term
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If it works and there are no maintenance issues, I am very interested.
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I just have one observation. If you go back and read (other threads) most comments regarding Baqua at the very very best are mixed. I am surprised that suddenly there is so much enthusiasm for it now. I think its great that any company can offer a easy way for you to care for your spa. I am just surprised that the foundation for this program is Baqua.
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The excitment is probably more for the system, then for the chemicals.
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Not everyone wants to maintain their water care system on a daily basis.
Gombo, I use the tried and true dichlor routine and I do not have to maintain it on a daily basis. I may skip a day or two if I don't soak. And if my schedule/desire causes me to go several days without soaking, it takes me all of about 2 minutes to scoop a couple of tsp of dichlor in and about 1 minute 15 minutes later to close the cover. This is nowhere close to daily maintenance. It's a no-brainer, to me. Certainly I have no problem with HS providing this system for those that choose to buy it but I would hope that people would look at it for what it really is. The time for maintenance that this system requires is not much different than manual systems. Once again, this is not a panacea for hot tub chemisty...it is not hands off automatic the way the marketers would want you to believe. And the programming is rather VCR-ish. Unfortunately, tub owners will still have to think....a horrible thought in itself.... ;)
windsurfdog, I'm just like you. I'll probably never change from my dichlor routine either. The Vermonter method is posted on my refrigerator. I'm very familiar with it. Like I said, the Everfresh system is not for everyone.
I still think it's a great idea for the masses though. Most spa owners don't spend time analyzing every detail like we do. Most of us on this board are in the tail of the statistical distribution. I still think there is a huge market for an automated system for the typical spa owner. We'll have to wait and see if the system takes off.
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Next time video your sales demo and upload to the net, I'd love to see it..
Ok big guy - go to this page,
http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/spa-care-auto-fresh.html
Once you get there, Click on the link that looks like this: (http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/gifs/bug_autofresh.gif)
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watched it again, no comment.
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watched it again, no comment.
I think you just made my day. I just wonder how long your silence can last. :)
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Everybody has a right to voice their opinion. Even if it is five times. ;)
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Am I not clear here?
I think, this autofresh system, is a waste of money!
I think you are missing the point.
The way you say something means as much as what you say.
For example, I don't agree with your opinion. So I could say, "Thanks for your opinion, but I have a defferent opinion about it."
Or I could say, "You're an idiot."
They both express about the same thing, which one would you rather read if the opnion in question is yours?
8-)
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(http://209.85.48.9/2342/69/emo/bowdown.gif)
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Whether or not the Autofresh system is successful will be determined by the consumers. The implementation may not be perfect, but it is a step in the direction of more complete automation. I, for one, am not averse to NOT having to mess with chemicals and water testing. I'd be perfectly happy to have a spa that took care of itself altogether - up to the point where it could order its own chemical cartridges as needed over the Internet. For me, convenience is VERY important. I will pay more for a product if it has features that are convenient for me.
When I see the number of posts regarding water chemistry issues that I do on this site, I can't help but believe that, in the end, we will have spas that automatically monitor and control the water chemistry.
If, as many of you say, the top brands of spas are all pretty much equivalent in terms of quality, and the selection of the spa comes down largely to subjective issues such as comfort, then the Autofresh system is another way for a manufacturer to significantly differentiate their product from their competition.
Regards,
Altazi
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I'm sorry I was away when this thread was posted.
Term, is this the new system you mentioned last year, and had estimated it would be available by mid 06?
Not sure if I would retrofit my spa for this system, (and yea, I think $300/year relativley a lot for chems )but it is interesting. If I was buying a new spa, I would absoltuey consider it. My only concern is it's a new system without too much field use in customer hands is how relable is it? Time will tell.
windsurf tells us: I use the tried and true dichlor routine and I do not have to maintain it on a daily basis. I may skip a day or two if I don't soak. And if my schedule/desire causes me to go several days without soaking, it takes me all of about 2 minutes to scoop a couple of tsp of dichlor in and about 1 minute 15 minutes later to close the cover. This is nowhere close to daily maintenance. It's a no-brainer, to me.
