Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: NE-Phil on April 04, 2006, 08:20:23 pm

Title: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: NE-Phil on April 04, 2006, 08:20:23 pm
I've been reading a thread Drewstar started called "Siphon trick or foolish user?" and it got me thinking about a related problem that's been bugging me.

Once you remove most of the water from the tub using your favorite method, how do you remove the last ½" of water from the bottom of the tub and the deep seats? I haven't found a good method for this. I tried using a shop vac but it fills too fast and it's a pain to haul it out each time and then dump it - I'm not lazy, I have lower back problems that flair up.  

Currently, I grab an old towel, let it soak up the water and then squeeze it out into a 5 gallon bucket. When the bucket fills I empty it out. There's got to be a better way. The constant up and down isn't good for my back, its time consuming and it's the most tedious part of emptying the tub. :P

I'm ready for a better alternative. Suggestions anyone? ???

Phil
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on April 04, 2006, 08:24:02 pm
I'm not really "up" on shop vacs....but can the top be taken off so it just sucks up the water and shoots it out the other end of the hose, maybe next to the tub, if it's not a lot of water (and the tub is outdoors, that is)?
I read awhile back about one user that uses a bleach (?) jug, cut into a scoop and that works for him....

That's a good question though, and I'll keep an eye on this post, as the Grandee has a lot of deep seats that seem like they'll pose a problem.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Pathfinder on April 04, 2006, 08:26:56 pm
If you dont mind spending a little money to save your back

look at purchasing a little Giant submersible pump  they are around $100  but drains much  faster, they have a thermal overload protector  and the suction is on the bottom to grab almost every last drop
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on April 04, 2006, 08:27:35 pm
by the makers of the Little Giant ladder, perchance?
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Pathfinder on April 04, 2006, 08:28:43 pm
not too sure on that one
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: NE-Phil on April 04, 2006, 08:48:07 pm
Quote
If you dont mind spending a little money to save your back look at purchasing a little Giant submersible pump  they are around $100  but drains much  faster, they have a thermal overload protector  and the suction is on the bottom to grab almost every last drop

Pathfinder,
The submersible is a great way to go and I do use that along with a 2nd hose using suction. The submersible I use does suction from the bottom but even with that, it leaves a ½" of water. I'm always afraid if I leave it too long I'll burn out the motor. Also, it doesn't do much for the deep seats as they have a rounded bottom.

Keep those ideas coming, folks! I know someone has an elegant but simple and efficient method.

Phil
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Bonibelle on April 04, 2006, 08:56:04 pm
Phil, I used a shower squeegy to clear off my seats, it works great and is a cheap investment. I used my garden hose syphon to pull out all but the last little bit of water. I posted a picture before of this contraption but it really works well to start a syphon in a very little bit of water


(http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3049/hose4bb.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Then I was able to finish it off with my shop vac.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: hottub.pool_boy on April 04, 2006, 09:30:15 pm
My cousin worked in a restaurant. Being the philosophical type he said imagine this: At the restaurant, we have this big vat of minestrone soup, as each day ends we top off the vat for the next day.

It's VERY probable that some portion of that soup dates back to the first can added to the vat.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Ruby on April 04, 2006, 10:12:33 pm
I use two hoses-one that drains from the drain and the second I create the suction by standard fill the hose and let it run method.  The second hose is the one I use after the tub is drained below seat level.  I use it to empty the seats by crimping it and moving it quickly to where I need it and uncrimping it.  After I get the majority if the water out that way, I quickly move it back to the main area to finish draining the tub.  I then just scoop the remaining water (which isn't much) with my hand into the main area.  Once the tub is almost drained, I get in and move the hose around (keeping it in the water as long as the suction will last.  That gets in down to very little water that I can get with a towel, only wringing it out a couple times.

