Hot Tub Forum
General => General info Somewhat hot tub related => Topic started by: Chris_H on June 07, 2005, 05:06:47 pm
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Since Flim Flam Man decided to post something incorrectly on his POS forum and not retract the statement because he was wrong, I thought I would correct him.
Flim Flam Man stated how Jacuzzi Premium and Sundance are now selling their spas direct to consumers. I wanted to tell you that this is incorrect. Jacuzzi Premium and Sundance just started a website to sell outdoor accessories direct to consumers. They are not selling their spas direct to consumers.
Here is the website they created to sell these accessories to consumers.
http://www.livingthespalife.com/
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Ok I guess I am really lost cause I haven't seen these post you all are talking about
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Ok I guess I am really lost cause I haven't seen these post you all are talking about
No need to worry about it because the person I am talking about cannot post here because he has been banned.
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Oh ok, makes a mental note not to make people mad on here lol :)
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Oh ok, makes a mental note not to make people mad on here lol :)
I revised my statement. Hopefully, it is more clear that I am talking about a different forum.
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Oh ok, makes a mental note not to make people mad on here lol :)
Don't worry Backpains! He has been banned everywhere (pretty much)!
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The ultimate in hilarity would be if somehow he accidentally banned himself from his own forum. Of course that would drop his post count down to about nothing.
Brewman
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The ultimate in hilarity would be if somehow he accidentally banned himself from his own forum. Of course that would drop his post count down to about nothing.
Brewman
Brewman,
I forgot how you can make me laugh! ;D
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Backpains......this is a pic of the flim-flam man
(http://home.comcast.net/~autoplay/rich/mormonjimbo.jpg)
He has been banned on just about every spa forum that's out there(besides his own self-edited site) for his out n out lies,and deceptive practices.
He uses the tactic "I'm god"....and all the other spa companies must bow in my presence. It's a marketing practice he uses to gather attention.
I gotta feel for his kids,what a way to raise/train your kids to become when they are older.
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Bump...
Just want one more day on the first page.
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OMG! How sad is that that a dealer would be so rude to all the other dealers out there! I swear it just irks me to think that a hot tub dealer would stoop to such tatics! Why not just leave everyone to their own opinions instead of trying to push your opinions on to everyone, it's just sad!
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Oh my Goodness that is hillarious!!especially after what he did to me!I am on the road of sweet victory against the Colorado CON. I have been fighting hard for 3 months and there's alot of agencies involved.SOO good job guys!! ;D
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Hey AUTOPLAY!
What's WRONG with Mormon girls? Every time I've went out with one they always DOUBLE dated!
;D
Drewski
P.S. Either that T-shirt he's wearing is getting a little ragged, or someone's been having fun in Photo Editor...
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autoplay I hope you don't expect royalties,but i borowed your photo,for my site it seems to fit there and he will see it there!!LOL ;D
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autoplay I hope you don't expect royalties,but i borowed your photo,for my site it seems to fit there and he will see it there!!LOL ;D
I'm sure he has seen it here a 100 times over, and he is just trying to figure out how the picture doesn't follow the ANSI standards for safety. ;)
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I'm sure he has seen it here a 100 times over, and he is just trying to figure out how the picture doesn't follow the ANSI standards for safety. ;)
Now that's funny!
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I just like to keep this one near the top in case Steve has any more questions abotu his family he would like to ask.LOL!! ;D
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Just wanted everyone to know, that according to the Flim Flam Man himself his spas will have an ETL listing next week. I am so excited.
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Just wanted everyone to know, that according to the Flim Flam Man himself his spas will have an ETL listing next week. I am so excited.
Does ETL offer retroactive listings?
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so if i want to see his site, how do i find it?
google "flim flam idiot spa guy???". i hear hes famous, a real legend in his own mind....
BTW....
whats with the 50+yr old "looking" guy with the i date mormon girls shirt???
Moderator note: I answered his question via private message.
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whats with the 50+yr old "looking" guy with the i date mormon girls shirt???
That's the Flim Flam Man.
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Does ETL offer retroactive listings?
I have no idea.
I don't get how this got moved. It is spa related.
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i got that much from a previous post. i guess his dating must be as believable as his spa info..... ;D ;D
i cant imagine any girls(mormon or not) hanging out in his version of reality ;)
That's the Flim Flam Man.
