Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: hottub.pool_boy on April 02, 2006, 10:11:19 am

Title: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: hottub.pool_boy on April 02, 2006, 10:11:19 am: Now I know this is going to strike a cord with many here.
We are a dealer that does NOT charge an extra travel/ fuel/ or trip charge under warranty or not.

What I'd like to know from the spa owners here is--presuming: Spas under warranty and you were charged a travel/ fuel/ or trip charge.

1. Upon purchasing spa did they say there was a fee?

2.Upon your call to the dealer for service, did they tell you there was a fee?

3.Did you find out about the fee by receiving a bill?

4.Were you upset when you received the bill for the fee?

5.Did this affect in any way your perception of the dealer and any referrals you may give him?

6.If you did not expect a fee, do you now accept the fact you'll be charged for each and every visit to the spa. Does the dealer now tell you "this is what every dealer charges."

7. If the dealer told you at the time of the sale/ set-up/ or orientation of the spa would it have been acceptable then?

We've toyed with the idea of a travel charge. Most any spa warranty allows for a reasonable dealer travel fee/ trip charge.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: wmccall on April 02, 2006, 10:35:12 am: When I bought my spa, the dealer/owner told me that they charged a $25 fee, but only charged it for user induced problems that weren't underwarranty and even then usually only for the 2nd or third time. Since they were the only Dynasty dealer in Ohio at the time they reserved the right to charge that fee for customers more than an hour away. Even then they didn't always charge that fee.

Once the dealer closed Dynasty contracted with some of those techs and the were up front about a $29 fee. The one time I needed it, tried to give the Tech $40 as our ATM doesn't have $5 or$10s, but he wouldn't take it.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on April 02, 2006, 11:31:47 am: my HS dealer doesn't charge for service fees if you bought your spa through them (I don't know the distance they'll go for free, but I'm only a few miles from their store).....they WILL, however, charge fees if it's a spa NOT bought through them....but here's a perk for those that didn't purchase thru them: first trip out is free.....after that, I'm not sure the cost, but it seems that they're at least making an effort to keep people happy.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: tootsie on April 02, 2006, 11:45:58 am: My dealer handed me a flourescent pink piece of paper with the summary of warranty terms on it, and speifically pointed out that for the first 3 years there is no charge for warranty work, 4th and 5th year a reasonable travel charge would be charged.

The fact that he pointed it out and didn't try to hide it, I won't have a problem paying a travel charge if the need arises.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: spa_dr. on April 02, 2006, 12:02:46 pm: I didn't charge a "trip charge" until last summer. When gas is $3.00 + I had to change that policy. It was not profitable to do service any more. Now I charge a flat rate of $20.00 it helps cover the expence of fuel and reduces the number of "my spa has an air lock" calls. the only exception to that rule is with Cal Spas. I do charge a $75.00 trip charge with them because you never know if they are going to honor the warranty or not and when they do its "product credit". Sorry but I need to get paid.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: GoBlue on April 02, 2006, 01:17:06 pm: I just purchased my spa and my dealer did not mention any type of trip charge. Nor have I found anything in the paprework. I would be very vocal if I was charged a trip charge in the future. Changing the terms of the warranty (adding a trip charge) would be very bad form. If gas prices are adversly affecting profits, raise your prices on new items. Don't backend a customer with a trip charge.

It would be like taking an automobile to the dealer for warranty work and have the dealer charge you an extra fee because his electricity bill wnt up and he had to use alead light to look under the hood. It would be the last new car I bought from them. Get it?
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: J._McD on April 02, 2006, 03:15:15 pm: This is both a difficult and delicate subject for dealers who want to sell Hot Tubs, Care for their customers, Render prompt service, Compete with competitors for business, Have the lowest or most competitive price possible to get the shoppers business, AND stay in business with escalating business expenses.

Everything seem to be tied to fuel prices. Freight for a Hot Tub is $355 (more or less depending on geography) carries an additional 12% fuel charge of $42.60 to the dealers. Gas and Electric Store Utilities have risen substantially in the past 2-3 years, vehicle fuel prices have risen 30% to 40%, and Services that we require have additional "surcharges" or "travel charges". A recent service bill at the FORD dealership included an additional $25 charge for "miscellaneous supplies".

I would be VERY interested in knowing HOW we can handle these ISSUES and still compete with low prices and multiple water testing of spas that need to be moved around and filled in order to get the shoppers business, especially, with all due respect, when he is water testing like Duffman and others that have posted here, when they will only buy ONE Hot Tub after testing so many others.

As Dealers, we are all looking for ways to do this, especially when you want to be responsive to All consumer needs like:
the GFCI is tripping,
the ozonator is not working,
I am not getting any Ozone bubbles,
the functions don't work correctly,
the water is cold,
the stereo only gets static,
the cover lifter dosen't work correctly,
the pumps are running when they shouldn't be,
the jets don't spin or have no water flow,
the Hot Tub is leaking and losing water,
the pumps are not working,
the jets are not as powerful as they once were,
the cover stitching is coming out,
the cover locks fell off and don't work,
NOTHING WORKS,
THE WATER IS CLOUDY

And then, when you travel 35 miles one way to get out there, 70 miles round trip, you spend an hour investigating everything after restting the breaker, take the dirty filter out, rotating the face of the jet, remove the electrocuted mouse, reprogram the spa controls setting the correct time and you find NO manufacturer defect or warranty problem that caused the symptom to occur. you spend 3½ hours of time plus vehicle expenses.

