Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: East_TX_Spa on July 06, 2006, 03:22:00 pm
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01634.jpg)
We removed this spa for a customer last week and replaced it with a Solana SX. I had always thought this brand was a full foam spa. It was 8 years old.
When folks on here talk about a spa being full foamed, is this what they mean? If so, then I have been operating under a different perception.
Terminator
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That looks like the "Full Foaming" on my old Nordic. ::) No way.
Too me, full foam means from the cabinet wall complete to the tub shell (except for the equipment bay).
That tub isn't even a TP desing (no insulation on the cabinet wall)
Fess up, what brand is it?
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I left a tiny little clue visible....
Terminator
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Is that an "M" on the control box lable? M as in MAster? IF so, I thought they had vinyl cabinets with steel frames. I can see wood from the inside.
Is that an "N" on the lable? for Nordic? is so as I mentioned, it looks suspicioly like one I had.
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Damnit.
It's a Marquis. I'll be my Tiger River on it.
Marquis, doesn't say "Full Foam" They say "Solid Foam"
Solid foam, unless it's a liquid or gas foam, of course it's solid foam. That's a deceitful phrase.
Our solid foam insulation and Low-E spa wrap prevent heat from escaping through the spa walls and base and have proven to be the best method of hot tub heat retention
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01171.jpg)
Thermal pane spa.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01629.jpg)
Solid foam spa.
Hmmm....
Terminator
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Actually, I stand corrected. MArquis doe say Full Foamed.
http://www.marquisspas.com/qa.asp#7
... The low operational costs are due to the extra steps Marquis takes to ensure the highest quality, lowest maintenance, and most efficient spa on the market. We insulate the spa with heat reflecting Low-E spa wrap around the entire spa in addition to full foam insulation. The adjustable straps and linear heat seal assure the cover is sealed and energy efficient. The high-output, low-amperage industrial duty pumps run cool and work smoothly to keep operational cost to a minimum....
I declare shenanigans.
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What do the other 3 sides look like? What killed that tub (how old)?
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What do the other 3 sides look like? What killed that tub (how old)?
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01633.jpg)
We didn't remove the panels but they were puffed out. I kicked it out of meanness and it warbled a bit and sounded hollow, like the Master Spas at the parking lot sale. (The Master Spa cabinets were concave and the Marquis were convex)
Spa was 8 years old, pump went out and a couple of jets were leaking, nearest dealer is 70 miles away and won't service.
Terminator
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I declare shenanigans.
If the accusations are true then the delcaration of shenanigans is just.
Shenanigans it is! Where's my broom?
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It looks like they took a holesaw on that Marquis and cut a hole in the top of that front vertical 2x4 and mounted a 2nd spa light lens in it (and put a hole in the front panel I imagine) to use it as an outside light. Novel idea, though I might have left the support alone and toe-nailed a scrap piece of wood next to it and drilled the hole in that.
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Marquis used to have full foam as an option. After analyzing warranty returned tubs that leaked, it was clear that a spa that is not full foamed is much more prone to leaking. Now full foam is standard on all Marquis tubs and it looks nothing like that.
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Marquis used to have full foam as an option. After analyzing warranty returned tubs that leaked, it was clear that a spa that is not full foamed is much more prone to leaking. Now full foam is standard on all Marquis tubs and it looks nothing like that.
That's good to know. I figured it was probably because it was an older spa.
What do they look like inside now? Would you mind posting a pic either here or over on the Underwear topic? I'm just curious to see what the different spas look like under the hood. ;D
Terminator
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I have a question whats up with some of the Hot Springs guys here trying to be "coy" in what appears to be swipes at Marquis...One picture of a 8 year old spa is hardly representative of a line and just shows what someone wants to show....Maybe KIA should starting hanging out the repair shops for BMW and Lexus to see what older autos need some work....Or maybe we should all start posting about those full foam Watkins products that in fact foamed only on "three" sides....Its been my experience that when someone starts taking unsolicited jabs are someone its because there is a uncomfortable loss business to them...And if someone here has the documents to show what the specs were on that 8 year old spa please post them....I have to get some pictures of the Watkins stuff we come across that has that "outstanding" 5 year workmanship " ( could it possibly be any more vague) guarantee on its cabinet but excludes you know the things that actually take place in a backyard like fading, warping or discoloring that gets chalked up to "normal wear and tear" but Marquis covers against for a full 7 years...
