Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Tatooed_Lady on May 02, 2006, 09:24:31 pm

Title: Crappy water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on May 02, 2006, 09:24:31 pm

Here's a pic of what our hard water looks like. This time I let it run for a bit before putting it in the tub, and could actually SEE the difference between hard and soft when I ran both at once. I only had the heart to fill the tub halfway with that garbage before using the OTHER spigot with softened water...looks like we'll be investing in a whole house filter soon.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/TatooedLady/DSCF0168.jpg)
This is after running both pumps for about an hour....I'm not going to run them constantly until the water's clear, but off and on I'll hit 'em for a while...then I take all 5 filters out and rinse the ORANGE off.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/TatooedLady/DSCF0170.jpg)
If I didn't know better, I'd say this is why I have had to keep up on the dichlor so much more often than Term and his pet Grandee. ;)

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: hottub.pool_boy on May 02, 2006, 09:38:30 pm

Ms. Lady,
We have many clients on wells with water like yours.

Have you tried 1/4 cup of Stain and Scale or Metal Gone on initial fill adding nothing else for 24hrs. Then Balance and shock. Use weekly maintenance dose of stain and scale or metal gone-2-4 capfuls.???

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Bonibelle on May 02, 2006, 09:38:44 pm

T-Lady, are you refilling already?  It looks to me like your water is also full of iron. The softener is  removing the iron (and hardness, too I guess). Do you have a prefilter before your softener? I use a pleated prefilter before my neutralizing tank and that seems to grab some of the free iron. We need to figure this out since several folks on here are having similar problems. If we shouldn't use softened water and the alternative is this....what should be done? I was able to capture my iron mess with stain and scale but I waited to add chemicals until I was pretty sure the filters had cleared the iron....be careful adding your chlorine it will only get worse.

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on May 02, 2006, 09:48:12 pm

pool boy- actually, I'm told to use 3 oz. of minquest on fill, then hold off for awhile, let it work, let the filters filter, clean them off, then start playing mad scientist. Balancing is a PITA, too. TA's off the charts, and I'm trying to use the least chemicals I can to get in "the zone".

Boni - I'm draining and filling because a) it's the first drain, and it's been 30 days....I bet I've overdone it somewhere along the line, I've had some minor water issues...and
b) I'm changing over to bromine for the summer months when I won't have squat for time or energy to putz with the tub. I'll be lucky to be able to use it more than once a week....or get home before I fall asleep...if it goes badly, I'll switch back.....but for now I've got my fingers crossed.

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: KarlXII on May 03, 2006, 05:22:02 am

Hey TL, does this look familiar? :)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/shock.jpg)

That's iron you've got in the water. I doubt that calcium has anything to do with this...

I've realized that I cannot shock with dichlor. My water is very nice now, since two weeks. I did what hottub.pool_boy said, and I have since then just used very moderatly with dichlor. After bathing, I have added dichlor up to 1-3 ppm and softshocked twice a week with MPS. If I use dichlor to shock, the iron in the water oxidizes and the water turns yellow. Once a week, I add more stain control product.
Right now my water is sweet. Silky, smooth and crystal clear.

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: anne on May 03, 2006, 10:47:35 am

Quote

Have you tried 1/4 cup of Stain and Scale or Metal Gone on initial fill adding nothing else for 24hrs. Then Balance and shock. Use weekly maintenance dose of stain and scale or metal gone-2-4 capfuls.???

Mr. Pool boy,
you refer to those products as if they are interchangeable- is that the case? I thought that Metal Gone was for initial fill for metals (and a whole bottle is added) and that S&S was just for calcium issues, and it was added regularly. Am I using these incorrectly?

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Wisoki on May 03, 2006, 11:04:18 am

Well, sheesh, why do you even need to concern yourself with any of that. The way everybody here hollers about the superiority of Hot Spring no by pass filtration, ALL of that stuff will get filtered out in just a few short hours and you'll have sparkling spring water flowing through your jets, at least thats the impression that's given round here.

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Wisoki on May 03, 2006, 11:05:09 am

Come an' git me! LOL  :o

Quote

Well, sheesh, why do you even need to concern yourself with any of that. The way everybody here hollers about the superiority of Hot Spring no by pass filtration, ALL of that stuff will get filtered out in just a few short hours and you'll have sparkling spring water flowing through your jets, at least thats the impression that's given round here.

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: East_TX_Spa on May 03, 2006, 11:13:39 am

Wisoki's exactly correct.  In a few hours, the water will be crystal clear.  He's absolutely right about the greatness of 100% No-Bypass Filtration.

