Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: anne on February 17, 2006, 04:25:21 pm
-
What really is the difference between Arctic's "Arctic" and "peak" ozone? they are both CD......different mixing arrangements? why is the "peak" better?
And I'm wondering if this should concern me: the arctic dealer has a 2005 floor model Summit that I have looked at, and am considering, but that is the ONLY spa in there! They seem to have more pool table business than spa business. But by now, shouldn't there be 2006 models in? Im not sure if I should assume from this that their spa business is not that important, or that Arctic has been slow to deliver to them, or ?
My final decision seems to be between the Coleman 471 and the Arctic Summit Legend.......
-
Did you ask the people at the dealership that question, and if so, what did they say? Sound's like a legitmate question. Not sure if 2006's are hitting the floor yet, our Sundance dealer is still pushing floor model 2005's.
-
The Peak Ozone System has a Mixing Chamber, which is important with Corona Discharge Ozonators. Does the 2005 Model have a system with the mixing chamber? If you do not get a answer on the forum, consider contacting the dealer and asking him or call Arctic Spas at 877-777-1577 and ask for customer service. Many Pool Table Dealers are under the gun to blow out their inventory by March, as the Pool Table buying season is almost over. By February most spa dealers are stocked are ready to go. All of our 2005 Floor Model Spas are gone and we are loaded wall to wall with 2006 tubs. Presidents weekend is the unofficial start of the spa buying season, this weekend including Monday is huge. I did have a chance to check out Arctic Spas at the Atlantic City show, a few weeks back and thought they look nice. Go for a wet test, if you can and see which spa you like the best. Goodluck. Dave.
-
I've been selling Arctic Spas for quite a while now (7 years and 4 stores). Most of my inventory is still 2005. The 2006 were avaliable towards the end of Jan.
Michael
-
I've been selling Arctic Spas for quite a while now (7 years and 4 stores). Most of my inventory is still 2005. The 2006 were avaliable towards the end of Jan.
Michael
Wow,
4 stores and most of your inventory is still 2005? Must not have been a good end of year.....
-
I know the local Arctic dealer had a tough '05. They've even brought in the Coleman line to help. This is a branded Arctic store so it really surprised many of us in the industry...
From what I understand, many Manufacturers witnessed a 5-10% decrease in spa purchases in 05.
I suggest pricing your 05's a little more agressively and set up your 06 stage now. Maybe a good early spring event sale of some kind could help...
Steve
-
I'll take a shot at the ozone question....
Peak ozone adds a 24 hour circ pump for ozone only. The Peak ozone CD generator produces the same amount of ozone as Delzone (a CD mfr) recommends for a small swimming pool (0.5g/hour). Yes there is a mixing chamber that is more than a plastic tube and the unit uses an elaborate off gassing chamber that contains a catalyst to help take the ozone back to oxygen.
Arctic ozone runs only when the filtration cycle runs and the CD unit puts out less ozone. I don't have an exact output figure nor has one been printed that I've seen. Not certifying output is typical of the lower end units I believe. Even Delzone, one of the primary mfrs of CD units, doesn't advertise ozone output on their spa CD units.
Ask the dealer what the deal is with not having inventory. Perhaps they can't keep any on the floor. My local dealer gets thin in inventory periodically. Many people don't want to order and wait and so they take what's on the floor which looks really bad considering the size of his showroom.
I would let the wet test be your guide. The Summit Legend is significantly more spa but that's only relevant if it fits you and your needs.
Arctic continues to grow and routinely garners growth awards. It also recently grabbed an award for one of Canada's 50 best managed companies. If you are concerned Arctic as a company won't be around, I doubt you have anything about which to be concerned.
-
Did you ask the people at the dealership that question, and if so, what did they say? Sound's like a legitmate question.
He said that the Arctic ozone reduced "chemical" use to about 50%, and Peak ozone would reduce it 90%. His explanation of how was a little fuzzy.
-
Ask the dealer what the deal is with not having inventory. Perhaps they can't keep any on the floor.
I would if he would call me back! He has till tomorrow, then as much as I like the Arctic cedar and moulded seats, I'm out. :P
-
He said that the Arctic ozone reduced "chemical" use to about 50%, and Peak ozone would reduce it 90%. His explanation of how was a little fuzzy.