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I'm not taking any potshots and I'm sorry if it appears that way. I just took these photos because I had to go help the guys remove it because it was a heavy sucker and it was down in the deck about 4 inches.
I've always said I thought Marquis makes a fine spa and this one was in pretty good shape for one that old.
I'm sure not concerned about losing sales as the Marquis dealer went out of business almost 6 years ago and they've never come back.
I just always thought they were full foam and to my way of thinking, that ain't full foam. Markee cleared that up and I'm satisfied. :)
Terminator
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Term,
I don't know it seems like some off the wall posts and responses here of late...I think most of the guys and gals here are great about being respectful of each other and unless someone is blatant about something even if you disagree you just let it go....but there are things I hear all the time about just about every maker and who knows how much of its true.. in the end what does it really matter....you can only focus on doing the best you can for those who walk in your door the rest is just fluff.....
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Somehow, I get the impression that some people on this site have been in "the business" so long that they come across a bit more abrasively or snippy than they mean to. OTOH, I think that some just FEEL that's the case....
Deep thoughts after a hard day at work. ;)
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Here is a picture of a new Marquis with one of the siding panels off. The spa is wrapped in Low-E wrap underneath the siding and the base and filled with isonene foam.
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/304/siding9zu.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4945/fullfoam0fb.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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Thanks MarKee, those pics of a newer tub help understand what' out there.
I think Term was being a bit coy, but not in a bad way. He's stimulating conversation based on his expereinces. Mecendo and Markeee called him on it, and provided info. It's all good.
It's when people make unfounded claims or don't want to discuss the topic, that it becomes more of a bunch of bickering.
Buyers can't go to ALL the dealers and pull off the cabinets walls, dicussions like this give consumers insights to what's what....and why.
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After analyzing warranty returned tubs that leaked, it was clear that a spa that is not full foamed is much more prone to leaking.
Are you implying that it's better to prevent leaks rather than making them easier to fix? WHAT A CONCEPT!! ;D ;D
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How do the Master spa equipment areas look?
???
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How do the Master spa equipment areas look?
???
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01171.jpg)
And guess who just set up a tent 2 blocks away from me yesterday? Why, Little Tyke Spas has come to town.
Gonna be an exciting week....
Terminator
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And guess who just set up a tent 2 blocks away from me yesterday? Why, Little Tyke Spas has come to town.
Gonna be an exciting week....
Terminator
Just plopped a tent into an empty space in a parking lot? Did they bring the gator?
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I don't know yet. I was taking Ol' Meanness to get her sonogram when I saw their tent and spas. No one was there.
I'll go visit with them later.
Terminator
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I don't know yet. I was taking Ol' Meanness to get her sonogram when I saw their tent and spas. No one was there.
I'll go visit with them later.
Terminator
ASk them if a hot tub would be good for your Pregant wife's back.
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I did get good news: I don't have to move to the hot tub store....we are having a BOY!!!!! ;D
Terminator
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Congrats Term! Boys are the best!
When is the little guy due?
I did get good news: I don't have to move to the hot tub store....we are having a BOY!!!!! ;D
Terminator
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Thank you Brooke.
He is expected on October 27th.
I thought that sucker had a tail, but the nurse lady said "No, that is his boy part". That was a relief.
Terminator
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Thank you Brooke.
He is expected on October 27th.
I thought that sucker had a tail, but the nurse lady said "No, that is his boy part". That was a relief.
Terminator
You mistook it for a tail? Jebus Crebus. This is gonna be one popular guy!
congrats!
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Congrats Term! Â Boys are the best!
When is the little guy due?
Brooke, I'm betting you have all boys. I think you would change your mind if you had a girl. :)
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Are you implying that it's better to prevent leaks rather than making them easier to fix? WHAT A CONCEPT!! ;D ;D
Term might be coy but thats OK because he's cute and we all love him. ;D
But your agenda is starting to tick me off. >:( Your snide comments towards TP and Coleman don't make you or Sundance look any better.............
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Hey terminater congrats I have two boys their great we go golfing togther I go to there baseball games there awsome. I tell my wife she only done three things right 1.) marry me 2.) have Solomon 3.) have Matthew
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Marquis did it both ways. It was obvious to them which way had less leaks. That's Marquis, not Sundance!
My "agenda" in this case must be to shine the light on a company that changed their design so they make the best possible spa for their customers as opposed to coming up with the best possible story to support their design.
