Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: saint_chuck on July 30, 2006, 12:20:21 pm
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I note a LOT of dealers promoting their line of tubs in here. Any non-dealer have any experience with the Nordic tubs made in Grand Rapids, MI??? The Pools Plus shop here used to carry them, but not anymore.....ANyone know why?
All they carry now is the HS and "others" made by HS.
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Nordic spas are very good value spas.....they are simple but effective and most can be bought for under 5 grand....many models offer a 5 year no fault titanium heater much the same as the bigger makers use in their spas along with Gecko controls....If you are looking for something with not a lot of frills but made with very good components than Nordic is worth a look.......
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Thanks Mendocino (Homer for Senate, eh?)
I toured the factory in Grand Rapids and met many of the people as they were building these tubs. They clamp and glue all of their connections, and also water/pressure test all of their builds before shipping. Same components that go in the HS spas. Also, they put a plastic floor under the tub to prevent ants/pests.
Am I missing something? I am having difficulty rationalizing why HS is 4 grand more....
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lol.....well.....I am sure HS would think so.....no I just think if you want a simple spa that is well made than they are a good choice....again not a lot of frills but solid components and a well thought-out spa at a good price....open seating if you like that instead of the more contoured.....
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Hi, I would HIGHLY reccommend that you wet test that Nordic. While they told you they use the same compenents as HS, that is simply not true!! Here are just a few obvious differences:
The foam is about 70% on Nordic versus 100% Hot Spring.
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Sorry about that, here are more differences:
1. The pumps are NOT as strong!! Just feel one wet and running. The Nordic feels like a garden hose, except for the whirlpool which is really strong.
2. The Nordic is louder. Wet test them both one right after the other...it is obvious!
3. The lighting in Nordic stinks...on or off...no dimming which I hate.
4. When wet testing the Nordic, and I have used 2 different ones wet, the benches are so narrow I could not get comfortable. I admit I am a bigger guy, but even my wife fell off the bench.
5. The Nordic does cost more to operate as it uses a two-speed pump to circulate the water. The pump is also alot louder than the circ pump on the HS, Sundance, or Artesian Spas.
6. You mentioned the bottom on the Nordic. Ask them to tip one up and feel that plastic. Then have someone tip up a HS and try to pound into the bottom...huge difference! Even the Great Lakes has a much better bottom than Nordic.
7. The claim that they use the exact same compenents is just so wrong its sad. They use one 35 sq filter, where HS will have alot of filters so you clean them less. ANd the Tri-X filter is totally unique to HS like the Micro-Clean is to Sundance...also a great spa btw.
In conclussion, if you want to save money up front for a boring basic spa then Nordic is for you. If you want an actual massage...try HS wet, try Sundance wet, try the new Caspian from TR wet (even though you disliked the Bengal), try a few other brands wet before you buy...then you will make a good decision.
Good luck!
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Scott,
I am not going to get into a pi$$ing contest with you but I think you views are way off base.....I do not think it was ever the intent of Nordic to compete head to head with the Hot Springs or Sundances of the world but to offer a quality but affordable alternative..... the simple fact is they do use components that as are good as any in the in the industry, If you can please explain the real and tangible benefit of the Hot Springs "5 year no fault titanium heater and that in the Nordic that uses a 5 year no fault titanium heater, it would be appreciated or the difference in the Gecko controls and those that are in the the D-1 line or the Artisans spas again it would be appreciated .....The shell can take a beating like just about no other and they are not loud to operate ....That claim of everyone who loves to tout a circ pump and it being quiet while a 2 speed pump is loud is about as bogus as saying "Vito" from the Sopranos is now a slender man because he lost a 100lbs NO ! hes now just 100lbs overweight instead of 200....A circ pump is quieter than the 2 speed pump no question but both I and customers still have to open the spa to see of our two speed pumps are running, the argument is a false one when it is implied that the 2 speed pump is obnoxiously loud.....That said a wet test is the best way to find what works for a person and if any spa someone is interested in is the spa that works for them.
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Nordic insulation is just not there. I have limited experience with them, but ask your dealer to do a few things.
Ask them to kick the cabinet, then do the same thing to a Hot Spring.
Ask them to pound the shell on a dry model, then do the same on a Hot Spring.
Both times the Nordic usually sounds like a bass drum in a cave. There are several reasons the Hot Spring cost more money, but ask your local Hot Spring dealer to take the time and explain the differences to you.
If you are looking for a Hot Spring line comparable to the Nordics, try out the Hot Spot.
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Just want to mention that from the Pools Plus people I have met at various conferences, etc. they've all been very friendly and knowledgeable.
I would also recommend that you stop by Zager's. Very nice people there as well. They're a Dimension One dealer.
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Nordic insulation is just not there. I have limited experience with them, but ask your dealer to do a few things.
Ask them to kick the cabinet, then do the same thing to a Hot Spring.
Ask them to pound the shell on a dry model, then do the same on a Hot Spring.
Both times the Nordic usually sounds like a bass drum in a cave. There are several reasons the Hot Spring cost more money, but ask your local Hot Spring dealer to take the time and explain the differences to you.