I hope this makes sense.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: GoBlue on April 04, 2006, 10:32:35 pm
I use a big sponge for the seats and a Simer submersible pump that only leaves 1/4" of water.  Then I use the bottom drain that the D-1 has.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: tony on April 04, 2006, 10:51:51 pm
You could always just leave it and not worry about it.  Some of the water is still left in the plumbing anyway.  It is not going to contaminate your fresh water.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Pathfinder on April 04, 2006, 11:00:50 pm
Like tony said that little bit of water wont affect the new stuff
unless you had white algae or some sort of bacterial problem

if that half inch is a big concern  you could always trade in and go with a Hydropool Hot Tub  the bottom intake on the floor will take down all of the water with the jet pump
then use a squeegy for the rest

Theres a unsolicited plug for ya Steve
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Brewman on April 04, 2006, 11:08:08 pm
Take a bleach bottle and cut the bottom off, leave the cap on.  Use it as a scoop.  Works good for getting the water out of the contoured seats, and I can get all but the last quart or so out of the bottom of the spa.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: NE-Phil on April 04, 2006, 11:24:19 pm
OK, it looks like I'll have to live with the ½" of water especially since I'm not going to trade it in for a Hydropool. I have too many good reasons for keeping my Reward!

MARQUIS lurkers - why NOT put the drain on the bottom instead of an inch from the bottom? ? ? Where's the logic? Is it time for a redesign?

Yes, it is kind of an@l but it does bug me to not be able to completely drain it. I usually drain it because its too cloudy or foamy and I haven't been able to clear it up despite the many helpful suggestions from this forum. Girls do love their conditioner, skin lotion, etc. So I'm a little too ambitious in getting out the old water.  I wanted to avoid what hottub.pool_boy was talking about.
Tatooed Lady, Ruby and Brewman all mentioned making a scoop. Guess I'll get the gallon milk jug out of the recycle bin and start cutting.

Thanks all!

Phil
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Pisces on April 05, 2006, 12:01:52 am
A bigger shop vac with a longer hose. Leave the shop vac outside of the tub. You can even suck out the spa plumbing if you so desire.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Tman122 on April 05, 2006, 05:58:58 am
I use a small transfer pump. Very noisy but works great for every last drop. You hook a 5 foot section of old garden hose up to the suction end and use it like a suction wand for every last drop. They have a rubber impeller that is lubricated with water and even if it just sucking a few drops it will continue to work. They cost about 50-100 bucks. Fluid Transfer pump.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on April 05, 2006, 08:29:31 am
another thought I had......not as economical maybe, but it would at least dilute the last bit in the tub....run a little more water in, then scoop/siphon/vac it out. If you're having THAT much trouble with the water, and you can't get it all out anyhow....at least what's left should be a little more diluted.....
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: windsurfdog on April 05, 2006, 08:37:30 am
Quote
You could always just leave it and not worry about it.  Some of the water is still left in the plumbing anyway.  It is not going to contaminate your fresh water.

tony's comment is on the mark again.

Like you, NE, I first used a shop vac but now merely splash the water into the footwell from any seats that may hold water.  The last little bit in the footwell stays right there.....no big deal.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: drewstar on April 05, 2006, 09:04:36 am
A bottom drain is great for getting out the last 1/2 inch out of the tub (Hey New Tub shoppers look for this).. But yea, the seats will have some water.  I usually take a towel and mop it up.  I think I will try the shop vac route next time. It's an 8 gal, maybe 10 gal vac, which I think should be large enough, but after reading Ne-Phil's post, now I'm not too sure.  ???

If it's a crappy day out, (rainy or cold)  and the water wasn't too bad,  I'd don't sweat it  and leave a bit in there.   I am only anal about getting all the water completey out and having the tub bone dry if I am waxing the shell,  or I had a water issue.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: tonyp on April 05, 2006, 09:21:46 am
Shop Vac works great.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: East_TX_Spa on April 05, 2006, 09:28:56 am
Use this to scoop water out of the seats:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC01082.jpg)

Won't scratch the shell and moves a lot of water.

I've asked it before and no one's ever answered this question:

[size=18]Why doesn't every spa company put the drain in the bottom like a bathtub?[/size]

It just makes sense.  What is a good reason NOT to have a bottom drain?