I have no beef with Coleman. I don't think they are a bad tub. I do think it's inexcusable to have parts rusting like that.(whether it be her Coleman or the speakers on Viper Dudes Emerald)
The comment was made in jest and directed at Vanissa, she gave it a LOL so I'm O.K. with it, if you're not, I'm O.K. with that too.
:-*
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Why don't you get out in the field and work on a half dozen different brands of spas and tell me how and why a full foamed spa is better than Coleman.
I sell full foam as well.......I also work on both full foam and thermal pane.....Full foam spas can leak.....So can thermal pane.....
I've been in this business a long time. When a dealer can succesfully sell both TP an FF in the same showroom you know your selling a spa on it's benifits. Not selling one because you can trash talk technology and a manufacturing process that your brand doesn't use.
Every major spa manufacturer has some dark years that they went through. The spa industry is really in it's infancy compared to say the auto industry. They've all come a long way in the last decade. I've sold Coleman for over a decade and have never been prouder to sell them.
Quit snipping at Coleman and start bragging about Sundance. Who BTW are owned by Jacuzzi, the other brand that I sell..... ::)
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One cool thing about Marquis is that they have tried many different things in spas, for instance circulation pumps or not fully foaming the spa, whereas many companies have just done it one way since the beginning and are reluctant to change. The one thing that I will say about the full foam versus TP debate, why would a manufacture spend money on foam and labor on spraying that foam if they could get away without it? Obviously Marquis tried it and it wasn't the best possible product for the customer so they made a change.
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It's like watching a train wreck that I just can't turn away from
Full Foam debate..TP is cheaper to manufacturer and that's why companies like...Coleman use it....
Fact....Since the 80's, Coleman has been manufacturing and perfecting technology called thermal pane.
1. Coleman offers a 5 year warranty on plumbing including 5 years on leaks, jets, diverters,ect. Plumbing is plumbing, no matter if you can see it or not.
a..If that technology was so inferior wouldn't Coleman go broke on warranty calims.
b..I applaud Marquis for deciding to start to full foam the spas they manufacture. Looking at that picture from an 8 year old tub, I will tell you that they were not doing TP the same way that Coleman was at that time....
c..Don't compare an 8 year old TP Marquis to a Coleman and tell me they changed their manufacturing process because they realizied Full Foam was better for the customer, although much more expensive for them to produce.
This is all fluff....( not the word I wanted to use )
Call me a crazy, but I'd like to think one day, we could sell our own spas on their own merits, comfort, therapy, and reliability.
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spahappy,
I agree with you....I think the jabs at others products is not needed.....I fully agree that if someone is lying about something than they should be called on it...but to take unsolicited shots at others is not professional and EVERY SPA at there has room for improvements...I am proud to sell Marquis I think top to bottom you simply cannot find a better spa but I think and except that everyone here feels the same way about they represent and if not they should....
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Joanna, can't touch this one!
Stick to your guns baby!
Regards, Zz
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c..Don't compare an 8 year old TP Marquis to a Coleman and tell me they changed their manufacturing process
I never mentioned Coleman. Did you?
I made a sarcstic(granted) comment about the obvious truths that MARQUIS discovered in the course of business. NEVER mentioned Coleman, NEVER mentioned Sundance. If you took offense it has more to do with you than with my comments.
Me thinks thou protest too much!!
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I think the jabs at others products is not needed
To be clear... Which jabs are we refering to?
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One cool thing about Marquis is that they have tried many different things in spas, for instance circulation pumps or not fully foaming the spa, whereas many companies have just done it one way since the beginning and are reluctant to change. The one thing that I will say about the full foam versus TP debate, why would a manufacture spend money on foam and labor on spraying that foam if they could get away without it? Obviously Marquis tried it and it wasn't the best possible product for the customer so they made a change.
CHURCH
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I believe Marquis warranties their plumbing more than anyone in the business, 7 years.
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What a unique way of taking "potshots" while sounding innocent and saying your not! ;)
Not to worry though, when I get some time this week I have several HotSpring pictures of the same vintage and newer with Pink faded cabinets, cracks on the edge of the lips (most within a foot of each other), burned heaters, Cracks on the steps and so on.
I've replaced more heaters and heater relay boards on HotSpring than should have ever failed so it will show history behind their newer D1 like heater (that they used to sell against) and explain why they went to it.
I wont be taking potshots either but rather showing some history..... ;) 8)
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Ya didn't they used to put smoke detectors around those Hotspring heaters?
