Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: gregandkelly on July 09, 2006, 03:53:11 pm
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I am beginning to get really frustrated!
My wife and I are fairly new spa owners. We purchased a 450 gal Cal Spa about 6 months ago. We're still trying to figure out what we're doind wrong.
Because we have an inground pool and use Baquacil, we were told we needed to use Baquaspa in case people wanted to get in/out of pool and spa. We were told by the local pool dealer that is could cause probelms in both the pool and the spa if we used different chemicals in each and moved from one to the other.
Our spa has a CD Ozinator (we're still not sure what that is and if it ever runs!)
Here's our problem.....our water stays cloudy MOST of the time! All our friends all use chlorine and there water is always crystal clear! AARGH! We take samples of the spa water to the dealer and they always say it's balanced so we don't know what's causing the cloudiness.
I'm starting to guess it's the detergent in out suits, but we only wear any if the kids are home.
We also spray our filter once a week with the garden hose and have chemically cleaned it once about 3 months ago.
Any ideas will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!
Greg and Kelly
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First of all, I use dichlor (chlorine). Not too many people on this forum have been happy with Baquaspa.
Have you dumped out the spa water lately? There are some dealers here who recommend dumping out the water during the first 30 days to avoid such problems as what you are having. If this doesn't help, maybe some of the dealers can chime in. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out for you.
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Thanks for the reply Gomboman
We have drained and refilled three times since owning the spa. Once after the first 60 days. Once again about 60 days later since we were moving it onto the new deck (It's sunken now which is extra cool!) and once again just yesterday. (That one doesn't count!)
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First let me ask you a few questions.
1. is it cloudy only when the jets or filter are on, or is it cloudy all the time?
2. Do you have one filter or two?
3. How long does your filter run each day
4. Do you have your controls set to run as an economy mode?
If it is only cloudy when the jets are on then you have no problem. Air gets trapped in the water when baqua is used and gives it an alka seltzer look. 30 seconds after the jets are shut off it looks perfectly clear.
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First let me ask you a few questions.
1. is it cloudy only when the jets or filter are on, or is it cloudy all the time?
2. Do you have one filter or two?
3. How long does your filter run each day
4. Do you have your controls set to run as an economy mode?
If it is only cloudy when the jets are on then you have no problem. Air gets trapped in the water when baqua is used and gives it an alka seltzer look. 30 seconds after the jets are shut off it looks perfectly clear.
The spa is cloudy all the time...it's not bad, but not sparkling clear as we've seen others.
We have one filter
Filter runs 50% of the time or more
It is not on the economy mode
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We were put on Baqua by the place that sold us our spa. Used it for about a year, never could get it to work. Our main problem was fizzy water that made everyone cough, especially if we ran a lot of air in our jets.
We switched to Bromine for a year, and are now using dichlor. We stopped using bromine because it was hard to get the water to stay balanced, and we adding more Ph and alk adjusting products than I liked.
Switching to dichlor was the best move we've made concerning the spa. Water care is a snap, water stays crystal clear. Dichlor is pretty Ph neutral, so I'm adding way less adjusters, and best of all dichlor is cheap and easily obtainable. We have only 2 place in town to get Baqua products.
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Thanks brewman. We're probably goingto have to switch too.
Does anyone know of problems with your pool being Baquacil and the hot tub being something other than Baquaspa?
My friends are trying to tell me it's all marketing from the Baquacil people saying to stay away from using different type chemicals in the pool and the spa. Don't know what to think!
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First, I agree that it would be best to stay with the same system for spa and pool as the two systems (i.e peroxide and chlorine) are not compatible. You might consider putting a simple shower head out by the pool to rinse off before entering either from the other to solve the problem if you decide to use dichlor in your spa.
Second, call the Bacqua people and find out what they would recommend. Since you say the water is not clear at all times, I am inferring that this is true even with fresh water. That implies that you can rule out a contaminate such as detergent from swim suits or what not. Just be certain, the cloudiness is present at all times, right?
There are clarifying chemicals, but let the Bacqua Spa people recommend one that it is compatible with their product. You might want to get a sample of your raw water tested to see what is causing the cloudiness too. To get that, call your water utility and ask for it. Or take a raw water sample to the chemical dealer for testing, or by a Taylor kit and do it yourself.
Bill
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Have fun getting a response from the Baqua people. I didn't have any luck when I tried to contact them.
And the Baqua dealers in the area weren't much help either.
But you do have a unique situation with your pool. But really, how much of a problem would this actually be?