If we charge a fee, it is NATURALLY ASSUMED that this is a WARRANTY Service Call and there should be NO CHARGE.

What Would You Suggest We Do?
???

I told one shopper that we charge a trip charge for non-warranty calls and he abruptly walked out. When I called a few days later, he told me he bought a Hot Tub with a $5,000 Cash Rebate and told me where to shove my honesty and integrity. 4 Months later he called us for service when his dealer closed and moved out without notice. Sorry Charlie was all I could say.

Keep in mind, every individual shopper / customer is a different personality that you must cajole and cater to to get his business, keep him happy and get referrals. Offend them in any way and suffer the consequences, BUT that dosen't seem to happen to Sam's, Costco, Home Depot or the many other discount sellers. Go figure.

It would be very interesting to understand the consumers point of view and get your feedback on this dilema situation.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: GoBlue on April 02, 2006, 06:48:33 pm: 1. Educate the customer. When I bought my first house, years ago, the real estate person sat with my wife and I and explained the whole home buying process. There were no surprizes later. If you go out on a service call that turns out to be customer caused, you should ask yourself if the customer was educated enough to fix the problem. Explain your charges in advance rather than let the customer think every trip is covered under the warranty. Usually, an informed customer will not sue you for breach of contract if you change the the warranty conditions after the sale. Also, the more the customer knows, the less they will muck things up. My dealer showed me how to purge the air from the pumps to avoid an airlock service call.

2. Respect the customer. Treat them like an adult and don't act like a used car salesman with "one day only pricing" , inflated MSRPs, or TV ads that say "No spa over 3995". I just got back from the grocery. Prices were plainly marked and I didn't have to dicker on the gallon of milk. Some of us don't go to Costco, Sams and Walmart. We don't enjoy that type of shopping experience.

my thoughts as a customer and an owner of a service company. But I've been accused of spoling my customers.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: jsimo7 on April 02, 2006, 09:29:42 pm: Quote
1. Educate the customer. When I bought my first house, years ago, the real estate person sat with my wife and I and explained the whole home buying process. There were no surprizes later. If you go out on a service call that turns out to be customer caused, you should ask yourself if the customer was educated enough to fix the problem. Explain your charges in advance rather than let the customer think every trip is covered under the warranty. Usually, an informed customer will not sue you for breach of contract if you change the the warranty conditions after the sale. Also, the more the customer knows, the less they will muck things up. My dealer showed me how to purge the air from the pumps to avoid an airlock service call.

2. Respect the customer. Treat them like an adult and don't act like a used car salesman with "one day only pricing" , inflated MSRPs, or TV ads that say "No spa over 3995". I just got back from the grocery. Prices were plainly marked and I didn't have to dicker on the gallon of milk. Some of us don't go to Costco, Sams and Walmart. We don't enjoy that type of shopping experience.

my thoughts as a customer and an owner of a service company. But I've been accused of spoling my customers.

Congrats on your customer service point of view. I bet you will be in business as long as you want to be
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: hottub.pool_boy on April 02, 2006, 09:47:09 pm: Thank you for your input. I'm surprised I haven't heard from more. Maybe it's a off night.

The reason I pose the question, because I see competitors hitting people after the fact with a trip charge and some spa owner take it soo non chalantly. Others get upset and we here about it.

If we instituted the fee we'd let people know about it.
We are not going to in the foreseeable future, but we can never say never.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: GoBlue on April 02, 2006, 10:48:33 pm: hpb, I would advise that you let new customers know of trip charges up front, in writing. Changing the terms of a warranty for existing customers would be a mistake, I feel. I know a lot of docs have that "sublect to change" clause that our legal eagles add, but be careful. We have different customers on various rate schedules.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Snowbird on April 02, 2006, 10:53:26 pm: Quote
Everything seem to be tied to fuel prices. Freight for a Hot Tub is $355 (more or less depending on geography) carries an additional 12% fuel charge of $42.60 to the dealers. Gas and Electric Store Utilities have risen substantially in the past 2-3 years, vehicle fuel prices have risen 30% to 40%, and Services that we require have additional "surcharges" or "travel charges". A recent service bill at the FORD dealership included an additional $25 charge for "miscellaneous supplies". If we charge a fee, it is NATURALLY ASSUMED that this is a WARRANTY Service Call and there should be NO CHARGE.

Quote
WOW! :o Over a year now and still seething venom, lashing out with retaliation, one evil deed deserves another and another, and another.

A day, a month, a year; it doesn't matter. A deal is a deal and I consider it a point of honor and integrity to hold up my end and I expect the dealer to hold up his. When they don't, I feel obligated to make sure everyone concerned knows what happened. At least they will be aware of the dealer's history if they choose to go to him. That is word of mouth advertising and it is the strongest thing a dealer can have going for him... or against him and he controls which way to will be.

