Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: JUST ME on August 22, 2006, 08:49:59 am
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Hi All,
Is the 2/ 4 hp better for a real good massage or will I get the same affect from the 2/ 2hp
Thanks for you time.
just me
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just me,
Don't get confused by the hp ratings on the pump, it really has more to do with the impellor and how many gallons per minute of water it can move. However ,there is a relationship between hp and water flow. Generally the higher the gpm the higher the hp and a good guess would say that 2 4hp pumps would move more water than 2 2hp pumps
hope this helps
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Pumps don't massage, jets do.
What spa are you referring to?
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The two manufacture are D1 and HS..
going to try wet test this weekend but the two companys have a big diffrence in motor size.
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hs and d1 are both great... i decided on d1 because the dealer just opened a store in my area and he bent over backwards to make a sale....
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Buying a hottub is challenging. I would say that the horsepower ratings on the motors has about as much impact on the performance of a spa as the color of the cabinet. These numbers can be very misleading. A well designed spa is a blend of many components that must work together to provide a satisfactory experience. Pumps, filters, heaters, piping, jets etc. must all be sized and tested to work well together. While the engineering can be complex, the assessment of the result is simplicity itself. Simply go to the dealer(s) and wet test the spas you are interested in. Which one feels best to you? That is the one to buy. Both D1 and HS make first class spas. Forget the technical mumbo jumbo and go try them out.
Regards,
Bill
PS. I am an engineeer
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I looked up the Chairman II on D1’s website and the Envoy on Hotspring’s site.
Quite honestly, you are pretty much comparing apples to oranges in your horsepower description. The sales person or brochure from D1 states the pumps as peak horsepower instead of continuous duty horsepower. You should always focus on the continuous rating.
This is the Chairman II’s pump specifications: 2 x 4.0 HP Pumps. The 4.0 is designated as peak horsepower, but there is a blurb that states the pump is actually 2.5 is the continuous duty horsepower.
The Envoy is a comparable unit in the Hotspring line. Its specifications are 2 x 2.0 HP continuously rated pumps or 2 x 3.9 breakdown torque horsepower.
To break it down – the Chairman, on continuous duty, has 1 additional horsepower, instead of 4 additional that you may have first thought.
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Buying a hottub is challenging. I would say that the horsepower ratings on the motors has about as much impact on the performance of a spa as the color of the cabinet. These numbers can be very misleading. A well designed spa is a blend of many components that must work together to provide a satisfactory experience. Pumps, filters, heaters, piping, jets etc. must all be sized and tested to work well together. While the engineering can be complex, the assessment of the result is simplicity itself. Simply go to the dealer(s) and wet test the spas you are interested in. Which one feels best to you? That is the one to buy. Both D1 and HS make first class spas. Forget the technical mumbo jumbo and go try them out.
Regards,
Bill
PS. I am an engineeer
Very good advice that all spa shoppers should take.
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Buying a hottub is challenging. I would say that the horsepower ratings on the motors has about as much impact on the performance of a spa as the color of the cabinet. These numbers can be very misleading. A well designed spa is a blend of many components that must work together to provide a satisfactory experience. Pumps, filters, heaters, piping, jets etc. must all be sized and tested to work well together. While the engineering can be complex, the assessment of the result is simplicity itself. Simply go to the dealer(s) and wet test the spas you are interested in. Which one feels best to you? That is the one to buy. Both D1 and HS make first class spas. Forget the technical mumbo jumbo and go try them out.
Regards,
Bill
PS. I am an engineeer
Very good advice. I would just like to add that 8 HP in one tub may feel great to it's owner but 3 HP in another may feel better for that tubs owner than the 8HP his neighbor has. I have experienced this and I am sure others have.
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Just to concur what some other stated, HP of a pump plays no bearing in the performance of the spa. Higher HP does not always equate to more water flow either.
The HP thing is a game some/most manufactures use to sell spas because they build crap and having nothing real to talk about.
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The HP thing is a game some/most manufactures use to sell spas because they build crap and having nothing real to talk about.