Statements like this can get you in trouble. No one can assume sanitizer reduction without knowing your waters needs. Alot of sales pitches are a bit fuzzy. Take them for what they are worth. Arctic makes a fine tub as do several manufacturers, don't get caught up in the hype.
-
Stl-Rex is exactly right. The only difference is that one runs 24-7 and the other only when the filters are running.
Now as for the 2006 models. My dealer still does not have them and my store that I go to, is low in stock. Not to worry, this time last year the same thing happened and then by the end of February, it was full again.
Anne, some of your comments truouble me. I think that you need to understand that purchasing a hot tub should be based on time and research. You seem to have your tubs down to two choices, however, have you wet tested them both?
Secondly, you suggest that you are giving a dealer until the end of the day to call you back or you are out. The problem with this is that, first you are not the only potential buyer at this store. If you want the product bad enough, you should stay on top of it, and use their laxydasy approach to your advantage by expressing your dissapointment and decision to go look. Put them under the gun and see what happens.
Secondly I think that if you like something, buy it. Hot tubs are a luxury, not a necessity. So think of it like buying a luxury car for yourself. You have always wanted a BMW convertabile and finally can treat yourself to it. The sales guy says he will call you back and he doesnt. So you say, he has to the end of the day to call or else im out. So instead you go and purchase a chevrolet cavalier convertablie just because the dealer there called you back.
BOTTOM LINE IS DO NOT SETTLE. IF THE ARCTIC TUB IS WHAT YOU WANT, THEN GO IN AND BUY IT. IF COLEMAN IS WHAT YOU WANT, THEN GO IN AND BUY IT.
Its your money and your decision
-
Steve-
Actually my 2005 was up over 45% over 2004. We ran out of stock, had to order spas all there was for me to order were 2005, since the 06's weren't ready.
Michael
-
Anne, some of your comments truouble me. I think that you need to understand that purchasing a hot tub should be based on time and research. You seem to have your tubs down to two choices, however, have you wet tested them both?
Secondly, you suggest that you are giving a dealer until the end of the day to call you back or you are out. The problem with this is that, first you are not the only potential buyer at this store. If you want the product bad enough, you should stay on top of it, and use their laxydasy approach to your advantage by expressing your dissapointment and decision to go look. Put them under the gun and see what happens.
BOTTOM LINE IS DO NOT SETTLE. IF THE ARCTIC TUB IS WHAT YOU WANT, THEN GO IN AND BUY IT. IF COLEMAN IS WHAT YOU WANT, THEN GO IN AND BUY IT.
Its your money and your decision
I understand your concerns. Actually, I have wet tested them both, the Arctic 2x, and though I like them for different reasons, I dont know which is my favorite yet. I'm tempted to give up on the Arctic tub if the dealer does not get back to me since he knows who I am, and I've waited 2 full days for a return phone call, to ask some final pricing questions. What will it be like when I have a problem with the tub? I may be reading too much into it, but it concerns me. Its not so much about settling for something secondary, as it is basing my purchase on not only the tub but on dealer support. Maybe I'm being to hard on him, maybe he did not get my messages......that is why I'll stop by both places again to wet test one more time!
-
dealer support is of paramount importance. you need to understand that a sales guy and service guy are two very different areas.
I can understand you frustration, however, I would hate to see you make a decision based on a non returned call.
You are right though, perhaps like I said earlier, you should try and use this situation to your advantage.
-
Maybe the sales guys shoud understand that the first impression of the whole dealership is via what the customer sees when the first visit the shop.
A shop may have a top notch service unit, but the spa shopper isn't going to know that.
What Anne knows is that a dealer hasn't returned her calls in several days. If I was her, I'd be equally wary of the business.
That assessment may be grounded, or it may not be, but that's the impression that's being given.
-
He said that the Arctic ozone reduced "chemical" use to about 50%, and Peak ozone would reduce it 90%. His explanation of how was a little fuzzy.
That is 100% salesmanship, telling you what he thinks you want to hear. If you tried to reduce your chemical use that much you'd have issues. Keep in mind that I'm one of the bigger proponents of ozone on this board but it's knucklehead comments like that that make people wonder if ozone works well or is just another item to sell you.