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i got that much from a previous post. i guess his dating must be as believable as his spa info..... ;D ;D
i cant imagine any girls(mormon or not) hanging out in his version of reality ;)
His dating. That is a joke by itself. ( I answered your question about his site in a private message.
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Im really surprised... that JA isnt a politician.
Because recently he's made comments that seem to jam his foot deeper into his mouth-- and when he continues to defend his position he tips his hand to anyone who is watching.
Below is the post that will never make it to the light of day in JA's BB.
Begin paste;
"Why would anyone believe a Hot Spring Salesman?"
Why would anyone believe an internet retailer of a virutually unknown product? Youre not helping your arguement here by challenging someones credibility, when you havent even established your own yet.
"Especially, one who has absolutely no personal experience with the spas we sell...Have you ever seen one? Have you ever sat in one? Have you ever touched one? "
Another gaff, Jim. Very very few people in the nation have ever heard of H**** Spas, let alone seen one--- heck- they havent even seen one on TV or print media for that matter- there's no distribution or marketing to speak of. Ask spa shoppers those same questions of HotSpring, Sundance, or even Cal Spas and you will get very different response- each of those manufacturers have a nationwide network of dealers, factory trained service technicians, and a marketing campaign designed to expose their products to the widest qualified audience through TV, print media and the internet. They HAVE heard of them.
YOU are CORRECT Jim,... no one can make a judgement on something that they have never seen, touched, or sat in- This is exactly why you cannot compete nationally.
To grow your business you will need to 1)Establish a dealer and service network. 2) Develop and enable a marketing campaign outside the internet- 3)Let your product do the talking.(you've been mucking that up.)
"If you look on the ETL site next week, according to Phoenix, all of our models will be listed by name, and not just by the model number as they are now ."
Next week? According to Phoenix? How come we cant see the listing now? Hmmm- maybe because there is no listing.
"You know that I have destroyed every spa salesman who has come my way with BS on all the message boards. That is why the board owners don't seem to want me there. It cuts into their profits when the advertisers are made into fools, such as you."
No, as I will attest, you werent banned from so many boards because you had any effect on the bottom line. You were banned because of your aggressive sales tactics, the arrogant, self-righteous diatribes, threats of litigation, and prognostications of doom against your competition. I have personal experience with this at Bravenet, Long Island, Whatsthebest, and others. Funnier yet, is at the time, Bravenet wasnt a commercial site- they had no advertisers or bottom line for that matter...
end paste-
whoops... Chas and all these other professionals have never laid eyes on his hottubs,.. but neither have most of the spa shopping population. Its either because of bad marketing or that hes too small... either way he's let the cat outta the bag.
I can only think of one reason why any of us spend any time on this bozo; its far more entertaining than watching TV.
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I can only think of one reason why any of us spend any time on this bozo; its far more entertaining than watching TV.
Agreed.
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Kinda like the "Bad guys" on pro wrestiling? Without them, the whole thing is pretty boring.
Brewman
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It seems that good old JA is at it pretty hard again for HS. He has calmed away from Cal Spa I guess. He is taking quotes from Chas over at this site and posting them over on his, and then his typical 20 minute dissertation begins. On his high horse, he has said he is more well known than the pres of watkins. Next week he will be more well known than President Bush. :o
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The man is so delusional. Anyone that pretends to be a Christian and quotes various passages, then the next day heads to court to defend multiple assault charges is a joke! ::)
Hitler was well known too...
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I think he likes CalSpas!Because they are UL listed and thats what his goals are. ;)
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The man is so delusional. Anyone that pretends to be a Christian and quotes various passages, then the next day heads to court to defend multiple assault charges is a joke! ::)
Hitler was well known too...
I can hear it now,"honey they are not playing nice and its making me sad" "tell them to stop" Oh my gosh anyone see the "incredibles" "He has turned into the increda boy"The evil one!
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Now the goofball is calling Chas out. Better get over there right away Chas, your honor is at stake!!
Sheesh. He must really be off his meds again. Hard.
Brewman
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He's really off his meds! :D Check out this quote posted today...
"I am preparing the "legal" papers right now for Watkins.
I am going to give them a chance to do right, then I am going to wait for a couple of months.