Terminator
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Bonibelle on April 05, 2006, 09:58:31 am
there would then be no reason to get creative about removing that last drop! (My real guess is that MEN design hot tubs)   ;D
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on April 05, 2006, 10:00:39 am
now, now, Boni.....men design MAPS.....that's how 1 inch can equal 1 mile....
TUBS, however......hmmmm.....lotsa suction type stuff.....okay, they probably designed those, too. ;D ;)
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: J._McD on April 05, 2006, 10:14:50 am
Quote
MARQUIS lurkers - why NOT put the drain on the bottom instead of an inch from the bottom? ? ? Where's the logic? Is it time for a redesign?


To put a drain in the bottom of the tub it would probably raise the height 3 to 4 inches and then that does not mean the plumbing or the pumps would drain 100%.

In the interest of the last ½" this may relate to 2 gallons or even 4 gallons of water in relation to the 400 + gallons that the tub holds.  That would be less than 1%.  As they say in Jersey, "forgedd a bout it" it ain't gonna matter.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: East_TX_Spa on April 05, 2006, 11:26:16 am
A lot of people really like having a bottom drain.  They also like to see a 240 lb, bald headed salesman jump up and down in the bottom of the spa without it flexing.  Visually impressive as well as a great cardiovascular workout.

Terminator
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Spatech_tuo on April 05, 2006, 12:19:58 pm
Quote
A lot of people really like having a bottom drain.  They also like to see a 240 lb, bald headed salesman jump up and down in the bottom of the spa without it flexing.  Visually impressive as well as a great cardiovascular workout.

Terminator


Anyone ever buy that specific floor model right after seeing you complete your Jane Fonda workout demonstration in it?
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: East_TX_Spa on April 05, 2006, 12:23:35 pm
Quote

Anyone ever buy that specific floor model right after seeing you complete your Jane Fonda workout demonstration in it?

I can't honestly say as I usually don't regain consciousness for several minutes.  When I come to, I'm usually in my underwear and my wallet's gone.  Must have been some of those Costco employees Wisoki was warning folks about.

Terminator
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Bonibelle on April 05, 2006, 02:22:16 pm
Guess I should share what not to do with your shop-vac after cleaning out the tub...Dry the insides, replace the regular pleated filter...DO NOT FORGET to also dry out the hose. My shop vac is a tall thin vac with many feet of hose.  When I finished, I dried everything out (guess I forgot the hose though). I use my shop vac to pick up after my pets so I sucked up bird seed and put the vac away. About a week or so later, I took it out to vacuum up the mess from my wood stove...there was such a terrible musty moldy smell that I had to turn it off. The water from the long hose had been sucked in with the bird seed and the seed was sprouting in my shop vac. All of the little cruddies that were in that pleated filter were covered with mold...what a disgusting mess...I guess I need a designated Shop Vac! :-/
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on April 05, 2006, 02:38:19 pm
Boni *lol* kinda looks that way, huh? one for "wet" use, and one for "dry" use, maybe?
I bought 2 identical measuring cup/spoon sets....I had to mark one for TUB USE ONLY, just so I don't mix them up. Within 20 minutes of that, I mentioned to my son that the set that had yet to be unpackaged were KITCHEN use only...so he moved them right next to the tub supplies......sheesh. :-/
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: drewstar on April 05, 2006, 02:39:55 pm
Quote
Guess I should share what not to do with your shop-vac after cleaning out the tub...Dry the insides, replace the regular pleated filter...DO NOT FORGET to also dry out the hose. My shop vac is a tall thin vac with many feet of hose.  When I finished, I dried everything out (guess I forgot the hose though). I use my shop vac to pick up after my pets so I sucked up bird seed and put the vac away. About a week or so later, I took it out to vacuum up the mess from my wood stove...there was such a terrible musty moldy smell that I had to turn it off. The water from the long hose had been sucked in with the bird seed and the seed was sprouting in my shop vac. All of the little cruddies that were in that pleated filter were covered with mold...what a disgusting mess...I guess I need a designated Shop Vac! :-/



I've got a designated wood pelllet stove vac: The Cricket. Works like a charm. :^)

