Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: anne on March 29, 2006, 11:57:02 pm

Title: cover and cover lifter
Post by: anne on March 29, 2006, 11:57:02 pm: I think I saw a thread with sort of this topic recently, but now I have my tub, and I'm concerned:

I have an Arctic 8' tub, so the cover is pretty heavy. That is fine, and I can manage it, but my dealer provided my a covermate I. At the time I had not clue what lifters were what, and I was not interested in paying more for a hydraulic lift as I figured it was just something that could break, and simple is often better.

Problem: When lifting the whole cover upward, if I hold it on the side where the handle is, the lifter bows, and it REALLY feels like something will break- either the lifter, or the brackets are going to tear off the skirt. I can do it evenly by lifting the first 1/2, then getting in and lifting in from the center, but that is a PAIN.

Im wondering if I should have been suggested a beefier lifter for this type of cover. My dealer said nothing about the different strength of lifters, so maybe it is not a problem, but it seems like it could become one over time. When i wet tested, it had no lifter, so I did not have a chance to see what it was like. If the cedar skirt or the cover gets damaged, I wont be happy.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: Gomboman on March 30, 2006, 01:32:16 am: I hate to say it Anne, but the covermate I is a pretty weak lifter. Use it until it breaks and get a better one next time. :)
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: tony on March 30, 2006, 06:58:45 am: My Covermate I does the same thing(bowing), but it is almost four years old now. It is getting near time to replace it and I will do so with the same one. As weak as it is (and there isn't much to it), I like the simplicity and the ease of use. And its relatively inexpensive to replace. Keep an eye on any moving parts. Nuts, bolts, etc need to be tightened every so often. I lift the cover off from one side and don't have to get in. After I fold the cover over I lift the cover and lifter together rather than just grabbing the lifter.

There are special brackets for use on Sundance Spas that give the lifter good bearing so I never feel there is undue stress on the skirt. I don't know how it attaches to your spa, but the brackets should be screwed into solid framework underneath.

I agree with Gomboman. Use it until it breaks then get something else if you like.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: Snowbird on March 30, 2006, 08:17:51 am: The problem with cover lifters in general is that the weight of the cover is transferred to the center hinge. Typically this is made of the same material as the cover and it is stitched together. After a while the weight of the cover resting on the cross bar of the lifter may cause the hinge to fail.

A Cover Saver is a device that transfers the weight from the hinge to two plastic "T" shaped pieces suspended from the cross bar. The hinge never comes in contact with anything and bears no weight. Instad the weight of the cover is resting on its bottom edge on the plastic pieces.

I have an 8 ft J385 with a Covermate I and a Cover Saver and it works like a charm everytime.

The twisting is natural. If you stand on one end on lift it, the other end will be a little lower until the weight transfers more towards vertical. No big deal.

However, I removed the sides of my tub and installed 2 x 10 cross pieces to the frame behind the area where the lifter is attached. This way the lifter screws and not just into the side pieces but go thru into the 2 x 10. I'm figuring this will save my side pieces, as well as the lifter.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: drewstar on March 30, 2006, 09:02:36 am: Quote
The problem with cover lifters in general is that the weight of the cover is transferred to the center hinge. Typically this is made of the same material as the cover and it is stitched together. After a while the weight of the cover resting on the cross bar of the lifter may cause the hinge to fail.

A Cover Saver is a device that transfers the weight from the hinge to two plastic "T" shaped pieces suspended from the cross bar. The hinge never comes in contact with anything and bears no weight. Instad the weight of the cover is resting on its bottom edge on the plastic pieces.

I have an 8 ft J385 with a Covermate I and a Cover Saver and it works like a charm everytime.

The twisting is natural. If you stand on one end on lift it, the other end will be a little lower until the weight transfers more towards vertical. No big deal.

However, I removed the sides of my tub and installed 2 x 10 cross pieces to the frame behind the area where the lifter is attached. This way the lifter screws and not just into the side pieces but go thru into the 2 x 10. I'm figuring this will save my side pieces, as well as the lifter.