If they persist, then I will have no choice. I have to because it is the right thing to do when you know what I know. I simply cannot set back any longer and not proceed, because it is so damn bad.
I will be giving you a subpeona to testify in court, because I think you might actually do the right thing"
Oh my Lord...he's going to dismantle Watkins single handedly! If the man wasn't such a looney tune, someone might bust a gut laughing. Unfortunately, most just feel sorry for his family... :-/
I think he's back with those late night drinking episodes again.
The part I find most amusing is that he's been going on about Hotsprings for what...years? Now he's going to "file legal documents" and wait ANOTHER 2 months? WHAT? If he truly had a shred of anything on any company, he would have jumped on it long ago. This just goes to prove that he never anything to back up his dementia all along. Now he's blowing smoke. Most likely the smoke he just inhaled! ;D
Steve
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Yes another response that will never see the light of day in JAs forum.
"The "innocent" is that you have no clue what the company has done (illeagal)(SIC) to screw with and manipulate the market place in their favor."
"I am preparing the "legal" papers right now for Watkins."
Man it sure sounds like you got the goods on Watkins, if youre making direct accusations of illegal activity- I cant wait to hear what you got on them...
"I am going to give them a chance to do right, then I am going to wait for a couple of months."
If someone is doing something illegal or unethical and has demonstrated that they will not stop, what exactly is the point of giving them a "chance"? I mean, arent you contributing to the problem by delaying your action? In a couple of months they could distribute more than 4,000 more spas that are according to you, unsafe, incorrectly engineered, cheap, etc. WHY would you subject more 'ignorant' consumers to that?
"If they persist, then I will have no choice. I have to because it is the right thing to do when you know what I know. I simply cannot set back any longer and not proceed, because it is so damn bad."
Again-- if things are so bad and the things that they are doing are so evil- you already have no choice but to take action, right? how come you havent acted on this yet? Its kinda like knowing that a person has molested children and then waiting to tell the police while the molester continues to drive the busload of children to school every day. It makes you nearly as guilty as the perpetrator.
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We're assuming he has a grade 5 education here and has the "smarts" to understand that concept... :-/
Not the case at all. How did he make it to his late 50's? ???
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This is what I received after enquiring about his criminal record of assault charges. At least he finally admits his dark past!
"Adam, is Sandy's son. I have never showed him the post, on purpose.
If you think what I did was bad, you should be glad Adam doesn't know about you."
Spoken like a true "Christian" while bringing up your children with morals and values. ;D
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I guess Spaman is off the hook if he is concentrating on Chas again?
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I wonder why he is not bashing CalSpas?HMMM??
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I wonder why he is not bashing CalSpas?HMMM??
I'm the last person who should make fun of short attention span - type disorders. But maybe that is it?
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Another great quote
All of these spa professionals, when they are out of work, will be at my doors trying to see if they can join our team, because in a few years, we could easily dominate the market. All I have to do is want to expand to that level. I know how to, but do I want to?
Can you imagine Chas, out of work and looking for a job, coming to a Haven Franchise store and asking for a job?
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ELECTRIC HOT TUBS, SPAS & ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT
PHOENIX SPAS, INC. - Anderson, CA USA
Self-Contained Convertible & Nonconvertible Spa, Model Nos. 3000, 3010, 3020, 3030, 3040, 3050, 3060, 3070, 3080, 3090, 3040 followed by Oa, T, N, C, S, L, E, P, F, X, Z, H, B; followed by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
Self Contained Spas, Model Nos. Aztecs, Taos, Rena, Mohave, Navajo, Questa, Cimarron, Socorro, Artesia, Mariah, Santa Fe, Tucson, Corazza, Mesa, Coronado, United, Cortez.
+Evaluated to the following...
No changes yet!
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He did say his spas would be listed this week. So if they don't show up by Friday afternoon..........
Brewman
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Quoted by our resident nutcase: All of these spa professionals, when they are out of work, will be at my doors trying to see if they can join our team
This is how delusional he is. Can you imagine? :D
Back a couple of years ago, I went to his site and applied for a sales position on line as a joke. I gave all of my real information and there was a section which asked expected salary. I submitted that if I had to work for him, I want well over 6 figures.
Since then, he has always posted that "I was the Beachcomber guy making over $100,000 anually".
