Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Gomboman on April 16, 2006, 02:16:25 am
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Chas broke the news about this development but it's buried in another thread. I thought it would be nice to start a new thread.
Costco online is now selling the Highlife for $5,699. This seems like a good price point for someone wanting a great name brand spa at a reasonable price. The Highlife is setup to run on 110V but can be upgraded to 220V through your local dealer. The warrantee isn't quite the same but I believe it will be handled through your local Hot Spring dealer. It's much better than any other curb side delivered spa that I've heard of. The dealers can chime in here for specifics.
I don't have anything to do with Hot Spring--other than being a proud Envoy owner. I just wanted to pass this option on to folks who can't justify spending 10K on a new spa. To be fair, I know there are other brands in this price range that also deserve consideration.
This will bring new meaning to the words "Costco Spa".
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11112486&whse=&topnav=&browse=&s=1
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I always liked the "Highlife" model. I liked the original one better than the current version. ( They retired the original model and then brought back the name years later as a deeper variation of the sovereign model.)
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Brand name spa not sold through a dealer. Very interesting.
The good news is that you can probably work something out with the local Hot Springs dealer for service issues.
Is it more important to have high quality spa, or strong relationship with local dealer? I've always felt that you can pay a service technician at the local store.
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It is not being marketed as a Hot Spring Spa. Rather, it is from the makers of Hot Spring Spa, just as Tiger River Spas are from the makers of Hot Spring.
Warranty is 1 year parts and labor, 5 years on shell. Service will be done by Hot Spring dealers who opt in.
Truly a new venture for Costco.com, Watkins Mfg. and the dealer network. New paradigm for on line spas.
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re: Costco now selling HotSpring spas
I am sure HotSpring spa dealers are
really going to be "thrilled" about this. :-/
Yeah about like when I was shopping for a piano last year and told the
piano store that Costco was now selling the exact same piano for 30% less!
I ended up buying from the piano store but Costco
allowed me to beat them down on price and save
some additional money.
I am sure that same thing will happen
with these Costco spas made by the exact
same company as HotSpring.
Costco and Sam's are hard to beat on price, but ya wonder if you would get
as much help from a dealer as if you had bought the product from them?
I am a huge fan of Sam's & Costco but there are certain things I would not buy
from the mega-stores because of issues that may arise down the line as far as servicing.
It's tempting, but be careful.
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re: Costco now selling HotSpring spas
I am sure HotSpring spa dealers are
really going to be "thrilled" about this. :-/
Yeah about like when I was shopping for a piano last year and told the
piano store that Costco was now selling the exact same piano for 30% less!
I ended up buying from the piano store but Costco
allowed me to beat them down on price and save
some additional money.
I am sure that same thing will happen
with these Costco HotSpring spas.
Costco and Sam's are hard to beat on price, but ya wonder if you would get
as much help from a dealer as if you had bought the product from them?
I am a huge fan of Sam's & Costco but there are certain things I would not buy
from the mega-stores because of issues that may arise down the line as far as servicing.
It's tempting, but be careful.
Repeat:
It is not a Hot Spring Spa.
You cannot get the same spa at Costco.com from a dealer.
You cannot get a Hot Spring Spa from Costco.com.
Most dealers are happy with the program. After all, we drank the kool aid. ;D
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re: "Reapeat...It is not a Hot Spring Spa"
I thought you said in your post the spa Costco is selling
is made by the exact same maker of the HotSpring spas?
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It's a discontinued model which makes this a clever arrangement.
re: "Reapeat...It is not a Hot Spring Spa"
I thought you said in your post the spa Coscto is selling
is made by the exact same maker of the HotSpring spas?
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re: "Reapeat...It is not a Hot Spring Spa"
I thought you said in your post the spa Coscto is selling
is made by the exact same maker of the HotSpring spas?
You are both right: it is made by HotSpring, but is a model which is ONLY available through Costco.com - notice I didn't say IN COSTCO, BTW. Only Costco.com
And the spa comes with a dealer - 80% of the dealers in the US ahve signed on to help with the delivery and warranty service of this special spa.
Now, if I wanted to show this tub on my floor, I could order one online just like everyone else.
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Still this has to be scary for Hot Spring dealers. Hot Springs will now be associated with a big box wholesaler and not a small independent spa store. If I where a dealer I would not want to go along with this unless I was forced. By the way the Costco Home store in Phoenix is selling a full line of Cal spas including the Rock faced one in the post on this page.
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re:"Still this has to be scary for Hot Spring dealers"
marks.....I have never heard of "Costco Home Store"
I don't think they arrived in Dallas yet.
Can't wait to see one of those.
Did you know Costco is selling caskets too?
(http://www.costco.com/Images/Content/Product/810224L.jpg)
(http://www.costco.com/Images/Common/UserControls/top_costco_logo.gif)
In God's Care Casket
by Universal
Standard Shipping
18 Gauge Steel
$924.99
Item # 810224
3 Business Day Shipping & Handling included
(Over night shipping available)
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11008303&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=
ps: I heard people are "dying" to get one of these!
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Repeat:
It is not a Hot Spring Spa.
You cannot get the same spa at Costco.com from a dealer.
You cannot get a Hot Spring Spa from Costco.com.
Most dealers are happy with the program. After all, we drank the kool aid. ;D
EVERYONE that has sold Watkins spas has banked on the phrase "It's made on the same assembly line as a Hot Spring, by the same worker, doing the same task, so you can be comfortable in buying a ....Tiger River or Hot Spot or whichever. The fact that it isnt being called a Hot Spring doesnt really matter. We all know it is, just minus the warranty. Watkins adds alot of money to the dealer cost to pay for that warranty. Marketing a model through Costco for less but dropping the warranty is a wash in my book.
If it walks like a duck... ;)
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It's a matter of branding. It is made by the maker' of Hot Spring. It is supported by Hot Spring, and 80% of the dealers, as Chas posted. It's similar to washing machines. There are only a few manufacturers, but many more brands.
Bring 'im on, I say.
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If I were a HS dealer I'd figure out a way to make servicing these tubs a profitable endeavor. Seems I've heard something about a "truck" fee.
Costco & Sam's usually make a "deal" with a manufacturer and then somehow stop selling that product. In my world, we call these folks "prospects." If I were a HS dealer, I'd figure out a way to make money servicing these tubs and convince them to buy their next tub from me (upgrade..no doubt).
A solid dealer should not feel threatened by Costco.
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Zep,
Costco Home is a test store only in Phoenix and Kirkland Washington. They sell nice furniture, pool tables, fancy flat pannel TV's and outdoor furniture. It is really well done and has great prices. They also sell the Cal Spa line of outdoor grills and outdoor kitchens. Anything you buy can be returned to any Costco store.
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Repeat:
It is not a Hot Spring Spa.
You cannot get the same spa at Costco.com from a dealer.
You cannot get a Hot Spring Spa from Costco.com.
Most dealers are happy with the program. After all, we drank the kool aid. ;D
Moto-Massage
IQ2020 board
100% no-bypass filtration
Wavemaster pump
SilentFlo 5000 Circ pump
Same control panel
Same jets
This isn't like a Caldera or Tiger River which are different spas from the same manufacturer.
That my friends is a Hot Spring. Because it's a discontinued shell and they aren't sold by the dealer network doesn't make it anything less.
Hate to break it to you but that is a Hot Spring, and nothing but a Hot Spring.
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I'd be pissed if I was a HotSpring dealer.
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I'd be pissed if I was a HotSpring dealer.
Why?
Terminator
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Not true, at least not from my end. We have Caldera spas along side the Jacuzzi product. Any customer interested in Caldera will be purchasing that spa on it's own merits, NOT based on the fact that it is made on the same assembly line as HS. The only time that comes up, is when a customer says it's between HS, and Caldera. At which point I inform them that Watkins manufacturing is the owner of both lines of hot tubs, however places a 30% longer warranty on the Caldera spa. I think Watkins offering this spa through Costo is a VERY bad idea. Regardless if the local dealer is performing the delivery and instalation at a rate of $700 paid to the dealer from Watkins. I'm guessing this whole thing will be short lived and viewed as a minor mishap. Like I said before, only time will bear this out.