Supppose a customer decided to refuse to pay the full price agreed upon when his spa is delivered because of $3/gal gas? How would a dealer react? He would be mad and take the spa back and probably try to keep the down payment. So what is the difference between that and the warranty fee you guys are charging?

Remember that a customer just spent big money on a hot tub probably after exhaustive research on something they knew nothing about. The dealers all had plenty of time to explain their warranty policy. Once the deal is done a dealer shouldn't be finding ways to add on fees to increase his profit or cover expenses that he failed to factor into the sale.

The customer suffers the same increases the dealer does. Who does he pass on the increases to? In my case my company has gone thru bankruptcy. Over the last 3 years, my annual pay dropped over $25,000, my benefits have been cut, my premiums increased and my pension has defaulted and turned over to the PBGC. So when a dealer whines about the same $3 per gallon gas that I have to buy, you will understand when I am completely unsympathetic.

If you are a good dealer and the manufacturer wants to keep you, they should be willing to help you with any increased expenses you incur covering their warranty for them. In response, they will increase their prices and the hidden fees will be covered in future sales.

But don't back door a customer who trusted you. Your problems are not his problems, but his problems concerning the spa he purchased from you, or a spa that you are factory certified to repair are absolutely your problems.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Brewman on April 03, 2006, 08:28:04 am: Sundance's warranty states quite clearly that the dealers have the privelege of charging trip fees.
Our dealer chooses not to charge.
And the time last year that the came out to work on the spa, they didn't charge me anything.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: orlandoguy on April 03, 2006, 09:51:57 am: I have an idea. Be honest, disclose the fees up front, and stick with your word.

It's a whole lot easier to deal with a fee if it was disclosed up front.

I don't give a s*** what someone quotes a warranty as stating regarding service fees. I go by what my dealer says when I am writing the check.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: drewstar on April 03, 2006, 10:27:57 am: My dealer told me they reserve the right to charge a fee for travel. I was a bit surprised to hear this, but soon found out that it was more the norm than the exception.

I think the worst thing a dealer can do is set false expectations, or not disclose all the cost.

J-McD, understand what you are saying, but as a consumer, I sit here and wonder how can Hotubpool boy not charge, yet you do?

What is Hottubpoolboy doing diferently than other dealers that he can get away without a service fee?
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Chris_H on April 03, 2006, 10:28:31 am: Here are my thoughts.

At the time of the sale, it is not a salesperson’s responsibility to inform the consumer if there is a mileage charge for servicing a spa. They are also not being deceptive if they don’t bring it up.

However, if a consumer asks specifically, it is the salesperson’s responsibility to be honest.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: drewstar on April 03, 2006, 10:31:06 am: Quote
Here are my thoughts.

At the time of the sale, it is not a salesperson’s responsibility to inform the consumer if there is a mileage charge for servicing a spa. They are also not being deceptive if they don’t bring it up.

However, if a consumer asks specifically, it is the salesperson’s responsibility to be honest.

I disagree with you 110 percent.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: orlandoguy on April 03, 2006, 10:56:36 am: "However, if a consumer asks specifically, it is the salesperson’s responsibility to be honest

Just the type of attitude that will definitely cause many
skeptics and pissed off customers. But hey, everyone is entitled to an attitude and a paycheck. I will go on a limb and guess this is a dealer making this statemnt rather than a customer... ???

How many new buyers know to ask such specific questions? That's like saying if you buy a car they should only tell you about a recall if you ask. Total horses***
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: East_TX_Spa on April 03, 2006, 11:02:39 am: We have never charged a service fee on a warrantied spa. Fluctuating gas prices are simply part of the cost of doing business as is the electrical cost involved in operating stores with 8 spas set up for wet-testing. You spend money to make money as my boss likes to say.

We have a HUGE territory, probably one of the biggest in the country. We have a lot of spas in the field that need to be serviced occasionally. Good scheduling can help improve efficiency by working in certain areas during the week instead of running around willy-nilly.

Are our prices higher than our competitors'? For the most part, yes, as we do have a service department and they don't. Can you buy a HotSpring spa for less money in different parts of the country than you can here? Based on the prices I see on here, you bet.

We charge MSRP across the board. This gives us enough profit margin to service our customers, keep the doors open, and not live off of Beanie Weenies year after year. We also give our customers top-notch attention and peace of mind that translates into more business through referrals. It becomes self-perpetuating and really helps if you stay with one brand year after year.

Terminator
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: orlandoguy on April 03, 2006, 11:05:35 am: I was waiting for Term to chime in. He is an exception to my growing feelings about dealers, especially jacuzzi dealers. Obviously the respect you clearly have is earned through your business ethics. Way to go, maybe it will be contagoius and I will see it spread before I get tossed from here.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Micah on April 03, 2006, 11:14:59 am: Quote
I was waiting for Term to chime in. He is an exception to my growing feelings about dealers, especially jacuzzi dealers. Obviously the respect you clearly have is earned through your business ethics. Way to go, maybe it will be contagoius and I will see it spread before I get tossed from here.

Why say "especially Jacuzzi Dealers" when in fact you only have a problem with one
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: East_TX_Spa on April 03, 2006, 11:16:16 am: Thank you for your kind words orlandoguy. It's my boss' philosophy of how to run a successful business and the employees believe in it.