See, in your HotSpring Spa, your filters will get EXTREMELY dirty and your water will get EXTREMELY clean.  In other, lesser systems, your filter will get SOMEWHAT dirty and your water will get SOMEWHAT clean.

I would rather have dirt in my FILTERS, rather than in the main body of water, pump, heater, plumbing, etc.

Wouldn't you? :)

Terminator

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Chas on May 03, 2006, 12:39:43 pm

(http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/jpgs/everfresh_freshstart.jpg)

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Wisoki on May 03, 2006, 01:26:18 pm

But Chas, why would such a thing ever be needed in a HotSpring Spa?

Quote

(http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/jpgs/everfresh_freshstart.jpg)

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: East_TX_Spa on May 03, 2006, 02:25:54 pm

Quote

But Chas, why would such a thing ever be needed in a HotSpring Spa?

That's the beauty of it...you don't NEED it, but it will keep you from filling up your spa with crud to start with, like in the first picture.  You can filter it BEFORE dumping that gunk into such a gorgeous machine and then not have to fool with cleaning your filters a few times.  I actually sell a few of them to people that have off brand spas that really DO need them. :)

Terminator

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: drewstar on May 03, 2006, 02:30:42 pm

Quote

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/TatooedLady/DSCF0170.jpg)

Dump the water. Maybe it will kill some of the dandilions.  ;)

(if it works, let me know. My yard is a field of yellow)

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on May 03, 2006, 09:02:22 pm

drew, I'm not gonna dump it *lol* that's "fresh" water. It only gets better from here on out, until I overdo the chemicals and have to dump to start over...

karl, the tub's almost clear now, slightly yellow tinted, but I've been taking all the filters out to hose them down, then rotating them. That's what I did last fill, and the water was that color....only difference is, I thought it was MY fault for not running the water first...I have no problem with using dichlor. Even superchlorinating the tub doesn't make the water turn colors once that's all filtered out.
Wisoki, actually, the HS filtering system IS amazing. Between the no-bypass and the Tri-X filters, that mess WILL be sparkling clean water in a day or so. I hate to bust your bubble, but I'm just stating what I've seen.
:)

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: RayF-1 on May 03, 2006, 09:57:46 pm

Aw Jeez T-L .. I'm sorry for you.  You worked so hard to get the tub and site just right .. only to learn you've got to bathe in lemon jello!

I hope your dealer tested your water to recommend a "chemical cocktail."

If chems don't do it, you're right .. you may wind up with major filter .. or have a pool-water guy stop by and fill you up every couple of months or so.

Best wishes ..    

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Gomboman on May 04, 2006, 01:51:52 am

Wow, TL, that really is crappy water. Is that well water?

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Bonibelle on May 04, 2006, 07:27:54 am

Apparently iron is real common in well water. We have a house at the Delaware shore. When I was a kid (before we put a filtration system in place), the water would appear pretty clear but cause stains and if you make the mistake of putting chlorox in the wash...you ended up with orange clothes.  A friend and I spent the entire summer working at the beach and by September, her blond hair had an obvous orange tint, and our fingernails and toenails turned orange. It's funny because you can even smell the iron in the water. :-/

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: East_TX_Spa on May 04, 2006, 09:38:24 am

Quote

[size=16][glb]Wisoki, actually, the HS filtering system IS amazing. Between the no-bypass and the Tri-X filters, that mess WILL be sparkling clean water in a day or so. I hate to bust your bubble, but I'm just stating what I've seen.[/glb][/size]
:)

Wow!  It truly is amazing how nasty the water was before and how clean it is becoming.  I would love to see how well the bypass "filtration" systems clean your water. :)

Terminator

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Wisoki on May 04, 2006, 10:34:56 am

They will all get that water back to sparkling clear, but if as Term suggest, you need to do NOTHING, just sit back and wait, and all of a sudden you water will be clear because of the filtering in HS, I suggest you give that method a shot. Fact is your water needs to be chemicaly treated to make that go away, there is no two ways about it. You could dump a half gallon of muriatic acid in there, and TA-DA, your water would be clear. Toxic, and damaging to your spa, but clear. You could do a gradual acid addition coupled with filtration and that will work also. I have no bubble to burst, ALL spas filter and keep water free of particulate matter, that adds to clarity, sanitation is strictly a chlorine, bromine or biguanide situation, which also adds to clarity. Sorry to burst your bubble, but enjoy cleaning all those filters FREQUENTLY.