If you swapped your spa water to bromine or dichlor or something, worst case is you introduce a relativel little of that water into a very large volume of water in your pool. Would that really hurt the pool water?
And if you spa was on dichlor or bromine, would a bit of baquacil water impact the spa much? Granted the spa is way smaller volume, so maybe there is some possible issue there.
But you're already having water problems with your spa the way it is now.
Good luck on your quest for a solution, and let us know what ends up working.
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I have Chlorine and I had a similar problem. After 3 weeks of having the spa, the water was getting clouder and cloudier. It was clean, did not smell or anything, but it was not clear.
All chemicals were good (I also use Natures 2), in fact I took it in to get tested as well.
So I tried some clarifier (Leisure Time Bright and Clear in my case). I put in in, ran the jets and filter for a bit. Then the magic happened. My water surface started to congeal and I skimmed off the stuff.
Once I did that and wiped off the scum ring, the water is awesome again!!! I think my problem was the first couple of days we had the spa, we had like 10 miscellaneus people in the spa with various degrees of sweat, lotion, and bathing suits with detergent on in the spa.
While I highly recommend this, I do not recommend the day that you will have people over as it is a pretty gross process. But the results are 'banging' clear water.
I also recommend a scum sponge, like a dirty duck or similar as it seems to help maintain the clarity and keep out the body oils, etc.
Good luck!!
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The spa is cloudy all the time...it's not bad, but not sparkling clear as we've seen others.
We have one filter
Filter runs 50% of the time or more
It is not on the economy mode
It sounds to me like your biggest problem is particulates in the water. Baqua has a water clairifier that will help clear the water right up. If you have the 50 sq. ft filter then I recomend you replace it with the micron filter. It cost about 25 bucks and lasts about 6 months. Never clean it just drop in a new one.
As far as changing the spa to chlorine and keeping the pool on baqua, I DO NOT recomend this. If you switch one, switch both. we have done this on pools that I used to service and it became a nightmare. The water turned brown and the filters needed to be replaced..
I know there are a lot of baqua haters on this board. But as an ex service man that used to clean over 100 pools and spas a week. I can honestly say that baqua pools and spas were always the cleanest and some of the easiest to take care of.
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Bill, let me clarify (pun intended). When we fill up the spa the water is very clear, but within a week it is cloudy and we have trouble getting back to clear.
My answer we referring to Micah's question about if the water was cloudy with the jets on/off. Once it gets cloudy it doesn't matter if the Jets are on or not......it's cloudy!
We have used the Baquaspa clarifyier in the past with limited success. It's clears up, not doesn't get as clear as it should. I do believe the probelm is particulates.....I might have to try the Micron filter.
I will never, ever put my pool on chlorine, so I guess my options are to figure out the probelms with the Baquaspa or install an outdoor shower.
Thanks for all the great ideas! Kepp them coming!
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Baquaspa water is rarely a sharp as Chlorine water.
Do you have test strips? What are the readings?
How often do you use the spa?
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One other thing I would like to mention. Make sure that you are chemically cleaning the filters every 3-4 weeks on the Baqua Spa program. I usually equate cloudy water to one of two things, low sanitizer or poor filtration. Just spraying off the filters with the hose will not be enough, with the Baqua program I have the best results when people chemically clean them.
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Tell us more about your pool on Baqu. I've never heard of a swimming pool on Baqua. Does it work well for your pool?
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Baquacil in pools is wonderful! Very easy and no bleaching of hair, suits or pool liner!
We do use the test strips and they always read normal or very close.
We might need to buy another filter and rotate one while we're chemically cleaning the other.
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Gotta put my two cents worth in, I know I am not going to change anyones mind, but here it goes...
I have been in pool and spa service for over 15 yrs. and my experiance with biguanides (Baquacil, SoftSwim, etc) has not been good. Pools in this system tend to be dull, never have the sparkle that a well balanced chlorine pool has. As for spas, you get the same problem, plus a "locker room" smell.
A properly ballanced pool or spa on chlorine will never bleach hair or suits.
Never ever ever mix chlorine with Baqua, the result is a greenish cloudy pool or spa that will take days to clear up. So if you really want to keep your pool on baqua, you will need to keep your spa on it as well, or make everone shower when going from pool to spa.
Personaly, I prefer chlorine or salt chlorine generators on pools and bromine on spas. The bromine has a higher sanitizing effect in water over 95f than chlorine.
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Tumbleweed,
We've had our pool for 10 years and it's been on Baquacil the entire time. It is always sparkling clean and we've never had a problem.