You know, maybe I've got magic water or something, but (as I've reported to Vinny), I only add dichlor after I use the tub and I'm doing great too. I can go several days without a problem. I went away last week. Just before leaving on Sunday morning I added 4 teaspoons of dichlor to my tub. 9 days later on Monday afternoon, I checked the tub. Water was crystal clear, clean and fresh smelling. test strips showed trace amounts of dichlor, and everything else spot on. Perfect!
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Yes sir, one and the same. Had to get FDA approval in each individual state is what caused the delay according to the information transmitted from the Mothership.
Terminator- Loyal Follower
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Couple questions..
First, is it HS only or will it work with Tiger River that has the IQ2020 board?
Second, Perhaps this is a dead horse issue, but some people do tend here to get riled up when someone mentions things like "baquaspa", or "ozone", or "silver ion" as legitimate means of sanitizing and maintaining a hot tub. Now, Throwing out any hot tub not made in 2006 or later, can someone explain to me how a very large company like Hot Springs would market any of these items and put them under their warranty if they didnt work as advertised?
I look at it this way.. I am no expert, but I am willing to bet that any multi-million dollar manufacturer that warranties all their products for no less than 5 years would spend a little time and money to make sure that not only is their gizmo not harmful to the product (seals, plumbing, electrical, shell, etc) but also not harmful to the end users. Also I imagine some of this time and money would have bought them some research that actually shows that these sorts of things do work in sanitizing a hot tub.
Yes, I am sure that as concepts were developed and released to the market, there were brands that failed to work as advertised. I am also assuming that in the past there has been reasons for people to not want to vary from their tried and trued methods of sanitizing. But with the same logic, I would also assume that companies that make and LOSE millions of dollars actually try to learn the reasons that their products failed or didnt fail. This would also lead me to believe that this trial and error would lead to a better product.
I am not a spa expert by any stretch, but I am a computer expert, and I have seen technologies come and go, some worked well and others didnt, and some were improved upon to go from the not working well to working better than ever expected. The one thing I have learned from all this is that you should never discount a technology or brand based on past experience alone.
Someone in this thread mentioned that Baqua products work poorly in spas because people tend to use too much.. So you take a computer that uses input from the customer on PH and alkalinity and, knowing all the other specs of the spa, can properly dose the system with chemicals and keep the water clean and healthy. Sounds good to me.
Matter of fact, even though some would call me cheap (I prefer the term frugal), I would be interested in a system like this. I am not lazy, I just dont want to deal with the chemical hassle all the time. I was told by the dealer that I would be spending around $160 a year on chems anyway. Going to $300 a year is NOT a big deal to me from there. Sure there will likely be a high up front cost, but I am the type of person that wants to spend $300 for a light bulb that changes color.. Am I really an idiot for thinking that spending a little money so that I dont have to worry as much about buying, storing, and adding chems is a good idea?
The advantage I have over some of the veteran spa owners is this: I have had my tub for a little over a month now, and dont have a built up bias towards any maintenance routines. I assume what the dealer taught me is good enough, and I assume that what the people who make the tub and warranty it say is also good enough. After all, if the system doesnt work, they will be the ones that have to deal with it.
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Why can't we just all get along here?????????
:'(
Jr
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First, is it HS only or will it work with Tiger River that has the IQ2020 board?
HotSpring only at this point.
The rest of your post was right on. :)
Terminator
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When will the Autofresh system be released for California residents?
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When will the Autofresh system be released for California residents?
I'm assuming it's available all over. We've tried to order some for our showrooms, but are having some trouble with the online ordering system.
As soon as I get one in, I'll hook it up, take pictures, and do an online review of it.
Terminator
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When will the Autofresh system be released for California residents?
I'm assuming it's available all over. We've tried to order some for our showrooms, but are having some trouble with the online ordering system.
As soon as I get one in, I'll hook it up, take pictures, and do an online review of it.
