Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: dsommerl on February 24, 2006, 05:33:30 pm
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I'm changing over to Eco One. Am in the tub cleaning phase.
Once I get up and going. The directions say to use a sanitizer---I'm planning to use dichlor. However, I can't find instructions on how much etc to use. Am told that using Eco One greatly reduces the need for the sanitizer but some is still needed.
I'm also confused as the need for shocking. I want to use a chlorine based shock--vs non chlorine. How much and how often should I shock and with what?
Have a J cuzzi 375 model---480 gallons
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Go to their site and e-mail them.
When I was interested in Eco one, they answered my questions.
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Would have done that--except their website offers no contact info nor email for product info (or anything else I can see).
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at the bottom of this page is a contact phone number, if the info you're looking for isn't on the page......
http://www.ecoonespa.com/html/instructions.html
best of luck!
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Their page has changed drastically since I went to it. There used to be a "contact us" or a FAQ area.
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I sure couldn't find it either. I just called their 877 number--but I guess it's Saturday---office closed.
Anyway---I'm confused. Assume I want to use dichlor as my additional sanitizer (did I refer to that correctly?). How much and how often should dichlor be added to the spa ?
My understanding of the Eco One system is that the monthly bottle/treatment---needs additional sanitizer----it can't stand alone--as the one and only spa additive. I can't find what a typical dosage should be.
I don't want to use non chlorine "shock" such as Leisure Time Renew----as it contains MSP (?)---which some people have had allergic reactions to.
I have very sensitive skin---have broken out in various rashes since I bought my spa last July. This Eco One system is my last try for success----if I fail this time---my spa will likely then go on the market---I will give up.
I need a basic education on this Eco One system--the local dealer where I bought it doesn't seem to know anymore than to read the instructions as I have done.
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I did find some help on one of the EcoOne dealer websites.
AFter the cleansing---and drain and re fill--they prescribe
1)n install a nature2 cartridge in the filter compartment
2)Add 1 oz of dichlor per 250 gallons
3)balance ph to between 7 and 8
4) heat to desired temp
5)Add the Econ One monthly treatment bottle
6)Add 2 caps of the ecoone filter boost in filter compartment
THEN
After each use---add 1 TBL spoon of Rnew non chlorine shock
My question now is what else can I use instead of the Leisure Time Renew product?---to shock the spa?---household bleach?----more dichlor/ (how much to shock?)
THEN---on a weekly basis----they say to add one teaspoon of chlorine (dichlor)---per 250 gallons
Again---I want to get away from Renew which contains MPS----are there any other "non" chlorine based shocks that do not have MPS? I know I"m not allergic to chlorine---for sure----it's all the other stuff in the Lieusre Time system I'm trying to avoid---especially the Renew stuff which I've read has caused users alot of problems--people with sensitive skin--like me.
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The "problem" with chlorine and enzymes is that chlorine thinks that the enzymes need to be neutralized so ... if you use chlorine as shock then the enzymes will be oxidized out.
Why don't you try using 1/2 teaspoon per person when you get out of the tub or the next morning and see how the tub goes. If you get any cloudiness then add more or if you go say 3 days and it gets cloudy then go 2 days and add some chlorine. As far as shocking - you need about 10x the combined chlorine level and I believe with enzymes you get less combined chlorine so you need less chlorine.
There's a person on Doc's board that uses a teaspoon a week of chlorine but uses a different system.
Every so often I read about someone who can't use a tub due to sensitive skin. I looked into Eco One because my youngest son had/has sensitive skin but luckily he's OK with my Chlorine routine.
Good Luck!
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I did find some help on one of the EcoOne dealer websites.
AFter the cleansing---and drain and re fill--they prescribe
1)n install a nature2 cartridge in the filter compartment
2)Add 1 oz of dichlor per 250 gallons
3)balance ph to between 7 and 8
4) heat to desired temp
5)Add the Econ One monthly treatment bottle
6)Add 2 caps of the ecoone filter boost in filter compartment
THEN
After each use---add 1 TBL spoon of Rnew non chlorine shock
My question now is what else can I use instead of the Leisure Time Renew product?---to shock the spa?---household bleach?----more dichlor/ (how much to shock?)