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What a unique way of taking "potshots" while sounding innocent and saying your not! ;)
Not to worry though, when I get some time this week I have several HotSpring pictures of the same vintage and newer with Pink faded cabinets, cracks on the edge of the lips (most within a foot of each other), burned heaters, Cracks on the steps and so on.
I've replaced more heaters and heater relay boards on HotSpring than should have ever failed so it will show history behind their newer D1 like heater (that they used to sell against) and explain why they went to it.
I wont be taking potshots either but rather showing some history..... ;) 8)
Sounds like the MATURE thing to do! :P How about we all get are old pics of other MFG's spas and show the issues they had....God knows I have tons. ;) I actually have a fellow HS dealer friend who has a graveyard of 95'-2000' D1 units that should have lasted longer then they did. At least the spa is removable in one piece when they trade them out vs. some other brands out their. ;D
I also have some nice pics of that same pink faded cabinet from 99'-00' before and after... and after the after. That's right, back then having a proprietary material that was stainable was a great idea. Still the most durable ext. material HS has used IMHO.
I just sold five pre-owned HS units ranging from 88'-97' down in the Florida Keys over the weekend. Being that you recondition spas as well, you know everyone who does, has incriminating photos of other MFG's spas. And for every incriminating photo, there is an after photo that tells a whole other story... :o
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sounds like the Soviets and the US stockpiling Nukes.
How 'bout if we lower this to Devcon II and disarm?
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/b01be287.jpg)
Good grief....all I wanted to know is if this is what some of ya'll refer to as full foam. I thought maybe my idea of full foam was different than some of ya'lls.
It wasn't a full foam spa, Markee explained that, I told him I was satisfied, and that's that.
Merry Christmas!
Terminator
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Good grief....all I wanted to know is if this is what some of ya'll refer to as full foam. I thought maybe my idea of full foam was different than some of ya'lls.
It wasn't a full foam spa, Markee explained that, I told him I was satisfied, and that's that.
Merry Christmas!
Terminator
Your question was valid and it was promply explained in a reply...It seems that one has jumped to faulty conclusions on the overtone of your original post, taken personally due to ties to the product. ;)
.....back down to devcon II for ya spatech t.u.o.
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Your question was valid and it was promply explained in a reply...It seems that one has jumped to faulty conclusions on the overtone of your original post, taken personally due to ties to the product. ;)
.....back down to devcon II for ya spatech t.u.o.
lol...that's really pathetic ....lets see someone post something that is less than faltering and not accurate about the HS product and see if it goes unnoticed .....please have the sac to not be so hypocritical.....it would be no different than if someone pulled out pictures of some of those old fire causing heaters and said humm is this what Hot Springs is doing...come on be little bit more of stand up person...
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lol...that's really pathetic ....lets see someone post something that is less than faltering and not accurate about the HS product and see if it goes unnoticed .....please have the sac to not be so hypocritical.....it would be no different than if someone pulled out pictures of some of those old fire causing heaters and said humm is this what Hot Springs is doing...come on be little bit more of stand up person...
Term posted a question and it was answered promptly! My statements were made in rebuttle to the hypersensitive comments made by another...You can lick my sac for thinking I'm being hypocritical. I'm not the one whining that there are shots being taken. The HS product is put under scrutiny everyday on this site and others as much as it is praised, and I personally stay out of the bickering as much as possible. Pal, you don't know me well enough to determine if I'm a stand up person or not, but I know I don't claim superiority of my product anywhere near the rhelm that you do. I see that you're just backing up your boy, but know when it's the pot calling the kettle black. ::)
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Chas posted this on one of the other forums regarding "the HotSpring heater fires". He did an excellent job of illuminating the disinformation and outright lies being propogated on this subject.
It has been edited in order to fit.
On 5/9/2006 2:48:28 AM, James Arjuna wrote:
>In Dec 2001
NOTE: this 'news' is over five years old. The voluntary recall sponsored by HotSpring took care of the issue to the point that the CPSC no longer has the recall listed, and HotSpring no longer has to mention it on any web site. It's over - taken care of. Finished.
>Hot Spring spas
>had a heater recall of 142,000
>heaters.
Yup - the number was actually higher, but I can't see why it matters. Other than to prove how many tubs HS sells: that 140,000+ number shows the immense selling power of a quality product, and the fact that HS has sold 700,000 tubs to date is why they were able to take care of ALL those tubs. Smaller companies - especially Mom and Pop resellers who modify other people's engineering and void ETL listing - would never have been able to fully handle a recall of this number of tubs. BTW - the 'recall' was to add an insulator to each end of the heater. The owner could do it in ten minutes, but if for some reason they were not able to, HS would pay a tech to go take care of it at no charge.