I went to a new spa owners house today who was having a heck of a time with her chemical use so I stopped by. The first thing I saw was her ozone was not working. It turned out to be a crimped hose so it took a few seconds to fix (we also had to add a few tablespoons of chlorine to get her back on track and go over what she should do when the water STARTS to trun on her rather than letting it get too bad). I do in-home orientations and SOOOOO many times I've gone out to people with bad water issues and found that part of teh issue was the ozone not working for this reason or the check valve bad or the ozone simplynot plugged in... You certainly can have water care issues with ozone in operation but whenever the water is nasty it always seems like the ozone had an issue with it never operating from day 1 and needed an installation adjustment. When the ozone is working properly it really does help with your water care but you still have to use a sanitizer and your reduction won't ever be 90% and even 50% seems like a bit of an exaggeration.
-
He said that the Arctic ozone reduced "chemical" use to about 50%, and Peak ozone would reduce it 90%. His explanation of how was a little fuzzy.
I would choose another dealer based on the fact that they are willing to lie to you. Very simply Anne, ask them for proof. They won't be able to supply any... As tech mentioned; it's 100% sales crap!
Michael: congrats on a great year!
Steve
-
What Anne knows is that a dealer hasn't returned her calls in several days. If I was her, I'd be equally wary of the business.
That assessment may be grounded, or it may not be, but that's the impression that's being given.
Well, I'm forgiving the guy this time, as when I went in today he seemed to have never gotten the message (yes, perhaps still a problem, but we all make mistakes) I wet-tested the Summit for the 3rd time, and he was extremely courteous, helpful with questions and not pushy in the least. This dealership has been so much better to work with than a number of others. My concerns about no '06 models being in is pretty much gone based on what people have said here, and the dealer saying that their first ones were coming in for a big show at the beginning of march.
If they can bring the price down a bit into my range, I'm buying an Arctic! Woo hoo! I do like it better than the Coleman- which is actually a great tub- but the massage and the chairs of the Arctic is superior (for me). It'll still be a lot more expensive than the Coleman, but averaged out over 10 years, its worth it. Here's hoping!
Anne
-
I would choose another dealer based on the fact that they are willing to lie to you. Very simply Anne, ask them for proof. They won't be able to supply any... As tech mentioned; it's 100% sales crap!
Michael: congrats on a great year!
Steve
Sorry, I dont know how to quote two different people in one entry.
I took the 50%/90% as pure sales regurgitation, and I'm not going to rely on those numbers. I am assuming that he was just saying what he was told to say, as he could not back up the percentages with a good reason. He seemed like a newer sales person, (I worked with the owner today) so I may be horribly naive, but I'm not sure I want to accuse him of lying, just of not being the best educated about his product. That is why I love coming here!!!!!!
Anne
-
Ozone will reduce your chemicals, but giving a percentage is hard to do.
The Arctic Ozone is just as good as anyother spas ozone that has a mixing chamber with a crona discharge system. The Peak Ozone is much better then the Arctic Ozone. Call the factory to get all the differances. 877-777-1577
-Steve- THANKS!!!!
Michael
-
If they can bring the price down a bit into my range, I'm buying an Arctic! Woo hoo! I do like it better than the Coleman- which is actually a great tub- but the massage and the chairs of the Arctic is superior (for me). It'll still be a lot more expensive than the Coleman, but averaged out over 10 years, its worth it. Here's hoping!
Anne
That's the ticket- Don't settle and don't let a few bucks keep you from getting that one spa that you just gotta have. Believe me, the "sting" of paying more for the one you like best will go away a lot quicker than the sting that will always nag you if you just "settle" for something. The spa is a long term ownership thing, and in a year or two it won't have mattered if you spent a few hundred or even a couple thousand more.
-
It'll still be a lot more expensive than the Coleman, but averaged out over 10 years, its worth it. Here's hoping!
Anne
Oh ohhhhhh....... I think you may of been sold another deception. Averaged out over 10 years what will be worth the extra cost. If he told you the Arctic would be less to operate than the Coleman you have been decieved. If he told you it would last longer than the Coleman you have been decieved. If he told you you would use less chemicals you also have been decieved so I am not sure where your money savings over 10 years is coming from. It may be pennys less a month to operate but it would take 100 years to offset a couple thouand bucks.
Maybe the wood work is worth the extra cost though I do like that. But I have always though they were overpriced.
-
I don't want to put words in Anne's mouth but I think the "averaged out over 10 years, it's worth it" may be related to the feel of the tub - the massage and the chairs being superior for her. If so, then every soak will be better and that sounds like it's worth a lot in the next 10 years. That's why the wet tests.