EVERYONE that has sold Watkins spas has banked on the phrase "It's made on the same assembly line as a Hot Spring, by the same worker, doing the same task, so you can be comfortable in buying a
If it walks like a duck... ;)
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OR, it will be the first step in eliminating the local dealerships. Since hot tubs are rapidly becoming appliance grade in reliability, they will no longer need the local dealer to take care of things. Sell all spas through Sears, Costco, Sams Club, Kmart, wall mart, Lowes, Home Depot, Menards, etc...All you need is a few appliance repair technicians in place to perform warranty service...bye bye local dealer! Is that a good enough reason to be pissed Term?
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I'm pissed.
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Not true, at least not from my end. We have Caldera spas along side the Jacuzzi product. Any customer interested in Caldera will be purchasing that spa on it's own merits, NOT based on the fact that it is made on the same assembly line as HS. The only time that comes up, is when a customer says it's between HS, and Caldera. At which point I inform them that Watkins manufacturing is the owner of both lines of hot tubs, however places a 30% longer warranty on the Caldera spa. I think Watkins offering this spa through Costo is a VERY bad idea. Regardless if the local dealer is performing the delivery and instalation at a rate of $700 paid to the dealer from Watkins. I'm guessing this whole thing will be short lived and viewed as a minor mishap. Like I said before, only time will bear this out.
I wasn't refering to Caldera in my response. It does stand alone better than TR or Hot Spot. However, unless things have changed, I didnt think the Caldera came down the same assemble line. The last time I was there, Caldera had it's own little corner for plumbing after the shells come back from Mexico. Whereas, TR does actually travel down the semi automated assemble line.
I do agree though, that it shouldnt be a big deal unless they see some glimmer of response then maybe they'll bring back the ever popular "Summit" . Maybe they will offer that one only in copper w/ espresso cabinet. ;D
(Or maybe they will just be Dunn. ;) )
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I wasn't refering to Caldera in my response. It does stand alone better than TR or Hot Spot. However, unless things have changed, I didnt think the Caldera came down the same assemble line. The last time I was there, Caldera had it's own little corner for plumbing after the shells come back from Mexico. Whereas, TR does actually travel down the semi automated assemble line.
I do agree though, that it shouldnt be a big deal unless they see some glimmer of response then maybe they'll bring back the ever popular "Summit" . Maybe they will offer that one only in copper w/ espresso cabinet. ;D
(Or maybe they will just be Dunn. ;) )
:P
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Is that a good enough reason to be pissed Term?
I'm not TO'd (not that it'd matter anyway as I'm just a salesman), but it doesn't upset the owner of our company at all. He's actually very excited about it.
There is a much bigger plan in the works here. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that several big name spa companies are very much in danger of disappearing from the industry within the next 2 or 3 years. When I read about some of our competitors raising prices $1500-2000 from one model year to the next, that's not a good sign.
The constant turnover of brands at the local dealerships here in East Texas is astonishing. Just in the last 6 years, there have been 34 brand changes between my 5 competitors locally. That's not a good sign.
I've heard reports of competing spa companies switching over to cheaper forms of insulation because they can't afford the closed cell foam. That's not a good sign.
Like it or not, the economy is global and electronic. The industry leaders are taking steps to insure their continued dominance in the market. If the Costco situation gets you stirred up, wait until you see what's coming.
Terminator
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re: they will no longer need the local dealer to take care of things. Sell all spas through Sears, Costco, Sams Club, Kmart, wall mart, Lowes, Home Depot, Menards, etc
I was at a brand new super walmart center yesterday and they had a whole tub section in their garden department.
They had the typical looking low end couple of tubs but to my surprise they had some really nice looking tubs as well.
I was going to stop and talk to the sales rep to get more information but he was busy writing up orders.
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Not true, at least not from my end. We have Caldera spas along side the Jacuzzi product. Any customer interested in Caldera will be purchasing that spa on it's own merits, NOT based on the fact that it is made on the same assembly line as HS. The only time that comes up, is when a customer says it's between HS, and Caldera. At which point I inform them that Watkins manufacturing is the owner of both lines of hot tubs, however places a 30% longer warranty on the Caldera spa.
Caldera does not walk down the same assembly line. Actually, for all intensive puposes it is built in a seperate 100,000 etsimated sq ft facility as opposed to HS nearly 500,000 estimated sq ft. 30% longer warranty?? The 10 year structure vs. 7 on the HS? What about HS having a 5 year cabinet as opposed to 3 on the Caldera. The warranty on both spas is virtually identical, word for word.
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Being that I am the competition.......If I followed up with a customer and found out that they put a deposit on a lovely new HS Sovereign for $7000, I'd be inclined to tell them to check out Costco where they could get essentially the same tub for $5700. The local dealer has a very good chance of loosing the deal to Costco or looking like they are gouging( In which case, I'd be happy to find them a tub ;D)
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Being that I am the competition.......If I followed up with a customer and found out that they put a deposit on a lovely new HS Sovereign for $7000, I'd be inclined to tell them to check out Costco where they could get essentially the same tub for $5700. The local dealer has a very good chance of loosing the deal to Costco or looking like they are gouging( In which case, I'd be happy to find them a tub ;D)
Smaller pump, no waterfall, no color options on shell or ext, standard blue led vs. multi colore led lights, no 220 sub-panel, no ozone system, no stainless steel jet fittings, cheeper cover lifter, 1 year equipment warranty vs. 5, but essentially the same spa. ;D
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That's why I said "essentially" ;) But the seed of doubt has been planted and you may not get their ear to explain all the differences.
If they opted for the Highlife I'd be happy to sell them an ozonator ;D
Oh, and I don't think the Wellspring qualifies as a waterfall ;)
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Oh, and I don't think the Wellspring qualifies as a waterfall ;)
Neither do I. ;D
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re: "you may not get their ear to explain all the differences"
BINGO!
But maybe in some cases the greater exposure at Costco type places
will send customers that were not thinking of a spa to do more investigating which
in turn may cause people to arrive at dealerships that may not have in the past.
If tubs become more commonplace by the greater exposure at walmart/sams/costco
it would have to help dealers indirectly.....don't ya think?
Heck if for nothing else but repairs and warranty work.
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This is at Costco.com ONLY. You have to looking for a tub on their site to find one, and then you'll find a dozen with only one being a HotSpring.
The traffic that these newly interested tub buyers will generate at the dealers, will be at dealers of all brands not just HS dealers. Remember ths isn't a HS tub ;)
Why not take orders online and funnel the business through the dealer network instead of trying to bypass the dealer network? (Thank You for your order Mr. Doe, your local dealer will contact you to set up delivery.)
I used to work in the personal lines insurance industry and this smells familiar to me. When the Mfg.(or carrier) realizes that they don't need the dealers(agents) as much as they thought and the profits are through the roof(dealer/agent mark-up now stays in the Mfg./carrier pockets) you will soon see "service centers" and fewer and fewer dealers. Think AAA in the insurance biz for a preview of what's likely to come.
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Looks like they are referring tech questions directly to spa companies.
http://www.costco.com/Common/Search.aspx?whse=&topnav=&search=spa&N=0&Ntt=spa&cm_re=1-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11115142&whse=&topnav=&browse=&s=1
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Why not take orders online and funnel the business through the dealer network instead of trying to bypass the dealer network? (Thank You for your order Mr. Doe, your local dealer will contact you to set up delivery.)
Uh, bingo. That's exactly what's happening, except that the tub isn't part of the regular HotSpring line, and doesn't bear the HS logo.
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Uh, bingo. That's exactly what's happening, except that the tub isn't part of the regular HotSpring line, and doesn't bear the HS logo.
Unless HS is sending you $3000 profit per tub, then that is not what's happening. I'm hoping for the sake of your business that you profit more than $700 per tub. I guess I wasn't clear in what I was trying to get across, my bad.
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Unless HS is sending you $3000 profit per tub, then that is not what's happening. I'm hoping for the sake of your business that you profit more than $700 per tub. I guess I wasn't clear in what I was trying to get across, my bad.
Obviously, Watkins is not compensating us the same as what we make when we sell a spa. However, we also haven't marketed or sold to that customer.