>I know people who's hot spring
>spa caught fire on their deck.
Prove it. But even if it really is true, I would bet that HS took complete care of them.
>The problem is that when you
>place a 6,000 watt heater on a
>heater that was originally
>designed for 1500 watts with a
>tiny circulation pump, you are
>asking for overheat problems.
>There simply was not enough
>water flow to keep the heaters
>from overheating.
This is completely false, and shows a total lack of understanding of the simple facts. HS has used that exact type of system for it's entire 29 years - 700,000 tubs plus. It works. I have one in my backyard that has been working for around ten years. I have sold them since 1987 - there are two working right now on my showroom floor. I'm very sorry you just can't understand the obvious, Jim, but these spas do in fact work, and work well.
The reason the heaters failed has NOTHING to do with flow. The heater maker - TrueHeat - used a crimped connection in two critical junctions. Those got hot. Very few did anything other than stop heating. NO heater with the upgrade burned anything, and anyone who suffered a loss of any kind was made whole again. Jim, you have just heard the correct story - so you no longer have to live in ignorance or accidentally post the wrong information.
>
>You may recall that many
>thousands of them actually
>burst at the seams when the
>pump stopped running.
No, they didn't.
>
>It was a bad design, because
>it does not follow the ANSI
>safety standards for heater
>high limits of 122 degrees F
>maximum temp inside the
>heater.
It worked fine except for the choice to use that crimped connector. The water goes by a temperature probe which triggers a shutdown if the water happens to be 118 degrees F or more. That will happen if the the filter gets plugged, and the little power light on the front of the spa will begin to blink to let you know. You simply clean the filter, restart the spa and it will go about it's business again. The water leaving the heater CANNOT be over that temp, or the system shuts down. So - unfortunately, you are in error Jim: the UL listing the heater carried was fine, the ETL (using UL standards) still certifies the tub to this day. The new heater also has the same temp sensor system.
>The other issue with Hot
>Spring is that they do not
>have dual suctions on each
>pump according to the ANSI.
Jim, just today I read a post in which you say something about people who do not want to learn. If I had a dollar for every time you have posted this garbage I could retire. The HS system exceeds the ANSI suggestions. HS would never settle for taking the ANSI suggestions and building a spa - that would work for a small-potato operation, but you don't get to be #1 that way. HS engineers not only exceed the suggestions, but they have added to the filtration by putting two suctions on each jet pump, and then outfitting those suctions with a filter. As I have said countless times Jim, I would LOVE to see you try to get stuck on a filter. BTW - I really mean that Jim.
Shoppers: HS has been eating the lunch of Mom and Pop spa companies like Jim's for so long that they tend to get bitter and begin acting hateful. I'm sorry you have to read this, but think: the engineers at Watkins literally helped to FORM the ANSI standards for tubs. They still have engineers who sit on the various committees and boards. ETL uses the UL standard - which Watkins helped Roy Jacuzzi to formulate close to thirty years ago. These tubs would not be the best selling units in the world if they were unsafe. But I am sure most of you realize that this man is raling against a competitor.
>
>
It makes NO SENSE at all to try to get information about a product from it's competitors.
Chas
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Term,
I agree with you.....It would be wrong and not accurate to post about this....particularly since it is old news .....You asked about an 8 year old spa....that has little in common with TODAYS SPA.......I hope you can see that there is little difference in the two.... foam on an 8 year old Marquis or Fires and Heaters on an 5 year old Hot Springs......both do not apply to today's products.....
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Term,
I agree with you.....
Thank you. I realize that Marquis DOES use full foam presently (thanks to Markee's aforementioned post). But the original picture did not portray what I consider to be full foam. It was thermal pane.
And now I understand. :)
Didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings. I just wanted to make sure we were all talking about the same thing.