THEN---on a weekly basis----they say to add one teaspoon of chlorine (dichlor)---per 250 gallons
Again---I want to get away from Renew which contains MPS----are there any other "non" chlorine based shocks that do not have MPS? I know I"m not allergic to chlorine---for sure----it's all the other stuff in the Lieusre Time system I'm trying to avoid---especially the Renew stuff which I've read has caused users alot of problems--people with sensitive skin--like me.
I would skip the MPS each use and substitute a small amount of dichlor (1 tsp max). If you do this, I don't think you'll have to shock at all unless you register any combined chlorine. I don't think you will. If your combined chlorine (total chlorine - free chlorine) does reache .2ppm, then shock with either chlorine or MPS.
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I'm not a first time spa user. For over 10 years I had a Jacuzzi Quantum and in those days (5 plus years ago)---the only sanitizing choices were Bromine and Chlorine. I tried Bromine and has a a bad skin reaction. Then switched to chlorine---dichlor I guess---and was fine. In those days all I ever did was add dichlor----and shock weekly with household bleach---along with maintaining proper PH levels along the way--regularily.
Once I got on this simple routine--I never had any skin irritation problems.
THEN---I bought a new spa last July and began the Leisure time "system"---ever since then it's been terrible.
I believe the tub was infected with the dreaded follicle bacteria bug---as my skin rash matched those symptoms---but my dermatologist also said to carefully check ALL the chemical additives I was using.
Not knowing which was my REAL problem--I am going the Eco One route----for another and perhaps last try.
This past week---I super chlorinated the existing water---over 100ppm dichlor---AND---used Swirl Away---at twice the dosage and twice the time prescribed. I drained all yesterday---continued to flush it with clean water--and refilled.
This morning I started the Eco One routine---starting with the "Spa cleanser" step---which is where I am now.---I plan to leave that in for the next week or so----and then drain it all out---flush some more. Refill and go to the Eco One monthly bottle next step---with some chlorine additiive in minimal dosage.
That is my full story. And again----am trying to avoid the MPS "Renew" product--as have read this has caused some people skin irriitation problem/s. Thus my Q on WHAT shocking procedure to use.
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to continue----
Of course---maybe I should just go back to square one---where I was successful a long time ago---just chlorine--dichlor and bleach for shocking. It worked for me a few years ago----maybe that's my real answer (vs all these "exotic" new chemicals)
A concern is potential damage to the equipment. BUT---the ole Quantum held up for 15 years just fine on the chlorine/bleach program
Maybe I'm cyncial---(I know I am)---but---is the "hype" about scale---etc etc potential damage to internal components the "real deal"? (for instance on the Leisure time program--it's Metal Gon upon fill---Defender--every week---this then and that whenever etc)----is it all over kill?
Some more of my rambling thouhts
How about just going chlorine---PH balancing--and bleach for shock?----Is this all anyone REALLY needs--afterall?
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The nice part of enzyme systems is you only need to maintain a minimal chlorine level to have a safe spa. I don't beleive you will ever have to shock your spa in the traditional sense with enzymes. You may have to add a little more dichlor to help it along if it clouds up, but that is it.
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to continue----
Of course---maybe I should just go back to square one---where I was successful a long time ago---just chlorine--dichlor and bleach for shocking. It worked for me a few years ago----maybe that's my real answer (vs all these "exotic" new chemicals)
A concern is potential damage to the equipment. BUT---the ole Quantum held up for 15 years just fine on the chlorine/bleach program
Maybe I'm cyncial---(I know I am)---but---is the "hype" about scale---etc etc potential damage to internal components the "real deal"? (for instance on the Leisure time program--it's Metal Gon upon fill---Defender--every week---this then and that whenever etc)----is it all over kill?
Some more of my rambling thouhts
How about just going chlorine---PH balancing--and bleach for shock?----Is this all anyone REALLY needs--afterall?