My understanding is that Costco takes a smaller margin than specialty retailers (up to 14%) and Watkins is also taking a smaller margin on the Costco spa (so they tell us).
Grat deal for Costco. All they have to do is put it on their site. Customer clicks and enters credit card #. Costco passed info to Watkins, who pass it on to dealer. Costco never touches product. Watkins ships to dealer or customer. Watkins invoices Costco. Costco pays Watkins. Watkins pays dealer.
Everyone is happy...we hope.
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This is a very smart marketing ploy by HS IMO. Sell a "HS" spa without the HS warranty, Costco gets some profit, the dealer gets some money, HS Sells a bazzillion of them and then [glb]BAM[/glb] you have tubs that need replacement parts and their not covered under a warranty situation.
If they have HS parts, they are HS tubs reguardless of the name. Some of us (me) got a great tub with a lesser warranty and paid less than the premium.
From a technical standpoint, these discontinued spas are no longer discontinued, they are now in production. If a dealer has a good business, this might not affect them, especially if there's no Costco around but a weak HS business will go out of business and in an urban area they may put most HS dealers out of business.
When you think of how many customers a dealer has and how many people are on these type of forums (very few IMO) and how many of the people on these forums write in about their big box store tub compared to the rest of us here - Watkins is going to make a killing. Then they'll make a killing in ___ (fill in the blank) years as the components fail and need replacement, unlike the other manufacturers of the big box store tub, Watkins will have the parts on hand to repair their tub. It's quite possible that Watkins may replace their "lower end" HS line to not compete with Costco, have their dealers sell the higher end HS line.
People are going to take "makers of HS" and equate it to HS.
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Costco.com now has 1 model.
Delaers have 8-12 Hot Spring (depends how we classfy Classic series), 3 Tiger River, 3 Solanas and 4 Hot Spots. This program should not put anyone.
I believe that with this product, most people still will want to touch and see the spa. I predict Watkins will not put more than 3 spas on line and they will never be identical to what dealers sell.
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re: If a dealer has a good business, this might not affect them, especially if there's no Costco around but a weak HS business will go out of business and in an urban area they may put most HS dealers out of business
Why would it matter if there was a Costco "in the area", aren't these being sold on Costco.com?
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This is at Costco.com ONLY. You have to looking for a tub on their site to find one, and then you'll find a dozen with only one being a HotSpring.
The traffic that these newly interested tub buyers will generate at the dealers, will be at dealers of all brands not just HS dealers. Remember ths isn't a HS tub ;)
Why not take orders online and funnel the business through the dealer network instead of trying to bypass the dealer network? (Thank You for your order Mr. Doe, your local dealer will contact you to set up delivery.)
Funnel the traffic. ;)
Uh, bingo. That's exactly what's happening, except that the tub isn't part of the regular HotSpring line, and doesn't bear the HS logo.
NOT part of the HS line. ;) LOL ;D It just has all the same components, parts and pieces, comes from the same manufacturing address, made by the same people, using a retired model, and you are going to tell us it is NOT A HS SPA. ::) What have they done to your common sense? Whatever did they put in that kool-aide now or was the room filled with smoke??? ???
Obviously, Watkins is not compensating us the same as what we make when we sell a spa. However, we also haven't marketed or sold to that customer.
My understanding is that Costco takes a smaller margin than specialty retailers (up to 14%) and Watkins is also taking a smaller margin on the Costco spa (so they tell us).
Grat deal for Costco. All they have to do is put it on their site. Customer clicks and enters credit card #. Costco passed info to Watkins, who pass it on to dealer. Costco never touches product. Watkins ships to dealer or customer. Watkins invoices Costco. Costco pays Watkins. Watkins pays dealer. Everyone is happy...we hope.
THEN, The dealer sets up a site inspection $50, charges $150 + for placement, $50 to install the cover lifter, (cheaper version, i.e. opportunity to upgrade) charges the customer for ALL needs recommending Baqua, Di-chlor etc., upgrades to Ozone $595, charges a service fee for each trip $75 and has the opportunity to upgrade the purchase. I can see where the dealer will easily pick up another $1,000 to 1,500 from the transaction and dosen’t have to advertise to attract, dosen’t have to sell it, “upgrade” parts after 1 year, and maybe they will even deliver one of the other 8 or 12 different models or even a Sovereign .
Costco.com now has 1 model.
Delaers have 8-12 Hot Spring (depends how we classfy Classic series), 3 Tiger River, 3 Solanas and 4 Hot Spots. This program should not put anyone.
I believe that with this product, most people still will want to touch and see the spa. I predict Watkins will not put more than 3 spas on line and they will never be identical to what dealers sell.
Just like all the Appliance dealers like Highland and Fretter did with “different model numbers” before they all crashed and burned fighting over price and competition.
I think this is a stroke of genius for all of us.
This is a very smart marketing ploy by HS IMO. Sell a "HS" spa without the HS warranty, Costco gets some profit, the dealer gets some money, HS Sells a bazzillion of them and then [glb]BAM[/glb] you have tubs that need replacement parts and their not covered under a warranty situation.
If they have HS parts, they are HS tubs reguardless of the name. Some of us (me) got a great tub with a lesser warranty and paid less than the premium.
As a matter of fact, Costco shoppers could even come in and wet test the Sovereign which is just like the Costco unit before they make their purchase decision. ;) ::) ;D
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My logic (and it may be flawed) is that people who are familiar with Costco probably won't order one since they can't easily return it if they don't live close enough. Costco is supposed to have a great return policy ... I don't know since I don't shop Costco.
As far as dealers closing up - dealers do, even HS dealers. Having 50 tubs is great but not when people want the $20000 spa for $5000. The market is demanding it and the manufacturers are trying to sell it. The average uneducated (in hot tubs) consumer sees something and thinks all are equal. Tubs do sell at HD, Walmart and Costco because of the entry point price especially when a name brand is attached to it.
Will dealers close tommorrow - NO, will Watkins stop supporting dealers tommorrow -NO but I would imagine as their CPA's get involved, crunch numbers and realize how much money they make from Costco (if it flies and I think it will) - they'll be pushing their dealers for more. Now look at the parts chain, everything that breaks is billable - the dealer isn't selling, they're repairing. When I was shopping for a tub my local HS dealer was adding more techs on because of their workload due to another dealer losing a dealership ... they're obviously not Maytags! :D
At what point do HS dealers become HS repair centers. People are going to buy their supplies at costco or HD or on-line so a dealer won't make money there either. Remember you're delivering no one is browsing your store AND the person thinks all tubs and chemicals are created equal. Mom and Pop stores are going by the wayside here in America due to greed and cost cutting.
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we signed up to deliver and service in CT. I think it's a good thing!
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This has the potential to be good or real bad. Alot depends on how Watkins handles it. John Deere, Cub Cadet among others, have come to the realization that they are going to have to offer a lower priced product with their name association at the big box stores or lose huge sales. However, I would never purchase a mower, TV, hottub or any product that will require service from Lowes, Wal-mart, Costco or any big box store. I perfer to deal with a local dealer that not only sales a product that is of better quality but offers service and a better product selection, than just one or two price point products. I am also perared to pay a higher price for this value.
This will offer the customer, who is only driven only by price, the chance to purchase a product manufactured by a premium line such as HotSprings but is not their main line. Hopefully, it will lead them to consider upgrading and stoppong by yhe local dealer or become more familiar with hottubs in general.
Watkins must protect their dealers or both sides lose. The best way in my opinion is to let the dealer deliver the tubs and receive a percentage of the sales price. They would also service the product and hopefully, get the customers chemical and part sales.
The down side. Murray mowers sold more mowers each year at Wal-mart but ended up a bankrupt company.
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re: Murray mowers sold more mowers each year at Wal-mart but ended up a bankrupt company.
I have heard Walmart really really really beats their vendors down on price.
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Muther fing DITTO DITTO DITTO! On all counts DITTO!
My logic (and it may be flawed) is that people who are familiar with Costco probably won't order one since they can't easily return it if they don't live close enough. Costco is supposed to have a great return policy ... I don't know since I don't shop Costco.
