Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Bama on September 09, 2006, 05:39:51 pm

Title: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Bama on September 09, 2006, 05:39:51 pm
Putting in a new electrical breaker box for La spa Paradise H-2.  It is 93" x 133" and has 3 pumps @ 5 horsepower each.  Anyone know if 100 amps or 200+ amps needed?
Thanks,
Bama
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: spaman-- on September 09, 2006, 05:43:20 pm
The Paradise draws about 43 amps at the most , as with the 3rd pump on the heater is disengaged. Good luck!
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: BIGPOPPA on September 09, 2006, 05:49:42 pm
you do know that 5hp rating your talking about is brake HP right.
They are 2.5 cont HP.  To run all 3 jetpumps you need more than a 50 amp service....talk to your dealer and see............

BIGPOPPA
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Brewman on September 09, 2006, 06:55:46 pm
Are you installing this breaker panel just for the spa-  connecting it into your existing main service panel?
 Or are you installing a whole new service panel for your entire home, and are asking what the size of your new electrical service into your home needs to be with this spa?
 With what you've posted, it's impossible to tell which one it is.  

If it's a whole house panel you're asking about, you can't just install a bigger capacity panel unless you have the feeds to your home evaluated and resized if necessary.
 
If it's just a spa panel you're installing, the required breaker isn't going to be anywhere near 100 amps (which is why I'm suspecting your asking about the main service panel vs a spa box).  Find out in your documentation what sized GFI breaker is required for your spa.  A very common requirment is 50 amps.  

In any case, based on your question and the way you asked it, it's evident that you may not posess the knowledge or skills to safely do this yourself.  Get a pro out there so you don't burn down your house or worse.  

Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Reese on September 09, 2006, 06:57:38 pm
Your manual should tell you if you need a 50 or 60 amp circuit.  If you don't have it yet, ask your dealer.  As far as 100/200 amp service, there was a good discussion of the issues in the "In 'Shock' from Electrical Quote" thread.
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Vinny on September 09, 2006, 07:17:01 pm
I have an Artesian and it has 3 therapy pumps and a large circ pump and it does as spaman says - it turns off the heater if two pumps go on. I believe the most my spa draws is about 30 AMPS but it's been a while since I installed it.
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Cola on September 09, 2006, 07:20:25 pm
I'm goin' to get Vinny's test kit and I'll stay out of this one.
Steve
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: BIGPOPPA on September 09, 2006, 07:24:37 pm
Quote
I have an Artesian and it has 3 therapy pumps and a large circ pump and it does as spaman says - it turns off the heater if two pumps go on. I believe the most my spa draws is about 30 AMPS but it's been a while since I installed it.


cmon   30 amps running all 3 jetpumps?  Each jet pump is pulling at least 15 amps.....
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Vinny on September 09, 2006, 07:30:57 pm
Quote
I'm goin' to get Vinny's test kit and I'll stay out of this one.
Steve

My tub has a 4500 watt heater so it will draw less than someone elses. Like I said it's been a while but I kind of remember it being about 26 to 30 amps and it's on a 50 amp breaker, so we all know it can't excede 40 amps max  ;)! Maybe it was 36 amps and I didn't carry the 1.

What do I know anyway, I don't do this for a living! :D



Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Vinny on September 09, 2006, 07:38:59 pm
Quote
Quote
I have an Artesian and it has 3 therapy pumps and a large circ pump and it does as spaman says - it turns off the heater if two pumps go on. I believe the most my spa draws is about 30 AMPS but it's been a while since I installed it.


cmon   30 amps running all 3 jetpumps?  Each jet pump is pulling at least 15 amps.....
There are 2 6 bhp pumps and a 3 bhp pump - half them for continuous - that's a total of 7.5 hp x 750 Watts/hp = 5625/220 = 25.57 amps ... ok maybe it's not half and maybe it should be 768 watts/hp but it's close! And my heater shuts off when 2 pumps are on. 4500/220 = 20.45 + (3x750)/220 = 30.27

Does that sound about right?
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Reese on September 09, 2006, 08:03:18 pm
Quote
[Does that sound about right?
The numbers look about right, but I was surprised to read that the heater shuts down when a second pump is turned on.  At 30 amps draw on a 50amp circuit, it seems like they could toggle between the third pump and heater.