The man always states that he doesn't lie but I have countless instances of these lies in a folder on my computer named PUDDIN HEAD. (My wife once asked me why I have a file called PUDDIN HEAD in my documents folder... ;D Long story sweetheart!) ;D
I guess when you lie as often as he does, it just comes natural... :-/
Steve
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Steve,
I hope you never slip up and say, "Goodnite, puddin."
I know puddin isn't one of my pet names for Gina, so that shouldn't happen. I think I will just stick with calling him the Spa Dillusionist.
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Amazing how we go from my first post to Bill’s last post. He still hasn’t retracted his statement. We really do go off on tangents don’t we…
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Steve,
I hope you never slip up and say, "Goodnite, puddin."
I know puddin isn't one of my pet names for Gina, so that shouldn't happen. I think I will just stick with calling him the Spa Dillusionist.
Steve,
Is it fair to say the proof is not in the puddin' in this case?
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LOL...No, "Puddin" is certainly not a pet name I call Rhona. ;D
Steve
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Steve,
Is it fair to say the proof is not in the puddin' in this case?
Oh, this was good Spaman!!
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So Steve-
Are you the original NPW guy, then?
Brewman
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Certainly one of them... 8)
Steve
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You have my compliments, then! I found those to be hilarious.
Brewman
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Hey guys this is what I wrote to the Flim Flam Man himself. I wonder if he will get back to me.
Jim,
I know you always say that you have never lost a wet test on your Super Custom Fallburg. I would like to know if you have any customers, with a Super Custom Fallsburg, within 50 miles of Philadelphia so I can test soak it. I really want to see what makes you think your spas better than the rest.
I am serious. This is not one of those prank messages that I usually leave on your site.
I want to do this because of your comments to other professionals stating that they have never seen or felt your spas.
Thanks,
Chris
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I would like to know if you have any customers, with a Super Custom Fallsburg, within 50 miles of Philadelphia so I can test soak it.
If they don't have one in the Philly area you may find a Phoenix spa close by. Just sit in it, close your eyes and imagine what it would feel like to get that same spa for about $2k more.
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If they don't have one in the Philly area you may find a Phoenix spa close by. Just sit in it, close your eyes and imagine what it would feel like to get that same spa for about $2k more.
Thats funny! I do like you Spatech I believe we think along the same lines on almost every subject.The one maybe we can work on.-SpaMan~
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Hey guys this is what I wrote to the Flim Flam Man himself. I wonder if he will get back to me.
Jim,
I know you always say that you have never lost a wet test on your Super Custom Fallburg. I would like to know if you have any customers, with a Super Custom Fallsburg, within 50 miles of Philadelphia so I can test soak it. I really want to see what makes you think your spas better than the rest.
I am serious. This is not one of those prank messages that I usually leave on your site.
I want to do this because of your comments to other professionals stating that they have never seen or felt your spas.
Thanks,
Chris
When I asked to wet-test his spa,he told me no. He said I'm not worthy or something along those lines lol.
Give him 2 days Chris to come up with a good answer in his mind. I'm sure he's just itching to let you wet-test LOL.
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ELECTRIC HOT TUBS, SPAS & ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT
PHOENIX SPAS, INC. - Anderson, CA USA
Self-Contained Convertible & Nonconvertible Spa, Model Nos. 3000, 3010, 3020, 3030, 3040, 3050, 3060, 3070, 3080, 3090, 3040 followed by Oa, T, N, C, S, L, E, P, F, X, Z, H, B; followed by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
Self Contained Spas, Model Nos. Aztecs, Taos, Rena, Mohave, Navajo, Questa, Cimarron, Socorro, Artesia, Mariah, Santa Fe, Tucson, Corazza, Mesa, Coronado, United, Cortez.
+Evaluated to the following...
Still waiting for the changes. ;)
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When I asked to wet-test his spa,he told me no. He said I'm not worthy or something along those lines lol.
Give him 2 days Chris to come up with a good answer in his mind. I'm sure he's just itching to let you wet-test LOL.
If he doesn't find me a spa to soak in, I will be upset. I don't enjoy how he berates most professionals because they haven’t seen his spas, but when asked to see one of his spas he says no. That makes no sense. What I would like to do is sit in a Cameo, Vista, and Super Custom Fallburg in the same day and post my results on the board. I have no problem telling everyone if his spa is truly superior in the wet test result. I would then really like to be talking to him when I am done so he can point out each individual item that makes his spas different than Phoenix spas.