As far as dealers closing up - dealers do, even HS dealers. Having 50 tubs is great but not when people want the $20000 spa for $5000. The market is demanding it and the manufacturers are trying to sell it. The average uneducated (in hot tubs) consumer sees something and thinks all are equal. Tubs do sell at HD, Walmart and Costco because of the entry point price especially when a name brand is attached to it.
Will dealers close tommorrow - NO, will Watkins stop supporting dealers tommorrow -NO but I would imagine as their CPA's get involved, crunch numbers and realize how much money they make from Costco (if it flies and I think it will) - they'll be pushing their dealers for more. Now look at the parts chain, everything that breaks is billable - the dealer isn't selling, they're repairing. When I was shopping for a tub my local HS dealer was adding more techs on because of their workload due to another dealer losing a dealership ... they're obviously not Maytags! :D
At what point do HS dealers become HS repair centers. People are going to buy their supplies at costco or HD or on-line so a dealer won't make money there either. Remember you're delivering no one is browsing your store AND the person thinks all tubs and chemicals are created equal. Mom and Pop stores are going by the wayside here in America due to greed and cost cutting.
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re: Murray mowers sold more mowers each year at Wal-mart but ended up a bankrupt company.
I have heard Walmart really really really beats their vendors down on price.
I can personally attest to that. A good example was Sunbeam Blenders. Well known, but not a dominating force. Walmart forced them to sell a top of line blender to them below cost so they could have it as a day after Thanksgiving loss leader. What you don't want to do that? I guess you don't want to sell to Walmart!
Where they really beat their vendors down is where they private label things and they are made by more than one company. Walmart tells company A and B that the other will produce them cheaper and they will buy more from them. The public doesn't see the difference unless you can read bar codes.
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OR, it will be the first step in eliminating the local dealerships. Since hot tubs are rapidly becoming appliance grade in reliability, they will no longer need the local dealer to take care of things. Sell all spas through Sears, Costco, Sams Club, Kmart, wall mart, Lowes, Home Depot, Menards, etc...All you need is a few appliance repair technicians in place to perform warranty service...bye bye local dealer! Is that a good enough reason to be pissed Term?
I'd be really leary of this setup as far as customer service goes. I've had my HS Vista for less than two years now and I've already had the auxiliary control panel replaced twice, one diverter valve replaced, a new grommet put on the water feature valve, and a jet replaced. I called my dealer and all was taken care of pronto. I'm kind of scared as to what will happen when I cross the five year mark though.
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It should be the same procedure as now only instead of "OK sir, you're all set". It will be "OK sir, you're all set, that'll be $300."
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However, we also haven't marketed or sold to that customer.
Watkins is also taking a smaller margin on the Costco spa (so they tell us).
If you advertise at all you HAVE marketed to that customer!! You probably pitched them a Sovereign, but you're right you DIDN'T sell them!
Watkins is taking a BIGGER margin.....Theirs plus the one that was intended for you!!
I understand that HS didn't consult with you before doing this and that you didn't have a choice, but to think this will benefit the dealer network is a reach. HS has some fantastic dealers with HS exclusive showrooms. I guess the exclusivity was only one way. HS is what they are because of their dealers, and this looks like a slap in the face to me. I respect the product and especially the dealers that I've come into contact with(in life as well as on this board). I feel for you and truely hope the benefits they are promising come to fuition.
Peace out, Much Love
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Just part of a much bigger plan. I'm sure all the other major spa companies are working on 5 and 10 year plans as well that their dealers may or may not be aware of OR PART OF. ;D
It's capitalism at work.
Beats the alternatives.
Terminator
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Just part of a much bigger plan. I'm sure all the other major spa companies are working on 5 and 10 year plans as well that their dealers may or may not be aware of.
It's capitalism at work.
Beats the alternatives.
Terminator
Depends where you are on the food chain.
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Depends where you are on the food chain.
And if you've made preparations for a rainy day.
That's where our SeaMonkey brand comes in to play.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/c1d09617.jpg)
Noah Middleman sez:
"Hell, don't pay retail! Buy 'em duhrect from de factry! We tain't gonna be unnersold!"
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You said taint ;D
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Well it aint yer hiney and it aint yer va&!ney....and I just want to keep this at the top for a while. You know, Part of the BIGGER PLAN!
You said taint ;D
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re: I've had my Hot Springs Vista for less than two years now and I've already had the auxiliary control panel replaced twice, one diverter valve replaced, a new grommet put on the water feature valve, and a jet replaced.
Whoa! :o
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All piddlin' things that have been identified, corrected, and will be replaced. Not to worry. :)
Terminator
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re: I've had my Hot Springs Vista for less than two years now and I've already had the auxiliary control panel replaced twice, one diverter valve replaced, a new grommet put on the water feature valve, and a jet replaced.
Whoa! :o
As I said earlier ... they ain't Maytags ... but then again neither are Maytags anymore. They breakdown almost as much as HS spas! ;) ;D
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700,000 and counting.
I wonder who's in second place? I believe it goes something like this:
1. HotSpring Envoy
2. HotSpring Sovereign
3. HotSpring Vanguard
4. Sundance/Jacuzzi
5. HotSpring Jetsetter
6. Not sure, it really drops off from here on out.
Terminator ;D :) :o :-[ :-*
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;D ;D ;D ;D
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I went through this a few years ago with Vermont Castings...
They put a lower end line into Home Depot and told us that it would not even compete with us dealers.
I can't tell you how many times a customer that I sold on the quality of VC bought a cheaper one from Depot and said "yeah it was a little differant, didn't have as many features but it was a lot cheaper and hey it was a Vermont Casting after all! You really sold us on their quality!"
It's is a battle that I have fought for almost 3 years and this year they even cut our margin by 10% I'm going to drop the line and sell against them from here on out.
The shell design for that "Highlife" looks surprisingly like the Soverign that was thier top seller for so many years.
HotSpring made their name by making a simple, quality tub with good backing...when the competative race started the main line of HotSpring got pretty pricey while the Tiger River came in as the price point "HotSpring".
My guess is that if the word gets out to the general public that dealers will have a hard time maintaining their numbers out of their stores on the other models.
I don't think most dealers will feel the shock for about a year and by then it will be to late....
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Hotspring got its first real kick start in early 80's with their FIRST mass merchant program. We were apart of that program with the two Home Centers my family owned. In 89' they canned the program and forced us to open a seperate store. They said we'd sell more. They were right.
Say what you will, it's more market share. Everyone guns for #1.
Will it be good? Time will tell. There's only a handful of States where Costco sells most of the spas.
The spa is only as good as the dealer or outfit you buy from. I feel for Anorac, but it's a dealer issue. Maybe they need to send their techs to the service school I'm sending mine to next week in Cali.
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I'm guessing you signed up to be a delivery service for the CostCo. Hot Spring. Good luck with that $700 credit you can appply to future parts purchases. Sorry, I think it's a bad move any way you look at it. Between the lines in your post YOU say as much.
Hotspring got its first real kick start in early 80's with their FIRST mass merchant program. We were apart of that program with the two Home Centers my family owned. In 89' they canned the program and forced us to open a seperate store. They said we'd sell more. They were right.
Say what you will, it's more market share. Everyone guns for #1.
Will it be good? Time will tell. There's only a handful of States where Costco sells most of the spas.
The spa is only as good as the dealer or outfit you buy from. I feel for Anorac, but it's a dealer issue. Maybe they need to send their techs to the service school I'm sending mine to next week in Cali.
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Wisocki is right, there is a message between these lines...
Hotspring got its first real kick start in early 80's with their FIRST mass merchant program. We were apart of that program with the two Home Centers my family owned. In 89' they canned the program and forced us to open a seperate store. They said we'd sell more. They were right
They forced the issue then and the "family owned" business's are fewer today as the "bigger" sellers are the "way of the future" But, The dealer will always be needed to please.
.....Say what you will, it's more market share. Everyone guns for #1.
Will it be good? Time will tell. There's only a handful of States where Costco sells most of the spas.
The spa is only as good as the dealer or outfit you buy from. I feel for Anorac, but it's a dealer issue. Maybe they need to send their techs to the service school I'm sending mine to next week in Cali.