If two tubs feel exactly the same and your other major criteria (comfort with manufacturer, comfort with dealer, etc. etc.) are the same, you make the decision on the secondary criteria. I wouldn't buy a tub that costs a grand less if it didn't feel as good, just as I wouldn't buy a tub for a grand less if I didn't like the dealer. It's back to having your list of things that one forum member posted months back with all those great comparisons. If you can put a value on them ($ or % perhaps) then it really helps. Just my two cents (plus or minus ten percent). Paul
-
Oh ohhhhhh....... I think you may of been sold another deception. Averaged out over 10 years what will be worth the extra cost. If he told you the Arctic would be less to operate than the Coleman you have been decieved. If he told you it would last longer than the Coleman you have been decieved. If he told you you would use less chemicals you also have been decieved so I am not sure where your money savings over 10 years is coming from. It may be pennys less a month to operate but it would take 100 years to offset a couple thouand bucks.
Maybe the wood work is worth the extra cost though I do like that. But I have always though they were overpriced.
Roger likes to chop at Arctic given the chance. But he doesn't appreciate the jets or jet layout and the power. Self-admittedly, he sits in his without the jets on. Exact opposite of me. There's no reason to drop extra $ if you really don't use what I believe is the strength of the spa which are the jets, especially the bigger jets.
If you like the feel of the tub better and can get more out of it, chances are you'll use it more.
-
I visited my dealer yesterday. He has a few 06's in. I don't have an all inclusive list of changes, but this is what I observed.
Cosmetic
Chrome trimmed jets available.
Control panels moved outside of the spa - still accessible while in the tub but not as convenient as before.
Mold changed to accomodate pop up speakers
Gray stained cedar (I like the natural better)
A slight texture added to the pearlescent surfaces
Performance
All spas have the lips of the Tundra/Frontier that adds about 3" of height to the spa but not net seating depth. It basically helps shield the wind.
New motors powering the pumps. Very smooth and quieter than the previous AO Smith motors. More efficient and I believe torquier. They seem to have a bit more flow than the previous. WOW! (Wonder how I sabatoge my old motors.......LOL)
Modified spa packs and an available touch screen panel that supposedly can do all sorts of stuff I didn't have time to hear about.
It's looking good at Arctic.
-
Ozone will reduce your chemicals, but giving a percentage is hard to do.
Michael
It's not that he gave a %, it's the crazy % that he gave!!!
-
Paul was right- what I meant was, that *if* I can deal with parting with an additional (for example) 1.5K now, that over 10 years that is only $150 a year, or $12/month.....I was not referring to any sales pitch as to the "savings" of an Arctic due to energy use/chemicals/etc. I dont think that I have seen any information that really compares those particular details brand to brand, and I'm hoping/assuming that with any of these "good" brands, my costs of use month to month will be comparable.
Anne
-
I dont think that I have seen any information that really compares those particular details brand to brand, and I'm hoping/assuming that with any of these "good" brands, my costs of use month to month will be comparable.
Anne
There is no such comparison. And you are also correct on the cost per month of operation. Pretty similar as long as you stay away from the low end uninsulated stuff.
-
There are two different independent energy studies. You can download them from Arctic Spas web site.
Michael
-
Roger likes to chop at Arctic given the chance. But he doesn't appreciate the jets or jet layout and the power. Self-admittedly, he sits in his without the jets on. Exact opposite of me. There's no reason to drop extra $ if you really don't use what I believe is the strength of the spa which are the jets, especially the bigger jets.
If you like the feel of the tub better and can get more out of it, chances are you'll use it more.
She still hasn't told us why it will pay for itself in 10 years so you making an assumption is probaly the wrong approach. I hope she wasn't decieved like alot are when they purchase Arctic. There are several brands with big jets and big power, not just Arctic. I did not say she was decieved I said I hope she wasn't, maybe you should re-read.
Rex I don't know why you keep thinking I am so against Arctic, I am not. They are a fine tub as good as a bunch of others out there. Just not in my top ten. To pricey for what you get and to noisy, and I don't personaly like confined seating. But with some strong atributes to the good also, like there wood work.
Please don't put words in my mouth.
-
There are two different independent energy studies. You can download them from Arctic Spas web site.