Your electric meter actually spins slower when you turn on a second pump! :)
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Vinny on September 09, 2006, 08:07:48 pm
It may and I could be wrong ... although I am geeky sometimes I just want to sit in the tub and enjoy vs wondering what will happen when I press this button.

My tub will heat to 1º above setpoint and start heating again 1º below it, now that summer is leaving I will be in the tub as the water cools down and heater kicks on ... I'll experiment!

Oh and just recently I found out which floor suctions go to which pumps!
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Reese on September 09, 2006, 08:14:53 pm
Quote
Oh and just recently I found out which floor suctions go to which pumps!
Please do not share your methodology on that experiment! ::)
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Vinny on September 09, 2006, 08:18:58 pm
Quote
Quote
Oh and just recently I found out which floor suctions go to which pumps!
Please do not share your methodology on that experiment! ::)

I'm going to share it - I have size 13 feet!  :o They get in the way of everything. I have a Dell computer at work that I ripped the front bezel off because it got in the way of my size 13's. ;D
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Chas on September 09, 2006, 08:28:03 pm
I think the important thing here is to go with the manufacturer's instructions. If they say this spa can run on 50 amps, then you can wire it that way.

 8-)
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Reese on September 09, 2006, 08:52:26 pm
Yeah, we did kind of get sidetracked there, didn't we.  I guess I thought the first few posts resulted in "asked and answered", but Vinny's foot size and use of suction fittings is a bit off-topic. :)
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Bama on September 12, 2006, 07:44:08 pm
Quote
you do know that 5hp rating your talking about is brake HP right.
They are 2.5 cont HP.  To run all 3 jetpumps you need more than a 50 amp service....talk to your dealer and see............

BIGPOPPA


Thanks BigPoppa....I misquoted, there are three 2.5 HP pumps.
My Bad.
Bama
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Bama on September 12, 2006, 07:48:51 pm
Quote
Are you installing this breaker panel just for the spa-  connecting it into your existing main service panel?
 Or are you installing a whole new service panel for your entire home, and are asking what the size of your new electrical service into your home needs to be with this spa?
 With what you've posted, it's impossible to tell which one it is.  

If it's a whole house panel you're asking about, you can't just install a bigger capacity panel unless you have the feeds to your home evaluated and resized if necessary.
 
If it's just a spa panel you're installing, the required breaker isn't going to be anywhere near 100 amps (which is why I'm suspecting your asking about the main service panel vs a spa box).  Find out in your documentation what sized GFI breaker is required for your spa.  A very common requirment is 50 amps.  

In any case, based on your question and the way you asked it, it's evident that you may not posess the knowledge or skills to safely do this yourself.  Get a pro out there so you don't burn down your house or worse.  

 
You are so right, I don't have the skills nor the desire to wire it myself.   My husband is a good handy man, however for insurance purposes we always have professionals work on our home.  I just wanted to be more educated on the subject.  
We are installing a new service box, it is the amps I was inquiring about.
Thanks for your response, I appreciate it.
Bama
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Bama on September 12, 2006, 07:54:12 pm
Quote
I think the important thing here is to go with the manufacturer's instructions. If they say this spa can run on 50 amps, then you can wire it that way.

 8-)[/quote

I think you guys are right, I'd better call the dealer to find out the recommended amps.
Bama
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Kyle on September 14, 2006, 01:30:18 am
2.5 cont 48 frame should run around 8-10 amps. If they are using 2.5 hp impellers.

They could slap 2 hp or even 1.5 hp impellers on the 2.5 hp motor and run lower amps.  I would just follow instructions and find out the flow rate in gpm for true performance. ::)
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: uncommonlytasty on September 14, 2006, 07:46:04 am
The reason that manufactures require a larger breaker then the actual current draw is because of the pumps inrush (startup) current load.  A 12 amp capacitor start motor can actually draw over 100 amps when started.  
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Bama on September 16, 2006, 03:32:06 pm
Thanks all...
I checked with dealer and my tub requires 60 amps.   Our house currently has 350 amps, so we will allocate a service box just for the tub.  Also, I want the option to shut the power off from inside the house via small box in laundry room.  I don't want to walk out in a tornado just to shut the power off to the tub.  I live in a tornado prone area with lots of lightening...yikes!