I have used bleach to shock. Works really well as long as you keep the water balanced and don't spill any. I use liquid chlorine in my small pool when my CYA levels get marginal. I have never had to shock that pool. I now shock my spa with MPS because I don't like to be without use of the spa from a shock dose of chlorine and I think it does a better job. I use liquid chlorine in the spa if the pH needs to be increased. Once a week I like to get my free chlorine levels to above 3 ppm because I use Nature2 and a minimal dosage of dichlor after use. I only shock when I can measure a combined chlorine level. As a general rule, this is about every other week.
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To add...if I was going to shock with chlorine, I would use bleach and use dichlor just after use. You use a whole lot less product, you don't contribute to CYA or TDS.
The downside to this is most manufacturers prohibit the use of liquid chlorine in a spa.
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Tony--thanks alot for bearing with me on this project.
Okay----Here's what I"m going to do-----AFTER I go thru the Eco One cleansing process and drain and refill the spa--I am going to
1) add 2 ozs of dichlor (1oz per 250 gals X 2 as I have 480 gallons)
2) check PH and adjust to between 7 and 9
3) Heat spa
4)Add Eco One monthly bottle
5)Add the Eco One filter boost to filter compartment--2 caps as directed
THEN
Weekly---add 2 teaspoons of dichlor (1 tsp per 250 gallons X 2)--and regularily check PH as always.
Otherwise---I will only add additional dichlor--IF the spa turns cloudy----(not regularily "shock" the spa)
Does this routine sound like a good one (at least to start)?
Thanks again for "staying with me" on this
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To add...if I was going to shock with chlorine, I would use bleach and use dichlor just after use. You use a whole lot less product, you don't contribute to CYA or TDS.
The downside to this is most manufacturers prohibit the use of liquid chlorine in a spa.
Okay---First--what is "CYA" and "TDS" mean?
Second----how much house bleach should I use to shock (IF I think I need to shock) ?
Again--a 480 gallon spa. AND---IF I shock then how much dichlor should I put in after? (2 teaspoons--per my above "weekly" routine?)
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First, I want to say that I am for the most part on a chlorine - dichlor - only regiment. The only other chemicals I add are baking soda for alk and PH up, ozone, Sea Klear clarifier once a week, I'm trying Leisure Time weekly enzyme and occasionally MPS but that's so I don't have to shock with over 6 PPM chlorine. And I do go into the tub with whatever the chlorine reading is.
I believe in the K.I.S.S. method in everything I do. I agree with you with "systems" and if you don't need something - why add it. The enzyme product for me is probably not going to be used in the future but I will continue the clarifier to keep my water clear. I do experiment with "better" things but usually stick with the simpler as "better" doesn't seem to work better.
If something worked for you in the past, why change?
As for CYA - that's stabilizer and TDS - Total Desolved Solids which is how much "stuff" your water is holding. Every time you go in or add something the TDS goes up.
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Okay, Vinny
I am going to try this Eco One program.
If I don't see the benefit---am going back to a dichlor only program---as I had been successful with in the ole Quantum.
AND if that doesn't work for me--GOOD BYE hot tub.
Like alot of folks--once I sunk $7500 into this thing---I bit on the Leisure Time program---"only the best for me"--thinking--and "gotta protect the investment"---pour in the Metal Gon--Defender---you name it--can't have these mystery elements attacking MY Jacuzzi--you know.
Great forum here----thanks for all the input and support---continue to reply--I'll be checking frequently.
THANKS !!!!
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just a thought here....if you spent over $7k at a local (??) dealer on the tub.....is there any way you can call them to let them know you're having MAJOR water issues, and need someone to come out to hold your hand through chemical balance just after a fresh fill? Maybe you've got a local friend or neighbor that's got a successful tub going that would be willing to come over for a cookout and teaching session?
That's an awful lot of money to feel that you've "thrown away" after the whole PITA that it is to find a tub you like enough to go broke over.....
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just a thought here....if you spent over $7k at a local (??) dealer on the tub.....is there any way you can call them to let them know you're having MAJOR water issues, and need someone to come out to hold your hand through chemical balance just after a fresh fill? Maybe you've got a local friend or neighbor that's got a successful tub going that would be willing to come over for a cookout and teaching session?
That's an awful lot of money to feel that you've "thrown away" after the whole PITA that it is to find a tub you like enough to go broke over.....