Doc has the cover saver, and some pics that show what Snowbird is talking about,

for you clicking pleasure: http://www.rhtubs.com/store/cover-saver.htm
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: anne on March 30, 2006, 10:05:38 am: I have seen the cover saver, and I understand how it takes stress off of the seam of the cover, but I dont see how that reduces the bowing issue or the stress on the skirt of the tub. My lifter came with special brackets for Arctic, but it still seems questionable. I ASSUME there is solid frame in there the screws are hitting, but the screws arent that long.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: galen on March 30, 2006, 10:49:31 am: Anne, while looking for tubs I saw what you have described. When I bought my tub, I ask very pointed questions about this subject. The dealer said "we supply this lift but you can get an upgraded one but it will cost more". A lot of tubs are sold Anne with entry level accessories. This is done to keep the cost down, for fear of losing a sale. My wife has a weak back and cannot lift a lot. I ask for a lifter that takes all the pressure off lifting. And I pointed out that mounts to the frame and NOT the siding like so many do. I have a covermate III. And is made for my make of tub.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on March 30, 2006, 01:28:46 pm: anne, if you haven't had it long, call your dealer, ask if you can get one that's a more comfortable fit for you and your tub...maybe you can exchange and pay a little extra for an upgrade.....let the dealer know WHY you're concerned, and go from there......
you don't ask, they won't offer....
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: bosco0633 on March 30, 2006, 01:58:14 pm: anne, i have the same as you right now. I am coming up to a year. I think you have new buyers fear. When the tub was brand new, I was so careful with everything and always worried that something would break. The bottom line, is that it is not the best one but it is still pretty good. Yeah you get some bowing, but just think, when you spend 10k on a tub, you get a pretty nice warranty with it as well. If something happens with the tub due to stuff that they gave you, your covered. Once you start changing things around you may have a harder time down the road.

It was free, and like someone else said, use it until it breaks. Why spend money that you dont really need to right now. stock up on some chemicals instead.

I remember last year when I first took delivery, I ordered every chemical, every aroma therapy, floating checker board, pillows, waterproof cards etc etc etc. Oh yeah, and I fell victim to the rubber duckies why why why.

Now I dont use any of it. want some free stuff?????
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: Spatech_tuo on March 30, 2006, 01:59:28 pm: Quote

Problem: When lifting the whole cover upward, if I hold it on the side where the handle is, the lifter bows, and it REALLY feels like something will break- either the lifter, or the brackets are going to tear off the skirt. I can do it evenly by lifting the first 1/2, then getting in and lifting in from the center, but that is a PAIN.

I don't like the CV-I for spas that are more than mid-sized for the very reasons you stated. I very much like the CM-III in such a case as it is much sturdier and has the shocks you speak of but the only thing with that one is the cover sits very high which people very much like or very much dislike depending on the situation. If you like it, maybe your dealer would switch it out for the cost difference since you've been such a good customer. ;D
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: Mendocino101 on March 30, 2006, 02:25:03 pm: A simple way to take some stress off and actually make it easier to lift is if you enter your spa from the front and middle as most do......than just fold back the cover and than finish the lift when your in the spa again from the middle less stress on the cover, the lift and yourself..... :D
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: drewstar on March 30, 2006, 02:29:44 pm: Quote
A simple way to take some stress off and actually make it easier to lift is if you enter your spa from the front and middle as most do......than just fold back the cover and than finish the lift when your in the spa again from the middle less stress on the cover, the lift and yourself..... :D

That's what I do with my CM1 flip half the cover up, then once in the tub lift it up from the middle. OTherwise, the CM1 will twist out.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: Spatech_tuo on March 30, 2006, 02:40:38 pm: Quote

That's what I do with my CM1 flip half the cover up, then once in the tub lift it up from the middle. OTherwise, the CM1 will twist out.

and that's what I tell people as well but I personally prefer the type where I can open it from outside the tub. I think it's imprtant for customers to see their different lifter options in the showroom so they can decide for themselves. I've seen many people demo the lifters and you can see the look in their eyes when they try the CM-I on a large spa as they often quickly go for the sturdier model even though it costs more. It's less of an issue for someone with a good seize reach but with a less-than-tall wife who doesn't exactly pack on the pounds and 3 kids, I know they'd have trouble dealing with the CM-I on a large spa.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: windsurfdog on March 30, 2006, 02:50:59 pm: Quote

Doc has the cover saver, and some pics that show what Snowbird is talking about,

for you clicking pleasure: http://www.rhtubs.com/store/cover-saver.htm

One caution about the CoverSaver.......My spa is in full sun during the day, all day. The CoverSaver webbing does not hold up under full sun. After the first failed in about a year, I received a second, made sure to treat it with 303 but it also failed....in about 8 months. If your spa does not experience this much sun, I believe it does serve well and is a good idea.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: galen on March 30, 2006, 02:55:48 pm: Anne, when it gets time to order a new cover, you may want to look at the three sectioned cover. It is easier to handle and when adding chemicals you only need to open the little section instead of flipping over half the cover. I posted pictures of this somewhere on this forum back a couple of weeks ago. With the covermate III. It also folds flat against the tub if you mow close to the tub which I do. I don't know how to place a link in a post but it had something to do with my install of the tub.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: Snowbird on March 30, 2006, 06:29:53 pm: Quote
I remember last year when I first took delivery, I ordered every chemical, every aroma therapy, floating checker board, pillows, waterproof cards etc etc etc. Oh yeah, and I fell victim to the rubber duckies why why why.

I'm glad to know that I am not the only one to suffer from "New Tub-itis".

