Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: KarlXII on April 12, 2006, 03:02:56 am
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Yesterday evening I tried my first chlorine shock.
I used 3,5 tbs dichlor.
The water looked fine yesterday, but I thought it was time anyway to do it since we've been in every night for almost a week. I thought I did it by the book - but see what happened! :o
What could this be, and how do I fix it? My theory right now is that I've had iron in the water that's been oxidized by the shock, so that's rust making the water discolored. I've added some No Scale just in case. I guess that would have showed earlier this week if that was the case, but I can't think of anything else.
The alkalinity is slightly low- appx 80, pH is 7.2 and chlorine level this morning was 5 ppm. This was read off a test stick.
Any ideas? :-[
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/shock.jpg)
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It sounds and looks like you have minerals in the water. The shock oxidizes the minerals out of solution and that is how you get the green color. I have seen this cleared up with a water clarifier. You put the clarifier in, turn on all the pumps, and wait for the bubbles to foam up. Then take a scooper of some sort and remove the bubbles. You may even see what looks like dirt on top of the bubbles. Doing that for 10-20 minutes should clear things up.
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It sounds and looks like you have minerals in the water. The shock oxidizes the minerals out of solution and that is how you get the green color. I have seen this cleared up with a water clarifier. You put the clarifier in, turn on all the pumps, and wait for the bubbles to foam up. Then take a scooper of some sort and remove the bubbles. You may even see what looks like dirt on top of the bubbles. Doing that for 10-20 minutes should clear things up.
What kind of water clearifier would that be?
Are you sure there will be bubbles?
:o
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I'm curious if a Metal Gone product on initial fill up have helped at all?
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I'm curious if a Metal Gone product on initial fill up have helped at all?
Well, I put the product in there, and it hasn´t reacted to normal dichlor usage. The No Scale product is, from what I've gathered, a similar product.
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I'm wondering why the ozone didn't trun the water before the chlorine did. :o
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The specific water clarifier we use is called "Super Blue." It is a real thick liquid that sticks particles together and brings them to the surface so they can be skimmed off.
Also, the silver and white spas really show off the green water a lot more than other colors.
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Now I've added some Clear & Bright plus more No Scale and run the clean-program several times.
It still looks like...not good.
And now there´s a nice brown rim in there too. ::)
You've got a point there, Hottubdan. But perhaps the ozone is more of a bacteria killer than an oxidizer.
SerjicalStrike: I cannot get my hands on that product over here....
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No one really knows what this is, huh?
Not even here.
Jeez. What have I got myself into? :-/
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Now don't fret, it's simply a water care issue and not a spa related problem. Water care problems can be resolved fairly simply.
I wish I could offer more than just moral support, but we have really good water here and I've never seen water do like yours has done. Hopefully some of the water care experts on here will figure it out. ???
Terminator
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Maybe try putting some pH increaser in there and see what happens.
Terminator
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Maybe try putting some pH increaser in there and see what happens.
Terminator
Thanks Term, for the moral support. Yes, I'll do that. I need to get that alkalinity up a bit.
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On your initial fills, use 1/4 cup of stain and scale control. Add nothing for 24 hrs., then balance and shock. Then add 2-4 capfuls weekly to keep up the residual.
That will solve it. We have many people with your same well conditions. It's not a try this.......THIS WORKS!
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Yesterday evening I tried my first chlorine shock.
I used 3,5 tbs dichlor.
The water looked fine yesterday, but I thought it was time anyway to do it since we've been in every night for almost a week. I thought I did it by the book - but see what happened! :o
What could this be, and how do I fix it? My theory right now is that I've had iron in the water that's been oxidized by the shock, so that's rust making the water discolored. I've added some No Scale just in case. I guess that would have showed earlier this week if that was the case, but I can't think of anything else.
The alkalinity is slightly low- appx 80, pH is 7.2 and chlorine level this morning was 5 ppm. This was read off a test stick.
Any ideas? :-[(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/shock.jpg)
How did you get yourself to levitate so high for that overhead picture David Blaine. ;D
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How did you get yourself to levitate so high for that overhead picture David Blaine. ;D
That was no problem whatsoever when I saw the color of that water. ;)
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Has it gotten any better?
Terminator
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I went to a Pool & Spa store today and got me some serious chemicals. I've just dumped some Super-Flock into the skimmer, supposedly it sticks to the filter and draws metals and minerals out of the water.
I'll report back tomorrow.
Oh, one more thing. My alkalinity was below the scale. I had to up it with 5 tbs bicarbonate. Strange.