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That makes no sense.
I'm sorry, but are you actually expecting anything over there to make sense? ;D What I would like to do is sit in a Cameo, Vista, and Super Custom Fallburg in the same day and post my results on the board. I have no problem telling everyone if his spa is truly superior in the wet test result.
I think that would a wonderful thing. I would join you. ;D
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ELECTRIC HOT TUBS, SPAS & ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT
PHOENIX SPAS, INC. - Anderson, CA USA
Self-Contained Convertible & Nonconvertible Spa, Model Nos. 3000, 3010, 3020, 3030, 3040, 3050, 3060, 3070, 3080, 3090, 3040 followed by Oa, T, N, C, S, L, E, P, F, X, Z, H, B; followed by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
Self Contained Spas, Model Nos. Aztecs, Taos, Rena, Mohave, Navajo, Questa, Cimarron, Socorro, Artesia, Mariah, Santa Fe, Tucson, Corazza, Mesa, Coronado, United, Cortez.
+Evaluated to the following...
Still waiting for the changes. ;)
ELECTRIC HOT TUBS, SPAS & ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT
PHOENIX SPAS, INC. - Anderson, CA USA
Self-Contained Convertible & Nonconvertible Spa, Model Nos. 3000, 3010, 3020, 3030, 3040, 3050, 3060, 3070, 3080, 3090, 3040 followed by Oa, T, N, C, S, L, E, P, F, X, Z, H, B; followed by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
Self Contained Spas, Model Nos. Aztecs, Taos, Rena, Mohave, Navajo, Questa, Cimarron, Socorro, Artesia, Mariah, Santa Fe, Tucson, Corazza, Mesa, Coronado, United, Cortez.Stay away from the spa Deceptionist.
+Evaluated to the following...
Though it can't be authenticated. I see the change in the label.
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;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D
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Well it is Thursday, no changes yet! Still waiting!!!I can't hold my breath any longer! :o
ELECTRIC HOT TUBS, SPAS & ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT
PHOENIX SPAS, INC. - Anderson, CA USA
Self-Contained Convertible & Nonconvertible Spa, Model Nos. 3000, 3010, 3020, 3030, 3040, 3050, 3060, 3070, 3080, 3090, 3040 followed by Oa, T, N, C, S, L, E, P, F, X, Z, H, B; followed by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
Self Contained Spas, Model Nos. Aztecs, Taos, Rena, Mohave, Navajo, Questa, Cimarron, Socorro, Artesia, Mariah, Santa Fe, Tucson, Corazza, Mesa, Coronado, United, Cortez.
+Evaluated to the following...
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Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock, Clarice.
(Said in my best Hannibal Lechter voice)
brewman
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Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock, Clarice.
(Said in my best Hannibal Lechter voice)
brewman
Very very nice impression Brewman hun! You had me creapin in my skin! :-X
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Same olde Same olde.....
Self-Contained Convertible & Nonconvertible Spa, Model Nos. 3000, 3010, 3020, 3030, 3040, 3050, 3060, 3070, 3080, 3090, 3040 followed by Oa, T, N, C, S, L, E, P, F, X, Z, H, B; followed by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
Self Contained Spas, Model Nos. Aztecs, Taos, Rena, Mohave, Navajo, Questa, Cimarron, Socorro, Artesia, Mariah, Santa Fe, Tucson, Corazza, Mesa, Coronado, United, Cortez.
Evaluated to the following...
A representative sample of the listed devices have been tested, investigated and found to comply with the requirements of the Standard(s) for Electric Hot Tubs, Spas, and Associated Equipment (ANSI/UL-1563) and are identified with the ETL Listed Mark
Is a week equal to 7 days?
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I'm really curious as what his excuse will be for not having h**** listed.
Brewman
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I'm really curious as what his excuse will be for not having h**** listed.
Brewman
Conjuna "I was too busy trying to save the spa world,and couldn't find time to save the world from my own personal deathtraps"
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Just gonna put this here,too lazy at the moment to save it to word.
This is what I posted on the spa saviors board,doubt it sees the light of day there.
You best take em to court Jim. As you state
"As far as the ETL on Watkins products; they lost the UL listing, so they cannot use the ETL logo that states that it conforms to UL 1563 because it does not."