We were named Territory Dealer of the Year for the 3rd time in 6 years and also awarded the Silver Club Award for doing 21% more business than the previous year. 4 more % points and we'd of been Gold! I personally made the Century Club for the 3rd year in a row (100 or more units sold) so it seems to be working. :)

Terminator
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: J._McD on April 03, 2006, 11:27:21 am: A warranty service call is intended to correct a "manufacturer's" defect or deficiency in material or workmanship. It is about product failure. Not customer neglect which accounts for more than half our calls. The Hot Tub is new and people need to read their owner's manual, it really helps. Why is all the burden on the dealer to educate, inform and to provide free service.

The problem with the consumer's point of view is that anything they presume to be a "symptom" or they notice an unusual condition about their "new" spa they naturally expect that to be a "problem" covered by the warranty.

Thus, when it is a bad breaker, the spa is wired incorrectly, a dirty filter, a jet rotated closed, or something that never happens or recurrs again, or even an the expected occurence of the GFCI tripping when you splash water on something the service man can not witness the event to indentify a problem much less fix it, but the consumer feels that it needs attention and it is the dealers responsibility even when it is NOT a manufacturer's warranty problem.

It seems to be the consencus of opinion here to say, "service should be free", whether it is warranty or not.

If you have a flat tire on your car or run out of gas, the auto make does not recognize that as a warranty problem, nor do they travel out to fix it without payment.

This thread has caused me to review the number of service calls that we have documented as "warranty" service calls for a manufacturer. They did not trigger a service charge to the customer and they left the customer with the feeling that they were being cared for over 6,812 times in the last 16 years. While a great many customers never had a single service call, some customers seem to be problematic and truely neglect their own property and do not maintain it well, resulting in what they presume to be "warranty work", yeah, that is what it is, but we call it customer C.A.R.E.

This does not even begin to address "stupid stuff" which is probably a number equal to or greater than.

We do care for our customers, all of them, but you can not please all the people all the time.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: GoBlue on April 03, 2006, 12:23:14 pm: J. I believe the thread is talking about whether to charge trip charges for warranty work. I believe you are talking about non-warranty or customer caused service calls. The difference in the two types of calls should be explained to the customer when you are explaining the warranty. If the dealer simply tells the consumer that the spa has a full 3 year warranty and does not go on to explain charges for customer caused failures, then he is asking for the headaches.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: East_TX_Spa on April 03, 2006, 12:28:08 pm: Yep, non-warranty is a whole nuther issue. We charge $60 service charge for NON-warranty. As far as filter-cleaning or breaker re-sets, every customer gets one free. After that, 60 bucks.

It's a good thing that you don't have to program any of our spas. Some of our customers are simply "rocks with lips". ;D

Terminator
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: GoBlue on April 03, 2006, 01:01:25 pm: One of our techs recently said we should make the customers pass an intelligence test before they are able to buy from us. I told him to make up the test BUT if there was one mistake, spelling or otherwise, he would be on the outside lookin' in... He declined.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Spatech_tuo on April 03, 2006, 01:08:49 pm: Quote
One of our techs recently said we should make the customers pass an intelligence test before they are able to buy from us. I told him to make up the test BUT if there was one mistake, spelling or otherwise, he would be on the outside lookin' in... He declined.

You only need to ask 1 question:

"What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?"
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: drewstar on April 03, 2006, 01:21:05 pm: Quote

You only need to ask 1 question:

"What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?"

You need to ask yourself one question.

Do you feel lucky, punk?

Well do ya?

;D
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Chris_H on April 03, 2006, 01:23:01 pm: I knew I was going to get a lot of flak for my comments, but it is the way I feel.

For the obvious reasons, I personally think sales people that work for businesses that charge the fee do not bring this fee up in their presentation. It is an omission, but it certainly is not a lie.

It is like saying the tub has a five year component warranty and not mentioning the cover has a 2 year warranty.

I understand that it could piss tons of consumers off.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: GoBlue on April 03, 2006, 01:30:36 pm: And that's OK with you. Hmmmm

Spatech: Would that be an African or European swallow?
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: J._McD on April 03, 2006, 01:34:24 pm: Quote
J. I believe the thread is talking about whether to charge trip charges for warranty work. I believe you are talking about non-warranty or customer caused service calls. The difference in the two types of calls should be……….

You are right, and I agree, But this is about the customer’s “perception”, not the written word, the educated understanding, common sense or about what was explained to them and provided in writing which can not be found or remembered, it is their “perception” that it should be covered. Every one of my examples are non-warranty and after 2 trips we charge them. The customer truely believes them to be legitimate FREE warranty issues. That is when they get upset and we hear about it. This gets their attention and some will hold it against you and refuse to pay, this also is their perogotive but, destroys the relationship.

There is a definite rule in society today that causes one to think, "the customer is always right" even when they are not. We try our best to agree with this concept and care to for their needs, but there are limits and usually attitudes interfere.

As East Tx points out………
Quote
Yep, non-warranty is a whole nuther issue. We charge $60 service charge for NON-warranty. As far as filter-cleaning or breaker re-sets, every customer gets one free. After that, 60 bucks.