Terminator
I talked to a California dealer and he told be it wasn't released for CA yet. Maybe he was mis-informed. Is the Autofresh available in your area yet Chas?
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Wow!!! What a thread. For a product that has just been released, there sure is a lot of discussion.
Sledjunkie, money wasted is purely in the eye of the beholder. What may be a waste to you may not be a waste to me. If I want the system, like the way it works and am willing to pay the money, then it is NOT a waste of money. You sure seem to have a way with words and making friends.
Sure, a lot of pool/spa dealers don't push Baqua. Not every dealer can get it. I have found the dealers selling Baqua like it and those who don't sell it don't like it. Hmmm. I wonder why that is...
Seems like Hot Spring is on to something here. I, for one, don't enjoy putting stuff in the water. If I can have a system that will do it for me, great!! I'm all for it. Seems like all you have to do is input some info on startup and then every couple of weeks verify how much you use the spa. Appears to be easy to me. I'm willing to pay extra for easy. A lot of customers are willing as well. Why do you think navigation systems sell in cars? Maps are cheaper and get you to the same spot. A nav system is just easier.
I will wait to express my opinion of whether I like it or not until after I see it working. My dealer told me my spa is Auto Fresh ready. It has a plug in the filter compartment and so it should work. Once he gets it, I may try it out.
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Just a couple questions
I have been told that ozone and Baqua do not get a long, so does that mean when you get this your tub won't come standard with ozone, because it is not in the diagram.
ok 1 question 1 comment
While this be like the Bio Free fiascoo for all you 10 + Watkins dealers
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So let me see if I have this right, Sledmonkey is still on the fence about this one?
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I talked to a California dealer and he told be it wasn't released for CA yet. Maybe he was mis-informed. Is the Autofresh available in your area yet Chas?
I'll get in touch with the Mothership on Tuesday - going waterskiing on Monday, sorry - and I'll let you know.
But none of the material they have teleported over to us has said otherwise: it sounds like I can order it now.
8-)
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Maps are cheaper and get you to the same spot. A nav system is just easier.
No no no. Maps are far easier.
Nav systems are much more COOL.
8-)
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When will the Autofresh system be released for California residents?
I'm assuming it's available all over. We've tried to order some for our showrooms, but are having some trouble with the online ordering system.
As soon as I get one in, I'll hook it up, take pictures, and do an online review of it.
Terminator
Term, Just pick up the phone and order one, I ordered 2 last week as soon as I saw the start of this thread, they should have been here yesterday but the truck carrying them, along with 16 of my spas, crashed somwhere in Tennesee, they now won't be here till Thursday.
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As I sit here and read this, with my legs that feel like they are sunburned after using the spa last night and not testing the water first, I think this might be a neat idea......sigh
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For some reason I still can't get the link.
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As I sit here and read this, with my legs that feel like they are sunburned after using the spa last night and not testing the water first, I think this might be a neat idea......sigh
You still have to test your water. This system sounds like a reasonable idea some what like the Frog in-line system but you still must test with both and you still have to do some balancing. I am still just a little surprised that it seems to be so welcome as it is a Baqua system that in the the past would get luke warm endorsements at best.
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It is not available in CA yet. It is an EPA issue, not FDA.
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I can't wait for the chlorine version......................
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ok I've been useing baq for 10-12 years in the pool really great no problems.So couple years ago as all in the bis know that the patent ran out and u can use "as the many dealers say exact same stuff differant name" .Now the new word on the "street" is you'll be able to buy same stuff at wallmart etc. So if this is true this system would be cost effective.I dunno but again theres alot of differant brands that are the same as baq nowadays.
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I have heard intelligent aruments on both sides of that debate:
Some say that you can renew a patent to keep a design or idea protected as long as you want/need,
others say that a patent can expire and then vultures can sweep in and begin selling what you gave blood, sweat and tears to design or create.
I sure would like to hear a definitive answer on that one.
8-)
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I don't believe a patent can be renewed, but you can get a new patent on the same thing as long as you change something about that thing. Case in point dual moto massage vs. single moto massage.