Objection, Your Honor! The stated quote is innuendo and generalized and provides no value to the casual reader.
Objection sustained. Please remove said quote from the record.
8-)
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Thanks for all the replies,,,
I have wet test set for Saterdayat both places, ( to bad I cant take my MGD's with me ;D)
now D1 said that the uv is better than cd, said that uv runs all the time and wont require as much stuff to be put in and that it wont harm the cover and head rests as fast.
Thanks again for everyones time.
I wonder whats harder finding a mate or buying a hot tub ;)
but thats just me
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I wonder whats harder finding a mate or buying a hot tub ;)
Easy answer to that one, its buying a hot tub ;D
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I wonder whats harder finding a mate or buying a hot tub ;)
Easy answer to that one, its buying a hot tub ;D
Just for the weekend? Or for life?
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haahhahaha!
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Best to tell the hp by the FEEL of the jets. Anybody can call any pump any hp they want.
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[/quote]
Very good advice. I would just like to add that 8 HP in one tub may feel great to it's owner but 3 HP in another may feel better for that tubs owner than the 8HP his neighbor has. I have experienced this and I am sure others have.
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That is because many manfacturers don't tell you the real hp. Just because someone says they have a 5 hp pump does not mean it will have more pressure than a 2.5 hp. That is because nobody in this industry has a "TRUE" 5hp pump. It is a game. Some of the more reputable manufacuturers will only quote continuous duty. This is the only real way to guage how much power the spa may have. And even at that, you can't tell without getting in the spa. Just keep in mind that pool builders typically use no more than 2hp to run an entire swimming pool - and that even varies.
I agree with the advice to wet test. That is the only way you can really know how the pressure works for you.
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Just Me,
"D1 said that the uv is better than cd, said that uv runs all the time and wont require as much stuff to be put in and that it wont harm the cover and head rests as fast."
I am beginning to detect a trend here. It sounds like the D1 dealer that you are talking to might not be on the up and up. I hope I am wrong, but first the bogus horsepower argument and now the equally specious ozonator argument. The type of ozonator used in a spa is not a big deal. There are trade-offs of both types, but as has been recently discussed in this forum by people who are very knowledgable, it is not really clear if an ozonator is all that effective anyway. I certainly would not base a buying decision on what kind of ozonator is installed when comparing two spas.
You are going to have to try very hard not to let anybody talk you into anything. Soak in both spas and listen to your body. Which one feels better, fits you better, seems to have the nicer/easier to use controls (for you) and so on? A rough rule of thumb with a fast talking sales person is that the faster they talk, the faster you should walk. On the other hand, a good sales person will ask you a lot of questions and be helpful in fitting your needs within the context of the available line of products. Also, when the good sales person asks you questions, does he/she then listen to your responses before speaking again? If the answer is yes, then you have found a good one and you can relax a wee bit. In the end, though, listen to your own body during the wet test.
One other sneaky trick to watch out for is the dealer setting up a wet test for a prospect, but adjusting the water temperature so high that the customer can't stand to be in the tub long enough to figure out how it feels and works. Call in advance and tell the dealer you want the water temp set at about 98 degrees. This can be quickly and easily adjusted up if you find that it is not to your liking, but if it is set at 104 degrees, you are not as likely to get a good wet test.
Regards,
Bill
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Thanks for the info Bill
just me
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I have to take exception on some of the comments on ozone. I find ozone is very effective. I had a friend whose check valve got clogged. His spa got cloudy and a bit smelly. We replaced the check valve and got the ozone working and now his spa is staying crystal clear.
I know my spa stays crystal clear all the time. With my circ pump in my Hot Spring, my ozone stays on 24/7.
As to UV being better than CD. NOT TRUE!! First, CD puts out much more ozone than UV. UV hardly puts out enough to be effective (that may be the reason some people think ozone doesn't work). The UV bulb will go out. Its not a matter of if, but when. Then you get to spend $85-$100 replacing it.
It sounds like this dealer you are talking with either doesn't know what he's talking about or is actually misleading you. I won't say which since I don't know him.
I'd be wary of continuing with that dealer and go to one whom you can trust.
