Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Pastor_Mac on August 17, 2006, 08:41:19 pm
-
Greetings all,
I've narrowed my search to between a HS Envoy and D1 Chairman II.
I've owned a HS Sovereign in the past and was happy. It was sold with the house I sold to Pastor buddy. I've wet tested both above tubs. I like the motomassage on Envoy but it doesn't have wrist massage like Chaiman and the seat that does have it on Envoy I have to lean foward to reach my wrists ( very uncomfortable from back surgery). I know the HS is solid and well service backed but its lacking the jetting that feels the best in the Chairman II. My concern I'm expressing here is a couple questions.
1- I know the HS filters 100% and it appears that the Chairman II is as well so I'm opening up discussion on this- Does it filter the jets as well as the small filter pump? This is an issue to me because the Pastor is an HAIRY APE! I dont want to clog the jet pumps in intakes so filtering is a big concern to me. Does the D1 bypass filters?
2- Then to the people who own or service the Chairman II have you had any major problems? I had only one service call on my Sovereign and the was the remote on/off switch inside the tub by the lounge.
3- WHat is a fair price for the Chairman II? For Ohio area
4- Any suggestions on a topper or Gazebo that is economical since Hot tub is outdoors and on a windy deck?
Is there anythng else out there I should be comparing beside these two? I did check out Jacuzzi & Sundance, not hot on filter system on those either!
I wish HS had the jetting set up like the Chairman II!
Thanks for your replies and thoughts.
God Bless,
Pastor Mac
-
The D1 probably bypasses when the jets are on high. I wouldn't worry about it. The Hotspring "no bypass" is a bunch of hype in my opinion. Even though I think Hotspring makes a quality product, I don't understand some things about their spas, such as not filtering from the bottom, only the top. Since therapy is a big thing for you, I would pick the spa that is more comfortable, both will filter fine.
-
Well, I admire the fact that Markee didn't recommend the Marquis Epic. If therapy is a major concern, I would definitely check out the Marquis Epic as well.
What didn't you like about the Envoy jetting?" How did the Dual Moto-Massage jet feel on your back?
-
Hey I can only promote the Epic and Marquis so much :) You should check the Epic out though, it is an amazing spa especially if therapy is your main thing. There is most likely a Marquis dealer close by.
-
The D1 probably bypasses when the jets are on high. I wouldn't worry about it. The Hotspring "no bypass" is a bunch of hype in my opinion. Even though I think Hotspring makes a quality product, I don't understand some things about their spas, such as not filtering from the bottom, only the top. Since therapy is a big thing for you, I would pick the spa that is more comfortable, both will filter fine.
Well, the D1 does bypass. I still don't understand why those who don't have no-bypass think it is hype. No comments please - no need to Beat the Dead Horse. I've read more than I ever care to read on it.
As to the filtering from bottom vs. top: It is such a small body of water, all the water, even that at the bottom, will be filtered. Studies have been done on pools showing the main drains are really not necessary for full circulation. In fact, some builders are looking to discontinue use of main drains to prevent entrapment. This sounds much like the way Hot Spring does it. No suction ports in the bottom of the spa - no chance of hair entanglement. I personally have not ever heard of hair entanglement in a hot tub, but with no suction, there is no chance.
As to the Envoy, I think this is an awesome spa. It has a lot of power, neat water feature, the new stereo is great. The double Moto will be so much better than the single you had on your Sovereign.
While D1 is a decent spa, I personally think you'll be happier with Hot Spring. You already have a track record with them, so why not go that way again?
-
Why would he be happier with the HotSpring? He just said he liked the jets of the D1 better!
-
Well, I admire the fact that Markee didn't recommend the Marquis Epic. If therapy is a major concern, I would definitely check out the Marquis Epic as well.
What didn't you like about the Envoy jetting?" How did the Dual Moto-Massage jet feel on your back?