Michael
Both meaninless with a bunch of holes. Non real world test's. An advertising ploy for the manufacturers using them. I see the one as the compitition winning by a significant margin. And I hate Hot Springs. Both test compare apples to oranges, when the test was looking for apples, guess what, the oranges lost.
-
i to am waiting for the 06 model they cant even tell me exactly what the new changes are going to be they apear to have a unique approach to their design however if they can't provide then i will have to choose another tub ::)
-
She still hasn't told us why it will pay for itself in 10 years so you making an assumption is probaly the wrong approach. I hope she wasn't decieved like alot are when they purchase Arctic. There are several brands with big jets and big power, not just Arctic. I did not say she was decieved I said I hope she wasn't, maybe you should re-read.
Rex I don't know why you keep thinking I am so against Arctic, I am not. They are a fine tub as good as a bunch of others out there. Just not in my top ten. To pricey for what you get and to noisy, and I don't personaly like confined seating. But with some strong atributes to the good also, like there wood work.
Please don't put words in my mouth.
Roger,
She clearly responded that it was cost rationalization. Spread the extra initial investment $ over 10 years and it doesn't look so bad.
I have yet to find a mfr with the large jets that are in the Arctic spa. In fact I haven't seen any as large or felt any that are as effective. Nothing was close and it was a substantially different feel from other spinners.
I can understand the seating comment. The Tundra, while defined, is not as sculpted as some in their line. But again, it's the flatness of the seat and the fact they are a bit more upright that was appealing. It caused less float.
For what you get, I don't see Arctic as overly expensive. At least you have the option to get three pumps and each main seat fully populated with jets which substantially kicks up the performance. No other brand of which I am aware offers you flexibility in equipping whichever model you like best like Arctic does. Low on dough, but like the Tundra layout - get a Signature with fewer jets and just two pumps. Other's top of line spas either still only have two pumps and jets/diverter limitations or they have three pumps but are substantially more expensive (Maxxus, D1 Bay series). I know you're mind is made up, but I felt another response was warranted for those whose minds might not be.
-
Roger,
She clearly responded that it was cost rationalization. Spread the extra initial investment $ over 10 years and it doesn't look so bad.
.
That is true, it was just a rationalization. I did not say "it would pay for itself" I said "it would be worth it" meaning that over time I can rationalize the extra cost because of the superior massage.
It kinda cracks me up (no offense intended) how passionate- positively and negatively- people respond to Arctic. It almost seems like a visceral reflex.... I say "Arctic" and I can almost hear groans, sighs and clenched stomachs all over the country, and up yonder in that northern country. See- watch this....
ARCTIC!!!!!
ARCTIC!!!!!
AAARRRCCCTTTIIICCC!!!!!!
hehehe...... ;D
But dont worry- i haven't chosen a tub yet, so I have not yet gone to the dark side.
-
You are correct, my mind is made up to these facts. Those who own Arctic are convinced they are sending power back to the grid (an overstatement) but they are happy with there purchases which is a good thing and all that's important to them. Some of us don't feel as highly towords the brand and are extremly chastised for it. But because of this attitiude about Arctic we are branded as non conformist, unknowing fools. When simply stated the brand in my opinion and a majority of techs and so called in the know people in my area say they are nothing more than an overpriced OK tub. Which is fine there are several of them out there.
You are allowed your opinion towords them and I am allowed mine. This thread almost started out with a lie from an Arctic salesman. Which would not be the first time. I just wanted to make sure Anne knew this type of salesmanship is standerd for this particular brand and a few others.
-
Tman, your thoughts are dinasour now. You are fighting a battle that has been fought to many times here.
I would like to respond to you by first saying that this email did not start out like you suggest. You just looked for the opportunity to slam arctic. Good for you, your point has been taken. I do own an arctic, and I am offended that you classified all owners under the same umbrella.
We all dont feel that we are putting power back in the grid as you put it. Arctic is an energy efficient product which is no different than any other tub on the market at this price range.
You can say all you want about the product, but the bottom line is that they make a competitive product and a great product that is now competing with 20 + year companies. Arctic is still one of the new kids on the block, just under a decade now in buisness. It is one of Canadas fastest growing buisnesses, and has recieved many awards.
Anne answered your question three times in the post before you stated not to put words in her mouth. With that said, you look like the typical Arctic spas antagonists. Your opinions are respected, but you are taking it too far. Read the posts and keep informed before you just add you negative replies.