Who wants to be #1, when there can only be ONE. We all want to be GOOD.
Is this a sign of things to come afters the '80's and the '90's. Small business and Family business are deeply imbedded in this industry and this bypasses both "small" and "family" in the name of MORE business.
Can you possibly please all of those who will come to you with issues. They may be few and infrequent at first, and maybe not.
IF Anoroc bought from the internet, maybe he wouldn't have the problem he has, without recourse.
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I'm wondering if Costco is the test market for Masco. Remember they have a ton of stuff in HD and probably at Lowes and who knows who else.
Masco manufactures Delta Faucets, Mills Pride cabinets and more. Here's their link: http://www.masco.com/our_companies/index.html
Maybe Costco sells "makers of HS" but when will HD sell "makers of Caldera".
Stuart said it best with his Vermont Castings story. Anyone who thinks that corporate America (especially huge corporate America) cares about anybody is mistaken.
I bought my Delta faucet from HD, bought Mills Pride cabinets because they looked the same as the local supply house's Kraft Made cabinets (which HD sells too) at a fraction of the cost. ($100 linear ft vs $550 linear ft). I do buy my floors from a floor store only because I don't like what big box has to offer.
If it were me, I wouldn't embrace this as a great thing. Yes, you might make money on the service end but I probably would be looking for another line to sell and kick HS out of my dealership.
Remember Unions came into power because of what Mr. CEO did to the worker ... this is a modern day version.
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Vinny, Kraftmaid is also a MASCO product. They are a huge company and I'l bet that they are behind pushing Watkins products to Costco and who knows where else.
My take is either like Stuart has found out, people will associate the name with the product and say so what if I don't have as long a warranty, I can save enough buying at Costco to buy another tub in a couple of years (if I need or want to) OR they could associate the Costco offerings with the other lower end generic tubs that Walmart and Lowes and HD offer and that would pull the Hot Springs name down into that group. If you didn't know all that you do about hot tubs (so much I learned here) wouldn't you be inclined to take a chance on a Costco tub? I probably would have because of the association with the Hot Springs name.
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I was going to buy one from HD until I started researhing and realize that they aren't the same tubs. A friend of mine has a friend who bougt a HD tub and it cost them over $100 a month to run 4 years ago.
I knew Kraft Maid is a Masco company, as is another "high end" cabinet maker. Most people know nothing about what they buy, they don't research or care to know the details. I go to HD or Lowes and see a John Deere' lawn tractor and think 'WOW, it's a John Deere.
I agree 100% with everything you said!
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So I am not going to comment on my monthly cost for my tub ::) I would be happy with $100.00 :-/
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Watkins MFG:
Nearly 900 dealers
50+ countries
50,000 spas sold every year.
Logically, would you believe that Watkins would put there entire dealer network at risk with a hasty business decision ??? All the Monday morning Quarterbacks need to just relax, and let the "Machine", ie: Watkins, do it's thing. Everyone saying wait for this to happen, and wait for that to happen....Yeah, I'm still waiting to see JA take down Watkins for the past 6 years. ;D
It won't affect me either way. Florida is not one of the 10 states that generate 80% of the business that Costco Online spa sales come from. 8)
As dealer speaking to dealer: If the presence of a HS product at "Costco Online" will effect me the way some of you are claiming, then due to HS being in direct competition with everyone of you, we are all at risk. :o
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I don't know this for a fact, but I bet this decision came from MASCO and probably was not particularly well recieved by Watkins. That is usually what happens. Someone at the top who decides to take a chance or who has a different vision in marketing makes this kind of decision. OR it could have been tied to the marketing of another unrelated MASCO product through Costco and somehow the spa business became part of the deal.
I just don't know why they want to mess with success...I could understand better if HS wasn't already at the top :-/
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I preface this with I don't know either, but how do you know they are messing with success? There has to be some sort of evolution for any business to continue competing with what's out there.
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I have no way of knowing either about the master plan of HS or more importantly Masco. The CEO of HS DOES answer to the CEO of Masco and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong.
As far as destroying a dealer network, stupider decisions have been made by CEO's ... Enron for instance. If anyone thinks that the Masco Corp cares one bit about it's HS dealers - your wrong. Heck big corporations don't even care about their own employees - goodby pensions, 2% raises and paying more for benefits while the CEO's enjoy who knows what.
It's all about how much money they can suck out of people's pockets. 50,000 tubs a year is great BUT 50,000 tubs a year without a warranty is even better and if they can have one of their own techs repair it - no profit sharing.
The US Auto Worker is down and out because of corporate greed - move plants down to Mexico, increase profits and blame the worker. A $35 per hour worker gets the shaft due to a $200 per week worker takes his or her place ... how many cars does that person buy?
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And I guess I look at it from an association perspective.
I associate the name Hot Springs with quality and the lion share of the spa market. When someone asks me about my tub, I will tell them I think it is the best, but there are also HS, Artesian, Sundance..etc. I wouldn't say go to Walmart or Lowes because you can do just as well. But I could say go to Costco and pick up a Hot Springs, take a chance that the same quality that has made it #1 in the industry was built into the tub that you will pay $$$$less for. Just like what Stuart said about the wood stoves. Just like I may buy a Kenmore dishwasher knowing that this year Whirlpool manufactured it for Sears and it is less expensive than the similar Whirlpool product. I am talking about consumer perception and the gadzillions of folks that don't research what they buy. My neighbor is looking for a tub for therapy. He is not a big spender, he is a farmer who has a lot of physical pain. I would feel confortable telling him to try the Costco spa because it is affordable and the company that makes it is the world's biggest, but he won't be paying top dollar.
If on the other hand, a consumer looks at the costco tub and says I need a bigger tub, he may go look at a HD dealer (or any other for that matter) or assume that the bigger tub at Costco will be on the same quality line as the HS offering.
I guess I am just giving you an Idea of how I think as a consumer. We all know how difficult the decisioin on which hot tub buy can be.
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As a HotSpring salesman, I do not like the idea of selling the Highlife over the internet. I don't mind losing a sale to Sundance, D-1 and Marquis (my only true competition). That is gonna happen. Losing a sale because I am competing with my own brand is a mess. HotSprings is a great spa and probably one of the "easiest" leisure items to sell. Buying a Watkins tub really is a no-brainer. Watkins is dropping the ball on this one. This spa will sell extremely well. In the near future I can see them selling the whole Watkins discontinued line, Classic-D, Landmark, Siberian, etc.. I hope my company refuses to be an authorized dealer.
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I don't think anyone can go to Costco and pick up the tub.
Isn't only being sold via Costco's internet site? All deliveries are made to the house, and I thought they would point you to a dealer if you needed service, no?
Dingberry Jim rambled how if a costco was next to a HS dealer, the dealer would wither. But I was under the impression that the tubs wouldn't even be in the store?
I would think that HS would consider selling direct via the net, but I would think this might violate the dealers agreement, So HS is using Costco's (A Masco partner) internet and inverntory centers to sell without violating the dealers agreement....
?
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I just came back from Sam's and they are sellling the HS.
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Maybe the dealers need to let Watkins and more importantly MASCO know what they are thinking. Everyone needs some measure of job security and the type of business investment that a spa dealer is obligated to make has to be huge. Seriously, look at the changes that have occurred on MASCO board. Is there a new key player who has a different business philosophy. Now is the time to speak up!
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I just came back from Sam's and they are sellling the HS.
Oops, I meant ham sandwhich :-*
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I just came back from Sam's and they are sellling the HS.
Having a promotion in there parking lot, or they are selling HS spas inside? And if so what models? How much? Did you speak to any sales people? Etc...
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Having a promotion in there parking lot, or they are selling HS spas inside? And if so what models? How much? Did you speak to any sales people? Etc...
Hey, I was just joking...just trying to keep things lively.
I am pretty sure if SAMS was selling the spas they wouldn't test market the program in my hometown. ;D
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Hey, I was just joking...just trying to keep things lively.
I am pretty sure if SAMS was selling the spas they wouldn't test market the program in my hometown. ;D
The ;D ;D ;D didn't show up after your statement, so I was just wondering. I have seen outdoor promos take place in parking lots such as Sams, BJ's, Costco, Walmart,, Etc...