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As to UV being better than CD. NOT TRUE!! First, CD puts out much more ozone than UV. UV hardly puts out enough to be effective (that may be the reason some people think ozone doesn't work).
More [size=16]NOT TRUE[/size]! What are you basing this on???? Lets look at tow ozonators from jed engineering.
The Jed 003 CD ozonator .. output? 0.05 grams per hour
The Jed Bubble Gun II UV ozonator .. output ? 0.05 grams per hour
The truth is that CD puts out a more consistant amount of ozone over the lift of the chip (roughly a year in many) over UV (roughly 10,000 hours of use). Additionally, there are different sizes of ozonators (duh) that put out different amounts of ozone (kinda like different HP's of pumps?). While the JED 003 puts out .05 grams per hour, I've got an old UV unit somewhere back in storage rated at something like 2 grams per hour.
Perhaps the ladies are right.......... Size matters ;D
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I
As to UV being better than CD. NOT TRUE!! First, CD puts out much more ozone than UV. UV hardly puts out enough to be effective (that may be the reason some people think ozone doesn't work). The UV bulb will go out. Its not a matter of if, but when. Then you get to spend $85-$100 replacing it.
It sounds like this dealer you are talking with either doesn't know what he's talking about or is actually misleading you. I won't say which since I don't know him.
I'd be wary of continuing with that dealer and go to one whom you can trust.
With all due respect I think you might want to slow down yourself regarding your input on ozone....Today's UV types should not be confused with those of days gone by....As the good Dr. has pointed out as well as "New England's Oldest Hot Springs Dealer himself.....UV types of today that use a plasma cell instead of a ballast are every bit as effective with the same out put of a CD type and a strong case can be made for other added benefits that you get with them....I am not touting one as better but I know from speaking to one if not the perhaps the largest makers of ozone units that they feel the UV type's are better and that in their testing they found them to be stronger as well as quieter with much less interference with other electronics (magnetic fields) when made properly .....
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I wonder whats harder finding a mate or buying a hot tub ;)
Easy answer to that one, its buying a hot tub ;D
Is it easier to find a mate once you have the hot tub???? 8-)
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Thanks all for the great input.
I was going to get a tub in a week or two, but now I might have to get the house rewired. My house is 50 years old and most of the wire in here is the aluminum wire and I have read that I cant use that on the hot tub I was still going to run the feed to the tub with the copper but I dont know what kind of a voltage drop there would be with the aluminum. S**T
just me
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I wonder whats harder finding a mate or buying a hot tub ;)
Easy answer to that one, its buying a hot tub ;D
Is it easier to find a mate once you have the hot tub???? 8-)
Yes, but only if it has lots of horsepower and CD ozone.
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i also would like to know if one pump or two is better for a hottub
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The HP thing is a game some/most manufactures use to sell spas because they build crap and having nothing real to talk about.
Objection, Your Honor! The stated quote is innuendo and generalized and provides no value to the casual reader.
Objection sustained. Please remove said quote from the record.
8-)
Overruled, it was meant to generalized and as far as value to the reader, the HP rating on the motors has no value to the potential customer.
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More reasons not to pay attention to the "numbers games"... A given pump will require a certain horsepower to move a certain amount of water at a certain RPM. If you removed a 2.5 HP electric motor and replaced it with a 300 horsepower gasoline engine and ran it at the same RPM as the motor (i.e. 3,450 RPM), there would be zero difference in water flow. On the other hand, if you replaced it with a 1 HP motor, you would exceed the full load rating of the motor causing it to overheat and burn up.
However, if you installed, say, a true 10 HP electric motor and a gearbox that doubled the RPM of the original motor, one or more of the following would happen:
1. The pump would self-destruct. Broken impellers, busted housing, blown seals.
2. The excess water pressure would probably tear the skin off your body if you got too close to the jets.
3. A hose, pipe, jet, joint, or clamp would come loose.
It's all how the system as a whole is designed. I, too, am an engineer, although I deal more with air and gas flow. Some of the same principles apply, except water isn't compressible ;D