Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: slimchance on October 03, 2006, 09:29:04 am
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If there is one thing I noticed that remained consistent regardless of what tub manufacturer I researched is that they all out source their pump motors, (AO Smith, Emerson, etc...). Â Since they play such an integral role in the overall enjoyment of your tub ie: hydrotherapy, noise, is there some advice on what to look for and what to stay away from? Â Is one brand more troublesome then the other? Â What do you look for to minimize the noise which was very important to me?
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They're all good. Water chemistry is the single biggest contributor to pump problems. Next would be an equipment compartment super-heated by jet pump. Equipment, electronics that stay cool, last longer.
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G.E. is by far the worst on the market currently. Over the last three-five years they have had issue with motors stuck in high speed and overheating motors due to low grade copper.
They claim to have fixed the issues but for the length of time they had the issues and would not fix it, I will not use one on a spa today!
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You're not going to get a straight answer on this question here.
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You're not going to get a straight answer on this question here.
and why do you think that?
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Slimchance,
I am not a spa/pool tech, but I handle maintenance for a large municipal water plant and deal with fractional hp pumps and motors for chem feed systems.
In my experience Emerson/US electric make some of the best value motors on the market, there are more expensive units out there Baldor, Reliance etc. The offset cost of owning the more expensive ones does not justify the added cost. Meaning that if a $200 motor lasts 10 yrs and a $500 motor lasts 12 yrs your better off cost wise to use the $200 motor. The newer high efficiency motors operate alot warmer than older mid efficiency units so this becomes a hydro consumption vs. longevity issue. In my application at work I would much rather have the lower efficiency motor with big bulky windings that lasts 20 yrs than some of the newer motors out there.
Once again it justs my opinion and some electrical engineering types may disagree
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Slimchance,
The newer high efficiency motors operate alot warmer than older mid efficiency units so this becomes a hydro consumption vs. longevity issue. Â In my application at work I would much rather have the lower efficiency motor with big bulky windings that lasts 20 yrs than some of the newer motors out there.
Hi In_Canada_Eh,
Why would a high-efficiency motor run warmer than a motor with lower efficiency? Â If you had a 100% efficient motor (which doesn't exist, of course!) it wouldn't get warm at all, since all of the electrical power input would be converted to mechanical power output. Â In a high-efficiency motor, less of the input energy ishould be available to be released as waste heat.
Is it because the newer, high-efficiency motors are much smaller, and therefore spread the heat out over a much smaller area - and thus feel hotter?
Regards,
Altazi
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Is it because the newer, high-efficiency motors are much smaller, and therefore spread the heat out over a much smaller area - and thus feel hotter?
Altazi,
This is probably the case, older ( less efficient ?) motors run alot cooler then newer ( more efficient ?) motors do
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Is there any significance to the term “switch less� I heard this thrown around a lot when doing my research. Increase efficiency or just a sales pitch?
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Because this site is mostly dealers, not technicians.
The dealers will back the tubs they sell, regardless if the motors are prone to problems.
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If there is one thing I noticed that remained consistent regardless of what tub manufacturer I researched is that they all out source their pump motors, (AO Smith, Emerson, etc...). Â Since they play such an integral role in the overall enjoyment of your tub ie: hydrotherapy, noise, is there some advice on what to look for and what to stay away from? Â Is one brand more troublesome then the other? Â What do you look for to minimize the noise which was very important to me?
I would be more concerned with noise and the power of the jets when doing the wet test, not the technical info about the motors. You can't compare motors by Horse Power or frame size, the best test is the wet test. Listen to how much noise they produce when running. If you want to compare power compare gallons per minute, but I have heard from some that those numbers are not always accurate.
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gturn,
Couldn't agree more...GPM, however, can someone tell me the difference between a switch type and switchless motors?
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You're not going to get a straight answer on this question here.
Because this site is mostly dealers, not technicians.
The dealers will back the tubs they sell, regardless if the motors are prone to problems.
You know sledjunkie, you have almost nothing positive to say about the people at this site so I'm really not sure why you come here. Â The rest of the consumers here really value and appreciate the dealers here that is why we are here. Â What gives? Â Your negativity is really bringing me down. Â :'(
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Not just sales hype. Â Typical spa pump motors have a starting winding that is energized in order to start the motor rotating. Â The start winding remains energized until the motor reaches a preset minimum running speed. Â Some of the motors use a mechanical centrifugal switch to disengage the start winding - you can hear the "click" sound shortly after the motor starts up. Â Mechanical switches wear out over time. Â Failure of the starting switch in an open position can prevent the motor from starting (but it will hum). Â The starting switch can also get stuck in the closed "start" position, keeping the start winding energized even after the motor has come up to speed. Â If this happens, the start winding will quickly overheat, which is BAD for the motor. Â You may get a breaker trip if this happens, depending upon the total load. Â The switchless motors do not use a mechanical means to disengage the start winding, and should prove to be more reliable over many start-up cycles. Plus, you don't get that annoying "click" sound when the motor starts. . . ;)
Regards,
Altazi
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Because this site is mostly dealers, not technicians.