ABSOLUTELY. Part of the package buying from a good dealer is the ability to get help with all tub issues, including water issues.
They should also do a home orientation at your first fill to get you started on the right foot.
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Tony--thanks alot for bearing with me on this project.
Okay----Here's what I"m going to do-----AFTER I go thru the Eco One cleansing process and drain and refill the spa--I am going to
1) add 2 ozs of dichlor (1oz per 250 gals X 2 as I have 480 gallons)
2) check PH and adjust to between 7 and 9
3) Heat spa
4)Add Eco One monthly bottle
5)Add the Eco One filter boost to filter compartment--2 caps as directed
THEN
Weekly---add 2 teaspoons of dichlor (1 tsp per 250 gallons X 2)--and regularily check PH as always.
Otherwise---I will only add additional dichlor--IF the spa turns cloudy----(not regularily "shock" the spa)
Does this routine sound like a good one (at least to start)?
Thanks again for "staying with me" on this
Sounds like a plan. You can "tweak it" along the way.
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something else I've heard.....put a little time in between chemical additions.....somone here with experience can tell you what minimum should be, just to be on the safe side, and if you need to leave your cover open for any time after adding, or if you can close it immediately afterwards.....there's so much to learn that a lot of the "oldtimers" have managed to do by sight, feel, smell, almost instinct....but until then, ask questions!
If you're not satisfied with the very superficial answers and would like to know WHY the time between chemicals, how things work, etc.....ask away, there are a surprising number of people on this site that know!
Best of luck!!
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Like everything else in life some people love it and some don't. From what I've read, enzymes keep the tub clean from all the organics that are introduced and continue to break them down until they become simple elements.
I use weekly enzymes and find they work on body oils and such but don't do anything too much on detergents. I originally started using enzymes to try to break up the detergents that are introduced from suits.
I've tried different things with my tub - N2, enzymes, clarifiers, MPS, enhanced shock, different ozone times and different levels of chlorine. Some things worked and some didn't. What I've found in my tub some else finds differently.
If you like the Eco one - stay with it. Your tub is clean and the enzymes keep the organics from getting bad. As far as chlorine/bleach - if you have dichlor use dichlor for the shock. The formula is put 10x the combined chlorine reading of free chlorine into the tub. So if you have a 0.3 PPM combined chlorine reading then use 3 PPM of free chlorine as shock. I also think you're supposed to wait a few hours before adding chlorine to get the enzymes to work on organics. I usually soak at night
As I said I looked into Eco one and other enzyme products due to my son's skin. I agree, after plunking this much money on a tub, I would try anything to get to use it.
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Okay---First--what is "CYA" and "TDS" mean?
Second----how much house bleach should I use to shock (IF I think I need to shock) ?
Again--a 480 gallon spa. AND---IF I shock then how much dichlor should I put in after? (2 teaspoons--per my above "weekly" routine?)
CYA = cyanuric acid. It is needed in outdoor pools to protect chlorine from the sun which will eat up unprotected chlorine. The problem with CYA is too much will reduce the effectiveness of the chlorine. Dichlor is almost half CYA. TDS = total dissolved solids. Anything you add to your water contributes to TDS. When it gets too high, your water becomes difficult to clear and has a fizzy aspect to it. When either CYA or TDS gets too high, you must drain and fill (including pools).
I add 1 tsp dichlor after use, but I use Nature2 and ozone also and I try to keep my per use dosing at a minimum and as I stated earlier, I like to raise my free chlorine level to 3+ppm weekly (about 1 tlbspn dichlor). Ideally, your after use dose should get your free chlorine level to 2ppm and it will drop from there to close to zero by the time you use the spa again.
You need about 1.25 oz of 6% household bleach to raise the free chlorine level of your 480 gollon spa 1ppm. To get to shock level (7-10ppm) you would need 9-12 oz. If you use household bleach, be sure to use straight bleach...no scented stuff. I use liquid pool shock, essentially double strength household bleach, but I only need half the amount stated.
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Like everything else in life some people love it and some don't. From what I've read, enzymes keep the tub clean from all the organics that are introduced and continue to break them down until they become simple elements.
