Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Tatooed_Lady on March 20, 2006, 06:04:29 pm
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We used PT lumber to make the tub deck, and I'd like to seal it before the tub comes (HOPEFULLY in 2-3 weeks). Does this type of wood have to "age" before being sealed? Some of it's pretty wet..from being frozen and thawed or treated, not sure which...I suppose I'll have to skip that step...?
(this is the babbling my husband is slowly going nuts from, FYI.)
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I think it does need to dry. Also, the wood needs to age. Any idea how long ago they pressure treated the wood.
Thompson's website:
http://www.thompsonswaterseal.com/products/list.asp?show=home.products.wtrPrf.total
Allow 30 days before applying on new pressure treated lumber.
If surface is damp or wet from cleaning or weather, allow the surface to dry thoroughly (a minimum of 48 hours) before application.
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thompsons is by no means the best. it is the most reconized name in there industry. you want to use penofin. it is much better product. if you planed on treating the wood you should have treated all the side of the decking before you built the deck. that way every side of the wood is protected.
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I let the wood age for a year. I agree Thompson's is probably the number one seller but as we all know that doesn't make it the best....
If you know who did the treatment you could see if they make a sealer. For example, the pressure treated wood I've used was treated by Wolman up near Bancroft. They sell a tretament as well as an end cut preservative. Make sure you use the end cut preservative for the ends. I also mix some of the end cut (very green and slightly heavier) with the standard preservative to give it a little more colour.
I've cleaned and reapplied preservative ever since I built my roofed in deck 14 years ago (after waiting the first year) and it looks as good as new, although just slightly darker than originally. Fences get a quick coat every year as well but you might want to do that with your neighbour as some will inevitably go over to other side. A good substitute preservative up here is Cetol. paul
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I know Thompson's is the best known around these parts, and I HAVE heard that there are better, lesser known products out there....is there something I can put on the deck that's quick to dry and not going to hurt my dogs? If I can ONLY treat the tub deck, that's fine....but they've got pretty free access to the back yard, and currently there's no fencing on 3 sides (yes, there COULD be, in a pinch)....is there something that's less toxic than Thompson's, maybe?
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None of these products are going to be appropriate for doggie consumption or eager sniffing, but I would think that all of them would be ok once dried/cured, as long as you dont have a dog chewing on your deck. ::) I have never seen or heard of any dogs having toxicity issues with stuff like this, but I guess you could be the first! (I'm a veterinarian) Some dogs do eat the darndest things. If anyone tells you that something they are selling is going to protect your wood, but is non toxic, frankly, I would not believe them.
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The longer you let it age the better it will take stain and look in the end. Besides who likes the look of green treated wood. When it turns gray then treat it. It will take more stain (maybe 2 coats) but once it is done it will last longer and look better. One or Two years. Then just use colored stain. There are many good brands out there that color and protect.
This is how I take care of my decks...and you all know I have alot of them. 1800 SF house 2000 SF decking...LOL
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The longer you let it age the better it will take stain and look in the end. Besides who likes the look of green treated wood. When it turns gray then treat it. It will take more stain (maybe 2 coats) but once it is done it will last longer and look better. One or Two years. Then just use colored stain. There are many good brands out there that color and protect.
This is how I take care of my decks...and you all know I have alot of them. 1800 SF house 2000 SF decking...LOL
Holy sheepdip, Tman! twice the house as us and 4 times the deck! I agree though...I'd rather NOT have green decking for the duration.....it's annoying enough to have green EVERYTHING on my birthday....Thanks for the knowledge, though....I thought I'd have to wait, even though I'd HOPED to be able to sneak in and do this before the tub gets here.
Thank you anne, Paul, bwb, TN.....guess I'll just do what I figured I'd have to do in the first place.....wash the main deck, then hold out for a couple years and stain/protect both at the same time.
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This was just discussed in my Handyman club magazine.
Waiting a long time for PT lumber to dry is a myth. Here's what they had to say:
Myth: Pressure-treated deck lumber needs to dry for two to three years before it can be stained; applying stain sooner will prevent the wood from weathering properly.
Fact: Pressure-treated lumber is often slightly damp when it arrives from the lumberyard, but if you wait a year before staining, the wood will suffer damage from the elements. Richard Kleiner from SFPA recommends a four- to eight-week drying time. "What you're after is a surface-moisture content that's less than 20 percent," he says. "Twelve percent is ideal, but anything less than 20 is acceptable."
Two exceptions to this rule of thumb exist. First, lumber that is kiln-dried after treatment (KDAT) can be stained immediately. Second, any lumber that comes treated with water repellent from the manufacturer should be left unfinished for two to three months before you apply stain.