But I still got that impressive yellow color. :D
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serious chemicals? I thought they were ALL serious? ;) Anyhow, someone who actually KNOWS....is the stuff Karl's referring to similar to the stain/scale remover stuff, is it a clarifier.....?
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Super-flock sounds like a settling agent used to drop suspended particles out of water in a swimming pool. Usually in a pool, it's added with pump running, then you shut off the pump overnight and it settles particles(like dirt, dead or live algae, etc) to the bottom. Not the right stuff. Is it labeled for us in a spa?
Should just rely on the larger stain and scale dose, and give it time to go back into solution. Do not super-chlorinate or super-oxidize until it is back in solution. You can go to the next Step and use SparkleUp (by bioguard). It's a wood pulp dirivative that coats your spa filter and works with the stain and scale control to remove it from the water.
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Super-flock sounds like a settling agent used to drop suspended particles out of water in a swimming pool. Usually in a pool, it's added with pump running, then you shut off the pump overnight and it settles particles(like dirt, dead or live algae, etc) to the bottom. Not the right stuff. Is it labeled for us in a spa?
Should just rely on the larger stain and scale dose, and give it time to go back into solution. Do not super-chlorinate or super-oxidize until it is back in solution. You can go to the next Step and use SparkleUp (by bioguard). It's a wood pulp dirivative that coats your spa filter and works with the stain and scale control to remove it from the water.
Actually it is something like that. It does not flock particles to the bottom, it puts a coating on the filter in which the metals and minerals sticks. Sort of. :)
Most of the products you guys talk about is not available here...
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There's no visible difference yet. :(
If I can't see any change in water color by tonight, I'll emtpty, clean & refill.
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silly reminder, but......one chemical at a time.....then wait for a couple/few hours to let the chemical do "its thing" before adding anything else......I recall this post someone made about adding stain/scale, chlorine and something else(??) that made the water turn into goo..... :o
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silly reminder, but......one chemical at a time.....then wait for a couple/few hours to let the chemical do "its thing" before adding anything else......I recall this post someone made about adding stain/scale, chlorine and something else(??) that made the water turn into goo..... :o
Thanks for your reminder. :)
But that water is history now. Nothing at all happened. In fact it got worse, and looked more and more as toxic waste out of a Simpsons episode. Behold this sad water:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa18.jpg)
I put in a submersible pump and emptied it in 20 well-spent minutes. After that, I cleaned it out and started refill - with the same well water. ::) But look at the difference between old water coming out and fresh water coming in:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa19.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa20.jpg)
I made some interesting experiments.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa21.jpg)
The glass on the left:
I filled it with my tap water from the well, and added half a teaspoon of dichloride. It immediately turned yellow.
The glass in the middle: This is bottled drinking water. Half a teaspoon of dichloride - it´s still crystal clear.
The glass to the right: Thats the same tap water as in the first glass, but here I added a teaspoon of MPS. Still clear. I'm gonno go with this for a while and see how it turns out. Seems like dichlorine shocking is out of the question...
:-/
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that was a good experiment......seems that you have at least an answer, but now you cannot use chlorine? So if mineral oxidation is the issue, what if you added stain/scale stuff FIRST? Or would bromine be a thing to try instead? Doesn't seem advisable to rely on just MPS for sanitation, from what I have learned here.
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that was a good experiment......seems that you have at least an answer, but now you cannot use chlorine? So if mineral oxidation is the issue, what if you added stain/scale stuff FIRST? Or would bromine be a thing to try instead? Doesn't seem advisable to rely on just MPS for sanitation, from what I have learned here.
Right. Well, it seems as if I can handle daily sanitation with chlorine, but have to shock with MPS. Smaller amounts chlorine doesn't bring out the yellow stuff, it hasn't this far anyway.
I just have to improvise.
What can happen if I use MPS for daily sanatation as well?
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Karl, I am making a guess here but I bet you have iron in your water, it reacts with the chlorine making the rusty mess that you have in your tub. How did you clean your filters? I have a water softener system because I get iron sometimes. I turn the softener off to fill my tub. When I did my last refill, I must have got a nice "plug" of iron because as the footwell was filling, I noticed the water looked like tea. Like T-Ladys said, I slowly added my chemicals starting with the stain and scale remover, allowing the water to thoroughly circulate before adding TA, Ph or shock. The water cleared beautifully. I use Bromine but I think the reaction probably would have been similar to yours if I didn't assure that the iron was sequestered and removed by the filters before I added the shock. My filters looked nasty like rust, but they did a great job of cleaning that out of the water. I don't know if that helps you but you experiment pretty much indicates to me that you have iron in your water. :-/
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Well, I put the product in there, and it hasn´t reacted to normal dichlor usage. The No Scale product is, from what I've gathered, a similar product.