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: East_TX_Spa on May 04, 2006, 11:11:05 am

Wisoki's right again, the other type of spas would filter all the water.......eventually.

Your exclusive 100% No Bypass Filtration in your HotSpring is filtering every single drop BEFORE all that crud gets sucked into your spa's internal components.  Every little bit of debris gets stopped at the filters, so it is true they will get very, very dirty.

What are filters in a hot tub for?  Why, I believe they are there to get DIRTY and to help keep your water CLEAN.  Other spas have 1 or 2 filters that don't have to be cleaned very often as they don't have the opportunity to capture some of the dirt as the bypass valves deny them that chance.  But, eventually, and the Good Lord willing, the bypass valves will not get all the dirt and the poor little 1 or 2 filters will actually get a chance to do their job.

I LOVE dirty filters.  Means the water is getting clean.  Clean filters in a dirty spa don't get me or my customers too excited. :)

Terminator  

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Bonibelle on May 04, 2006, 12:16:42 pm

Just a thought here T-Lady, when my Marquis partial bypass two filter piece of sh$# had the ice tea water, it cleared it up in just a couple of hours, actually before the water even got to 101. But, here is my thought, When I drained the tub some water was left in my jets (I sucked a bit out with my shop vac, but some continued to drain back into the footwell. That bit of chlorine (I shocked before I drained to clean out the pumps and blow all the toenails and pasta sauce out of my heater), probably caused my instant ice tea water.  If your first fill wasn't as rusty as your second, you may have done the same thing. Maybe if you are careful to open all the diverter valves  and carefully remove all that residual, you may have a better shot at removing the iron with  stain and scale or metal out product before it oxidizes.  Just a thought....

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: shabba34 on May 04, 2006, 12:26:28 pm

Quote

I just went rounds with my electric company who informed me ALL hot dealers are liars  >:(  

Only ones that sell Marquis! :P  ;D ;D

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: East_TX_Spa on May 04, 2006, 12:32:22 pm

Quote

I just went rounds with my electric company who informed me ALL hot dealers are liars  >:(  

I'll say that most of the ones I've met in person truly are.  And I base my comment on talking to various spa salesmen at the fair and at the pool and spa expos.  I've never been in a competitor's store so I don't have first hand experience locally.

Terminator

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Bonibelle on May 04, 2006, 12:44:21 pm

First person I have met that didn't let me get a word in edgewise....And she did not discriminate...she said ALL Hot Tub Dealers...She didn't even specify what they are lying about....I wanted to ask her opinion of no bypass filtration...but. Honestly I am really a bit angry. I am trying to figure something out and have asked the bas%$^ company that I have been paying for my electric to just give me the consideration of eliminating other possibilities (like a faulty meter)....and I get this very bias ...person who really got up in my face and blasted me for even having the tub. But she did say she wished she could afford one...  I'm sorry, I usually don't get this angry, and I am just venting out of frustration and I don't like having an argument when I can't say anything or at least hit somebody! >:( >:( >:(

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: drewstar on May 04, 2006, 12:58:21 pm

Quote

First person I have met that didn't let me get a word in edgewise....And she did not discriminate...she said ALL Hot Tub Dealers...She didn't even specify what they are lying about....I wanted to ask her opinion of no bypass filtration...but. Honestly I am really a bit angry. I am trying to figure something out and have asked the bas%$^ company that I have been paying for my electric to just give me the consideration of eliminating other possibilities (like a faulty meter)....and I get this very bias ...person who really got up in my face and blasted me for even having the tub. But she did say she wished she could afford one...  I'm sorry, I usually don't get this angry, and I am just venting out of frustration and I don't like having an argument when I can't say anything or at least hit somebody! >:( >:( >:(

She didn't let you get a word in edgewise? Wow.  That's a first.  (joking! )

Bonnie. what did the Electric Company Ho do exactly? did she check your meter (how?) did she perform any audit, or help in anyway?  

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: shabba34 on May 04, 2006, 01:01:09 pm

Quote

She didn't let you get a word in edgewise? Wow.  That's a first.  (joking! )

Bonnie. what did the Electric Company Ho do exactly? did she check your meter (how?) did she perform any audit, or help in anyway?  