I liked the double moto-massage. But no leg or wrist jets on that seat and it floated me up and away from the jets. I didn't float away in D1. Both my wife and I have carpal tunnel so I can have wrist therapy and her in the other corner seat at same time.
The seat in the Envoy that does has palm postion mostly, for me to hit my wrist in that seat I had to lean foward which hurts my back.
Believe it or not there is no Marquis dealer close to the Football hall of Fame city! Its almost an hour away.
-
Do you think the wrist massage will be an important factor? Its probably the one feature on my tub that never gets used. Of course a small part of that is the idiotic design of that feature by Dynasty on my model. (one jet is 5" higher than the other)
-
Do you think the wrist massage will be an important factor? Its probably the one feature on my tub that never gets used. Of course a small part of that is the idiotic design of that feature by Dynasty on my model. (one jet is 5" higher than the other)
Hi There moderator :-)
The wrist is for me because both of us has hand trouble. Plus another thought is I only have to flip half of lid back to lay in lounger for back and wrist without having to switch seats. Thanks !
-
1- I know the HS filters 100% and it appears that the Chairman II is as well so I'm opening up discussion on this- Does it filter the jets as well as the small filter pump? This is an issue to me because the Pastor is an HAIRY APE! I dont want to clog the jet pumps in intakes so filtering is a big concern to me. Does the D1 bypass filters?
God Bless,
Pastor Mac
I realize that most people don't like to see the dirty truth, but here it is once again:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/b28eba1f.jpg)
No spa company filters all the water BEFORE it enters the pump, heater, and plumbing except for HotSpring.
Competitors can call it marketing or hype or whatever they choose to try and diminish it's importance, but I have yet to hear anyone logically explain why it is a disadvantage to filter out debris rather than ingest it into your spa's internal components.
The D-1 is a fine spa and if you got it, you'd probably be very happy with it.
Good luck in your decision. :)
Terminator
-
Didn't someone already ask not to Beat any Dead Horses? I will be so disappointed if this thread turns into the same ol' argument. Its getting plain dull.
-
Didn't someone already ask not to Beat any Dead Horses? I will be so disappointed if this thread turns into the same ol' argument. Its getting plain dull.
I hope it doesn't either. I am simply answering the pastor's #1 concern. He's asked for help, I'm providing it, as is my nature.
Terminator
-
If the wrist jets are your #1 concern and they don't hit you right in the HS Envoy, give the Accolade a try. It sounds like you're giving Hot Spring a solid look even though it appears the D1 caters to your highest need a little bit better.
If wrist jets are a big concern, and you still want the filtration of a Hot Spring, I would definitely recommend trying the Accolade. It comes with the no-bypass filtration, has the Tri-X filters, and is kind of a cross between the Envoy and the other upright tubs. I like it because it is one of the only spas that doesn't require a seat for the Soothing Seven. Also the armrests in its wrist-jet seat are a little less steep and they aren't as far from the back of the seat, either.
Good luck! All the tubs mentioned so far are solid in reputation and quality.
-
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/b28eba1f.jpg)
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahhahahahaha
omg, ow ow ow
i fell off my chair......
hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhaaaa
-
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahhahahahaha
omg, ow ow ow
i fell off my chair......
hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhaaaa
It's not funny. I spent a lot of time and effort making that. :'(
Terminator
-
I LOVE your picture, Term.. :D
-
I LOVE your picture, Term.. :D
Thank you, nice lady. :)
You can call me Termy.
Termy
-
OMG, can I call you Termy?
-
OMG, can I call you Termy?
I would love all the nice spa ladies on here to call me Termy. Spatech tuo, drewstar, and The Spa Fairy have called me that for years.
Termy
-
Term, Thanks for that very informative post on the no bypass filtering. Next time I find toenails, needles, beer bottles or misc things in my spa I will definitely look for a hot springs model. However since I have not found these things in my beautiful Emerald I guess I'll have to keep it a little longer!
