Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: sagacious on February 22, 2006, 12:48:59 am
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Envoy is 2005 floor model (never filled) for $7800
Californian 2006 model for $8400
I wet tested both and now is decision time....
Please help :)
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An Envoy for $600.00 less than a Californian is a great deal.
What comes with each. Equal accessories? How about the dealers? ;)
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I was quoted $7500 for an '05 Californian- never filled, but not an '06. Seems like a big difference for 1 year. Price included all the standard stull- lifter, delivery....
Anne
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Yes, both tubs are equally equipped, with all standard goodies, backed by reputable dealers.
So, the question is: which tub is better?
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So, the question is: which tub is better?
Well, I'll be happy to answer your question......they are both top of the line manufacturers, you can't go wrong with either one. D-1 has some very nice features as does HotSpring. I know which one I'd invest my money in but it's your money that's on the line so go with the one that provides the most long-term value for your particular needs.
Good luck and envoy whichever one you choose. :)
Terminator
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Thx a lot Terminator but what is your suggestion? ;)
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that's what I've enjoyed about reading Term's posts.....he sells one brand, but gives credit where it's due, regardless....
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What did you think of the tubs after testing them?
They look similliar in features and size, although the HS holds about 100 more galllons of water and about 375 sq ft of filters while the D1 has 350 gallons and 2 x 75 sq feet of filtration.
The HS has 2 2hp pumps (one is 2 speed)
The D1 has 2 4 HP pumps.
How did you like the therapy on each?
I like the foot well on the D1.
These tubs both have a decent rep. I'd go for the one that feels best on your butt. (Assuming each dealer has checked out ok?)
However, I was unsure of D1's claim of "# Patented design achieves zero percent off-gassing
# The only system that ozonates spa water while in use"
what type of Ozinator are they using? I was under the impression that my Freshwater Ozinator worked 24 x 7. What's the deal here?
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Thx a lot Terminator but what is your suggestion? ;)
The answer is in my original post. Read it again carefully. I do envoy your position of getting to choose between these two fine products. And, I never make typos. ;)
Terminator
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I wet tested both those recently, and here are a few things I noted that may be worth paying attention to when you sit in them again (how else to choose?) These are personal opinions, and should only be taken as such:
Californian:
1)thigh jets on the lounger more irritating than therapeutic
2)Adjustable head rest is a big plus, but only one seat has it
3)I found the diverter knobs and air knobs hard to move when the jets were on full- may have just been that unit.
4)seats were too "u" shaped, so made me feel like slouching.
5)jets did not hit my lumbosacral area well enough
6)jets in the smaller corner seat felt a little itchy
7)nice variety of jet arrangements and seat shapes to accomodate height and preferences
Envoy
1)my favorite layout of lounger, seat arrangements, foot massage
2) I like that the waterfall is not in back of a seat or in front of a lounger! (dont remember where it was on the D1)
3)not personally crazy about the moto massage. But it feels completely different than the D1, so you just have to try both
4)Sort of a pain that the controls are only next to the lounger.
check out jsimo7's "10 month review"
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that's what I've enjoyed about reading Term's posts.....he sells one brand, but gives credit where it's due, regardless....
HUH?? just kidding ;D
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I envoy Term's post too. He never makes claims of an epic proportions, even though he is a bit jetsetter, he always gives the image of being more of a beachcomber. I wish we had more dealers like him here, downeast. During our cold artic winters, his grandee personality would be a welcome change.
Anyhow, I think I'v mssion the point and we wouldn't Haven that. Now would we?
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What did you think of the tubs after testing them?
They look similliar in features and size, although the HS holds about 100 more galllons of water and about 375 sq ft of filters while the D1 has 350 gallons and 2 x 75 sq feet of filtration.
The HS has 2 2hp pumps (one is 2 speed)
The D1 has 2 4 HP pumps.
How did you like the therapy on each?
I like the foot well on the D1.
Drewstar,
Always be careful reading or quoting Horsepower on spa literature (or from salesmen). Some manufacturers quote Brake Horsepower only which is deceptive by itself while others quote continuous horsepower or both. D1 is strattling the line a bit here as they show both but don't really explain it that well but it's still better than many do (the dreaded C@! Spas website still quotes BHP only).
From the D1 website: "2 x 4.0/(2.5) HP"
That means they are both 2.5 continuous HP pumps (otherwise known as 4.0 BHP when marketing terms are used).