If what you state is fact,then either ETL is falsely advertising,or Hot-springs is. Or is it you Jim? You being a man that proportidly wants to save the spa industy,why in gods creation haven't you filed suit? You off all people,mind you.
If I had to wager,I see litigation in the near future,weather you pursue it or not.
Lastly,how can Phoenix,with a conscieous(as you like to embellish)alter a spa,and then sell it to 1 of their customers? As they KNOW it voids ETL/UL certification,isn't that in itself a direct safety violation? (after all,isn't that what you profess these testing labs are all about)
P.S. ... gotta wonder what side of the fence Phoenix will be on LOL
Dare ya to post this Mr Savior of spas
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And yes Chas,he did state that.
Here's a quote from his site,dated friday,june 17th
"If you look on the ETL site next week, according to Phoenix, all of our models will be listed by name, and not just by the model number as they are now ."
"The changes to the spas take place at the factory, until they can no longer give me what I want. Then we will apply for our own ETL listing, because that is the only ethical thing to do."
Gotta laff... so it's ethical to sell something that could potentially harm/kill someone. Gotta love him,he's good for laffs!
Oh,am I looking at the wrong ETL site? Is there more than 1 ETL site? Is this more of the same BS spewwing from hiz loins?
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It looks like he is going to buy a Cal Spa for his spa challenge. I wonder why he just didn’t go after Hotspring.
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Well, If he would like to purchase a HotSpring spa for his challenge, I would be honored to be the one to sell it to him, and I will deliver it for the price of gasoline.
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Cash.
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One more item: a new post just appears over there that says, "I chose Cal Spas because they are an obviously bad spa for Colorado ( the easiest mark ). I suspect that Cal Spas will sue us and that would give us the publicity and money we need to grow the testing facility."
Now, in the course of doing business for close to twenty years, I have never been sued. So I guess I just don't understand the system. Could somebody explain to me how it would put money into Jim's hand if Cal Spa sues him?
The part about the publicity I understand -
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Well, If he would like to purchase a HotSpring spa for his challenge, I would be honored to be the one to sell it to him, and I will deliver it for the price of gasoline.
Would you then do a test-soak in a Super Custom Fallsburg?
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Cash.
Assuming he is paying you in green bills.
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I'm guessing that in his dementia, this "publicity" he mentions will result in a deluge of sales for his company.
You gotta admire the ego of this guy (ok maybe you don't). He puts forth this silly spa challenge to companies who don't even know he exists, let alone worry about competition from, asks for them to ship him a free spa, along with a check for what, $5000?
I think I'll do a spa challenge too. Just send me your finest spa, and heck, I'll only ask for $4000 each.
Of course for saftey reasons, I'd only be willing to test a spa with an ETL or UL listing.
Brewman
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Would you then do a test-soak in a Super Custom Fallsburg?
No, the Super Custom is the one without the ETL listing. Also, I am not a fan of over-powered jets. They hurt.
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One more item: a new post just appears over there that says, "I chose Cal Spas because they are an obviously bad spa for Colorado ( the easiest mark ). I suspect that Cal Spas will sue us and that would give us the publicity and money we need to grow the testing facility."
Now, in the course of doing business for close to twenty years, I have never been sued. So I guess I just don't understand the system. Could somebody explain to me how it would put money into Jim's hand if Cal Spa sues him?
The part about the publicity I understand -
I don’t understand how getting sued is a good thing. If he is doing a legitimate test and buying the spas himself and not altering them, I don’t see how he could be sued.
Now he did state that an accounting firm would be verifying the results of the power usage,ect. Cal could possibly sue the accounting firm if they give a false report. Unfortunately, the accounting firm would be providing a “Agreed Upon Procedures Report” which can skew the results in any which way.
Don’t expect much from this.
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Couple questions....what's the difference between "super custom" and just "custom"?
2) Is Conjuna the plantiff or the defendant?
3) Shouldn't all the spas in the spa-off,by ETL/UL certified?
I love Brews idea of having his own spa-off. I'll even get it going if he's serious,and will do it as a non-profit organization. Only stipulation I'll have,and that regards to safety is.....they must be ETL/UL listed,and unchanged from the testing lab/s.
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Okay, I had to register and finally say something....