No Scale product is not the same as Metal Gon. If you have not used Metal Gon, find a spa store that sells Leisure Time products, buy the bottle and use the whole bottle. It specifically sequesters metals. Others prevent scale...very different. There may be other products on the market that do the same thing, but my experience and what I read on boards is that Metal Gon is one of the best.
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Tony, I used stain and scale by BioGard, according to the bottle, it will do both. I know I definately had iron in the water in my tub and this product cleared it from the water and it collected on my filter. It took me a while to get my filters clean and they still have some rusty looking areas, but I think I would have had the same situation as Karl, if I had not removed the free iron before it was oxidized by the chlorine. He may need something stronger though.
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Use the metal product as 1st step. You might be able to find a filter to put on the end of your hose the pulls some of the metals out.
You cannot use MPS as sanitizer. It is merely an oxidizer...does not kill.
Try using the chlorine as the sanitizer, MPS as ozidizer.
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Thing is, I don't think we have as efficient chemicals as you guys over here. And it's hard to find, too.
I'll just have to improvise as I go. Right now I have the Super-Flock product in it, Hopefully that catches the iron before it oxidizes.
I will do chlorine after bath, and shock with MPS next time. :)
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The glass in the middle: This is bottled drinking water. Half a teaspoon of dichloride - it´s still crystal clear.
Problem solved - just fill it up with Dasani and you're good to go!! ;)
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Thing is, I don't think we have as efficient chemicals as you guys over here. And it's hard to find, too.
I'll just have to improvise as I go. Right now I have the Super-Flock product in it, Hopefully that catches the iron before it oxidizes.
I will do chlorine after bath, and shock with MPS next time. :)
Here we go again. One bath in the new water last night - water yellow this morning.. >:(
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa26.jpg)
This time I added no No Scale product. I trusted the Super Flock to catch the metals in the filter. On the new refill I will add No Scale.
Perhaps the Super-Flock did some good? Look at this filter:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa27.jpg)
At least the filter cleaner product was good...
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/slipsen/spa28.jpg)
Just took ten minutes of soaking, and then a hosing with fresh water to get it back into shape.
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Problem solved - just fill it up with Dasani and you're good to go!! ;)
I gave Evian a call this morning. ;)
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2 suggestions for you..
1) Do you have a water softener or water treatment system of some sort on your well? If so, try using water from the softener (if you aren't already). You can add calcium to bring the hardness back up. This is what I do, since we have a very high iron content. Some will disagree with this method, but I've been using it for 3 yrs with no problems. My dealer said no problem given our well water.
2) I have seen people mention hose end filters to use when filling that are supposed to remove iron and other minerals. Not sure where to get them, but that might be an option also.
Good luck!
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2 suggestions for you..
1) Do you have a water softener or water treatment system of some sort on your well? If so, try using water from the softener (if you aren't already). You can add calcium to bring the hardness back up. This is what I do, since we have a very high iron content. Some will disagree with this method, but I've been using it for 3 yrs with no problems. My dealer said no problem given our well water.
2) I have seen people mention hose end filters to use when filling that are supposed to remove iron and other minerals. Not sure where to get them, but that might be an option also.
Good luck!
Thanks for your advice.
Problem is - I already got that.
I have a filter like this (http://www.advancedh2o.com/products/brochures_html/rural/greensand.html) right after the pump. The water then goes into a filter with activated carbon. And it still does this. Amazing, isn't it?
I think I may have to renew the activated carbon, when I think about it. But still, the other filter should remove the iron...
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Somehow I have been skipping over this thread until now. Sorry. BonnieBelle gave you the right answer. You have iron in your water and when you hit it with chlorine this rusty color is what happens. You need to remove the iron. The best way to do that is to hire a filtration company to come out to your place with a bank of high grade carbon filters. Here in Florida this costs maybe $30.00 or so for a pool. There are chemical options, too, but you would have to check with a pool and spa chemical dealer for specific recommendations as I don't know what is available there.
Regards,
Bill
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So I've been running on the same water for over a week now.
No. Shock. Yet. And no yellow water.
But today something happened. The water got very cloudy, but still with a nice fresh color.
I poured in some "Bright & clear" and lowered the pH to 7.0.
I also put some MPS in there....let's see what happens.
I'm not really sure if the dose was considered a shock or not - och put in six teaspoons. And I don't know if it's buffered MPS. I'm really flying by the seat of my pants right now. :P
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Karl, got this from the University of Conn. coop Extension Service.