I use weekly enzymes and find they work on body oils and such but don't do anything too much on detergents. I originally started using enzymes to try to break up the detergents that are introduced from suits.
I've tried different things with my tub - N2, enzymes, clarifiers, MPS, enhanced shock, different ozone times and different levels of chlorine. Some things worked and some didn't. What I've found in my tub some else finds differently.
If you like the Eco one - stay with it. Your tub is clean and the enzymes keep the organics from getting bad. As far as chlorine/bleach - if you have dichlor use dichlor for the shock. The formula is put 10x the combined chlorine reading of free chlorine into the tub. So if you have a 0.3 PPM combined chlorine reading then use 3 PPM of free chlorine as shock. I also think you're supposed to wait a few hours before adding chlorine to get the enzymes to work on organics. I usually soak at night
As I said I looked into Eco one and other enzyme products due to my son's skin. I agree, after plunking this much money on a tub, I would try anything to get to use it.
Thats why there are so many different flavors.
I also use the enzyme additive...which is different than Eco One or The Natural enzyme plans. One thing about Eco One and The Natural....you can go much longer between water changes.
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Appreciate all of the feedback.
When I first bought the tub---the dealer did all that was asked of them in terms of set up and instruction--can't fault them there.
Strange thing is I used the tub often for about 6 weeks and THEN came down with the "rash". Ever since---if I get near the thing--I break out. Have emptied and cleaned twice--to no avail. The water clarity etc has been crystal clear from the get go.
I have super sensitive skin---in the winter I get excema (sp?) and have dry skin. It seems to get worse as I get older---.
I find 90% of the time that on a project like this--I end up knowing more than the so called dealer "experts"
Strange thing is that when I did call the dealer to explain my problem/s----they IMMEDIATELY said to switch to EcoOne from the Leisure Time "program". No hesistation---I wasn't even through with my story.
I use lotion/s etc to treat my dry skin. My hope is that this Eco One program is all it's cracked up to be. I'm not expecting it to clear up my dry skin of course. BUT---IF it just doesn't make things worse---I'll be fine.
THANKS AGAIN !!!
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Thats why there are so many different flavors.
This is true!
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I believe there are also 'additives' to condition and soften your skin that can be poured into the tub, similar to the liquid scents....?
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Add more to the tub? Can anyone make some suggestions on what moisturizer could be also added?
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I think there is a product called Velvet Touch that is supposed to be pretty good, but can't give you first hand info on that.
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Add more to the tub? Can anyone make some suggestions on what moisturizer could be also added?
Don't use bleach to shock if your goal is to raise the chlorine level with the bleach, the same can be acomplished with dichlor. Difference is with dichlor you are not adding the other stuff bleach has in it that is not good for your spa water. Bleach is like 15 % chlorine 85 % other stuff (inert) and it has a very low PH. Sodium-dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate (dichlor) is is only around 1-5 percent inert the balance is made for your spa. MPS (potassium peroxymonosulphate) may be just fine for a shock for you rather than chlorine, if you use it sparingly as it says in the eco one directions and allow it to work and dissapate your next soak may not be affected by it and there for your reaction may be fine. If not because of the low chlorine level required and maintained with the eco one system you shock can be a very low dose of dichlor 1-2 TBLS. Personaly I would play with it and try and use both a MPS and dichlor shock. But I would not shock just because it has been a week or two I would only shock when my combined chlorine reached a level as mentioned or my water was not looking or reacting good to my daily/weekly additions of chlorine. Which depending on your use might be once a month, and then the next week because you had friends over.
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Don't use bleach to shock if your goal is to raise the chlorine level with the bleach, the same can be acomplished with dichlor. Difference is with dichlor you are not adding the other stuff bleach has in it that is not good for your spa water. Bleach is like 15 % chlorine 85 % other stuff (inert) and it has a very low PH.
I don't disagree except for two things....bleach has a high pH (13) and the of the 85% of other ingredients, almost all of it is water.
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I don't disagree except for two things....bleach has a high pH (13) and the of the 85% of other ingredients, almost all of it is water.
Ooops I meant high. Sorry Tone
And someone said water before but on the label it says? Well nothing?