Terminator
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Term posted a question and it was answered promptly! My statements were made in rebuttle to the hypersensitive comments made by another...You can lick my sac for thinking I'm being hypocritical. I'm not the one whining that there are shots being taken. The HS product is put under scrutiny everyday on this site and others as much as it is praised, and I personally stay out of the bickering as much as possible. Pal, you don't know me well enough to determine if I'm a stand up person or not, but I know I don't claim superiority of my product anywhere near the rhelm that you do. I see that you're just backing up your boy, but know when it's the pot calling the kettle black. ::)
lol...wow the arrogrance....I mention fires as a example and in 5 minutes there is a novel posted about them just in case something might actually get said....I used it as a example of how posting pictures of any product that is old and does not represent what the current product is is unfair to anyone....living in Florida and being close to Disneyland must make it like Fantasy-land for you and regards to the licking of your sac....and to me and talking about the superiority of our product show me the post....If I ever mention anything it has always been when someone is over stating something about our product or their own....Or when I spoke about the believe in our product but in the same sentence mention that I am sure others feel the same about thiers....
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lol...wow the arrogrance....I mention fires as a example and in 5 minutes there is a novel posted about them just in case something might actually get said....I used it as a example of how posting pictures of any product that is old and does not represent what the current product is is unfair to anyone....living in Florida and being close to Disneyland must make it like Fantasy-land for you and regards to the licking of your sac....and to me and talking about the superiority of our product show me the post....If I ever mention anything it has always been when someone is over stating something about our product or their own....Or when I spoke about the believe in our product but in the same sentence mention that I am sure others feel the same about thiers....
First off, I didn't post that heater dissertation.
Here is your most recent superiority quote:
I think this board has changed here of late ...I am not going to try and say what I feel is the best but some the things written in this thread are simply inaccurate...I recently had the chance to look at several different makes in the last thirty days and I think if you look at all three tubs and if you can take an 8 year old with you and in about 10 minutes they can tell you which of the three is the better built spa....its not tough to see when looked at with eyes wide open.....
So your not going to try and say what you feel is "best", but you continue to state what you feel is best anyways...And then disrespect the other two products in question by saying even an 8 year old can tell you which product to buy. NICE!
By the way, Disney Land is in CA and Disney World is in FL. I live nowhere close.
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Wow, instead of beating a dead horse they should call this section beating the crap out of each other.
Peace :-* :-* :-*
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Lets get ready to rummmmbleeeeeeeeeee!!!!!! ;D
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Hold hands and sing it wif me:
Coon by ya'll, my Lawd, Coon by ya'll
Coon by ya'll, my Lawd, Coon by ya'll
Coon by ya'll, my Lawd, Coon by ya'll
Oh Lawd, Coon by ya'll.
Terminator
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First off, I didn't post that heater dissertation.
Here is your most recent superiority quote:
I think this board has changed here of late ...I am not going to try and say what I feel is the best but some the things written in this thread are simply inaccurate...I recently had the chance to look at several different makes in the last thirty days and I think if you look at all three tubs and if you can take an 8 year old with you and in about 10 minutes they can tell you which of the three is the better built spa....its not tough to see when looked at with eyes wide open.....
So your not going to try and say what you feel is "best", but you continue to state what you feel is best anyways...And then disrespect the other two products in question by saying even an 8 year old can tell you which product to buy. NICE!
By the way, Disney Land is in CA and Disney World is in FL. I live nowhere close.
lol...I guess you had an eight year old look at the spas...I never said which was better but just tried to keep up with the posts and you know that "coy" thing that seems to be so popular here if late.....
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Hold hands and sing it wif me:
Coon by ya'll, my Lawd, Coon by ya'll
Coon by ya'll, my Lawd, Coon by ya'll
Coon by ya'll, my Lawd, Coon by ya'll
Oh Lawd, Coon by ya'll.
Terminator
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
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lol...I guess you had an eight year old look at the spas...I never said which was better but just tried to keep up with the posts and you know that "coy" thing that seems to be so popular here if late.....
So explain to me again, who's the hypocrit?
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This bout is scheduled for 12 rounds!!!!!!!!!
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So explain to me again, who's the hypocrit?
and the circle goes round and round and round....I am stepping out.......do enjoy
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I find this entire thread sad. We all should. Term knows EXACTLY what a full foam spa looks like and we all know he's not a newbie in the business. It was intended as a shot as was taken as such. Put whatever spin you want on it...
Pkud, you need to calm down buddy! Why so defensive? You say the question is "valid" though I think we all know differently... ::) Had the question been based soley on determining what Marquis considers "full foam", the first picture and the first picture ONLY, would have been ample to gain the answer. The "ugly" pics came out and as previously mentioned, we could ALL post ugly pictures of competitors spas. Most choose to take the high road. Good on Mendo for pointing that out!
I think it's called passive agressive Term... ;) You're good at it though..... ;D
Steve