The Hot Springs site quotes: "2.0 HP Continuous Duty, 3.9 HP Breakdown Torque"
We need an industry watch Dog to straighten this out. Where is McGruff when you need him?
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Drewstar,
Always be careful reading or quoting Horsepower on spa literature (or from salesmen). Some manufacturers quote Brake Horsepower only which is deceptive by itself while others quote continuous horsepower or both. D1 is strattling the line a bit here as they show both but don't really explain it that well but it's still better than many do (the dreaded C@! Spas website still quotes BHP only).
From the D1 website: "2 x 4.0/(2.5) HP"
That means they are both 2.5 continuous HP pumps (otherwise known as 4.0 BHP when marketing terms are used).
The Hot Springs site quotes: "2.0 HP Continuous Duty, 3.9 HP Breakdown Torque"
We need an industry watch Dog to straighten this out. Where is McGruff when you need him?
Thanks Spatech. I've read quite a bit about Brake and Continous hp here and other places. And sure enough, in haste, I forget all about it and post mi\sleading data. Glad your here!
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Thanks Spatech. I've read quite a bit about Brake and Continous hp here and other places. And sure enough, in haste, I forget all about it and post mi\sleading data. Glad your here!
Consider that a stern warning with no privileges withheld.
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One thing Hot Spring includes that D1 doesn't (unless things have changed) is subpanel with GFCI breakers.
Hot Spring ozone is 24/7.
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One thing Hot Spring includes that D1 doesn't (unless things have changed) is subpanel with GFCI breakers.
Hot Spring ozone is 24/7.
Well D1 Claims their system is the only one that "Produces ozone while in use".
WTF? Any D1 Dealer care to clarify that?
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Yes most ozone system work only during filter cycles
when you turn on you pumps (jet button) in most cases
the ozone shut off. and then turns on again after the pumps are turned off. Some spa packs have delays some do not. In D-1 case the ozone system is designed
to run 24/7 wether the pumps on on or off it make no difference
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Not to belabor the point, I am not disagreeing whether D1 produces ozone while jets are on. I differ with the claim that it is an exclusive. That is simply untrue. See Hot Spring. See Caldera.
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I think we could have an entire thread about the ozone issue. Let me just throw in these pearls of wisdom (or small balls of turd, depending on your opinion of them).
I think we all agree ozone kills bacteria, and less bacteria means cleaner water, right?
So whats so bad about ozone? Well it depends who you ask, but here is some info:
Ozone can be an irritant to some peoples skin, and there is debate as to weather breathing ozone has any negative health risks associated with it. Before everybody jumps on my head about this, please finish reading this post.
A major air cleaner manufacturer with a name like Orwank attacked their biggest competitor (Sharper cutsyouage) because there air cleaner puts out ozone (cringe). Rather than stop making this air cleaner, they added on a doohickey that converts the ozone coming out of the machine to oxygen, now enabling them to claim there air cleaner generates oxygen! Seems that if you take ozone (O3), and strip off one little molecule, you get oxygen (O2).
Early spa ozone generators, and some improperly installed after market generators slapped onto some spas injected ozone directly into the main body of spa water. Many spa system control manufacturers started to incorporate logic into the controllers that shut off the ozone generator power whenever the jets were activiated. The assumption is that if the jets were turned on manually, it meant a bather must be in the spa, and so the ozone would be disabled. Since water flow is needed to induce ozone gas into the spa, the filter cycle, or a call for heat was the logical time to allow the ozone generator to run. The problem with ozone is, even though it is a good sanitizer, it depletes rapidly. As soon as the ozone shuts off, the residual ozone quickly goes away. That's why you still need some residual level of sanitization in the spa water.
That brings me to modern spa design. Several manufacturers have found that if the ozone is not injected directly into the main body of water, but instead is injected into the water in the plumbing, and allowed to mix with this water a bit before it exits into the bathing area, it will still sanitize the water, but will also start converting to oxygen, greatly reducing the amount of ozone that might otherwise come into contact with a bather. A couple of manufacturers I wotk on actually run a long pipe around the shell of the spa, so the ozone water mixture has to make a round trip around the spa before it exits into the main body of spa water. Some manufacturers are even using special ozone mixing chambers to get similar effects. Bottom line is each manufacturer will treat ozone systems a little(or lot) differant.