If you are looking for a Hot Spring line comparable to the Nordics, try out the Hot Spot.
I am not sure what the point of the above post is.....but if you want to pound on something, than take hammer to the Hot springs spas and than the Nordics and see what holds up better.....interesting as no answer to the component statements......but this whole thread is almost comical as it is not really comparable products but they are not meant to really compare....I am unsure as to why so many HS people want to try and defend or justify things when there is no need ....Please go back and read the whole post.....I think at its core the poster did not understand why the Nordics are 4000 grand less....I said hey they are nice and a good value but not a lot of frills but they do use very good components .....than you have someone making irresponsible posts about them not using such components and that is a bold lie....Do I think they are as good overall as Hot Springs ?...NO..... Do I think if you want something for under $5000.00 and still have it made well are they worth considering ? you betcha .....I think the Escape premium which has 44 jets and 2 pumps is terrific value at under 5000.00 grand...I do not think you will find many of the major makers to offer its equal for the price....but its not intended to directly compare with a Hot Springs or a Sundance or a Marquis.....its meant to be reliable and affordable for those who want something simple but still with quality.
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Thanks for keeping this thread in the proper perspective Mendo. The original post never asked for a dealers battle/argument. You continue to be a real benefit to this forum.
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Thank you for the kind words Fatman...... :D
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Hey, I didn't mean to kick off a fire storm about my opinions regarding HS, Sundance, Artesian versus Nordic. The reason I got into the exact differences between them was for another post also by the original guy who siad that Nordic told him (implied?) that Nordic was basically a HS without a Moto-Massage. I should have kept my comments to that post apparantly.
If you want you can find his other post under round verus square spas which I believe Medicino also replied to. I am wondering based on your vigourous defense of Nordic and your attacks on HS dealers if you are a Nordic rep or dealer? Just curious.
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Attack on Hot Springs....You are joking I assume ....I have never attacked Hot Springs nor would I.....I will say this some Hot Springs people at times strike me as being "Arctic" like in their defense at something that might be seen as anything less than complimentary about the product ......Also you must have ex-ray vision to read that someone from Nordic was telling someone it was basically a Hot Springs with out a moto massage.....How did you read that or did you consult with lady Cleo and she was able to twist what was said into that.....I very plainly read that the person happen to see the Nordic plant and came away impressed and was trying to understand what made the Hot Springs that he also looked at 4000 grand more.....My reply if you read was just that they are a no frills spa but they do use very good components to which you said no they do not ....I than asked you to explain the differences in the heaters as example which as of yet you have not done....bottom line for me is Hot Springs is a very well made product that that is also well supported....Nordic is a spa that has less frills.....perhaps less eye appeal and is simple but they do use very good component's in the spa and that for the dollar are a good value.....If you read something more into than that....than start guessing weights with the carney's because you have a gift most do not.....
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Ask them to kick the cabinet, then do the same thing to a Hot Spring.
Ask them to pound the shell on a dry model, then do the same on a Hot Spring.
Please remember that your wallet will take a much bigger "kick" and "pounding" when purchasing a HotSpring when compared to Nordic also! ;)
The question wasn't "which is better"... It was suggested by Mendo that this is a "value" spa and at NO point did he suggest otherwise so I'm unclear how it progressed to this?
Stop reading between the lines you guys and take posts at face value. If you don't understand something...ASK! Mendo will always fully explain himself and won't hide anything. Try that instead of attacking. Remember that respect is earned and Mendo has earned his on here!
I would still like to see Mendo's questions answered Scott. Opinions are one thing but backing up statement with FACTS are something entirely different. The fact remain that many manufacturers use similar componants in many aspects.
Steve
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Same components that go in the HS spas.
I'm just curious, which components that they use are the same as in a HotSpring? Pumps, jets, heaters, controls, cabinet, shell, filters, circ pump, insulation, lights, pillows, drains, stereos, levers, IQ2020......???
Thanks!
Terminator
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I'm just curious, which components that they use are the same as in a HotSpring? Pumps, jets, heaters, controls, cabinet, shell, filters, circ pump, insulation, lights, pillows, drains, stereos, levers, IQ2020......???
Thanks!
Terminator
I think this same portion was the part scott took offense too. I wasn't really directing my comments to Mendo, either.
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I am unsure how this thread seems to have been so twisted....Regarding the compments....I mentioned what I thought most refer to as the components heater, top side controls. spa pac....heater 5 year no fault titanium, Gecko on the rest...sounds very much like the unit used in Hot Springs as well Sundance, Gecko is what you find on Artisans as well as D-1 among others, one more example go to the Nordic web site and you will see the exact same Ozone unit that Chas posted here in another therad just a day or so ago as what goes into a Hot Springs spa.......Please just go back and read from the beginning all that was said by me was that they were very good components that are much the same as the better known makers and I stand behind that.....But at no time did I say they were better or even as good as Hot Springs in fact if you go back and read I very plainly said I did not think they were but that still for the dollars they are a very good value and again I stand behind that as well....
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OK, I'm just a newbie here, but maybe someone, dealer or owner, can fill me in.