My wife had a pool growning up (before Baquacil) and had to use the chlorine, etc. She is amazed at how easy the Baquacil is over the chlorine and says our pool water is as clear or clearer that theirs ever was on chlorine.
Now.........back to my original problem...........
We finally have the probelm fixed! I bought another filter and we have begun switching them out. We chemically clean one, let it dry and switch it with the other filter once a month.
Before, we had been taking the filter out, spraying it with the hose, running it thru the dishwasher, etc, and it just wasn't coming clean enough. We would chemically clean it every time we drained/refilled, but that wasn't enough. Now we have a chemically cleaned filter every month and out water is now sparkling clear......even on Baquaspa!
Thanks for all the suggestions!!
Greg
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With Baquaspa, the filters get coated with an oily substance. So you have to chemically clean them regularly. I would not put filters through the dishwasher or even give them a real hard rinse with the garden hose unless I had cleaned them first. Doing so will just drive the oil into the filter surface, and then you get cloudy water.
I also have to break the news to our customers on Baqua that they will be buying new filters FAR more often than our other customers, assuming that they want clear sparkling water.
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It sounds to me like your biggest problem is particulates in the water. Baqua has a water clairifier that will help clear the water right up. If you have the 50 sq. ft filter then I recomend you replace it with the micron filter. It cost about 25 bucks and lasts about 6 months. Never clean it just drop in a new one.
I am so glad someone finally mentioned a micron filter. Typical spa filters are good, and definitely cleaning them is better than not.
Micron filters work differently, instead of surface area, they filter by depth and surface area. Not that I want to start another one's better than the other, but if you care to spend the time testing different chemicals, try a micron filter.
They are disposable so you never have to clean them, they catch finer particulates (Pleated filters 20 microns, micron filters 1 micron), so fine that they will catch metals (no more flocculants or metal and stain eliminators) and bacterium, plus some of them are coated with Microban. They even make a pre-filter to catch bad stuff right out of the hose. The best part, if you don't like it, just change the filter.
I have got a micron filter in one tub, and a 50sq ft. pleated filter in another. Both at 100 degress, and both were just recently 'wet tested' by the same individuals. I can keep you posted ;)
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The bromine has a higher sanitizing effect in water over 95f than chlorine.
This is absolutely not true. Chlorine is fully effective to (and even optimally effective at) 130 degrees F. However it does start to neutralize at 160.
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Baqua is very expensive, very labor intensive and many people have problems keeping the water clean, plus as chas mentioned you have the filter issue.
Honestly, I don't know why you couldn't use chlorine in your spa and Baqua in your pool, although I am not a pool person, but I can't see how a 20,000 gallon pool would be affected by trace amounts of chlorine on people's skin. I think that the dealer is just telling you that, but again, that's just my opinion.
Many dealers only sell Baqua, because the revenue is significantly higher to them if they put their customers on it.
I would ask a second pool store in your area if they agree with that assestment.
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sandiego,
I disagree with the Baquacil being labor intensive. We find it much less intensive and wouldn't use anything else.
.......now as far as expense....well, that's another matter!
We'll stick to baquacil.
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sandiego,
I disagree with the Baquacil being labor intensive. We find it much less intensive and wouldn't use anything else.
.......now as far as expense....well, that's another matter!
We'll stick to baquacil.
I'm sorry I just said Baqua, I meant Baquaspa. I find it to be much more labor intensive and rigid than using chlorine, bromine or nature 2. that's what I meant to say
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greg....
if ya get a chance.....
post some pics of your tub
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sandiego,
I disagree with the Baquacil being labor intensive. We find it much less intensive and wouldn't use anything else.
.......now as far as expense....well, that's another matter!
We'll stick to baquacil.
I'm sorry I just said Baqua, I meant Baquaspa. I find it to be much more labor intensive and rigid than using chlorine, bromine or nature 2. that's what I meant to say
Our customers who follow the recipe find that BaquaSpa is not labor intensive at all. when it works, the water is much nicer than a chlorine or bromine spa...silkier, softer, does not dry out skin.
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WHEN it works seems to be the key phrase.
Glad to hear that some people can figure that stuff out, but I never could.
All 3 of the dealers in this area I talked to, and the Baqua people themselves were no help at all.
One dealer even told me that the fizzy cough water was normal for a spa.
Right........
Another one suggested another really expensive product to use along with the Baqua.
No help.
The third one suggested I use bromine instead.