Symptom Cause Treatment
Water clear when drawn, Dissolved iron or Water softener (less than 5 mg/L of
reddish-brown or black particles manganese. iron)
appear as water stands; reddish- Aeration (less than 25 mg/L of iron).
brown or black stains on fixtures Oxidation/Filtration (less than 15
or laundry. mg/L of iron plus manganese).
Chlorination-Filtration (greater than
10 mg/L of iron).
Water contains reddish-brown Iron particles from Raise pH with neutralizing filter that
particles when drawn; particles corrosion of pipes also filters particles.
settle out as water stands. and equipment.
Water contains reddish-brown Oxidized iron, Particle filter (if quantity of oxidized
or black particles when drawn; manganese, or both material is high, use larger filter than
particles settle out as water due to exposure of in line, e.g. sand filter).
stands. water to air prior to
tap.
Reddish-brown or black slime Iron bacteria. Kill bacteria masses by shock treat-
appears in toilet tank or from Manganese bacteria. ment with chlorine or potassium
faucet. permanganate, then filter; may re-
quire continuous feed of chlorine or
potassium permanganate, then filter.
Reddish or black color that Colloidal iron, Chemical oxidation with chlorine or
remains after 24 hours. manganese, or both. potassium permanganate.
Organic-complexed
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Just curious...do you use a Nature 2 stick? I have alot of metals in my well water and found that the stick does not work for me. My water would turn green. On intial fill I add "metal out"...run filters and wait 48 hrs before adjusting ph and adding dichlor. After lots of trial and error this works for me. Once in a while I will use Sea Clear clarifier if the water looks cloudy. Other wise I shock weekly with MPS and add dichlor every evening after use. So far, so good. By the way, my water has very lo calcium out of the tap so I adjust that as well. Good luck. :) P.S. Be sure to clean your filters after waiting the 48 hrs after metal out.
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Karl, got this from the University of Conn. coop Extension Service.
Symptom � � � � � � � � � � � � � �Cause � � � � � � �Treatment
Water clear when drawn, � � � � � �Dissolved iron or � �Water softener (less than 5 mg/L of
reddish-brown or black particles � manganese. � � � � � � �iron)
appear as water stands; reddish- � � � � � � � � �Aeration (less than 25 mg/L of iron).
brown or black stains on fixtures � � � � � � � � �Oxidation/Filtration (less than 15
or laundry. � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �mg/L of iron plus manganese).
� � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �Chlorination-Filtration (greater than
� � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �10 mg/L of iron).
Water contains reddish-brown � � � �Iron particles from � Raise pH with neutralizing filter that
particles when drawn; particles � corrosion of pipes � �also filters particles.
settle out as water stands. � � � �and equipment.
Water contains reddish-brown � � � �Oxidized iron, � � �Particle filter (if quantity of oxidized
or black particles when drawn; � � � �manganese, or both � �material is high, use larger filter than
particles settle out as water � � � �due to exposure of � �in line, e.g. sand filter).
stands. � � � � � � � � � � � � � water to air prior to
� � � � � � � � � � � � �tap.
Reddish-brown or black slime � � � �Iron bacteria. � � �Kill bacteria masses by shock treat-
appears in toilet tank or from � � � �Manganese bacteria. � ment with chlorine or potassium
faucet. � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � permanganate, then filter; may re-
� � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �quire continuous feed of chlorine or
� � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �potassium permanganate, then filter.
Reddish or black color that � � � �Colloidal iron, � � �Chemical oxidation with chlorine or
remains after 24 hours. � � � � � manganese, or both. � potassium permanganate.
� � � � � � � � � � � � �Organic-complexed
� � � � � � � � � �
This really tells me that I need to fix my tap water filter system.
I must get a service guy to look at it.
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Just curious...do you use a Nature 2 stick? I have alot of metals in my well water and found that the stick does not work for me. My water would turn green. On intial fill I add "metal out"...run filters and wait 48 hrs before adjusting ph and adding dichlor. After lots of trial and error this works for me. Once in a while I will use Sea Clear clarifier if the water looks cloudy. Other wise I shock weekly with MPS and add dichlor every evening after use. So far, so good. By the way, my water has very lo calcium out of the tap so I adjust that as well. Good luck. :) P.S. Be sure to clean your filters after waiting the 48 hrs after metal out.
Thanks. Thats just about how I've been treating it the last 1.5 week. Hope it stays under control. :)
Wow. I just ordered at mineral stick, but I haven´t used one yet. Perhaps it no good idea then...?