Vinny, about those big feet of yours...do they stop up the return ducts of your tub? LOL

Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Vinny on September 16, 2006, 03:52:58 pm
Quote
Vinny, about those big feet of yours...do they stop up the return ducts of your tub? LOL


Luckily the intakes got some big screens on them ...
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Altazi on September 16, 2006, 05:24:57 pm
Quote
Quote
Quote
I have an Artesian and it has 3 therapy pumps and a large circ pump and it does as spaman says - it turns off the heater if two pumps go on. I believe the most my spa draws is about 30 AMPS but it's been a while since I installed it.


cmon   30 amps running all 3 jetpumps?  Each jet pump is pulling at least 15 amps.....
There are 2 6 bhp pumps and a 3 bhp pump - half them for continuous - that's a total of 7.5 hp x 750 Watts/hp = 5625/220 = 25.57 amps ... ok maybe it's not half and maybe it should be 768 watts/hp but it's close! And my heater shuts off when 2 pumps are on. 4500/220 = 20.45 + (3x750)/220 = 30.27

Does that sound about right?
One hp = 745.7W, call it 746W.  One one hand, motors aren't 100% efficient, so they require more input power than the output power they deliver.  A reasonably high efficiency for a spa pump motor is 75%, so for 1000W input, you get 750W output; the remaining 250W is mostly waste heat.  If you are running a total of 7.5hp @ 75% efficiency, you would be looking at 7460W of electrical power, or about 32.4A @ 230VAC.  Likewise, your motors would be producing about 1.8kW of waste heat.

On the other hand, most motors aren't being run at their rated full load, so the overall current requirement is reduced.

Regards,

Altazi
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Vinny on September 16, 2006, 05:35:55 pm
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
I have an Artesian and it has 3 therapy pumps and a large circ pump and it does as spaman says - it turns off the heater if two pumps go on. I believe the most my spa draws is about 30 AMPS but it's been a while since I installed it.


cmon   30 amps running all 3 jetpumps?  Each jet pump is pulling at least 15 amps.....
There are 2 6 bhp pumps and a 3 bhp pump - half them for continuous - that's a total of 7.5 hp x 750 Watts/hp = 5625/220 = 25.57 amps ... ok maybe it's not half and maybe it should be 768 watts/hp but it's close! And my heater shuts off when 2 pumps are on. 4500/220 = 20.45 + (3x750)/220 = 30.27

Does that sound about right?
One hp = 745.7W, call it 746W.  One one hand, motors aren't 100% efficient, so they require more input power than the output power they deliver.  A reasonably high efficiency for a spa pump motor is 75%, so for 1000W input, you get 750W output; the remaining 250W is mostly waste heat.  If you are running a total of 7.5hp @ 75% efficiency, you would be looking at 7460W of electrical power, or about 32.4A @ 230VAC.  Likewise, your motors would be producing about 1.8kW of waste heat.

On the other hand, most motors aren't being run at their rated full load, so the overall current requirement is reduced.

Regards,

Altazi

I was close!

And it was more than a year ago that I measured ...
Title: Re: Amps for 3 x 5 hp pumps?
Post by: Tman122 on September 17, 2006, 05:15:51 am
Quote
Thanks all...
I checked with dealer and my tub requires 60 amps.   Our house currently has 350 amps, so we will allocate a service box just for the tub.  Also, I want the option to shut the power off from inside the house via small box in laundry room.  I don't want to walk out in a tornado just to shut the power off to the tub.  I live in a tornado prone area with lots of lightening...yikes!

Vinny, about those big feet of yours...do they stop up the return ducts of your tub? LOL


But I am sure your code is going to require a shut off in site of the tub and no closer than 5 feet. And as a service guy I prefer it to be your GFCI breaker.