I doubt his "test" would be fair. Even with cameras on the spas, the spas, covers, or cameras could be rigged ahead of time. I can think of several ways to deceive, no doubt there are more...which would not be hard for the Deceptionist now would it!
The most neutral attempt would be to use a college, university, testing lab, etc, someone not connected with either or all parties, and have the spas checked out for proper installation and operation, then monitored independently...
But you guys already know this....
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Okay, I had to register and finally say something....
I doubt his "test" would be fair. Even with cameras on the spas, the spas, covers, or cameras could be rigged ahead of time. I can think of several ways to deceive, no doubt there are more...which would not be hard for the Deceptionist now would it!
The most neutral attempt would be to use a college, university, testing lab, etc, someone not connected with either or all parties, and have the spas checked out for proper installation and operation, then monitored independently...
But you guys already know this....
Nice seeing you here...
Didn't you at one time own a Haven?
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Okay, I had to register and finally say something....
I doubt his "test" would be fair. Even with cameras on the spas, the spas, covers, or cameras could be rigged ahead of time. I can think of several ways to deceive, no doubt there are more...which would not be hard for the Deceptionist now would it!
The most neutral attempt would be to use a college, university, testing lab, etc, someone not connected with either or all parties, and have the spas checked out for proper installation and operation, then monitored independently...
But you guys already know this....
I wouldn't be suprised at all to find out that the test results are already printed and waiting to be published.
I'm not in the industry, and even I can see why there is absolutely nothing to incent any spa mfg. to enter such a contest. It would only create negative press for the "losers". No contest, no negative press, no incentive. I suspect the results would be pretty boring anyway. For the legit test, anyways.
Brewman
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Nice seeing you here...
Didn't you at one time own a Haven?
Umm....sort of.....
if I got my money back, did I really "own" one!
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ELECTRIC HOT TUBS, SPAS & ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT
PHOENIX SPAS, INC. - Anderson, CA USA
Self-Contained Convertible & Nonconvertible Spa, Model Nos. 3000, 3010, 3020, 3030, 3040, 3050, 3060, 3070, 3080, 3090, 3040 followed by Oa, T, N, C, S, L, E, P, F, X, Z, H, B; followed by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
Self Contained Spas, Model Nos. Aztecs, Taos, Rena, Mohave, Navajo, Questa, Cimarron, Socorro, Artesia, Mariah, Santa Fe, Tucson, Corazza, Mesa, Coronado, United, Cortez.
+Evaluated to the following...
ETL says it is "still under investigation
as of this morning.
I called ETL 8 weeks ago, is it so difficult that it takes this long?
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Spaman,
I see your buddy Jim is at it again and this time he says he's going to buy one of your spas to test against his. Care to guess which will win? I'll bet he's already written up the data report and conclusions even though he hasn't started the testing (that way he'll have them ready to post in a more timely manner).
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Spaman,
I see your buddy Jim is at it again and this time he says he's going to buy one of your spas to test against his. Care to guess which will win? Maybe your home office should send him a cease and desist order against posting his bogus results. I'll bet he's already written up the data report and conclusions even though he hasn't started the testing (that way he'll have them ready to post in a more timely manner).
I can only hope I am lucky enough to be able to sell it to him.He can't even legally install his spa in the state of Colorado,I don't know how he plans to do a challenge with it,unless he takes it to Wyoming.
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Why can't he install a Cal Spa?
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Ok, if the name Jim A is the one you all are talking about, I'm reading it now what a JOKE! Like if he's going to do a damned challange why use a tub that hardly no one has any respect for??? Why not one of the top challangers like jacuzzi or sundance or caldera or hs, geeez dumb and dumber are over there!
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I can only hope I am lucky enough to be able to sell it to him.He can't even legally install his spa in the state of Colorado,I don't know how he plans to do a challenge with it,unless he takes it to Wyoming.
He can install a Cal Spa "his spa" meant a "Super Custom Fallsapart"
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It's now one week past the listing deadline. I'm not thinking there's anything new to see.
Brewman
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Brewman- Of course theres nothing new to see... this is just how he works. He makes these claims specifically to get attention on him and his product - It doesnt seem to matter that he never delivers-
Case in point- I took him up on his ridiculous 'spa challenge'. I told him I would put up a refurbished 1989 Hot Spring Classic against his top spa, but he'd have to put his money where his mouth is. The deal I laid out was if my 14 year old tub beat his in any section of his challenge, he would pay for all my travel and 'challenge' related expenses.