[size=10][glb]K. I. S. S.[/glb][/size]
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: jnsjr58 on April 01, 2006, 08:07:38 am: Anne,
For what it's worth, I got a real good deal on my Arctic, as a matter of fact it was so good there were no freebies thrown in ( God knows I tried). When choosing my lifter, the dealer ( knowing I was going to pay full retail ) told me I didn't need to buy the upgraded lifter ( I would have bought whatever she recomended at that point) . I have the same lifter as you and have the same milisecond of bowing. The sides of our tubs, being real wood and not plastic, are so well made I dont see the hardware coming off or loose as being a problem

I am more concerned with the entire weight of that Heavy Arctic cover sitting on the cross bar while open. That side of my tub cannot be seen so I plan on rigging a platform up to resolve that problem.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: tony on April 01, 2006, 11:58:44 am: Quote
The sides of our tubs, being real wood and not plastic, are so well made I dont see the hardware coming off or loose as being a problem

The sides of my spa are real wood and not plastic, but I would not trust the skirt of any spa to support the weight and twisting action of any cover lifter. It is not the hardware coming off or loose, it would be the damage done to the siding. I am sure the brackets are attached to a part of the skirt with framing beneath on Arctic spas.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: anne on April 01, 2006, 10:35:28 pm: thanks, all for your replies. My dealer is going to be out here tomorrow to install the ozone, and I may ask about upgrading, but I'd be hesitant to do so at this point if different brackets are needed. I'll make sure he is "ok" with the degree of bowing that my lifter creates, too. If I can upgrade without taking hardware off my tub, great. If not, I'll deal with it for now. :)

Hard to care too much about anything right now- just had a soak and a beer........ ;D
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on April 02, 2006, 08:35:24 am: anne, the one thing I'd consider is that the cover will get heavier over time...if you're concerned NOW, what about in a year or two, when the cover's a bit more saturated? Not saying the lifter isn't good enough....just reminding you that this is as good as it's gonna get! *lol*
Mine 'flexes' too.....got the Glide Rite lift, however, it's bolted to the side of the frame under the skirting....I really don't think it'll go anywhere, I'm just trying to be careful when I open/close the cover, and make sure everyone else is, too.
Good luck!
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: J._McD on April 02, 2006, 05:23:52 pm: Quote
..............The bottom line is...............when you spend 10k on a tub, you get a pretty nice warranty with it as well. If something happens with the tub due to stuff that they gave you, your covered...........it was free, and like someone else said, use it until it breaks. Why spend money that you dont really need to right now. stock up on some chemicals instead.

I hate to break this to you, BUT, NO YOU'RE NOT "COVERED". The warranty you got with your 10K Hot Tub is from the manufacturer of the Hot Tub for "manufacturer defects or deficiencies in material or workmanship. IF the dealer provides you with an accessory that fails, it is not the "Hot Tub manufacturer's fault and it is NOT COVERED. The dealer does not issue, provide or claim to "warranty" what could be considered neglect, misuse or the failure of an accessory item that may lead to subsequent damage to the Hot Tub or the Cover, which IF anything are all covered by seperate manufacturer warranty provisions that do not relate to each others products, nor are they necessarily covered with any labor provisions and may be a carry in item. :o >:(:(
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: anne on April 02, 2006, 08:50:18 pm: Yeah, I kinda figured that if I was inappropriately using a lifter and it damaged the spa that I'd be SOL; that is why I was worried. The Tahoe dealer came out today to install my ozone, and i asked him about that and a million other things. The brackets are attached to the frame, and he said the only time he has seen the brackets pull/tear from the spa, or seen the sidebar of the lifter bend, is when people are throwing the cover back without stopping it, which I never do. The bowing did not bother him at all, but he did encourage me to finish lifting the cover from inside the spa as I have started to do. I'll continue to do what I'm doing for now, and watch for any problems.
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: jsimo7 on April 02, 2006, 09:13:52 pm: Quote from: J._McD [quote
The dealer does not issue, provide or claim to "warranty" what could be considered neglect, misuse or the failure of an accessory item that may lead to subsequent damage to the Hot Tub or the Cover, which IF anything are all covered by seperate manufacturer warranty provisions that do not relate to each others products, nor are they necessarily covered with any labor provisions and may be a carry in item. :o >:(:(

If the accessory is purchased from the dealer in a package with the tub and it is a inferior product and causes a covered part failure it is shame on the dealer. If the customer purchases from another source and it is a inferior product and causes a problem shame on the customer. The dealer owes it to the customer and his own intergrity to match products that work properly together when they offer a package deal. IMHO :)
Title: Re: cover and cover lifter
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on April 03, 2006, 09:29:34 am: great idea, anne.....preventive maintenance!

jsimo7, I agree......if a dealer is going to suggest products to you, s/he SHOULD be competent enough to know if they actually work together! That's why I'm a goober that's asking questions, and not being paid to sell the stuff.

When I found I had my choice of cover lifts, I decided to get the one made for HS tubs....I liked a couple of the others, but it made more sense to me to buy something that's MEANT to fit my application....