It's a good thing that you don't have to program any of our spas. Some of our customers are simply "rocks with lips". ;D

Terminator
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Brewman on April 03, 2006, 01:52:56 pm: Quote

It's a good thing that you don't have to program any of our spas. Some of our customers are simply "rocks with lips". ;D

Terminator

Make that rocks with lips with disposable income.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Chris_H on April 03, 2006, 02:40:33 pm: I am personally fine with it. A salesperson is going to tell you about every superior aspect about their spa and dealership. They certainly are going to limit the amount of negatives.

I have shopped more dealers than probably most members on this forum. These dealers sell Softub, Jacuzzi, Hotspring, Sundance, Master, and Cal. I can honestly say that each and every one of these dealers charge for mileage. I can honestly say not one salesperson stated they charged for mileage.

Again any salesperson that sells for a business that charges this fee probably omits this from their presentation just as they omit stating the cover does not have the same warranty as the spa. Be as mad as you want and call me what you want, but this is the reality.

Find yourself a dealer that charges this fee then go shop for a spa. Don’t bring up the fee and see if they do.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Micah on April 03, 2006, 02:43:21 pm: Well said Chris
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: drewstar on April 03, 2006, 02:49:26 pm: Quote
I have shopped more dealers than probably most members on this forum. These dealers sell Softub, Jacuzzi, Hotspring, Sundance, Master, and Cal. I can honestly say that each and every one of these dealers charge for mileage. I can honestly say not one salesperson stated they charged for mileage.

Shopped vs Bought? How many dealers have you sat down with and discussed in deatil the warrrenty and specifics of the deal?

The only time it was brought up with me was in the final negotions of the deal. I Can understand a salesperson wanting to put their product in the best light. But when you sit down and your a new owner of a tub and your going over the finer points and start discussing warrenty, if you don't bring up that ther may be a charge, because you don't want to "look bad" then I think you are doing the customer a diservice and are not being forthright.

Yup. It is my obligation and resposibility to read all the fine print, but for you to imply that you would intentionaly omit this, to avoid looking bad....welll. get ready for a pissed of customer when you hand em a bill for $75 for "free warrenty work:

As I said, I was surprised to learn about it at first, but soon realized it was industry standard.

Do not set your customers up with false expectations.
>:(
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: hottubdan on April 03, 2006, 03:04:31 pm: Most warranties allow for a travel fee. We charge after the 1st year. This is relatively new for us. Not all customers know. They do know they are covered by the manufacturer's warranty. Most understand and are ok. A few are pissed, and we typically waive it for the them the 1st time.

Distance customers have always been charged a travel fee.

Term, if you are getting MSRP for your spas, then your customers are paying you more than mine are even if I have done several warranty calls and collected a service fee each time.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: GoBlue on April 03, 2006, 03:16:33 pm: Not telling a cutomer that the warranty includes a trip charge = deceptive business practices. And I own a service company.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Chris_H on April 03, 2006, 03:31:46 pm: I have shopped never bought. Yes, I have literally wasted probably close to 20-30 hours of salespeople’s time (not including the test soaking).

Each salesperson, I talked with, has discussed the warranty and stated the length of the warranty. They did not discuss the exclusions of it.

The majority of purchasers ask, what is the warranty? The majority of salespeople say: The spa has a five-year component warranty that includes the pump, motor, heater, and controls and what it doesn’t include are the headrests, the filter lid, the filter cartridges, or the light.

Using a Sundance warranty as a reference, note what I have omitted: the cover, the coverlift, the steps, the jets, the siding, the shell, the plumbing, ozonator, and the mileage charge.

Some things have a longer warranty or the same warranty like the shell and plumbing.

Some have a shorter warranty like the cover, coverlift, steps, jets, siding, and ozonator.

According to everyone on this forum, the comments that I just made about every component that I didn’t specifically mention was a deceptive sales tactic. Was the salesperson really being deceptive?

Most purchasers don’t go over the finer points of the warranty. Trust me ask any dealer or salesperson on this forum. It certainly is not the salesperson’s responsibility to go over every single exclusion in the warranty like the use of tri-chlor shock or the fact that the dealer charges for mileage. If the consumer wants specifics then they go over specifics. It certainly is not being misleading or deceptive.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Skellman on April 03, 2006, 03:58:46 pm: One of my first questions to all dealers I went to was about the warranty and if I would be charged a trip fee. If so, when did it start? After the 1st, 2nd year etc? It's my own fault as a consumer if I don't ask the right questions. If the dealer doesn't answer them to my satisfaction, that tells me something right there.
One thing about HotSprings that impressed me was at the back of the book they gave me it spelled out the warranty pretty clearly.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Snowbird on April 03, 2006, 04:57:26 pm: Quote
Here are my thoughts.

At the time of the sale, it is not a salesperson’s responsibility to inform the consumer if there is a mileage charge for servicing a spa. They are also not being deceptive if they don’t bring it up.

However, if a consumer asks specifically, it is the salesperson’s responsibility to be honest.