What's the big deal here? My sister had a Nordic (a round one), and traded it in after I had my Hot Spring Vanguard for 2 years because 1) she like mine better and 2) mine cost about 1/3 as much to run.
they're not the same tub, but isn't it just a question as far as what you want, how much you want to spend up front and also how much you want to spend after the initial purchase?
Granted, I'm biased and love my vanguard, and I know now that i've had it for 4 years it's cost me about the same as it would have to own a Nordic (energy costs primarily. I live in Northern Michigan BTW)
But I am confused. I thought all of the Hot Springs parts were made by Hot Springs. Am I wrong? I think East Texas mentioned (or illuded to) something along that line. Was I lied to by my salesperson?
Any honest facts would be great here, and maybe help Saint Chuck as well.
BTW, Chuck, are you still undecided or did you pick one out?
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Yep, still here. (Actually, I was in jail because I was hammering and kicking the cabinets and shells at the local tub dealers)
Is kicking and hammering the hot tub a normal part of hot tub ownership? Maybe that is why my Tiger River didn't appreciate me. I was too lenient.
Insulation is different in the comparison but with the same result - they both insulate well. If using a more dense foam, it would logically require more of it as in HS.
But in the end, a styrofoam cup is still a styrofoam cup.(Friend in Goose Bay, Canada and friend in Norway - both love their Nordics)
My insulation in the Tiger River was infested with ants every time I forgot to apply a chemical barrier every season - I like the idea of a physical barrier becasue the insulation is not impervious to ants.
Tip up a hot springs (or any other brand) and insert a needle. Then tip up a Nordic and try to insert a needle.
I would rather simulate an ant trying to penetrate the foam rather than simulating trapping a violent person under the tub.
Lifetime guarantee on the shell - even though it sounds like a base drum when it is empty. I don't plan on it being empty, but when it is I could practice my rhythms.
10 year gurantee on the permawood cabinet.
I am firmly in the market for a whirlpool and not a station spa. The Crown XL is impressive by anyone's standards. The 5 Hp motor jetted thru the 2 whirlpool turbo jets is superior to any other whirlpool that I've seen (it will rip off a bikini top -- wink wink!) Lighting may not be the same manufacturer, but the outcome is the same. (The factory will customize my light system with tiny lights around the circumference).
Surprisingly, price is my least considerate factor, but will always appreciate an extra $4000 in my pocket to buy other toys.
Can anyone out there put me into (wet test) a circular whirlpool that would serve me better? (No frills)
Thanks Mendo for keeping it real. That scott sounded like my local HS dealer - before anyone takes offense, let me just say that my local HS dealer is incapable of rational discussion other than "it's not a hotsprings."
HotSprings IS A PREMIER maker, but at a ridiculous price greater than the sum of it's parts. It is just a label affixed to the cabinet.........
(Thanks also to Magnus,Giraffe, and Fatman)
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Hi, sorry off yesterday. I have not made a secret of the fact that I am a HS dealer. But if you read my original answer to this post I very clearly state that Sundance, Artesian and Great Lakes are all better than Nordic in my opinion. I am not "saying HS only" as St Chuck states. Also, I am not arguing with Mendos' statement that Nordic is a basic no frill spa, though I am still curious if he reps or sells them? My point was and is that to compare a Nordic DIRECTLY to a HS (or other high end loaded spa) is unfair. If you are gonna buy a basic spa on price...go for it. But don't delude yourself that it is the same or uses the same compenets as the other high end units! I think Mendo and others got pulled into this because of some of my verbage when I was really just trying to get St. Chuck to realize they are not the same. If he wet tests Nordic, not just the wirlpool jet, but actually wet tests it and loves it ...then it is the right spa for him. But, I have used Nordics many times and except for the wirlpool, there is not much action from their "5 hp" pump. Thanks also to East TX for pointing just a few more differences between the compenents.
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Scott,
Thanks for answering...I still strongly disagree with you almost to the point of saying you are completely wrong regarding the components ...No one as of yet has addressed the heater, or the controls or the ozone unit...I have summarize the reason is that.. they are for the most part very very comparable but that is not to say that the overall spa is as good......which if you read I never said just that the components are very good and again I do not think it is disputable ....I just again will say that I think they are good value if you want something for under 5 grand....but please read if you missed it....I always said they never were intended to compete with the bigger names but to offer a value spa while still maintaining a high level of quality and that the nuts and bolts of the unit are very good.....l
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But, I have used Nordics many times and except for the wirlpool, there is not much action from their "5 hp" pump.
Just to put in my two cents- I know that "5 hp" has been thrown around this thread- in this case, somewhat disparagingly. I just wanted everyone to know that this is not an overinflated number put out by the manufacturer- I'm not sure where this comes from. From everything I've read, Nordic does not even publish HP numbers.
In trying to research these tubs, I e-mailed Nordics' tech support and asked them for these numbers directly. A very helpful rep then responded with a lengthy post explaining why comparing HP numbers doesn't necessarily translate to what you experience in a wet test. He then gave me the numbers I was looking for, including the mathematics that proved that they were valid continuous HP ratings and not brake HP,
To me, this is how all manufactuers ought to use their numbers.