The dealers will back the tubs they sell, regardless if the motors are prone to problems.
Wow man your depressing me to sled boy!! Why all the negitivity man your bringing Brook and me down.
I see mostly consumers posting on this thread. And i am not a dealer.
I agree with Gary, seems alot of them GE's have failed compared to AO and Emerson. But they all only last for so long. A little longer than warranty usualy!!
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Who amongst us spa owners based our purchase on the brand or type of motors?
I couln't telly you anything about the motor powering my Optima's pumps, other than they are working fine.
And dealers- how often do your customers ask you about such technical things?
If you find a spa that is just right for you are you going to pass it up because there are GE motors instead of Emmerson?
Or will you buy a spa that doesn't really feel right but it's the only one available in your area with AO smith motors?
I'd think finding that exact combination might be a challenge.
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Who amongst us spa owners based our purchase on the brand or type of motors?
I couln't telly you anything about the motor powering my Optima's pumps, other than they are working fine.
And dealers- how often do your customers ask you about such technical things?
If you find a spa that is just right for you are you going to pass it up because there are GE motors instead of Emmerson? Â
Or will you buy a spa that doesn't really feel right but it's the only one available in your area with AO smith motors?
I'd think finding that exact combination might be a challenge.
Brewman,
To qoute George, our local Cal Spa Dealer here in my neck of the woods, he said "What ever you buy make sure it has a switchless motor in it!"Â Call me a sucker I suppose but as a semi educated hot tub consumer I take stuff like that seriously. Â Maybe it was irresponsible on his part but I have to believe he was trying to give me some good advice and he wasn't just blowin' smoke?? Â After I wet tested all the tubs on my top 5 list, I asked them all to remove the front panels so I could look at the mechanics. Â After all that is where all the meat and potatoes are. Â I asked lots of questions (too many I suppose), not just what colours do the tubs come in. Â When I buy a car, I like to see what's under the hood. ::)
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That comment about making sure it has switchless motors is a load of sales crap.
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Who amongst us spa owners based our purchase on the brand or type of motors?
I couln't telly you anything about the motor powering my Optima's pumps, other than they are working fine.
And dealers- how often do your customers ask you about such technical things?
If you find a spa that is just right for you are you going to pass it up because there are GE motors instead of Emmerson?
Or will you buy a spa that doesn't really feel right but it's the only one available in your area with AO smith motors?
I'd think finding that exact combination might be a challenge.
Brewman,
To qoute George, our local Cal Spa Dealer here in my neck of the woods, he said "What ever you buy make sure it has a switchless motor in it!" Call me a sucker I suppose but as a semi educated hot tub consumer I take stuff like that seriously. Maybe it was irresponsible on his part but I have to believe he was trying to give me some good advice and he wasn't just blowin' smoke?? After I wet tested all the tubs on my top 5 list, I asked them all to remove the front panels so I could look at the mechanics. After all that is where all the meat and potatoes are. I asked lots of questions (too many I suppose), not just what colours do the tubs come in. When I buy a car, I like to see what's under the hood. ::)
He said that because his brand has switchless motors, it is just a sales pitch. If next years models come out without switchless motors he would change his sales pitch real quick. If it was that important everyone would be using them. How often have you heard of a switch going out in a motor. And doesn't Cal Spa use only GE motors, and isn't GE the company that has been having a lot of problems with their motors.
That said I would have no problem buying a Cal Spa, they have good spas, they were in my top 5 list. I am not worried about the GE motor problems, I am sure they have taken care of those past problems. I agree with opening spas up and looking inside, I eliminated several spas by looking inside.
Besides you have to have a switch to turn on that switchless motor. Does moving the switch from the motor to the cabinet make the motor better, I don't know.
And, don't buy a car unless it has a Toyota engine in it. (my preference)
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I should put my previous answer in perspective. I would not use the fact that a spa has switchless motors or not to be a major deciding factor. There are SO many things that are much more important.
Regards,
Altazi
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Who amongst us spa owners based our purchase on the brand or type of motors?
I couln't telly you anything about the motor powering my Optima's pumps, other than they are working fine.
And dealers- how often do your customers ask you about such technical things?
Brewman,
I doubt it would have been a deciding factor when all was said and done, but I did ask about the pump and motor when we were shopping. I work with all variety of pumps and motors every day and I was a little concerned about who's pump was in the tub we would purchase. I also asked about the controls, ozone and PVC manufacturers. Then again I have been told I can be somewhat anal ;)
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Sledjunkie,
What gives with the attitude? Having sold (yes I'M a salesman) electric motors in the past it makes some difference on a fhp motor that has a switch or not. By design they are going to be more reliable. Other than disliking Salesman what is your expertise in life? You have a lot of opinions posted. Where did you find these? Just remember nothing happens until you sell something.
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"Whatever you do make sure it has a switchless motor in it"
This is a load of sales crap.
What don't you understand?