>:( >:( >:(You have to be a Thremo Spa salesman. That is the kid of underhanded crap they pull. >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Chris_H on April 03, 2006, 05:01:18 pm: Far from it.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Snowbird on April 03, 2006, 06:26:42 pm: GoBlue & Term are right. There is a difference between warranty and non-warranty repairs. And the dealer should be able to expalin the difference to a reasonable person. I believe that sentence highlights the issues are of this thread.

1st is the warranty vs non-warranty work and 2nd is the reasonablness of the dealer and the customer.

If a pump is warranted for 5 years and it breaks in that 5 years, it shouldn't cost the consumer anything to have it replaced. Further if the broken guaranteed pump damages a part that is not covered under a warranty, that should also be repaired at no cost. Regardless of what the fine print in the warranty states, no honorable dealer should be charging any fee for any warranty work unless he specifically told the customer about it BEFORE he bought the spa.

As an example, when I was discussing warranty work with my dealer she said they have sent technicians to outdoor tubs on New Year's Day to fix tubs that were in danger of freezing and did not charge any extra for it. That is all I needed to hear. If my tub should ever require warranty work there should never be any fees.

Now if it is non-warranty work, the customer has the choice of paying the dealer's price, going some place else, fixing it himself, or turning his spa into a goldfish pond. It's that way with any product, so, if his charges are reasonablre and customary, why should the dealer get upset if a customer refuses to pay his price and does something else?

Dealers do have a problem with difficult customers. It always amazes me how ignorant some people can be. In general, society has gotten ruder and stupider. There is no respect for themsleves or other people. I think it is because they have no personal pride. It seems as if the only way they can validate their existance is to bully someone, whether it is beating their kids or mistreating people in business.

But, part of being a good and professional dealer is handling them. You can get mad and tell these type of people to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. But that puts you down on their level. Instead you need to be patient. Explain the situation, tell them what you will or won't do and let it go. It takes two to argue and only one to rant. They will either see it your way or they won't. But it's no use making the situation worse by turning them into an enemy who will be gunning for you.

In my case, if my dealer charges me a fee for warranty work, they will never see dime from me for non-warranty work. I'll find someone else to pay to fix it or maybe try to fix it myself. That is the kind of underhanded sneakiness that I can not abide. But I have faith in my dealer since they have been nothing but kind and honest with me.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Snowbird on April 03, 2006, 06:29:54 pm: Quote
>:( >:( >:(You have to be a Thremo Spa salesman. That is the kid of underhanded crap they pull. >:( >:( >:(

Sorry Chis, that was out of line. SB
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: hottub.pool_boy on April 03, 2006, 10:32:47 pm: thanks again for the input.

I'm not looking to change our operation. just looking for the consumer's view on a certain subject which we hear about from time to time. These are purchasers of other spas, elsewhere, who happen to buy chems and have water tested by us.

I know it's (travel charges) left out of most sales presentations and new spa orientations. It is not right for people to find out after the fact.

I see for some it was explained at an appropriate time. Others not.

It's the deception that tarnishes the industry. We're not here for the quick buck. We are here for the long haul.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: jsimo7 on April 03, 2006, 11:10:53 pm: Quote
author=J._McD l

If you have a flat tire on your car or run out of gas, the auto make does not recognize that as a warranty problem, nor do they travel out to fix it without payment.

Not correct at all!! All GM vehicles come with roadside assistance during the warranty period. GM will pay for any reason you need help on the road or in your driveway, your fault or the cars defect. They will pay a towing company to bring you gas, unlock your car if you lock the keys inside, change a tire, they even come to your house and do these things if the car is in your driveway and you need assistance.

Read the warranty from GM, Millions are spent on advertising to customers that haven't bought. They feel spending money on customers who have already bought builds loyalty so customers will return in the future. It makes sense when you think about it
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Gomboman on April 04, 2006, 12:51:57 am: This is something I would personally work out before the purchase. As a consumer, we are not used to being charged for warrantee items. That being said, it would be much different if we could drop off the spa like a plasma tv. I guess I understand why dealers charge for warrantee work.

I would suggest being more upfront with your customers though. I would be pissed if I had to pay for a service call without being told before hand.

Has it always been like this or is it something new? Does it have to do with $3 gasoline? Maybe the factories are not keeping up with inflation etc?

Quote
Here are my thoughts. Â

At the time of the sale, it is not a salesperson?s responsibility to inform the consumer if there is a mileage charge for servicing a spa. Â They are also not being deceptive if they don?t bring it up. Â

However, if a consumer asks specifically, it is the salesperson?s responsibility to be honest.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Brewman on April 04, 2006, 08:21:28 am: Not sure exactly how far back, but 4 years ago when we were spa shopping Sundances warranty had the dealer charge provision in it. So did a couple other dealers we shopped- but none of them were charging the fee.
Our dealer didn't mention the fee, but I suppose since they chose not to impose it, there was no need to mention it. It was, however, right there in the warranty, which I carefully read on Sundances website prior to even visiting the dealer.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: J._McD on April 04, 2006, 10:13:54 am: Quote

Not correct at all!! All GM vehicles come with roadside assistance during the warranty period. GM will pay for any reason you need help on the road or in your driveway, your fault or the cars defect. They will pay a towing company to bring you gas, unlock your car if you lock the keys inside, change a tire, they even come to your house and do these things if the car is in your driveway and you need assistance.