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I have no idea how it's going to play out. If it works, great, if it doesn't, that's life. We'll try something else.
The world's a changing and always will be. I'm sure that some folks love the idea and some folks hate it. You just can't please everyone, but you can't remain stagnant and be competitive. I'd be willing to bet the other major brands are scheming away with their own ideas that may or may not involve the dealers. We'll see.
99% of the people in the world don't own a spa, so there are a lot of potential customers out there. When a potential one stops by, I always ask them what they've heard about HotSpring Spas. They either reply "I've heard they're the best" or "I don't know anything about spas". Most people around here have never heard of Sundance, Marquis, Dimension 1, or Artesian because there hasn't been a local dealer for several years.
The spa industry has grown leaps and bounds, but it is a loooonnngggg way from being tapped out. I think the Costcoalition is simply another way to get the word out about the industry in general. Looks like a smart play all the way around.
In the meantime, I'll just come to work everyday and do my job. And conversate with you fine folks when I can. :)
Terminator
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If Watkins wants to sell the Highlife, GREAT! Let me, a Watkins trained salesman, sell it! I would love to have the Highlife in my arsenal. It is a great spa!
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I have no idea how it's going to play out. If it works, great, if it doesn't, that's life. We'll try something else.
The world's a changing and always will be. I'm sure that some folks love the idea and some folks hate it. You just can't please everyone, but you can't remain stagnant and be competitive. I'd be willing to bet the other major brands are scheming away with their own ideas that may or may not involve the dealers. We'll see.
99% of the people in the world don't own a spa, so there are a lot of potential customers out there. When a potential one stops by, I always ask them what they've heard about HotSpring Spas. They either reply "I've heard they're the best" or "I don't know anything about spas". Most people around here have never heard of Sundance, Marquis, Dimension 1, or Artesian because there hasn't been a local dealer for several years.
The spa industry has grown leaps and bounds, but it is a loooonnngggg way from being tapped out. I think the Costcoalition is simply another way to get the word out about the industry in general. Looks like a smart play all the way around.
In the meantime, I'll just come to work everyday and do my job. And conversate with you fine folks when I can. :)
Terminator
I was told the industry was in a recession?
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I think you guys should target the housing industry. I could imagine a beautiful hot tub on a new patio as a real perk for new home sales...It's hot and ready to go...just sign on the dotted line...Paired with a good realestate agent, you could be selling with little effort..and maybe opening your marketing forum to folks just house shopping who get a better idea of how nice a hot tub could look any place. ;)
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I think it's time for the HS dealers to get together, listen to Bob Marley and smoke a splief ...
... UNION ... UNION ... UNION ... UNION
Attenion K-mart shoppers there's a blue lite special in the seasonal aisle for discounted HS spas. ;D ;D ;) ;D ;D
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I think it's time for the HS dealers to get together, listen to Bob Marley and smoke a splief ...
... UNION ... UNION ... UNION ... UNION
Attenion K-mart shoppers there's a blue lite special in the seasonal aisle for discounted HS spas. ;D ;D ;) ;D ;D
LMAO ;D
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I was told the industry was in a recession?
Well, I ain't no economical guroo, but I see dark times ahead for the industry. We're puttering along like we have been for the last 20 years. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, sometimes it's great.
Our company (East Texas Spa) is financially sound enough to weather just about any storm, thank goodness. I'd hate to see all of our local competitor's disappear, but I wouldn't cry myself to sleep at night either. They're all swimming pool dealers anyway and do hot tubs as a sideline.
BTW, Masterspa just set up a huge tent in the mall parking lot over in Tyler with about 30 spas. We were going to set up across the street, but we don't have enough spas to show. The truck coming in Monday is already sold out and we've got half another one filled, so it doesn't look like we're going to be going head to head with them. I was going to do one of my fact finding editorials, but now I'll probably just go fishing in the river.
Terminator
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Builders talk to us all the time about getting a deal on HotSpring Spas. We have worked out great incentives for them based on units sold, however, no one has followed through. If I am a builder, the Costco, deal is perfect!
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Maybe the dealers need to let Watkins and more importantly MASCO know what they are thinking.
This will be interesting to see how it works out but the dissenters in this thread don't seem to be the Hot Springs dealers so maybe they have made their voices heard already if 80% have signed on and 20% haven't.
Some will wonder why they'd make such a bold move in their position while others may say you can't rest on your laurels.
I still think it gets back to where will these sales be taken from. If 1000 people buy this Costco.com spa this year you have to wonder what those people would have gotten instead:
- How many would have bought another internet spa from Costco.com (or some other on-line spa)?
- How many would have bought from a big box store like Home Depot, Lowes, Costco or maybe some bargain spa dealer?
- How many would have bought from a Hot Springs store?
- How many would have bought from one of their main competing dealers like Sundance, Marquis, etc.?
Time will tell.
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Well, I ain't no economical guroo, but I see dark times ahead for the industry. We're puttering along like we have been for the last 20 years. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, sometimes it's great.
Our company (East Texas Spa) is financially sound enough to weather just about any storm, thank goodness. I'd hate to see all of our local competitor's disappear, but I wouldn't cry myself to sleep at night either. They're all swimming pool dealers anyway and do hot tubs as a sideline.
BTW, Masterspa just set up a huge tent in the mall parking lot over in Tyler with about 30 spas. We were going to set up across the street, but we don't have enough spas to show. The truck coming in Monday is already sold out and we've got half another one filled, so it doesn't look like we're going to be going head to head with them. I was going to do one of my fact finding editorials, but now I'll probably just go fishing in the river.
Terminator
Well, I was also told that the economy was in trouble and it was up and down for the past 4 years, which contradricts all the reports I've read. (Despite Katrina, 9/11 and raising gas prices.). I guess I was given bad information from a know it all.
;)
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A super high end know it all, to be sure.
Terminator
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I am sure Watkins has made a deal where HotSpring dealers get a cut of any that are sold and probably get a cut as far as shipping if a Costco sold spa is placed on the truck with their spa order. Funny how the salesman gets left out.
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I think the economy is really in trouble by the way things are going. Housing has flattened out and in some markets are receeding. People who bought housing with "special financing" are in trouble of losing their homes.
Gas prices, oil prices, electricity and natural gas prices are going up in an alarming rate... soon food and clothing prices will be going up because of this.
People pay more for their benefits which are being cut down.
Little by little these take their toll and the quality of life goes down. As far as the economy, who's buying a luxury item when you need to eat? How may people can afford a $400,000 or more house? How does a young couple starting out afford a $1300/month rent and save. How do people with children take them to the doctors and pay the copay + whatever their deductable is?
Yep, we're in for some hard times ...
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I think the economy is really in trouble by the way things are going. Housing has flattened out and in some markets are receeding. People who bought housing with "special financing" are in trouble of losing their homes.
Gas prices, oil prices, electricity and natural gas prices are going up in an alarming rate... soon food and clothing prices will be going up because of this.
People pay more for their benefits which are being cut down.
Little by little these take their toll and the quality of life goes down. As far as the economy, who's buying a luxury item when you need to eat? How may people can afford a $400,000 or more house? How does a young couple starting out afford a $1300/month rent and save. How do people with children take them to the doctors and pay the copay + whatever their deductable is?
Yep, we're in for some hard times ...
I think housing and fuel are definatley major players, and the future will be uncertain, as it always is, I was reflecting on a statment that said the industry, as well as the economy was up and down, and in trouble for the past 4 years, and I just shook my head and wondered what medication he was on.
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Anything that is a unknown, you can easily be uncertain about, thats for sure!
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I think this is a very real awakening....I am old enough to clearly remember the last energy crunch in the early '80's. Interest rates were so high that if you could afford a home starting out, it wasn't a very big and not many frills. As energy costs dropped and interest rates dropped, we became pigs and just used and used like there would be no end to available energy (oil). Now the cycle is returning....High fuel costs, slower housing market, higher interest rates...that's all it is a cycle but we will now have to incorporate the global competition....this is depressing me..think I'll go out and catch some frogs
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(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2223/chart6hf.gif)
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/analytical/fyi/2006/032306fyi.html
And here's a decent article on the state of the economy. It's not all roses, and there are siginificant concerns, but overall we've been doing ok:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060420/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy]
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(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/anaroc/chart6hf.gif)
Drewstar- the chart was upside down. Now, as you cansee the economy has taken quite a dip.