Lets be honest here, arctic has a reputation of sales people that are like used car sales men. They mixed up sales to break into an established market. I dont think that they misinform others however, they just go into great detail on items that make their product look superior. They go into detail on their covers, their forever floors and thier new jets, and shells.
I dont care what tub you own nor do I care if you sell a particular brand. The only time it would matter to me, is if I was looking at that brand.
Lets try to stop over generalizing when it comes to arctic. First you need to stop saying their sales pitch. I tested Jaccuzzi, sundance, hotspring, hydro pool, cal spa, catlin, beachcomber, and coleman.
Every single dealer, tried to prove how their product was superior. No different then arctic. If you think this is not right then quite frankly you are a fool.
Hot tub market is a competitive industry, and any dealership will sell their product as best as they can, by agressive buy on the spot deals, explaining the advantages of thier tubs. I would never buy from a dealer that spent more time complaining about another company. What it does start to look like is that you are scared of the competition when this occurs. It would make me curious and need to go and check them out.
You dont have to like the tub or the company, and we encourage you to add your two cents, but you dont need to add the same thoughts several times in one post in an attempt to drive your thoughts home.
About every six months, I find the need to post a long message of frustration to people like you that carry on about arctic. The post started out with "what really is the difference between arctic ozone systems"
You waited for the post about the % to chime in and attack. You did not know the answer to her question and jumped in and changed the hole thread to a bitch about arctic quality and sales. Shame on you.
Now instead of this being a post for people with knowledge about this answer, you have caused this to be a typical arctic post that will inevitably go to beating a dead horse. Mission accomplished I guess!!!!
-
oh yeah and you argue that arctic studies are byas. Well how about your last post.
You suggest that all arctic owners are misinformed and believe that they are saving energy. Blanket statement.
Then you intelligently add that majority of owners and 'people in the know' suggest that it is an 'ok' tub.
you are one small man, I dont know how many people you know, but I would hardly classify you knowledge of this product to be valid. You just generalized and misinformed consumers with you lack of knowledge about this product.
So how does this differ from what you were complaining about, how arcitc misinforms?????
Hello pot, its kettle.
This is not a personal attack, I just dont think that it is right that happy consumers need to put up with this. You check the posts and I challenge you to find one post with a negative message from owners alike. I have never read an arctic owner suggest that their tub was more energy efficient. I said owner, not an idiot sales guy acting like a goof in here.
Bottom line here in Ontario Canada during the coldest two months this year. My tub was 16.00 canadian higher than last year. This includes a hydro increase and the addition of my new tub. That is great, however, any tub I spent this kind of money on would have been the same or withing a few cents.
PLEASE NO MORE SLAMMING THE PRODUCT WITH OVERGENERALIZATIONS AND YOUR ASSUMPTIONS WITH FACTS THAT YOU JUST MAKE UP
-
That is true, it was just a rationalization. I did not say "it would pay for itself" I said "it would be worth it" meaning that over time I can rationalize the extra cost because of the superior massage.
It kinda cracks me up (no offense intended) how passionate- positively and negatively- people respond to Arctic. It almost seems like a visceral reflex.... I say "Arctic" and I can almost hear groans, sighs and clenched stomachs all over the country, and up yonder in that northern country. See- watch this....
ARCTIC!!!!!
ARCTIC!!!!!
AAARRRCCCTTTIIICCC!!!!!!
hehehe...... ;D
But dont worry- i haven't chosen a tub yet, so I have not yet gone to the dark side.
Careful here anne. Lots of salesmen try to lessen the blow of the price by amortimizing it. (Car salesmen and replacement window salesmen are notorious for this..."How much a month do you want to spend?" I cringe when they do this.
Neogtiate price not terms. Although thinking about the cost per year is an interesting aspect, don't lull yourself into it and always come back to the bottom line. How much is this costing me total. Today. In real dollars. And if you are financing it, how much with interest and for how long?
-
Careful here anne. Lots of salesmen try to lessen the blow of the price by amortimizing it. (Car salesmen and replacement window salesmen are notorious for this..."How much a month do you want to spend?" I cringe when they do this.
Neogtiate price not terms. Although thinking about the cost per year is an interesting aspect, don't lull yourself into it and always come back to the bottom line. How much is this costing me total. Today. In real dollars. And if you are financing it, how much with interest and for how long?