Read the warranty from GM, Millions are spent on advertising to customers that haven't bought. They feel spending money on customers who have already bought builds loyalty so customers will return in the future. It makes sense when you think about it

My analogy has holes in it. Some auto manufacturers do provide that service but not the repairs. I had to pay what I thought was an excessive charge to replace a battery plus labor at 14,000 miles, I was a bit cheesed. All I knew was I had a service van that wouldn't start, got it to the dealership who diagnosed the problem and advised me that I needed a new battery because it had a bad cell and quoted the price plus labor. What choice did I have? I have bought 16 vehicles over time from them and they could only state the terms of the warranty and the company policy. :-/

I guess it would be simple to say, some times we pay and some times we are pleased that it was free. There is no doubt that these situations influences our attitudes. I guess the question here is, do we assume ownership responsibilities to chek out the battery or take it to the service department to be properly diagnosed and pay the consequences with disappointment.

On the other hand, much of our servie is accomplished on the telephone when we have the homeowner check a few things out. But, like East Tx says, when they are "Rocks with lips" and are insistant that they checked everthing and it isn't the dirty filter and it turns out to be the filter, IS THAT A FREE CALL. ???
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: drewstar on April 04, 2006, 10:18:14 am: Quote

Not correct at all!! All GM vehicles come with roadside assistance during the warranty period. GM will pay for any reason you need help on the road or in your driveway, your fault or the cars defect. They will pay a towing company to bring you gas, unlock your car if you lock the keys inside, change a tire, they even come to your house and do these things if the car is in your driveway and you need assistance.

Read the warranty from GM, Millions are spent on advertising to customers that haven't bought. They feel spending money on customers who have already bought builds loyalty so customers will return in the future. It makes sense when you think about it

Yea, but take your car into the shop to repair something covered under the warrenty, and you will still pay a surcharge of about $50.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: jsimo7 on April 04, 2006, 10:28:33 am: Quote

Yea, but take your car into the shop to repair something covered under the warrenty, and you will still pay a surcharge of about $50.

You should not have to No GM dealers in our area charge that for GM repairs. In fact they include a free transportation or a rental car at no charge
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: drewstar on April 04, 2006, 10:41:01 am: Quote
You should not have to No GM dealers in our area charge that for GM repairs. In fact they include a free transportation or a rental car at no charge

That's great. I know Nissan charges the fee, and it annoys me to no end. My wife swears by Nissan and tells me to keep my big mouth shut when I pick her truck up at the dealer. Grrrrrrrr.

I hate Fees for warenty work.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: jsimo7 on April 04, 2006, 11:13:53 am: Quote

My analogy has holes in it. Some auto manufacturers do provide that service but not the repairs. I had to pay what I thought was an excessive charge to replace a battery plus labor at 14,000 miles, I was a bit cheesed. All I knew was I had a service van that wouldn't start, got it to the dealership who diagnosed the problem and advised me that I needed a new battery because it had a bad cell and quoted the price plus labor. What choice did I have? I have bought 16 vehicles over time from them and they could only state the terms of the warranty and the company policy. :-/

GM warranty will cover the total cost of the battery and labor to install it and the road service or towing (if needed) if it is defective, has a bad cell, or will not hold a charge anytime within the warranty period. They will provide free transportation back to your home or office also but not a rental car for this repair because this is a quick repair and can be done in a short time. If you have a GM van and the dealer charged you he was paid by GM and also paid by you.
Jmcd I think you feel the concerns that spa owners feel when charges are added during the warranty period when the terms of the warranty are not disclosed upfront.
Advice to dealers, disclose the terms of the warranty, educate your customers what charges are thier responsiblity and you will have less headaches when charges are needed to complete the warranty repairs. :) 8)
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Wisoki on April 04, 2006, 11:56:35 am: Let's see, now which auto maker was it that recorded multiple billions in losses this past year. Dang I can't seem to remember who that was.....In the words of Dr. Phil "Hows that workin for ya!"

Quote

Not correct at all!! All GM vehicles come with roadside assistance during the warranty period. GM will pay for any reason you need help on the road or in your driveway, your fault or the cars defect. They will pay a towing company to bring you gas, unlock your car if you lock the keys inside, change a tire, they even come to your house and do these things if the car is in your driveway and you need assistance.

Read the warranty from GM, Millions are spent on advertising to customers that haven't bought. They feel spending money on customers who have already bought builds loyalty so customers will return in the future. It makes sense when you think about it
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: jsimo7 on April 04, 2006, 12:20:20 pm: Quote
Let's see, now which auto maker was it that recorded multiple billions in losses this past year. Dang I can't seem to remember who that was.....In the words of Dr. Phil "Hows that workin for ya!"

Not from warranty claims or the road service. The contracts that were signed by GM and the unions in the 70's 80's and early 90's were way to generous to the employees and retiries and now the effects are felt. This is not exclusive to GM.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: J._McD on April 04, 2006, 01:52:59 pm: GM is the largest Auto manufacturer and it was 10.6 billion. If you buy foriegn, then they profit and their billions in profits exit the country and benefit their county of origin, so buy American. I personally drive GM vehicles that are not only out of warranty but both have over 100,000 miles on them are are dependable and reliable. They do occassionally need service for which I pay, including "miscelaneous charges" for "supplies".