-
It's not funny. I spent a lot of time and effort making that. :'(
Terminator
Please don't take that for anything other than what is was!!! I have never seen the naked truth displayed so eloquently!
-
I can't resist, sorry Term. I think full filtration is fine, but I would not use it as a make or break question. There are trade-offs of course, but partial filtration ensures adequate flow even in the event that the filter(s) are neglected and become clogged. Full fitration can limit the size and flow rating of the pumps. One of the reasons I always liked the Caldera Geneva better than my Envoy is because it has more flow and more power to the jets. The Geneva uses partial filtration, the Envoy has full filtration. This is an obvious trade-off. One more and I will shut up. Full filtration takes up a lot more space and in a portable spa this can be significant.
Having owned both types, anecdotally I can honestly say that there is no practical difference between the two systems in terms of water clarity, ease of maintenance, or any other.
It sounds to me like Pastor Mac would be better served by a D1 Chairman II, an excellent spa from all accounts.
Regards,
Bill
-
Bill, don't you think the Geneva is more powerful due to the larger 2.5 HP pumps? The Envoy has two 2.0 HP pumps. If the filters are clean there shouldn't be much of an issue with bogging down the system. Perhaps there is more to it.
-
No. Depends on impeller, plumbing and jets.
I love Bill S. Smart man. D-1 uses circ pump anyway. THat's 100% filtration. Bill is right water will be clean if properly maintained. Most people will have pumps on high speed for maybe 5 or 10 minutes max. So some of the water is not filtered for that 5 or 10 mintues. Plus, human hair will probably not plug up a large impeller. Circ pump on the other hand...
-
Hi Pastor,
Have you made a decision on your hot tub yet???
I think we are going to go with the D1 Diplomat the salesman told me that I could get it with a life time warranty on the tub shell... ( I hope this is not a lie, I will have to ask this on a new post)
Good luck to you,
just me
-
Competitors can call it marketing or hype or whatever they choose to try and diminish it's importance, but I have yet to hear anyone logically explain why it is a disadvantage to filter out debris rather than ingest it into your spa's internal components.
It's not that there is a disadvantage to filtering out debris rather than ingesting it into your spa's internal components...rather it comes at a high cost for, IMO, little gain other than advertising. Maintaining 5 filters is time consuming and expensive. Not being able to design a tub with more than 2 therapy pumps without adding yet more filters is a reality for HS.
Please don't take these comments as coming from an HS opponent...I like HS--I think they are very well made. I just think telling the whole story is important...cute diagrams notwithstanding... 8-)
-
I've sold, serviced and owned many of the major brands including Hotspring and D1 (I currently sell D1).
In the past I used the same annalogy that Term does to sell Hotspring however I personally have never had a brand of spas that maintains the water better than D1....
Both brands are very high quality and both manufatures have a history of taking care of customers. The hand jets are a huge plus for me as is the large foot jets. I can't take foot jets that are smaller and more piercing because I have very ticklish feet and the foot jet needs to be intense for me to even use it.
-
You seriously need to wet test a sundance spa. I switched recently from a chairman II to a sundance Cameo. The filtration is at least as good as the d1 and the jets are so much better. After dealing with the rotating jets in my D1 jamming (with tiny little pieces of grit) and not rotating all of the time i was going nuts and wanted another spa. I will also add that I now work for a dealer that carries sundance, hotspring, calspa, and viking which is what sparked the switch. I wet tested all of our wet spas and chose sundance because of the jets and filtration. Of our spas on the floor the sundance spas seem to keep the water crystal clear with the least amount of maintenance. It seems that when our customers come in to wet test the majority choose Sundance (Optimas mostly) if it is within their means and budget. While my opinion is somewhat biased it is an experienced one as I have owned the d1 (and HS for that matter, had a vanguard prior to the d1) and I have wet tested many brands and models of spas. One thing is for sure, you can't go too wrong when your choosing between the brands that you are interested in.