Good Luck :)
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For pt lumber, I'd wait at least a year before doing anything. Most of that stuff comes out of the lumber yard pretty wet, and you'd just be wasting money if you did it too soon.
Thompson's water seal products are probably the last thing I'd use. Ask a real paint store for recommendations. It won't cost all that much more money, and you'll get a better result.
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ok, looks pretty obvious that the tub'll be in place prior to stain/protect.....should we even BOTHER to do the tub deck? There should only be a few inches around the base in any direction exposed (7'7" x 8'4" tub, 8' x 9' deck)......
Otherwise, it sounds like when weather permits, we can wash and stain the main deck...I'm good with that.
Thanks for even MORE info!
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ok, looks pretty obvious that the tub'll be in place prior to stain/protect.....should we even BOTHER to do the tub deck? There should only be a few inches around the base in any direction exposed (7'7" x 8'4" tub, 8' x 9' deck)......
Otherwise, it sounds like when weather permits, we can wash and stain the main deck...I'm good with that.
Thanks for even MORE info!
Tattoo, did you check if the wood is KDAT? If so, stain it now! :)
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KDAT? Killer Dinghy Attack Tub? Wassat? ???
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KDAT? Killer Dinghy Attack Tub? Wassat? ???
argh. Please read my orignal post. ::)
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*LMFAO* sorry......I READ the post, honest...just didn't register the abbreviation......somehow, I doubt that Menard's stuff is kiln dried after treatment......I'm thinking it's just treated and POOF.......laid out to soak up the water, freeze, thaw, etc.....the stuff IS pretty heavy and wet.
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along this same line, has anyone used any of the synthetic decking products out there for their tubs? I understand it's about 2x the $$$ but no treating necessary and it's stainable immediately. The quality has increased over the last few years as well.
Just curious!
TTL...I'm in the same boat as you...decking has not been installed yet and tub should be here in about 3 weeks so may look into the composite stuff or the kiln dried stuff drewstar mentioned.
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The white tag stapled to the ends of the boards might tell you if it's KDAT.
My PT deck was already there when I bought the house, and was left unstained for several years. It was bleached out and there was severe checking, cracking, warping and slivers in some areas. I spent 3 days using a very powerful pressure washer to clean the deck and then put 3 coats of stain on it. It took me and my wife 3 full days to stain it. (The toughest part is the railing balasters. I'm going to have to put another coat on it this year. :P
Luvin. tubin: I'd love to hear about the composites as well. When (more like "if") I do my decks this would be what I'd want. I have a few freinds who have used it with excellent results. There are different grades of it, and not all composites are made the same.
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I'd seriously considered the synthetic stuff.....SOME of it (not all) is a solid deck board, SOME, however, is "reversible" and has hollow cores, from what it looked like at the store....The price, however, was the deciding factor..... approximately $5 per deck board that we've got, or I THINK it was about $2 per linear foot for the synthetic.......Our tub deck cost around $300 in materials, plus we bought a couple extra 2x6x8s for building the step....all said and done around a $350 project that took the better part of 4 days.....
day 1 - dig out sod, try to level as much as possible, lay weed barrier and throw gravel over to hold barrier down, watch husband drink beer.
day 2 - add 1100 pounds of gravel to area to level grade better.....build deck frame, watch husband drink beer.
day 3 - add braces between joists, attach deck boards, watch husband drink beer.
day 4 - build the ($#(%&!$$ step, learn new words when hubby gets all finger tips crunched...watch husband drink much beer. Argue with husband that though the tub deck is level, step isn't....decide argument is non-productive, plan to fix problem while hubby at work in following days....
Basically, it went really well. ;D
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;D Very nice!!!
wondering tho ttl, being that this is a hot tub forum and all, couldn't it be that you are "participating in the WETNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM"?
LOL!!!
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"participating in the WETNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM"?
LOL!!!
if I wore a shirt that said that.......talk about not being able to go out in public!
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along this same line, has anyone used any of the synthetic decking products out there for their tubs? I understand it's about 2x the $$$ but no treating necessary and it's stainable immediately. The quality has increased over the last few years as well.
Why in the world would you want to stain a synthetic product? IMHO, lack of maintenance is one of the pluses of synthetic decking. Staining would just start a maintenance cycle. Just wondering.