All of my business vehicles are Ford, and they did point out the print in the warranty that batteries are not covered, not even at 14,000 miles.

The point here in this thread is about what we ALL expect to be free of charges, while we all pay for and tip for services without being billed but yet expected in many other places. So what is the big deal about supporting the cost of providing a service to YOU. 90% of you all tip people, spend frivously at times, buy things you don't need, etc, and contribute money to good causes.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: drewstar on April 04, 2006, 01:55:21 pm: Quote
GM is the largest Auto manufacturer and it was 10.6 billion. If you buy foriegn, then they profit and their billions in profits exit the country and benefit their county of origin, so buy American.

I don't think that's really the case as it was so in the 70's.

The $ goes to the company, plant, stockholders, vendors, employees, Dealerships, advertisings.... etc. It's not like if you buy a Toyota for $20,000 and $20,000 get transfered to the bank of Japan. We are in a global economy.

I belive my toyota was built in KY.

Oh, your Brand new Cadialic? (that's what the spa dealers are driving this year, right J_McD :) ) That came from Mexico. Who supported American workers more, you or me? My totyota will get Joe sixpack a new dishwaser, your cadialiac just bought Juan a new donkey.

::)
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Bonibelle on April 04, 2006, 02:21:29 pm: I bought my husband a Kia last summer. I took a chance and NEVER do that with big dollar items. In any case, the Kia Sportage provided an economical, safe 4 wheel vehicle with reasonable gas milage and a fantastic warranty. I was thankful, no less, when JD Power agreed with me. In any case, I called my salesman and took it in for warranty work. When I was ready to leave he called me
to the showroom, jumped into the driver's seat and took it over to the pumps and filled my tank with gas. I was impressed and very grateful!
Yesterday, my electrician came back to check his wiring as I had questioned my spa hook up. He drove over 20 miles to get here and we found that nothing he had done was wrong. He didn't want anything for his trouble. I insisted on paying him however, and my husband agreed that it was only fair, since he didn't have to fix anything because of a mistake or oversight. As far as my spa dealership, they told me there would be no milage charge for warranty work. If I called and it was something dumb that I had caused or done, I would again insist on paying for for the call. What's fair is fair :-/
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Wisoki on April 04, 2006, 03:32:16 pm: Regardless, I would never be seen in any vehicle not produced by Chrysler, GM, or Ford. The "Global Economy" is for tree huggers and Wal*Mart, not me!

Quote

The $ goes to the company, plant, stockholders, vendors, employees, Dealerships, advertisings.... etc. It's not like if you buy a Toyota for $20,000 and $20,000 get transfered to the bank of Japan. We are in a global economy.

I belive my toyota was built in KY.
quote]
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: windsurfdog on April 04, 2006, 04:21:55 pm: I hugged a tree hugger on the way to Wal*Mart the other day in my Prius........saluted "Ol' Glory" as I passed by as well....... 8)

Is ^this _a ^great _nation ^or what?
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Chas on April 04, 2006, 04:26:44 pm: Quote
If you buy foriegn, then they profit and their billions in profits exit the country and benefit their county of origin, so buy American.

They may profit, and that profit may leave the country, but the profit is a small percentage of the total money involved in creating a car.

The labor all stays here - most of the best-selling 'foreign' cars are built in the states, and the cost of buying, setting up and electrifying those huge plants also stays here. The cost of steel, electronic parts, paint, tires etc. stays here as well in most cases.

If you were to put Toyota out of business tomorrow, you would throw tens of thousands of americans out of work. And you would shutter a huge chain of suppliers and vendors who provide whatever they don't ship in from Japan. But even what gets shipped passes through our ports and over our highways or rails.

In the free market economy that we enjoy, the best product in any category usually is the best-selling as well. So if the 'big three' would pony up the best product, and especially if they could break the union grip which artificially inflates the prices, I think we'd be seeing a different shake out in the automotive business.

IMO.
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Wisoki on April 04, 2006, 06:13:00 pm: That's one of my favorite expressions, I heard a new one a couple of weeks ago that I adopted as well..."Limosine Liberals" mostly found in Hollywood.

Quote
I hugged a tree hugger on the way to Wal*Mart the other day in my Prius........saluted "Ol' Glory" as I passed by as well....... 8)

Is ^this _a ^great _nation ^or what?
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: hottub.pool_boy on April 04, 2006, 09:24:25 pm: I carted my black lab 50 miles to the animal hospital this morning in my wife's hand-me-down, creme-puff, 2001 jeep cherokee. Ran like a champ. Imagine, she put a whole 43,000 miles on it in 5 years. Dog's o.k., lost his breakfast on the way (a few times). Anybody lookin' for a low mileage cherokee driven lightly by the child rearing love of my life?
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: Snowbird on April 04, 2006, 09:29:22 pm: So... what does all this have to do with hot tub dealers charging customers unfair fees for warranty work?
Title: Re: warranty fee/ travel charge
Post by: hottub.pool_boy on April 04, 2006, 09:39:13 pm: put it away.