Shop vac? Good lord, I've sucked up things I don't want to even talk about.  :P
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: MarKee on April 07, 2006, 11:16:34 pm
NE Phil:  The reason the drain is positioned 1/2" above the bottom of the footwell is because Marquis doesn't believe in putting plumbing underneath the footwell.  From a design stand point it is a very bad idea because you would have the weight of the spa and all the water on top of plumbing.  The small inconvenience of getting that last 1/2" out is well worth it compared to having a leak beneath the footwell that would be very difficult to fix.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: mxw128 on April 08, 2006, 10:16:21 am
A lot of shop vacs have a drain near the bottom of the canister where you can also attach a garden hose.  I use mine (craftsman 16 gal wet/dry vac)  with the garden hose attached to get the remaining water out.  No water collects in the vac itself, it just drains through the hose into the yard.  

Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: LtDan on April 08, 2006, 10:38:21 am
I went the cheap route and use a gallon milk jug with the bottom cut off, having square sides makes it pick up more off the bottom with each sweep.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Chas on April 08, 2006, 10:56:55 am
Quote
NE Phil:  The reason the drain is positioned 1/2" above the bottom of the footwell is because Marquis doesn't believe in putting plumbing underneath the footwell.  From a design stand point it is a very bad idea because you would have the weight of the spa and all the water on top of plumbing.  The small inconvenience of getting that last 1/2" out is well worth it compared to having a leak beneath the footwell that would be very difficult to fix.

Interesting opinion. Thanks for sharing.
HotSpring has had the bottom drain for decades. The water weight is not supported by it.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Chas on April 08, 2006, 11:00:19 am
Quote
To put a drain in the bottom of the tub it would probably raise the height 3 to 4 inches and then that does not mean the plumbing or the pumps would drain 100%.

HS has had the bottom drain for many years now, and it doesn't raise the bottom of the tub as you suggest. Also, HS has incorporated a self-draining design for the plumbing - I think that has been in place as long as the bottom drain.

These are some of those features that don't show up on the brochure which set a high-end tub apart.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: MarKee on April 08, 2006, 01:21:07 pm
If you have plumbing beneath the footwell and you have two spas side by side with the same exterior dimensions, the spa with no plumbing beneath the footwell is most likely going to have more interior depth.

Another thing to consider is you're never going to get all of the water out of a spa.  With 500+ feet of plumbing, it is impossible to get it completely free of water, so why worry about the last 1/2" or so of water?
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: NE-Phil on April 08, 2006, 02:53:13 pm
Quote
Another thing to consider is you're never going to get all of the water out of a spa.  With 500+ feet of plumbing, it is impossible to get it completely free of water, so why worry about the last 1/2" or so of water?

...because I can see it! :o I cannot see the water in the plumbing!
- I already said it didn't make sense and, yes, I was being anal about it.

Phil  
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Chas on April 08, 2006, 03:21:53 pm
Quote
...because I can see it! :o I cannot see the water in the plumbing!
 - I already said it didn't make sense and, yes, I was being anal about it.

Phil  

It's going to be alright Phil   :)

You're not alone, are you?  :)

A spa vac might be a good choice for you then, because you can also turn most of them around and blow - which is a fine way to get the seats to empty down to the footwell, and also to get water out of those pesky jets and other items which don't respond well to suction.

Hmm. Might regret having said that last bit.
Title: Re: That Last ½" of Water
Post by: Chas on April 08, 2006, 03:26:53 pm
Quote
If you have plumbing beneath the footwell and you have two spas side by side with the same exterior dimensions, the spa with no plumbing beneath the footwell is most likely going to have more interior depth.
Not HotSpring, at least. If you set a Pre-bottom drain HS next to a current HS you will find that they have always had the bottom up off the ground the same amount. They insulate them, and have structural (pressure treated lumber) members down there and so on. The drain fitting goes between the structure, and still has a bit of insulation beneath it. It only uses 3/4" tubing, not 1 1/2" stuff, and is designed to be a low-profile fitting.

Your assumption is common though, I often hear it used to try to sell against what is a very simple feature that a HotSpring customer takes for granted.

[/sales pitch]