;D ;D ;D  He said[glb]HO![/glb] ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Bonibelle on May 04, 2006, 01:24:02 pm

Hey Drew, I know it's true I am a gabber and I will admit it, but this one...no small talk..no chance to show her all the data (I have a whole folder). She marched into my back yard and saw my tub and from there on out...forget it.
She established that my meter was Ok by using the amperage on my electric dryer and calculating something using the meter. I would have liked to have learned about that but....Then she just got into my face and said very loudly that the hot tub was just a water heater sitting out on the deck...And all the information you get from dealers is lies, they just want to sell tubs....  OK...and she has 30 years experience. I tried to explain that the energy ratings matched what my electrician got for the tub. She just ignored that completely, I guess my electrician lied too and this whole thing is a big conspiracy...to get ME to buy a hot tub..Why did they have to send me a wise ass woman? At least if they sent a man, he would have let this stupid woman ask a few questions....When I asked her to please let me just check the tub, with it off, she claimed that it was drawing 20 kWh with nothing running and that is what hot tubs do, just like computers that you think are off.....I need to let this go right now..I have hijacked T Lady's thread, sorry...

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on May 04, 2006, 09:16:02 pm

Quote

Wow, TL, that really is crappy water. Is that well water?

Nope.

Ray-F1, it's not all that bad really.....once it filters through, the chemicals are the same stuff everyone else uses.....it IS a bit rough for me to balance perfectly right now, but hey....I'm a NUUUU-B. ;)

Term, you got it.....this is from the first fill. I had to remove and clean the filters several times, but it was WELL worth the results! OUTSTANDING!
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/TatooedLady/bubbly.jpg)

Wisoki, I don't mind cleaning off the filters....it's a small price to pay for the comfort the tub provides. ;) I'm lazy...but I'm not THAT lazy!

Boni, good theory, HOWEVER.....I had 2 hoses running water in at the same time, once I realized that the hard water was just pumping out that orange mess....and I could SEE the particles coming straight out of the hose, so it's nothing that was a 'leftover' from the last fill...
As far as the electrical ho, I'd have them send her BACK over....and make sure you've got a bunch of people in the tub, enjoying it...then throw in her face that hard work pays off,  and doing less than her job the first time just because she's envious of your tub is petty..and means she gets to do it TWICE (or until it's done in a professional manner). Plus, she won't get invited to your mid-summer luau with a sourpuss attitude.  ;D

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: RPG on May 05, 2006, 01:17:06 pm

Quote

this is from the first fill. I had to remove and clean the filters several times, but it was WELL worth the results! OUTSTANDING!
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/TatooedLady/bubbly.jpg)
Wisoki, I don't mind cleaning off the filters....it's a small price to pay for the comfort the tub provides. ;) I'm lazy...but I'm not THAT lazy!

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/d3eea495.jpg)
OH JOY!!!!

The Spa Fairy

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Wisoki on May 05, 2006, 04:03:33 pm

Don't get too happy ya little fairy. That aint the same water from the orriginal photo, that's water from a different fill.

Quote

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/d3eea495.jpg)
OH JOY!!!!

The Spa Fairy

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on May 07, 2006, 07:47:47 am

Hmmmm....Wisoki, the first fill was just as bad....but if you're going to be picky, I'll go take a pic of the current water's state of filtration.....

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Wisoki on May 07, 2006, 08:53:36 am

You are damn right I'm going to be picky. It's too easy in the cyber world to give missinformation and pass it off as truth. Photos can easily be fixed, date stamps can be modified. Absolutly I'm picky. Believe NONE of what you hear and NONE of what you see on the internet and half of what you see in person. Sceptical, pessemistic(sic) call it what ever you want but if I can't touch it... There is only one place where I need not see to believe.

Quote

Hmmmm....Wisoki, the first fill was just as bad....but if you're going to be picky, I'll go take a pic of the current water's state of filtration.....

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on May 07, 2006, 11:29:17 am

As you wish, sirrah.....here is the "proof is in the pudding" picture. I had the hubby hold the lid open halfway because I was too damned lazy to open fully, and I even thought you might be a non-believer with the pic, so I made SURE to have the bromine floater in the shot, just in case you thought this was still a picture of the original fill.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/TatooedLady/filteredbromine.jpg)
By the way......I don't know WHY I posted that, as you won't believe it anyhow, since it's on the internet, and therefore not to be trusted.....but  I'm funny that way I reckon.

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: RPG on May 08, 2006, 10:57:42 am

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/d3eea495.jpg)

Oh Joy redux!!!

I seem to recall another gentleman on this forum who had a different filtration system on his spa with the same type of water quality issues:

Quote

Thanks for your reminder. :)

But that water is history now. Nothing at all happened. In fact it got worse, and looked more and more as toxic waste out of a Simpsons episode. Behold this sad water:

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa18.jpg)

Hmmmmmmm..........  :(

The mystery is solved.