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Hi 'Lady:
I've built decks out of pressure treated and synthetic stuff, as well as using a variety of treatments. Here's what I've learned:
PT wood is the cheapest and easiest stuff for most DIYers to use. Mistakes are NOT expensive and it's generally "forgiving." I'd recommend finding a SUPPLIER (sawmill or yard that MAKES PT lumber) to buy from, NOT a home center. Most home centers offer only Grade 2 5/4 board for decking, while the supplier offers Grade 1 for a little more. Grade 1 PT 5/4 board has much better surface qualities than Grade 2.
Synthetic stuff is great to use and lasts a LONG time, but a few things. Because synthetic board is primarily plastic, direct sun exposure causes the product to get HOT. This is a consideration if you have high sun exposure on your deck and you want to use it during the day. Also, because plastic expands more than wood, you need to "gap" the boards approximately 1/4," making them not look as "tight" as a wood deck. Remember also that support lumber and timbers are not made from synthetic material, meaning only the top stuff will be synthetic.
To finish PT wood, I'd recommend Flood (http://www.flood.com/flood/) products available at Lowes and Home Depot. Better quality Flood products can be found at paint stores. I'd also recommend waiting 1 year for the wood to "dry" before finishing, but I'd coat it with a UV protector a few weeks after putting it down to prevent UV damage during the first year. UV protectors still allow the moisture to come out of the wood, but protect the surface from damage. You can view Flood's opinion about new wood finishing by clicking here (http://www.flood.com/Flood/TipsandTools/FactsandTips/New+Wood+Tip.htm). Flood's wood finishing products are explained here (http://www.flood.com/Flood/Products/Exterior/FinishersForExteriorWood/).
A last suggestion about wood vs. synthetic. You can plank a deck in Cedar 5/4 Grade 1 finishing board for about the same cost as synthetic. I'd suggest looking at it instead of synthetic or PT if cost is not an issue.
Here's a picture of the deck system I built on my last house:
(http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/592/i4uhouse2147.th.jpg) (http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=i4uhouse2147.jpg)
Note the area where the hot tub was to the left. This deck was treated 2 times over 4 years with Flood products. It's constructed of PT pine with 5/4 board decking. The step timbers were NOT treated, note the difference in appearance. I've been VERY satisfied with Flood products and highly recommend them. Others may have a different opinion which, of course, I respect...
Good luck!
Drewski
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Why in the world would you want to stain a synthetic product? IMHO, lack of maintenance is one of the pluses of synthetic decking. Staining would just start a maintenance cycle. Just wondering.
I'm under the assumption, maybe wrongly so, that the composite stuff could be stained and forgotten. My deck is 3 levels and the tub is going on the lowest, smallest part. I figured after I reinforce it, I could use the composite stuff on top, stain it to match the existing decking, and be done with it!!!! (man, I like the sound of that!)
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Good advice and wood vs. composite comparison from Drewski .. if you apply sealant/stain to wood product .. don't go for the bargain product .. the few extra $$ per gallon is well worth the better appearance, protection and longevity.
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I'm under the assumption, maybe wrongly so, that the composite stuff could be stained and forgotten. My deck is 3 levels and the tub is going on the lowest, smallest part. I figured after I reinforce it, I could use the composite stuff on top, stain it to match the existing decking, and be done with it!!!! (man, I like the sound of that!)
I'd suggest looking at the product documentation for BOTH the synthetic product and finishing stain to see if it would work and IF they are compatible. Otherwise, it may end up looking like you painted the deck and in less than a month it begins to flake off. Consider contrasting colors for the synthetic stuff. Check "special order" colors at the home center...
Drewski
8)
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;DGreat lookin' deck by the way Drewski!
Thanks for the good advice.
Dave (soon to be tubbin') in Metro Cleveland.
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;DGreat lookin' deck by the way Drewski!
Thanks for the good advice.
Dave (soon to be tubbin') in Metro Cleveland.
A fellow BROTHER from the rock-and-roll capital of the world??!!! Grew up in Parma... Valley Forge HS, '81....
Drewski
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All my decks are brown pressure treated under structure and cedar decking and railing. I have better luck with cedar over pressure treated, don't seem to warp or crack as much and it's so easy to work with and the scraps make great kindling for the camp fire. As far as synthetic. Check out the fade warranty before you purchase. You may end up staining just as much as wood in a few years. I have seen some pretty raunchy synthetic decks, but I hear improvments have been made in the products.
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I guess I'm lucky....most of our yard is covered by trees and is in shade 80% of the day...so I guess UV isn't as important to protect against as water, for us.
I'll have to consider options carefully....the only time I have to do all the "home improvements" (yes, visions of Tim Taylor danced in my head as I typed that) is while I'm laid off over winter....and some holiday weekends, which get hectic.