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A super high end dip. ;D
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http://www.careerbuilder.com/tv/Default.aspx?sc_cmp2=JS_HP_TV&cbRecursionCnt=2&cbsid=06bbe6c708584c45bd842e1a4d21b2da-198864265-R3-1
It's been known to happen before.
Terminator
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Hopefully, the Costco experiment fails miserably and the employee who came up with the herky jerky idea gets fired.
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For the time being.
I don't think anyone can go to Costco and pick up the tub.
Isn't only being sold via Costco's internet site?
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99% of people use 70% of their brains 10% of the time and the rest use 5% 100% of the time and 99% of all statistics are made up ON THE SPOT. ;)
99% of the people in the world don't own a spa, so there are a lot of potential customers out there.
Terminator
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Well, I was also told that the economy was in trouble and it was up and down for the past 4 years, ;)
The industry was down around 15%, while HS was only down about 1%. Another way of saying it is this: HS gained almost a 14% market share.
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I just came back from Sam's and they are sellling the HS.
They are selling what? In the store or the parking lot?
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They are selling what? In the store or the parking lot?
He was kidding. It was a Ham Sandwich. :)
Terminator
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I'm a little more optimistic.
You have to think of things on a % basis. Afterall, my grandmother thought she'd see folks paying $40,000 for a house (not to mention a car).
If anything, our economy has proved resilient.
I think the economy is really in trouble by the way things are going. Housing has flattened out and in some markets are receeding. People who bought housing with "special financing" are in trouble of losing their homes.
Gas prices, oil prices, electricity and natural gas prices are going up in an alarming rate... soon food and clothing prices will be going up because of this.
People pay more for their benefits which are being cut down.
Little by little these take their toll and the quality of life goes down. As far as the economy, who's buying a luxury item when you need to eat? How may people can afford a $400,000 or more house? How does a young couple starting out afford a $1300/month rent and save. How do people with children take them to the doctors and pay the copay + whatever their deductable is?
Yep, we're in for some hard times ...
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Resilient, hell, growing!The national unemployment rate dropped to 4.7. It's lowest in 4.5 yrs. Statistics provided by the U.S. Dept. of Labor. Not used by permission, hmm could I go to jail for that?
I'm a little more optimistic.
You have to think of things on a % basis. Afterall, my grandmother thought she'd see folks paying $40,000 for a house (not to mention a car).
If anything, our economy has proved resilient.
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Resilient, hell, growing!The national unemployment rate dropped to 4.7. It's lowest in 4.5 yrs. Statistics provided by the U.S. Dept. of Labor. Not used by permission, hmm could I go to jail for that?
They use armed forces figures when they have to. Also, they include things like people close to minimum wage ... how many people can afford things IF they make minimum wage. That was the big joke when Quail was VP ... he walked into McD's and proclaimed 'look, there are jobs available'. Yep, for $5.35 an hour!
Here in NJ there was a huge housing market that started in 2000, which is when I sold and bought my houses. I found one that I paid $200K for that's worth about $380K (or at least was) and I sold a 2 bedroom townhouse at a loss for $129K and it was selling for $295K last year.
There was a report on MSN Money about people buying houses with special financing deals to be able to pay for the house that are expiring soon. They got interest rates as low as 1% (teaser rates) and paid a lot of money for the house. Now their houses are starting to be worth less and the thought is if they fall below a certain threshold, they'll have to pony up some more money AND as the teaser rate expires, their mortgage will be going up tremendously ($800 per month).
Auto plants are closing up all over ... these people may not be able to find jobs.
The economy may be robust in some areas but it definately is flatening out or getting worse in others.
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Thats why HotSpring selling the Highlife over the internet is a terrible idea!
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I just received a transmission from the Mother Ship that dealer compliance is now over 90%. That is all.
Terminator
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I just received a transmission from the Mother Ship that dealer compliance is now over 90%. That is all.
Terminator
Sound kind of like a cult :o
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Truer words never spoken.
I just received a transmission from the Mother Ship
Terminator
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I just received a transmission from the Mother Ship that dealer compliance is now over 90%. That is all.
Terminator
East Tx is the front man and he keeps stirring the stew with funnies, but when he made a not so nice remark about his step-sister brand, Caldera, he announced that he got word from the "mothership" that he shouldno't do that.. They apparently have a direct line access and are undoubtdedly experiencing some feedback.
As he said, "there is a bigger plan", but, to use his own words, he is"just a salesman", he doesn't really grasp or understand the ramifications of what is going on and only wants to make a joke out of it. After all is said and done, he can go sell pick up trucks any time he wants to because he is "just a salesman", but in the meantime he is a devout, kool-aide drinking, HS salesman that communicates with the "mothership" and guards the front gate to the cult complex. ;)
Anoroc, you are begining to understand. Now you should tell all HS the people that are trying to help you to send out one of those Highlife units "made by the maker of Hot Springs Spas", pay the difference between the $4,900 and the $5,699, and you should be happy in your new HS spa. If you have the least bit of a problem, ask Costco to refund your money and go shopping again.
The offer that you laid out does not seem to compare too well to the pricing represented by Costco, when you look at the differences for more than 9K. Compare the Highlife to the Sovereign, determine the ratio of difference and apply that farmula to their offer. ;)
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As he said, "there is a bigger plan", but, to use his own words, he is"just a salesman", he doesn't really grasp or understand the ramifications of what is going on and only wants to make a joke out of it.
[size=18]
Oh Yeah?!! [/size][/color]
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This is all hypothetical as well as estimations:
2006 Highlife spa from Costco Online:
$5,700.00
2006 Hotspring Sovereign from local dealer:
$7,700.00 (Estimate depending on location)
$2,000.00 Difference. Why?
All estimates:
Waterfall: $300.00
Stainless jet fittings: $300.00
More filtraton: $40.00
More Color Options: $400.00 (Personal prefference)
Larger pump: $300.00
CD Ozone System: $400.00
Better Cover Lift: $200.00
4 more YR of warranty(Including labor): $1,000-$1500
Proffesional Delivery incl.: $200-$300
Etc...Etc...Etc...
Looks to have at least $3000.00 worth of differences(from a manufacturing standpoint).
Price goudging(spell)? [glb]I DON'T THINK SO![/glb] ;)
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So you are saying that since you've signed up to deliver these hot tubs, you are going to do it in an unprofessional maner?
Proffesional Delivery incl.: $200-$300
;)
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pkud,
All of the things you mention are potentially justifications for price differences however the average Joe won't care. Here is my opinion of what most people will think
2006 Hotspring Sovereign from loc
Waterfall: $300.00
Stainless jet fittings: $300.00
More Color Options: $400.00 (Personal prefference)
"Cool but not worth the dramatic price difference...After all it's the same spa for the most part and I'm saving a ton of money for the same quality so who cares about the bling..."
Better Cover Lift: $200.00
Larger pump: $300.00
CD Ozone System: $400.00
"I can always add these things later on if I need to after I pay for the spa....."[/i]
More filtraton: $40.00
4 more YR of warranty(Including labor): $1,000-$1500
Proffesional Delivery incl.: $200-$300
Etc...Etc...Etc...
"I'm gonna buy one of those better filters just as soon as I get the spa home."
"The guy at the dealership said HotSpring makes very reliable spas so I don't mind less warranty for the price. Besides, he also told me that these where pretty easy to work on."
"I can buy a case of beer and get 6 of my friends to help put it in the back yard...how hard can it be, they said they do it with 2 guys!?"[/i]
Looks to have at least $3000.00 worth of differences(from a manufacturing standpoint).
Price goudging(spell)? [glb]I DON'T THINK SO![/glb] ;)
I wouldn't call it price gouging, I would call it crippling the dealer.
IMO, knowing first hand some of the issues, questions and concerns customers have I think that having a good dealer on your side is worth most of that price difference regardless of the other things but most customers don't understand that until they own a spa for a few years.