This, from his perspective should have been an easy $5,000.00. Instead of taking me up on my offer, I got excuses; like he'd have to make a special 110v version of his spa to make the spas even, that I wasnt a representative of a manufacturer with a new spa, yada yada yada... So- no challenge, even though according to him, my old tub was way outmatched.
The throwing down of the gauntlet is only that- he's counting on no one taking up his gauntlet so that he can proclaim to the kool-aid drinkers that ALL manufacturers are so afraid of him that they would never allow their spa to be exposed as an inferior product to his... because most ignore him, his 'prophecy' becomes true.
In my opinion, he is an unscrupulous, fatuous boor. While its amusing to poke the bonehead with a stick, the results are nearly predictable to a fault.
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The sad thing is that every so often someone falls for his line, and he takes another victim.
I guess you are right, though. He knows no spa maker pays him any attention, since he is absolutely no threat competition wise. But it gives him yet another excuse to get up on his pulpit and preach to his audience of 4.
It would be interesting to list the failed predictions:
1. Hot Springs is going to jail for making illegal spas.
2. Cavein spas will be ETL listed by June 24th.
Brewman
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Funny you say audience of 4. I think that is exactly it anymore. I've been watching all year and his posting and responding to himself is increasing and if you look month to month, the few other posters are different each month, I have to think even his posters/recent buyers are starting to see the light. Maybe his site is actually starting to work against him? (I haven't been watching as long as many of you though)
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I posted this on Jim's board. Hopefully, he doesn't delete it.
Jim,
Are you familiar with the ANSI 1563 standard for portable spas?
Please tell me what you know.
Thanks,
Chris
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I actually feel sorry for JA....not sure why! I'm not sure if you've all read his message board, but he's being sued! Somehow he thinks that being sued is going to help him?
I guess, as myself a previous small business owner (pool service) I have a little piece of my heart that feels bad for him. I've always been an entrepreneur and love seeing the little guy survive and prosper.
Then I remember back to the year 2000 when I was a manager of a HS store less then 20 miles from him, I use to get so mad at his propaganda. How could one man type complete lies and get away with it? I remember my boss said don't even worry about it...do you ever even hear of him? The answer was no. I take that back on the 4th of July in 2000 we were unbelievably busy with myself and another sales person, I had two customers that had just been at his store and both persisted on wet testing! At that time we had a Jetsetter, Landmark, and Grandee wet. One couple was looking for a small tub, the other a large tub. To make a long story short I said hop in..that day I sold nine spas the most I've ever sold in a day. Still to this day I believe it was because one couple were sitting in a Jetsetter saying how great it was....the other were in the Grandee! They both bought! So yes JA has lost a wet test! I never heard his name again! He really doesn't exist in CO.
Back to the point, I think JA is on his last legs! I feel bad for that, because in some twisted weird way I think he cares about the spa industry. He's obviously to old too realize his way is not the only way. HS should of sued him long ago!
The sad part is that for some reason, JA thinks being sued is going to help him. He is playing his last card! I think JA bluffed the wrong company.
The above is all in my opinion.
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The above is all in my opinion.
Shared by others.
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I posted this on Jim's board. Hopefully, he doesn't delete it.
Jim,
Are you familiar with the ANSI 1563 standard for portable spas?
Please tell me what you know.
Thanks,
Chris
Amazingly,he responded,and didn't make a novel out of it lol. His answer is obvious(short n sweet)as,the Conjuna we all know,would have ripped any and all spa manufacturers for compliance of said specs etc.
At this point I don't think it matters what he says,as what he has said is well documented,and will be revealed.
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Just sitting here wondering why JA hasn't went on his marketing campaign! Now is his chance! JA are you scared now?
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Hey all,
I'll be the court reporter! I tried once to post to JA site he did not respond! Hmmm
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I thought this thread had run its course and had nothing new in over a week. And I hate risking having the subject of JA dominate this forum so I locked it. Most of you who don't fly off the handle with out provaction know you can always start another thread right? I'm a little tired of one man's childish tirades everytime something doesn't go his way, so we may not see him for awhile.