Actually, the dealer just gave me a number, and I did the rationalizing on my own. He has not yet responded to my counter offer, however. I will not finance- I will only buy what I can afford based what I have in my bank account, so it may come down to NO tub this year rather than settling for something secondary, and then try again later. :-/
There are two sales people at the is establishment: the owner who has been tremendously low-key and never pushy, and a younger employee who I have seen less of in my last two visits, but reminded me of a lab puppy in his exuberant sales pitch the first day. It was exhausting, but at least they have both had the sense not to keep that up.
Since this dealer does not seem to be in a hurry to get back to me, I'll take my time, too. I may look at another '05 HS, may drive a little farther to see the Jacuzzi or Sundance dealers, but they are almost an hour away- not ideal.
-
They seem to have more pool table business than spa business. But by now, shouldn't there be 2006 models in? Im not sure if I should assume from this that their spa business is not that important, or that Arctic has been slow to deliver to them, or ?
It took about 8 weeks to get my tub...ordered in Sept, delivered in Nov.
The dealer had about 7 in the show room....6 were sold, and waiting for customer's electric and pad to deliver, the last was a Klondiker, which from what I can tell is a slow mover.....there are two "partner" delaers in town....one just sells spas, the other "parent" dealer is a spa/pool place...and they had about 8 or 10 tubs total stock between them...the salesman said, "you can choose from these, or it will be 8 weeks for manufacture and delivery.... (aside from what was in the show rooms) and the homeshow was on the upcoming weekend, so they dissappeared in short order...appears Arctic dealers are moving tubs as fast as the factory can make them, so it doesn't seem like a surprise that they don't have many in the showroom.
-
Maybe the wood work is worth the extra cost though I do like that. But I have always though they were overpriced.
FWIW, I was into my Arctic for somewhere around 1500-2000 cdn less than the closest Coleman model.
-
Statements like this can get you in trouble. No one can assume sanitizer reduction without knowing your waters needs. Alot of sales pitches are a bit fuzzy. Take them for what they are worth. Arctic makes a fine tub as do several manufacturers, don't get caught up in the hype.
Alright I shall digress as I have made many Arctic owners angry. Because no one ever wants to admit there deal isn't the best, I am the same way.
But I shall also quote myself here and make sure you all understand what I responded to. A lousy salesman selling one simple thing a LIE!!!! Kinda puts visions of a plaid jacket with watches attatched to the inside in my head. Can't believe it doesn't yours!!!
There ya have it alot of anger over this??? Kinda makes ya wonder. I shall keep my opinion of the brand vocal as long as a potential customer has been lied to to make a sale. I refuse to stoop to that level. And no I don't sell tubs. I just fix them!!!
-
Both meaninless with a bunch of holes. Non real world test's. An advertising ploy for the manufacturers using them. I see the one as the compitition winning by a significant margin. And I hate Hot Springs. Both test compare apples to oranges, when the test was looking for apples, guess what, the oranges lost.
Not "real world" perhaps, but one of those tests was a scientific study performed by The Alberta Research Council, a respected third-party government testing agency.
Roger (tman122) is not a dealer and has no particular axe to grind; he is mechanically minded and knowledgeable about spas. He doesn't particularly dislike Arctic Spas (he has even told me, "I do like the Arctic concept as an option to the other brands in this area.") but works hard to keep the spa industry honest and doesn't pull any punches!
Interested readers are invited to download the studies and examine them carefully so they can form their own conclusions. I respectfully suggest that any further discussion be taken off-list (refer to "Beating a Dead Horse") or moved to a new thread.
-
Thank you greybeard for putting a perspective on this that may clear my opinion up for a few folks.
And like I have said, my design is better ;D
Oh and Bosco...I'm not small at all, and far from misinformend. I can also throw insults but will refraim.
-
dont 'refraim' you seem vocal. Listen, I am not calling you small. Im just saying, I think that it is pretty unfair for satisfied supporters of this forum that own arctic spas to always have to deal with this. You put us into a bracket that makes me feel like I purchased a looney spa.
No insults intended, just frustration coming through. I just dont understand how a question about the different ozone types for an arctic can lead into the energy efficient and poor sales approach debate all the time.
Im sorry if you dont see why I am getting frustrated, but, just for once, I would love to see an arctic post go somewhere other than beating a dead horse.