What HotSpring has effectively done is to make the salesman’s job a whole lot harder by now getting them to justify their own product upgrades against a mega store with "deal" written all over it while making that salesperson believe that it's for their good.
How much commission do you feel the salespeople at the local dealers will receive when the dealer gets their $700 $1000? I promise that over 60% of the people that buy that Costco spa will take up an hour or two of "selling" time from these salespeople before buying at Costco.
If I were a HotSpring dealer I would personally be concerned over the issues that will arise here plus if the dealership gets involved, get paid and the customer decides to take the spa back to costco under their return policy does the dealer get charged back for their part?
If I where a HotSprings salesperson I would be even more concerned over the extra work I would have to do to help these people justify their "box store" purchase for no commision.
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pkud,
All of the things you mention are potentially justifications for price differences however the average Joe won't care. Here is my opinion of what most people will think
"Cool but not worth the dramatic price difference...After all it's the same spa for the most part and I'm saving a ton of money for the same quality so who cares about the bling..."
"I can always add these things later on if I need to after I pay for the spa....."[/i]
"I'm gonna buy one of those better filters just as soon as I get the spa home."
"The guy at the dealership said HotSpring makes very reliable spas so I don't mind less warranty for the price. Besides, he also told me that these where pretty easy to work on."
"I can buy a case of beer and get 6 of my friends to help put it in the back yard...how hard can it be, they said they do it with 2 guys!?"[/i]
I wouldn't call it price gouging, I would call it crippling the dealer.
IMO, knowing first hand some of the issues, questions and concerns customers have I think that having a good dealer on your side is worth most of that price difference regardless of the other things but most customers don't understand that until they own a spa for a few years.
What HotSpring has effectively done is to make the salesman’s job a whole lot harder by now getting them to justify their own product upgrades against a mega store with "deal" written all over it while making that salesperson believe that it's for their good.
How much commission do you feel the salespeople at the local dealers will receive when the dealer gets their $700 $1000? I promise that over 60% of the people that buy that Costco spa will take up an hour or two of "selling" time from these salespeople before buying at Costco.
If I were a HotSpring dealer I would personally be concerned over the issues that will arise here plus if the dealership gets involved, get paid and the customer decides to take the spa back to costco under their return policy does the dealer get charged back for their part?
If I where a HotSprings salesperson I would be even more concerned over the extra work I would have to do to help these people justify their "box store" purchase for no commision.
What Stuart ... although I didn't come up with it!
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I promise that over 60% of the people that buy that Costco spa will take up an hour or two of "selling" time from these salespeople before buying at Costco.
.
If we get a shot at 60% of the people buying from Costco, and if we, as salespeople, are as good as we think we are, then we will convert some of them to our products. I have the Classic Sovereign, which is much closer to the Highlife, that I can come much closer to in price with more features (ozone, better lift) and better warranty. I can move them up and down in price, size, features, etc.
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So you are saying that since you've signed up to deliver these hot tubs, you are going to do it in an unprofessional maner?
LMFAO ;D ;D ;D
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Delivery is curbside. Customer has to pay extra for backyard. Then they have to pay more for unwrapping the spa and removal of packaging. Pay more for installation of lifter.
All of the above included with our customers' professional delivery.
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What HotSpring has effectively done is to make the salesman’s job a whole lot harder by now getting them to justify their own product upgrades against a mega store with "deal" written all over it while making that salesperson believe that it's for their good.
It doesn't make their job any harder then it was before selling against brand X,Y,or Z. I as a HS dealer and you as a Marquis and D1 dealer no first hand that justifying price differences is a 100% certainty when on the sales floor. Heck, justifying price differences between the same product happens everyday in my neck of to woods. If a salesperson is not strong enough to handle those types of situations then they are at fault, not Watkins. ;)
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So you are saying that since you've signed up to deliver these hot tubs, you are going to do it in an unprofessional maner?
1) I never said I signed up for anything...Yet
2) Your comment just relays that you are naive to the fact of how the whole process plays out.
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Yeah, your right. Sheesh, I guess I'll just tuck tail and run.[size=16]NOT![/size]
1) I never said I signed up for anything...Yet
2) Your comment just relays that you are naive to the fact of how the whole process plays out.
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Yeah, your right. Sheesh, I guess I'll just tuck tail and run.[size=16]NOT![/size]
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/shabba34/gump.jpg)
;)
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he doesn't really grasp or understand the ramifications of what is going on
Uh huh, I'm just down here mindin' the turnip patch. :)
Turmipator
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Has this achieved Dead Horse Status yet?
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I don't know but I can promise you I will not buy my dead horse from costco. Support your local economy
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What is the over/under?
Has this achieved Dead Horse Status yet?
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Wow, I had no idea this thread would have so many people split. I actually thought it was a clever idea to sell the Highlife at Costco. Here's my take.
First of all, I don't think that most of us here would buy a spa at Costco because we are informed consumers. I personally think most of us would have done the research and realized that we would be better off going through a local dealer. The price difference isn't really that much different compared to a new Sovereign with all the added features.
IMO, most of the people who are going to buy this spa are the folks who wouldn't normally use a dealer anyway. These are the people who don't understand the spa business. These are people who think all spas are the same and would have bought a low end garage spa or something from an outlet store anyway. At least this group of consumers would add some profit to a local HS dealer. The dealer would still be better off in this scenario compared to someone buying junk spa from Home Depot. I don't think the HS dealer would lose too many of their regular customers with this arrangement.
I'm just a consumer. If I owned a dealership perhaps I would have a different opinion. I think it's a good idea.
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I actually thought it was a clever idea to sell the Highlife at Costco.
Gombo, don't let everyone fool you....so did they (they just can't admit it on a public forum). :)
Who's squealing the loudest on this subject? HotSpring dealers OR the "guys who sell something different"?
Every time HS gets another leg up, Chicken Little Syndrome flares up and the competition starts trying to tell us what a terrible mistake we've made and the sky is falling. I appreciate their concern for my livelihood and I am worried about theirs in return.
I imagine it'll all pan out in the long run as to which company is still solvent 10 years from now.....and which ones are gone with the wind........
Terminator
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But the bottom line is: if you own a Hot Springs Spa you now have a big box mass-merchant retail item. ;D
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That is still better than having a "big box" for a step with your equipment under though. OH YES I DID GO THERE, STEP UP
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That is still better than having a "big box" for a step with your equipment under though. OH YES I DID GO THERE, STEP UP
idiot
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And with that statement you have identified the majority of spa shoppers. That is why it takes spa sales people to show these people the difference. However, if they are doing their internet shopping at costco.com and see the spa page, well then they just might be done. No Jacuzzi salesman, no Sundance salesman, no HS salesman EVER got a chance to explain the differences, because heck they're all just a bunch of boxes o' water with a little plummin in em, right.
These are the people who don't understand the spa business. These are people who think all spas are the same and would have bought a low end garage spa or something from an outlet store anyway.
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YOU GOT ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY?
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Yeah, I got lots to say, firstly, now matter how hard I hit this damn horse it wont get up and move!
YOU GOT ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY?
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I would like it if they started selling caldera online.
The future of the industry is online sales. There will always be a need for a dealer, so that customers can see it feel it touch and for service, but online sales are coming that is for sure. I think it's another innovation by watkins to sell online.
Like others have said, most of the customers who are buying online are going to buy online already. Why not get a portion of those sales for yourself? Why not get a % of those people to come into the store so you can upsell them on a better model.
Most people are afraid of change but if you don't change in business you die.
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YES Tiger River and Hot Spot are made by the same people as Hot Springs. NO they are not the same tubs. Different features and insulation and filtration. Im sure this tub at Cosco is the same way, just because it is produced on the same line doesnt make it the same. If it doesnt say Hot Spring Spas on the control panel it is a different tub.
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Yeah, I guess GM brainwashed some people ... then Chrysler brainwashed some more ... and now even HS has brain washed even more. ;D
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This is just the beginning.
1. Caldera purchase
2. Rec Warehouse
3. Cost Co
4.?
5.?
Always have a plan B.