The Spa Fairy

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: KarlXII on May 08, 2006, 04:54:41 pm

Quote

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/d3eea495.jpg)

Oh Joy redux!!!

I seem to recall another gentleman on this forum who had a different filtration system on his spa with the same type of water quality issues:


Hmmmmmmm..........  :(

The mystery is solved.

The Spa Fairy

Yep. Gotta get me one of those bromine floaters.  ;D

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Spatech_tuo on May 08, 2006, 05:05:15 pm

Quote

Yep. Gotta get me one of those bromine floaters.  ;D

AHHHHHHHHH, you can go that route if you chose (I'm not sure you'll be too thrilled with it) but that's not in any way an answer to your water source problem.

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: KarlXII on May 08, 2006, 05:06:23 pm

Actually my water is fine too now.
This was taken early this morning.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa34.jpg)

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on May 08, 2006, 09:39:09 pm

karl, congrats on getting your water in line! :)

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: KarlXII on May 09, 2006, 08:13:01 am

Quote

AHHHHHHHHH, you can go that route if you chose (I'm not sure you'll be too thrilled with it) but that's not in any way an answer to your water source problem.

Hey, i was kidding.  :P

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: KarlXII on May 09, 2006, 08:14:25 am

Quote

karl, congrats on getting your water in line! :)

You too, TL! :)


BTW, how many times did you have to wash your filters before the water was clear?

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Wisoki on May 09, 2006, 10:22:53 am

UNBELIEVABLE! You did that in a spa that has a filter bypass!?!??! I don't beilive it for a minute, it must be some kind of trickery! LMAO

Quote

Actually my water is fine too now.
This was taken early this morning.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa34.jpg)

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: East_TX_Spa on May 09, 2006, 10:32:35 am

Quote

Here we go again. One bath in the new water last night - water yellow this morning.. >:(

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa26.jpg)
This time I added no No Scale product. I trusted the Super Flock to catch the metals in the filter. On the new refill I will add No Scale.
Perhaps the Super-Flock did some good? Look at this filter:

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa27.jpg)

At least the filter cleaner product was good...

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa28.jpg)
Just took ten minutes of soaking, and then a hosing with fresh water to get it back into shape.

The third time is always a charm.

Karl, I am glad your water is under control.  It looks really good! :)

Terminator

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Chas on May 09, 2006, 11:00:01 am

Wait a minute - that can't really be Karl's spa!

Karl's spa had snow all aound it!

What's going on here?

;)

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on May 09, 2006, 08:17:19 pm

Quote

BTW, how many times did you have to wash your filters before the water was clear?

I probably took all 5 filters out to rinse 5-6 times each, which MIGHT be taking them out more often than necessary, but I was hoping it would help to keep them from completely crudding up.
I've got to get some filter cleaner now and start the actual cleaning instead of just rinsing....

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on May 09, 2006, 08:22:00 pm

Quote

UNBELIEVABLE! You did that in a spa that has a filter bypass!?!??! I don't beilive it for a minute, it must be some kind of trickery! LMAO

Funny, in all the chatting I don't recall seeing anyone post on this thread that bypass filtration wouldn't filter the gunk, also....matter of fact, I THINK I said (somewhere) that I'm sure it DOES do a wonderful job, but I'm just ecstatic about the job my tub does.....
In any case, this was NOT a post about bypass/non-bypass filtering.....it was about the lousy water I've got, and the results.....now if anyone ELSE here would like to post their pics of crappy water that's now crystal clear.....bring 'em out! Let's show what the filtering systems on the tubs can do!

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: Wisoki on May 10, 2006, 11:05:48 am

I was going to say "what EVER, I didn't start it!" But then I went back to the begining of the thread and , uh, yeah, well what EVER!

Quote

Funny, in all the chatting I don't recall seeing anyone post on this thread that bypass filtration wouldn't filter the gunk, also....matter of fact, I THINK I said (somewhere) that I'm sure it DOES do a wonderful job, but I'm just ecstatic about the job my tub does.....
In any case, this was NOT a post about bypass/non-bypass filtering.....it was about the lousy water I've got, and the results.....now if anyone ELSE here would like to post their pics of crappy water that's now crystal clear.....bring 'em out! Let's show what the filtering systems on the tubs can do!

Title: Re: Crappy water
Post by: East_TX_Spa on May 10, 2006, 11:09:48 am

Quote

I was going to say "what EVER, I didn't start it!" But then I went back to the begining of the thread and , uh, yeah, well what EVER!

;D ;D ;D ;D

Terminator