-
Well we have to deal with this partially because there were lunatics representing themselves as Arctic dealers or company reps posting idiotic statements back in 2004. Unfortunately, because we own we have the "dick by association" rule to contend with.
I also think many who jump to criticize never have sat in a Tundra. They have no clue what the jets feel like or how comfortable it sits. They may not use their own spas for true muscle therapy as I do. They assume it's the same-old same old and it is not. The large jets are not in any other tub and they feel like no other that I wet-tested and I wet-tested the "majors" who are represented here. Nobody came close to the inverted triangle massage seat of the Tundra for hitting the neck/traps/shoulders area and that is really what sold me.
I have my spa and don't have a true reason to be here. But given the BS that is now thrown at Arctic I feel compelled to give positive feedback about the brand based on my experience. Plus it's nice to help other folks out regardless of the brand they are considering or own.
-
I apoligize for grouping you guys into the same group as some doh head sales staff that has to lie to a potential consumer for a sale. It was wrong of me, and not my intention for you to read it that way.
It gets tiresome to see these sales practices.
You guys forgot 3 houses down from me is a Tundra, a fine tub which I have soaked in, drank to much in and tore apart for an inspection and critisism asked from me by my neighbor. He acualy asked me to give his, I think 3-4 year old tub an inspection and evaluation. I actualy offer this as a service to paying customers also. It's a winter thing that you southerners won't understand. For him it was free on a saturday afternoon and we had bud lights. The purpose of this evaluation is to set up a plan of action for a particular customer if there is a problem in sub 0 weather with there tub. I actualy write it down (well take notes and type it) and put it in a folder for referance down the road. It tells them the first to the last thing that needs to be done to protect there tub from damage. Of course my phone number is included along with normal hours and rates ;D I call it an insurace policy at no cost untill you use it. Well I get 50 bucks to evaluate, then no cost. My point is I know these tubs well and have never slammed the product, just the decietfull way they are sold. We do not have an Arctic dealer here in Northern Minnesota but may have some day and it may even be me, who knows. But that will not change my perspective on the sales practices that get posted from potential customers here and on other forums. And if your listening Arctic I do not need your sales training. ;) Just hand me your cost sheet and keep me up to date on your component choices.
Oh and I forgot, Bill, leave this thread here please and let it die naturaly, thanks bud.
Group Hug.........NOT!!!!
-
I should know better but I gotta wade in, only because I find the constant anti-Arctic whining tiresome myself. Every time I've read it I wanted to post that in my area it is the Hotspring dealer that is the slimey dork. After a little chastising by people on this forum for saying not so nice things about a Hotspring dealer I haven't mentioned it. Now I feel almost compelled to mention it every time a thread will go like this.
But maybe this is a reverse psychology ploy and an interesting marketing action... maybe Tman is going to be an Arctic dealer and he's getting people wanting to go in and see what their Arctic salespeople are like. Creates traffic in the store... Hmmm. Could work. Paul
-
...some doh head sales staff that has to lie to a potential consumer for a sale.... I know these tubs well and have never slammed the product, just the decietfull way they are sold. And if your listening Arctic I do not need your sales training. ;)
C'mon, you know we're listening! :D
With all due respect, I really wish you could take our factory sales training. That way, you would know exactly what our training involves, exactly what we want sales staff to say and not to say, and would understand that what you call "deceitful" methods are not something we endorse.
It gets tiresome to see these sales practices....
It gets a little tiresome for us, too, but for different reasons. I follow up (off list) on every post about our sale practices, good or bad, asking for the date of their visit, the name of the specific store and the sales person involved. It's amazing how often the complainer fails to respond, withdraws from the forum, suddenly develops amnesia, or turns out not to be a legitimate customer (a competing dealer, for example). Occasionally it's just someone repeating something they heard or read but have not personally seen.
And on this point, Roger, if you have personally seen "these sales practices" please contact me off-list.
-
good for you grey beard!!!
Cant argue with that
-
good for you grey beard!!!
Cant argue with that
A top notch representative for the Arctic company. As always a respected proffesional.
I may take you up on that sales training even though it goes against my advertised plan. ;D
Remember I am not it this for the money. Customer happieness is what it is all about. Sometimes I ask for food from my customers. :o
-
Sometimes I ask for food from my customers. :o
"Will work for cookies" ;D